There are a lot of different ways to build Eve: Spike, DPS, Tank. Their roles are fairly obvious, and I'll just be outlining how I usually build them. Do take note that the Spike build is generally outdated, I haven't seen any decent Eve use it in forever.
Masteries 9/0/21 (Spike) 1/16/13 (Jungle) -Smite, HP, Buffs, Def Mastery (Usually SoS over Dodge, unless you run Dodge Seals) 21/0/9 (DPS)
Obviously if you aren't jungling, you don't need Smite and Def Mastery, so respec accordingly. If you're playing Spike, jungling is really inefficient so don't bother.
Runes APen/AD Marks APen/AD Quints Armor Seals MR Glyphs
Summoner Spells Ghost/Smite for Jungling Flash/Exhaust + Ignite for Ganking
Skills Basically Q gives a lot more sustained damage, while E is spiky. When to level W is usually due to preference. Open Q if you want to jungle, W otherwise.
R>E>W>Q
Itams
Open Cloth + 5 Pots if you want to jungle. Boots + 3 Pots if you want to gank. Long Sword + Pot if you want to start in lane for a bit before ganking.
Some combination of GB/Atmas/Cleaver/BT/IE afterwards.
Playstyle
Jungle Routes: 1. Small Golem -> Wolf -> Wraith -> BP -> Blue 2. Blue -> Everything (Ask for help here, unless you went ASPD Marks and Flat HP Quints or something)
Watch the lanes, find openings, and gank accordingly. Always check the CS of the other jungler, since counter jungling with Eve is incredibly easy.
Around early mid-game, you should ask your teammates for a lane if one isn't available so you can catch up on levels, since you WILL be underlevelled in almost all cases.
Late game, you want to accomplish the following:
[Spike] Be able to spike for at least 1.5k hp. This is mostly from Ravage and 2 Lich Procs, with a few autos/Q's.
I haven't tried Evelynn ever. I always got a bad impression from a lot of people who talk down about it.
There was this one game where I was playing carelessly and I got shutdown by the roaming gank eve. Just made me so mad that it wasn't funny (Even though I 3 hitted her as MF in that game).
I don't even know her 3rd skill yet. I just remember one of them is invisible, the other is spike.
Will have fun playing her on my smurf if I get the chance.
I've thought about the 2 HoG build but it seems really pointless on me. Your jungle is slow, and your ganks are fairly weak. Later on instead of you and the other carry destroying each other, the other carry just destroys you instead. HoG into Sunfire on Tank Eve sounds reasonable, but even Lilac ran jungle Razors into Sunfire.
The big thing personally with the HoG is that it gave her the tankiness to be able to dive towers (which at level 6 with ult let her run down a lot of people) but, as you said, especially if you run the first HoG then your jungle speed is asinine. I wonder if Razor -> HoG -> tanky items is a decent compromise though.
Tank evelynn is cool choice, not only because of her ulti but also she has natural taunt which only the best may sometimes resist. Also her taunt is so good, not only it forces every person to attack you but also they buy oracle just to be able to focus you over squishies! (OMG ITS EVE GO GET HER, CHASE CHASE CHASE CHASEEE)
On November 09 2010 00:01 TacToSs wrote: How come you don't suggest magic pen marks? Eve's skills do magic damage right so why mainly AS and arm pen?
Because she's such a gimped character she needs every advantage to even be able to jungle competently. She already can't kill blue by herself even with ArPen and HP quints, if you turned those into movespeed or something you're just making it harder and harder for her. Also her damage sucks as a whole anyways, so there's no point in trying to make it slightly less shitty. Her best roles are definitely as a counter-jungler and early-game gank machine before she drops completely off the map at level 13ish
I'd definitely advocate a Razor (even a Wiggle's Lantern) on Eve as a first item. Jungle Eve is the best counter jungle and she is garen-teed to be better after her buffs go live. Without a Razor, she is very gimped at jungling thus she'll start to fall behind quickly in levels compared to a more viable jungle.
Tank Eve is honestly the only applicable way to play Eve in Ranked (read: srs) games. Her DPS is laughable. Spike barely tickles until you have sufficient AP but as Tank, you can make full use of your stealth stun, sometimes grabbing your team an easy gank. However, you don't want to be trading your life for the gank.
My build for Counter-Jungle Eve is open Cloth + 2 hp pots + ward. Place ward at either their Golem or Lizard (usually the latter). Build Madreds => Boots => Wiggles's => Sunfire stack. Toss in a Banshee's for MR if needed but typically, pick your fights and don't unstealth in a situation where you can get burst down by casters. Boots I learned towards Merc Treads.
I can see the potential of 1-2 HoGs before Sunfires. I mean if someone like Lilac does it, it's gold in my book.
Depending on how confident and efficient you become with Eve (I personally am not yet), you may want to consider Mejai's after Wiggle's (before HP stacking) and Sorc Boots. If you're proficient, you can grab some free Mejai charges for every gank, building you up into a solid AP burst caster late game. Sorc Boots work both with her spells as well as the Sunfire Capes you're building later on.
One more thing. At early levels, obviously before you have a Razor made, use your Smite wisely. Most obviously is to steal a buff from the enemy jungler by Smite stealing. Otherwise, save your smites for the Small Golem camp (do your side AND the enemy's). Those two Golems obviously give the biggest bang for your Smite. Most exp, getting you up to level 5 asap.
Jungling terrifies me. I suppose this is because I play Amumu and if he loses Blue it's all over for him and he is so vulnerable to counter jungling.
I have been running Eve very bursty and have found in my low level games that I love nuking the crap out of people once I rush RoA and boots of Mobility. The rest of my build resembles the Spike build, with extra survivability items as necessary. (core is RoA, mobility, lichbane. Still too nervous to work in a mejais even though most games end up being worth it.) I also run Mpen reds, Hp seals and AP glyphs with MS quints.
Now I know this has currently only been working for me either because I play against people who don't get oracles or vision wards as often or early as they should (and by lategame they tend to give up on them entirely), but is there any way to work at least part of my rune setup or boots into a jungling build?
I figure that way I'll stay more relevant as I get better, while still keeping the insane gank and mobility that I love while playing Eve.
(note: my build also seems to work very well even when they do have oracles so long as there is an incredibly strong initiator/tank on the team, malphite for example.)
I think Razor -> HoG is even worse... might as well go all the way and 2x HoG + Gank only, but it'll probably leave you useless for the first few teamfights at the cost of being able to tower dive...? I usually dive fine with Eve anyways, since the Ult heals you if you succeed.
I feel APen or AS gives more DPS early game than MPen. Even if I go AP, APen is still ok to boost Lich damage. For Tank, MPen might be better tho.
Korean players like Tekken God play eve as DPS with d-blade -> boots -> brutalizer -> sheen -> zerkers -> GRB -> Ghostblade, it's really odd but seems effective.
AMG that video is so incredibly helpful...thanks so much! I'm going to fiddle around with some things and see how much I can mess with runes and build and still play her mostly burst.
While it does make it harder for Eve to do what she wants to do, in no way is this the be-all-end-all counter to Evelynn.
As an Evelynn player you should be constantly checking other players to see if they have Oracles or are holding vision wards. Tab does not work unless they're carrying the items around in vision before using them. Also important is the mindset you have for this item. You don't want to think "oh darn, they have Oracles." Instead, you should be thinking "oh good, they wasted 400 gold on that instead of buying something useful."
If someone is a dick to you and you know they've died with at least 3 oracles, simply ask how much they've spent on oracles during the game. I've yet to hear a good response to that situation.
Anyway, it's important to note who has the Oracles. Usually it's a tank and they are usually in front. That means that if you come in from the side or the back the squishies won't see you. And if they are close enough to the tank that they can see and react to you coming at them, then that probably wasn't a situation you should have gone in on anyway. If a squishie has an Oracles then you just need to pick your spots. Just because they can see you doesn't mean that you can't stun them, so if they're distracted or their only good response is to run away then by all means go ahead. Also they still can't see you in bushes, and you can move really fast with ult.
It DOES mean that you can't just go around all willy-nilly in their camp and spy on them. Too bad.
2: Eve goes AP
As Mogwai pointed out earlier, there are some successful Eve builds going AD. This is mainly because of the changes to her Ult. If you didn't know, you get to use Eve's ult as soon as you get it, and you no longer have to wait for someone on your team to get a kill to get another one because it has a cooldown now. This means that pretty much anytime you need it you will have access to her ult, since you also still get to use it again if someone on the other team dies.
AP was the more reliable build because you couldn't rely on having your ult before. It's still a good build, but AD takes better advantage of her skills now. One Bloodrazor plus her level 3 ult will put you at 2 attacks per second.
3:Eve is strictly a ganker.
This is partially true, since her game expands based on her ganking power. Counter-jungling could fall under ganking, as could map control. It all depends on how you categorize it. As such, Evelynn is also a surprisingly good pusher. But it's not because her abilities help her kill creeps quickly. Her gameplay practically forces the enemy to group up which means that lanes will be vulnerable. Also with her ult she can kick down towers at a decent rate. And unless they have Oracles or TF you have an easy getaway.
4: Eve can't lane.
This is mostly true with one exception. Eve can lane with someone who is already good at 2v1. So someone like Mordekaiser, Nasus, Sona, whatever can help you be an effective laner. Of course, those characters probably don't want to help you and would rather be a much higher level, but you're Evelynn so screw them.
Anyway, once you gain a few levels you can leave to go counter-jungle or even jungle if either team doesn't have a jungler. Also if your partner is doing well on harassment or that vampiric scepter Ashe is too aggressive, you can still stun and hurt which either forces them to b or tower hug or you might even get first blood. Just make sure that YOU aren't the one who gets killed first, since two champs focusing you early often doesn't result in pleasant things.
5: Eve is bottom tier
Well, okay. This one is still true despite her buffs adding to her gameplay. The fact is that there are just better champs at what she does and her early game and farming ability is still terrible. Warwick would do better with any of her AD builds. Twitch is better at everything invisible-like with the exception of a tank build. Other AP characters have more burst. You get the idea. But she's not an auto-loss and she's certainly a lot of fun to play. At least for me she is.
Also I think playing Eve helps one become a better player overall. You will learn to check your opponents builds and buffs constantly. You will learn when a good time to engage is and when to wait, and also when to run. Your map awareness should increase too since you need to capitalize on every opportunity to gank. You will learn how to position yourself so the entire team won't be able to focus you easily. These are all important skills to know for practically every character.
I've seen that Brutal opening, but I haven't had a chance to try it out yes so I dunno. I would imagine Malady replaces GRB now though.
Love you too Neo. j/k no one likes you =(
Not sure on the Blue Golem, practice games don't work so it's hard to try. Do you know what runes/masteries hes running?
For late game, you shouldn't be running around like a retard anyways so Oracle isn't a huge problem. Think of Shadow Walk as a free stun on your first hit instead. As you said, most of the time the carries aren't the ones that have, and you should always be going around for them.
I don't like laning Eve because shes does nothing in the lane. Even if she manages to get farm somehow (Sona/Eve vs Bads) inserting almost any other DPS would make better use of that farm.
I was just thinking of going apen marks, flat armor yellows, mrlvl blues and flat hp quints. Should be fine jungling like that and fulfilling the tank role
Hey guys, I was thinking that Manamune would be a good item to get on Eve with her ability to spam Q all day long to get the max damage from it, but I'm not sure if it's viable as an opener since it's pretty expensive and may not be the optimal item choice for her. Maybe just get it later on in the game if the situation allows. if you guys wanna try incorporating it into your Eve play that would be cool ^^
EDIT: so i've been trying out Manamune on Eve early and later and yeah, it doesn't really give that much bang for the buck. It definitely helps but there are better items out there, and if you can afford it you're probably winning anyway =P
that's actually a really interesting idea caldo. she's got mana problems without blue buff as well. so tear might solve that early. only problem is that IIRC you can only proc the +mana twice every 6 seconds, so you wouldn't be getting +4 for every Q. i dunno it's worth considering i suppose
Manamune is terrible, you don't spam your spells nearly enough to make use of it, plus the damage increase is rather measly. MP5/Meditation and possibly a blue pot is enough early game, you can build a catalyst mid-late game if you really want mana.
I don't have Yellow Seals, and I've always jungled ok without them so I haven't bothered. Obviously if you have them, jungling with Eve is really straightforward.
Not sure about specing 21 Offensive tho, unless you're going the Korean Brutalizer build...
So, I've begin seeing a lot of people running Evelynn jungle with revive/smite, and here's a little miniguide to how to do it if you're in doubt, it's pretty easy.
Summoners doesn't matter much, I run 9/11/10 for utility mastery and 2 less damage from creeps. The route is the important part: Wraiths (smite blue) > small golems > DIE to red > revive > Blue golem and the usual route from blue golem. If you open with cloth armor, and get enough hp pots (I buy 1 or 2 after my initial 5), you can clear your whole jungle if a gank opportunity doesn't arive.
So what do you guys think about this aproach to Eve jungling? Anyone tried to play around with it?
Oh we actually had an Eve thread? Haha and here I was thinking about making one. Surprises me that nobody had bumped it even though she suddenly rose in popularity...
About Revive on Eve: I find it horrible. Eve doesn't really need it to jungle, and without a global ult it's just a waste imo.
I jungle Eve really gimmicky: 1/15/14, Ignite/Smite or Ghost/Smite, APen marks, Armor seals, MRes glyphs, 2 exp quints (important!), 1 AD quint. Q W Q, R > E > W > Q. Start at red buff with red elix + 6 health pots. You will level up here, before the solo lanes even reach lvl 2. Gank. Mid, top, bot, their jungler, whatever. Unless your enemies already play super defensively at level 1, just show up to make sure they know how aggressively you gank. You can often score a kill or at the very least you should be able to force the enemy back to base. Keep chugging pots, if your gank was really quick, you can do your wolves and then blue, otherwise start your blue when smite is at about 10 seconds. From there on just jungle normally, but make sure your enemies are scared. Force them to buy vision wards. Know where they place them, you can often abuse a blind spot in their detection. At level 6 you can solo dragon with razor + smite + pots, but usually you should gank and then have your allies help with dragon.
If you can, take the first 1-2 kills for yourself. Don't give those to a carry. The extra money speeds your jungling up a ton and allows you to set up really strong mapcontrol.
Item build: Wriggles, Mercs, HoG, Hexdrinker, Triforce usually. Order and parts of items depending on the game, be flexible. Almost any item is good on Eve in one situation or another. WARDS.
In general, be flexible. In some games I gank 24/7, in other games I farm most of the time. In some games I initiate fights and tank loads of damage. In other games I pick off weak enemies from behind.
On December 25 2010 05:55 TieN.nS) wrote: Here's a video tutorial I saw for that jungle path: ...
He finishes red at 4:40, first gank at 4:50 or so. I think my jungling path, including a gank and waiting for smite to get blue as the second camp, takes less than that. I get wraiths only once in that time obviously, but my +4% exp and the exp from ganking compensates for that at least partially. Not sure how long a normal run without revive takes. I definitely don't think this revive jungle path is good... Sure, I drop 250 gold into a red elix, but I think my aggressive ganking starting at 2:20 totally makes up for that. Even if I don't score a kill (however getting a kill while your elix is still up definitely helps you get that razor).
On January 05 2011 06:13 zulu_nation8 wrote: Razor -> Boots -> Vamp*
Is Vamp vampiric sceptor? What does the * mean?
Probably "situational", seeing how he also wrote "Mejais* ".
And yes, obviously Vampiric Scepter. I personally prefer building it straight into a Wriggle's, but if you want to get a Bloodrazor you might want to skip that. The life steal definitely is good on Eve since you can't really rely on kills/assists for healing while you are jungling, and you don't want to gank at 30% HP.
I prefer Banshee as first defensive item right after Trinity. Spell block too good for a "squishy" dps.
Smite/Ghost, 1/8/21 8 Defensive Tree for SoS
With Wiggles, you should be able to keep your hp at 75%+ at all times. Gank only when you're sure you can get away. Dive only when you're sure you can score a kill/assist. Eve doesn't need much HP. Just play smart, not "brave".
I swear by opening Red Elix, Wriggles + Boots1. Then Sheen and Mercs, but depending on the game I might get another Null Magic Mantle or a HoG before Sheen. Hexdrinker against typical magic damage, Banshees only if I want to counter a certain ability, especially TF's ult and Nidalee's traps. Lately I've been going for Brutalizer->Ghostblade as damage items after Sheen, although Triforce still is a nice item. Sheen definitely is a good item on Eve even if you don't get your Triforce very quickly. Lichbane/straight AP is pretty much the only path I wouldn't go as Eve. Almost everything else makes sense under the right circumstances.
I'm usually spamming wards almost as if I were Janna. Although I seem to do that on a lot of champs lately...
How is hextech gunblade viewed for her? I like to play at least one of two games trying to figure out a hero on my own before I read up on how they are supposed to be played. But I've played a few games with Eve now and as soon as I get hextech my viability just skyrockets. But then again, there could be better items that would have a even greater effect for that ammount of cash. But it was rather hillarious getting a full nuke from Annie only to see my hp bar skyrocket straight up again.
On January 05 2011 07:33 NeoIllusions wrote: Cloth + hp pots => Razor => Boots => Wiggles => Sheen => Mobility => Trinity => Surviabilty
I prefer Banshee as first defensive item right after Trinity. Spell block too good for a "squishy" dps.
Smite/Ghost, 1/8/21 8 Defensive Tree for SoS
With Wiggles, you should be able to keep your hp at 75%+ at all times. Gank only when you're sure you can get away. Dive only when you're sure you can score a kill/assist. Eve doesn't need much HP. Just play smart, not "brave".
Which path is better and why, Wiggles/sheen/tri or razor/vamp/malady/madreds?
Id say wriggles / triforce, simply because its much more stable and faster farming, you will get your items faster. It doesnt have the same amount of damage, but it also has ALOT more utillity, movement speed surviveabillity, wards and a slow.
Thats my view of it, malady madreds suits someone like teemo the best, since his auto attacks scales with it. you could count Q as auto attack as E is, but its simply too squishy in my opinion for a melee char.
Q scales pretty badly compared to AD/On-Hit via R once you hit the higher levels. I wouldn't consider it past 3k gold spent. It's also not targetable in clustered fights.
Item builds on Eve definitely depend on the game imo. Razor/Wriggles/Sheen are always solid items, but after that I wouldn't follow a set in stone build.
If you think you can survive long enough with Malady/Madreds to deal meaningful damage, then it's probably a good idea. If you will only be able to land E, 2-3 autoattacks and a few Qs, then Triforce might be a better idea. Also notice how BR procs are magic, while Triforce procs are physical.
You should just try out various builds on Eve, you can't mess up that much on her items (your gameplay mistakes will most likely have a MUCH larger impact).
Wriggles sets you back 1500 gold, and I don't know how much farm you expect from it. The wards are useful. but sight wards also cost less now.
Eve builds hybrid quite well, and I usually build damage depending on what the team needs. I opened Malady Madreds when I wrote this because tanks (Hi Garen!) were unkillable without Madreds, and I had to 1v5 all my games.
I used to open Sheen, but it's incredibly weak from the time you get Sheen until you get Triforce, which is typically a long time if you are roaming and the other team is somewhat competent. I would probably go for something like Sheen/Malady these days, which would give you some sort of DPS in the first fight.
End game is typically Madreds/Triforce + Tanky, which is really versatile and lets you 1v1 almost every hero.
I don't know the math, but Brutal/GB probably will take down squishies faster, but be less versatile. It's a compromise from AP and this build.
On January 06 2011 03:06 Yiruru wrote: Wriggles sets you back 1500 gold, and I don't know how much farm you expect from it. The wards are useful. but sight wards also cost less now.
Eve builds hybrid quite well, and I usually build damage depending on what the team needs. I opened Malady Madreds when I wrote this because tanks (Hi Garen!) were unkillable without Madreds, and I had to 1v5 all my games.
I used to open Sheen, but it's incredibly weak from the time you get Sheen until you get Triforce, which is typically a long time if you are roaming and the other team is somewhat competent. I would probably go for something like Sheen/Malady these days, which would give you some sort of DPS in the first fight.
End game is typically Madreds/Triforce + Tanky, which is really versatile and lets you 1v1 almost every hero.
I don't know the math, but Brutal/GB probably will take down squishies faster, but be less versatile. It's a compromise from AP and this build.
ghostblade is REALLY good on her, definitly get it and possibly IE afterwards.
I dont see how wriggles can set you back, because it allows you to farm jungle without farming and provides surviveabillity in teamfights ( 17% lifesteal is relevant, and will give you more and more hp as time goes on).
Well if you feel that wriggles / sheen is weak till you get triforce you should probally reconsider your build, if you only want triforce for the sheen procc. You act like a zeal wont scale amazingly with your R and phage will allow you to do some RNG slows and gives you that little beefiness which makes the difference.
I wouldnt go brutalizer AND ghostblade, only ghostblade because when you get ghostblade as late as you do (wriggles - boots - triforce - surviveabillity item) will allready be in your item spots, Id much rather get ghost blade and IE, even though it feels weak to build IE if youre behind, so if youre not ahead you might wanna get another surviveabillity item and sell wriggles for a IE, Cleaver or BT later.
Sheen is what brings the burst damage to Triforce. Triforce doesn't really rack up the damage a whole lot, it mostly brings DPS via utility. I'm perfectly fine with just getting a Sheen and then focusing on other items.
Cait is also a champ to watch out for as Eve. Run into a trap in a bad spot and you might just die.
While sheen is the burst, the phage adds a lot of innate utility and the zeal + ult makes her damage more than reasonable. Having a slow is really nice and since I move in to IE and Phantom Dancer, the crit is of a little extra value.
It sets you back because your Madreds will be too slow if you get Wriggles and just Razor + Vamp gives the same jungling efficiency. If you go the AD route though, it's fine.
Wriggles + Sheen is weak early because that's pretty much all you will have for the first fight or two, and possibly even longer without 6+ kills. At that point you -might- be able to 1v1 their carry who you will probably be going for, but it's going to cut so close and you explode instantly.
Zeal is actually quite bad for it's price, unless you have IE. and the Phage Slow portion is usually not needed, unless you skip GB and Ghost in which case you won't be able to chase enough.
I only mentioned GB + Brutal cause it was mentioned earlier. I really wouldn't go the IE route, rather get a Triforce.
@zulu that looks about right, but I never get Mobility on any hero, so iounno about that. I would only go the APen route if you don't actually have a AD Carry. Triforce is more if you want the slow/utility, while Madreds gives more DPS if you already had Sheen. I've gone both routes multiple times, and they feel about the same, but quite weak if teamfights start before you complete them.
How do you micro eve when you're chasing someone? Her attack speed is way too fast to cancel animation, can't really spam attack move because you have to spam Q at the same time. Do you just spam right click the other champion while spamming Q?
On January 08 2011 23:14 zulu_nation8 wrote: How do you micro eve when you're chasing someone? Her attack speed is way too fast to cancel animation, can't really spam attack move because you have to spam Q at the same time. Do you just spam right click the other champion while spamming Q?
You can spam Q and right click at the same time...?
W in, break stealth and stun, E. Run in front of the champion and spam Q. When you have Sheen, auto attack every time you see the Sheen proc up. It's almost like muta micro. Right click near/in front of the target, right click on once to attack. Immediately go back to right clicking in front of the target to maintain movement acceleration. Spam Q with your left land all while managing movement+auto attacks with right mouse hand.
For muta micro you attack move click on target instead of right click, which is the question I had since spamming attack move is hard when you have to spam q at the same time.
On January 09 2011 05:17 zulu_nation8 wrote: For muta micro you attack move click on target instead of right click, which is the question I had since spamming attack move is hard when you have to spam q at the same time.
Uh, there is no attack move in LoL? There is no "autoattack" key?
On January 09 2011 05:17 zulu_nation8 wrote: For muta micro you attack move click on target instead of right click, which is the question I had since spamming attack move is hard when you have to spam q at the same time.
Uh, there is no attack move in LoL? There is no "autoattack" key?
I'm fairly sure 'a' is attack move in LoL... like 99.99% sure, otherwise my head will explode.
On January 09 2011 05:17 zulu_nation8 wrote: For muta micro you attack move click on target instead of right click, which is the question I had since spamming attack move is hard when you have to spam q at the same time.
Uh, there is no attack move in LoL? There is no "autoattack" key?
I'm talking about hitting "a" then left clicking the hero as opposed to right clicking on the hero, what are you talking about?
Shift+right click is a-move as well. Unfortunatelly i don't know how to turn that crap off, since shift+qwer is one of the most beautiful things in this game but it sux when ur champ interrupts combo to move
So I can still jungle with Eve, however the nerf is noticeable.
I still do the red buff -> gank -> blue -> wolves -> wraiths -> golems path, but I get very low in both HP and mana. I have to get 2 levels in W before maxing E because 10 sec stealth is just so short. Q really hurts my manapool now, it's sad.
Runes are slightly changed from before: ASpd marks Armor seals flat mana glyphs 2 Exp quints 1 flat AD quint
While it is possible to jungle with other glyphs, the 33% extra mana at early levels allow at least some flexibility in mana usage. MP5/L glyphs don't replenish enough mana at these early levels to compete with flat mana imo (tried it).
masteries: 1/15/14, SoS, skip the dodge crap, 1 in vet scars, greed, meditation, buff duration.
You can do various other paths with this setup, like some wraiths/wolves stuff (you will be huting for mana though) or starting at blue. Most of these should work with cloth + pots as well.
On January 14 2011 03:58 Kaniol wrote: Shift+right click is a-move as well. Unfortunatelly i don't know how to turn that crap off, since shift+qwer is one of the most beautiful things in this game but it sux when ur champ interrupts combo to move
you can simply undo it in the ingame options->binds menu. just scroll down a bit.
Ugh. Which item build is now most viable on a jungle Eve? I used to like Madreds/Malady over Triforce but now I feel like she hurts for mana so bad that Sheen becomes necessary. Any thoughts?
It's been a long time since the Eve nerfs, the op is outdated and the last few posts are really old. I just got Eve for fun and was wondering how you are supposed to build/rune/skill her nowadays.
Yeah she walks differently now, played her in a bot game last night and noticed it right away. She used to walk sideways kinda but now she jogs. Her knees are super pointy and it just looks bad.
Anyway I get that she's more of a roamer now but how do you build her? AD? AP? I picked up lichbane but was underfarmed so it didn't really impress. With her ult giving free as I could see maybe going AD but she seems like she wants the burst from e and q so she can gtfo quicker.
Used to be Wriggle's/3Force/tank was the way to go, but now I'm thinking mebbe stunbot AP nuke RUN YOUR ASS OFF roamer. In any case haven't played her for a while because I've fallen in love with a certain troll....
Jungle Eve, Smite/Ignite, Wriggles/Boots5/TriForce/Youmuu's/RageBlade; if game long enough sell wriggles for BT and finish with GA. Jungling's ezpz with leash. AD>AP Imo. Roam the map at 489ms and go where you please.
No defensive items since if you play her properly you won't be taking nukes/cc and you kill 99% of champs <4s anyway. Just my opinions.
it pops stealth but applies e debuff and stun stealth -> e is generally preferred over stun with auto -> e -> w/e because that way you get more qs off and more free wailing with redux def for ur teammates
E has a longer range than your autoattack, yes. Not by a whole much, but if you are chasing and can barely reach the enemy, E him instead of trying to autoattack him.
Q while stealthed can stun 2 targets. Because the Q targeting is kinda random if there are more than 2 enemies in range, it's harder to use, but in some cases it's really good.
On June 28 2011 12:55 101toss wrote: Is eve still viable following the massive nerf? I think it severely damaged her ganking, and consequently, feeding. Also the other reductions as well?
Eve just plain sucks. Don't play her. At all.
Wait for the "stealth remake" that's coming "soon."
Well if you have 3 lanes with strong low level CC/burst (TF, Jarvan, ...) and get everyone to spec 21/x/x etc, then Eve still is a huge threat because nobody lives through multiple ganks like that. I wouldn't ever try that in solo Q though.
just played eve and ended 17-8-15, shes still viable but her lategame is just crap. since you dont got the stun your pretty dam useless in a teamfight, your basically a bait. i play her ap nuke btw, maybe her AD is better lategame.
Stun change is more or less fine ... now it takes more coordination with team to land a gank/kill . Thou ult nerf was not neceseary.
Haven't seen Eve more then a month and imo that's for the better. Eve has the same bad karma as Yi's and Trynd's ..... ppl who pick them either end up feeding and rage quiting or are doing realy well coz other players don't know how to respond ( No wards/oracles try to 1v1 them etc )
Shuerlia left Riot a few months back yes. Remake has been passed onto.. forgot his name but has Classic Jax as forum avatar. Same person who finished off Kayle remake.
On November 22 2011 22:48 MoonBear wrote: Shuerlia left Riot a few months back yes. Remake has been passed onto.. forgot his name but has Classic Jax as forum avatar. Same person who finished off Kayle remake.
Any news on that MB? I really miss playing Eve. I remember hearing something about it being ready for Season 2, but with all these new features and stuff being released I feel like it went to the wayside or something.
On November 23 2011 03:08 sylverfyre wrote: Well, unlike the Kayle remake, they can't POSSIBLY make Eve's passive any worse. (lol - fizz's passive is 100% better.)
Apparently Eve can jungle again with the new masteries - ScY was doing it on stream yesterday in normals after ranked queues were disabled.
Oh FUCKSHITS I forgot about jungle Eve it's been so long!! Yay new masteries! I'm gonna bring that shit back.
Initial test: (super bored and sitting in class so it's all I've been able to do thus far) 9/21/0 With all relevant jungle masteries. 4 pts in attack speed,3 in armor, bladed armor, +30 hp, etc, extra minion dmg, initiator, etc. Runes - standard jungler fare - ArP quints, AS reds, armor yellow, Mres/lvl blue Cloth + 5. No leash. With just this simple start, Eve can ACTUALLY do a full clear without a leash! Considering this, I'm going to try and tweak it for speed and counterjungling and see what I can come up with. Options: Full 21/9/0? Maybe with real good leash, would make ganks even scarier. Smite/ignite or Smite/exhaust instead of flash? Debatable. Change out the Mres blue for extra AS/AP for faster creep killing? Boots or regrowth start is probably out of the question but I'm gonna try that too. Faster mobilities would be real nice (can't say I ever get philo on eve but whateva). So excited to use her again....
I usually play an AP eve with 21-9-0 and jungle, if I get a leash for double golems and start with regrowth + health pot I can clear jungle and gank (to use up flash or occasionally a kill) before backing and getting philo stone and boots, head back to jungle, get blue, then red, and then gank bot usually for a kill. Clear rest of jungle and buy mejai's. From there only target people you know you can kill, and your Mejia's get so high as she has great escape unless she is CC by 2 or 3 champs.
Hybrid eve is also very viable though, as you are not dependent on Mejia's, just build trinity force and mobility boots as soon as possible and the slow and fake crit from it make you devastating.
On November 23 2011 05:37 WaveofShadow wrote: Initial test: (super bored and sitting in class so it's all I've been able to do thus far) 9/21/0 With all relevant jungle masteries. 4 pts in attack speed,3 in armor, bladed armor, +30 hp, etc, extra minion dmg, initiator, etc. Runes - standard jungler fare - ArP quints, AS reds, armor yellow, Mres/lvl blue Cloth + 5. No leash. With just this simple start, Eve can ACTUALLY do a full clear without a leash! Considering this, I'm going to try and tweak it for speed and counterjungling and see what I can come up with. Options: Full 21/9/0? Maybe with real good leash, would make ganks even scarier. Smite/ignite or Smite/exhaust instead of flash? Debatable. Change out the Mres blue for extra AS/AP for faster creep killing? Boots or regrowth start is probably out of the question but I'm gonna try that too. Faster mobilities would be real nice (can't say I ever get philo on eve but whateva). So excited to use her again....
So.....she can pull off 21/9/0 with a good leash. Would probably do a little better if I had AS blues or something but I used Ap instead. Had to pause for a bit before red buff after twins to regain a little health from pots. I leveled QWQE because I figured I'd need extra Q damage to jungle properly but I could try without, putting an extra point in W. I think what it really comes down to is anyone can jungle now with a leash/new masteries....Eve still sucks, which sucks, but a stealth gank from the jungle is still really strong if you can make it work. I think ideally I'd still run full defense for initiator and a little more jungling safety. Gonna try some different routes out now....stupid Q makes her so mana hungry I don't see how she could start anywhere but blue, but we'll see. Also gonna try QWEW as leveling path, because W>E>Q on Eve.
Edit: Ugh...she sucks. More testing reveals you can't do anything at all without a blue start. Tried clearing small camps then blue, but without a leash she ends up so low she can't get anything done. Boots + cloth after small clear isn't worth it unless you want to try ganking without a buff. Gonna have to try her in a regular game now to see how her counterjungling goes....it seems she's still as kill-dependent as ever however.
Are you ganking at level 2? If not, why are you leveling W before E? The shred on E should help with bigger camps, and the burst from it on smaller camps.
On November 23 2011 14:40 sylverfyre wrote: Are you ganking at level 2? If not, why are you leveling W before E? The shred on E should help with bigger camps, and the burst from it on smaller camps.
Are you kidding? One E uses almost her entire mana pool at low levels, even with blue buff, it slows down her creep kill time significantly because you can't spam Q, you have to wait for 12 mana to regen from nothing once you spam it all out.
Try to get 7 or 9 utility with all the mana stuff into your setup. Blue buff regens a % of your max mana, so the increased manapool is even better. The early points are pretty strong in all mastery trees, so something like 9/12/9 should be good. 12 defense also happens to cover Indomitable, Veteran's Scars and Bladed Armor.
On November 23 2011 20:36 spinesheath wrote: Try to get 7 or 9 utility with all the mana stuff into your setup. Blue buff regens a % of your max mana, so the increased manapool is even better. The early points are pretty strong in all mastery trees, so something like 9/12/9 should be good. 12 defense also happens to cover Indomitable, Veteran's Scars and Bladed Armor.
Not really sure how the tradeoff is worth it. At early levels (where Eve mana is an issue) you're only going to have an extra total 70 or so mana at level 6 (and if you haven't gotten a kill or assist by then, chances are you're going to be behind anyway). The extra mp5 from blue buff with the extra mana amounts to about 2-3mp5 at level 6. An extra 6mp5 also doesn't help with Q spam much considering full spam costs about 60mp5. You're also losing a fair amount of survivability in Indomitable (assuming you want Summoner's resolve or Hardiness), Juggernaut, and Honor Guard (notwithstanding Initiator loss, an awesome mastery). The only real benefit I see from going into utility is improved buff duration which Eve really needs to be honest. All this change would serve to do imo is marginally speed up her jungle at the cost of finishing even lower than before, making ganking after camp clearing at any point early on even more difficult.
I dunno...I'll give it a try (I'll take Indomitable as well) but I'm probably going to stick with 9/21/0 just for safety's sake. It seems to be working out for me thus far. Surprisingly enough I haven't had anyone yell at me yet for picking her....we had triple stealth on our last team too....and won.
Her lategame is too weak now. At level 16 she used to be able to put a 2.5 second stun on two targets in teamfights, heal for 500 per assist, and have 100% AS steroid. Now it's no stun, shitty heal, shitty steroid.
On November 24 2011 01:58 rigwarl wrote: Her lategame is too weak now. At level 16 she used to be able to put a 2.5 second stun on two targets in teamfights, heal for 500 per assist, and have 100% AS steroid. Now it's no stun, shitty heal, shitty steroid.
She is weak, but I wouldn't say she's "too weak" in late game. She can still level almost any carry in a 1v1 fight, depending on how you play her. AP-eve can clear out any squishes in a 1v1 fight. AD-eve can clear out squishies in a 1v1 fight, but it'll be close. AD-eve has a lot more sustained damage, I like going youmou's ghostblade, it has amazing synergy with her ulti. I always find my self getting triple kills with AD-Eve, and doing more sustained damage. However once they start focusing you, AP eve is usually the better choice.
I also find that AD eve is better in the game right now, mostly because of how AD masteries are much better than the AP masteries.
Final test: 9/12/9 is absolute balls. Her only viable jungle routes/options seem to be 9/21/0 with Blue start, or some focus on counterjungling, though with everyone leashing these days and only a 10s stealth start, stealing an early blue is probably kinda difficult.
I read a post on the last page about regrowth+pot start to clear small camps, grab Philo and then clear buff camps, but honestly I call bullshit on that, especially with the 21/9/0 start he claimed. Philo would be a good idea on Eve and allows for an easy transition into your choice of assassin-style AP Eve or DPS AD Bruiser Eve, but when I tried small camp clears with cloth + pots and then attempted Blue without a leash I got fucked pretty hard by it and had to wait/bluepill before I could attempt anything else.
Bleh gonna try that one next.
I usually play an AP eve with 21-9-0 and jungle, if I get a leash for double golems and start with regrowth + health pot I can clear jungle and gank (to use up flash or occasionally a kill) before backing and getting philo stone and boots, head back to jungle, get blue, then red, and then gank bot usually for a kill. Clear rest of jungle and buy mejai's. From there only target people you know you can kill, and your Mejia's get so high as she has great escape unless she is CC by 2 or 3 champs.
Yeah unless I'm a big idiot or did something wrong, absolutely impossible. If you don't get a kill you will NOT have enough for philostone + boots, and you won't even have enough mana for a decent gank after clearing small camps. If you B after clearing small camps you won't have enough for philo unless you didn't buy the pot to start (which is ok with a good leash). Clearing blue solo without leash after clearing small camps almost killed me, same as earlier attempt. Way too slow, completely unviable. I guess I should have figured from 2nd-time poster, but I did want to cover all bases.
On November 24 2011 13:39 WaveofShadow wrote: Final test: 9/12/9 is absolute balls.
I'd like to know why. Too squishy for full clear?
I died at red. I think that could be rectified with a slightly better pull (also I may have taken a little too much damage at wolves or something...?) but overall 9/21/0 was better in terms of both speed and safety. The reasoning for 9/12/9 was supposedly being able to use E with the extra mana to clear camps faster, but like I thought, early levels that extra mana doesn't do anything really, while the extra survivability you lose impacts her hard. Overall opinions of jungle Eve: obviously every jungler is better than Eve at this point, but it somehow comforts me knowing I CAN jungle on her again if I want. Stealth ganks too stronk.
Hmm with new incoming buffs, Eve might be a solidly viable jungler again. But then again, with this buff, almost all champions will be viable junglers.
0 damage from minions, would this not maybe perhaps make evelynn viable top lane vs some champs at least? Just thinking about laning now, I mean lvl 1, 2 trades, if you take 0 damage from their minions would have to end in your favor no?
Imagine, a stealthed bruiser in lategame team fights that can get to your carries almost no matter what :D
Alright I guess I'll get it started: I have no idea what to do on this new jungle Eve. After having tried her out (Thanks Flaeyr for the help) with multiple item starts, masteries and runes, here are my conclusions: 1) I have no idea what her starting item should be. I don't think she should be building Wriggle's since she's mostly magic damage and it will be delaying her mobilities/Sheen too much so no Vamp, Cloth+5 or Longsword. She COULD start Philo but with her new passive she does not need the mana regen at all, so is it really worth it just for the gp5? Tried boots which seems a good choice and allows her to get core faster, but she is very fragile with a boots start. What do? (I tried Tome+1 for shits and even that worked, just barely)
2) I have no idea what runes to use. (Ok, I have some idea.) Armor yellows and Mr/lvl blues but as far as reds/quints are concerned, I dunno. MS is nice but with Mobilities, Dark Frenzy and MS masteries she will be above the diminishing return line so fast and so often is it really worth it? Since all her ability damage is magical do you bother with Mpen knowing no assistance with jungle clear time? Attack speed and physical damage seem like good choices because of AD ratios on both her Q and E...tried full AD quints/reds, worked pretty well. ArPen just for jungle and autoattacking?
3) I have no idea what masteries to use. 21 def is nice and helps her live for early ganks better with Red start but do you go 9 in offense or extra MS and buff duration in utility instead. And then do you put your points in the offensive tree into standard AD or AP side? Full AP Eve (21/0/9) had one of the fastest clear times but also one of the scariest in terms of almost dying. Maybe 21/9/0 with armor reds and yellows to compensate....
4) She clears pretty fast. Not a whole lot of difference in clear speed whether you start boots or Regrowth, didn't bother with cloth+5 because no Wriggle's, but the health you finish with is a big difference.
5) Skill order. Q at level 1, E at level two then you CAN gank. Better imo to grab level 3 for W but if you want to clear/farm more grab a second point in Q. After that I have no idea. Best burst comes from E by far, but if you're going to need to do a lot of chasing then Q might be better. My gut seems to be going with a couple points in Q early, max E first and then W second. That speed boost is monstrous even though you gimp her teamfighting by not maxing Q.
Thoughts from anyone? (Obviously this is all subject to change on release, but I wanted to get something out there before the pros go to work and see how my analysis is compared to theirs.)
AP and AD are both viable surprisingly. Really feels reminiscent of Eve when she first got popular. I prefer AP over AD because as an assassin, burst feel more natural.
Boots + 3 pots, you need a big leash on Blue. QEQWQR, R > Q > E > W. You can get 2-3 levels in W before maxing E. Revolver, Sheen feels pretty core for sustain and early burst.
On July 16 2012 13:53 NeoIllusions wrote: AP and AD are both viable surprisingly. Really feels reminiscent of Eve when she first got popular. I prefer AP over AD because as an assassin, burst feel more natural.
Boots + 3 pots, you need a big leash on Blue. QEQWQR, R > Q > E > W. You can get 2-3 levels in W before maxing E. Revolver, Sheen feels pretty core for sustain and early burst.
Hmm. If I'm really going to play her a lot I might adapt according to what I'm facing then. Bruiser AD Eve or Burst squishy AP Eve...gonna have to try them both anyway.
Do you not find though she's too squishy as an AP though? And if you're going to be bursting so much on her why max Q first when E is way higher burst (and gives that attack speed bonus)? I would honestly think maxing E first works better for both builds... I did try Revolver at one point and found the sustain wasn't particularly great...
Hmm...I also wonder if for AD (or hybrid?) build a Vamp scepter would work, building it into Cutlass instead of Wriggle's, then going Gunblade? Gunblade seems like an amazing item for her and would massively assist her ganks, though I'd have trouble building it as my first big item over Triforce.
A lot of these issues feel like the same ones I had when trying out early Skarner builds tbh...
I'm just gonna try doing my jax build on her & see how it goes. Open vamp->cutlass->triforce with a HoG early on cuz I go randuin's eventually. Rageblade could be pretty good on her too.
This is also pretty relevant to jungle Eve. I had noticed this during testing but this pic somebody made sums it up nicely. Ganking is not going to be insanely easy for her...best route seems to be coming through lane.
On July 20 2012 08:50 nosliw wrote: wait, so you basically have to do lane bush gank or river bush gank, and cannot do tri bush gank?
Basically, yeah. You can tribrush gank but they'll see it coming earlier than before.
I'd like to start up some discussion on how she should be played now that the patch has dropped so I welcome opinions and discussion here. I've tried a LOT of stuff myself and...well I'll hold off on my thoughts until later I guess.
So what have you guys found to be a good build for evelynn? Right now I'm doing some retarded regrowth+pot into sheen+malady+trinity+rageblade into whatever I feel like getting and boots added sometime and I was just wondering if there was a better build out there.
On July 20 2012 12:18 LazyFailKid wrote: So what have you guys found to be a good build for evelynn? Right now I'm doing some retarded regrowth+pot into sheen+malady+trinity+rageblade into whatever I feel like getting and boots added sometime and I was just wondering if there was a better build out there.
I have some ideas about what to build on Eve, but they could use some playtesting to see if any of them make sense.
Firstly, Eve benefits both from AP (Q,E,R scaling) and AD (Q,E scaling and E gives her an AS steroid), so hybrid items like Gunblade and Triforce might be good. Triforce is more focused towards an AD build, Gunblade's active is all-around great for its slow but all that spell vamp favors more bursty AP builds.
Her ult can give her a stupid strong damage shield, which means that as far as defensive stats go she should favor armor and mres over health- Abyssal Scepter, Maw of Malmortius, Frozen Heart and so on.
As an assassin, damage items in general should be a safe bet. Anything from Deathfire Grasp to Deathcap to Bloodthirster to IE can make sense. I'd stay away from stuff like Malady and Wit's End because they have very bad synergy with other damage items, and thus make more sense on champions that you want to build more tanky. I'm not personally a fan of Rageblade, but it might be good on Eve.
Finally, never ever get flat armor pen on Eve. All her skills deal magical damage, even the ones that have AD scaling, so you're better off getting flat AD marks for instance over ArPen marks. I could see AD Eve going for a Last Whisper against a team stacking armor, but flat armor pen looks really bad for her.
After the new changes to Evelynn... personally I find her to be broken. Her new stealth is crap, she's easily spotted and 8 seconds unstealthed is too much. Her ult...bleh, I'd much rather have the old one. I'm obviously not a high level player or anything but where as before I had an easy time going 20-4 or something like that, I'm now dying more than I kill.
Does anyone else find her new 'self' way too different? It just doesn't feel like eve anymore...
Been running boots 3 -> wriggles -> sheen -> tanky item or phage -> tanky item or a boots 2 -> finish triforce
I like to run my Armor Red/Yellow, MR LvL blues and MR quint page for max mixed stats as her ult really benefits from the resistances. Also Armor red and yellows help her take less damage in jungle as she already clears quickly. I run 9/21/0 with the AS/ARP in Off and the usuall defensive tree. I would be willing to write a full guide for her after I play her for a couple more days.
New eve so fun! I think the changes to her are pretty good, anything more and she would be really op. The only thing is I haven't been getting wriggles because i like to max Q, wriggles might be good with a E max but q gives good killing power in ganks.
After a while testing her out, I really only have this much to say....she's still terrible. It's honestly very sad because of how much work Riot put into her to update her abilities and such, but as of now she is unusable at any decent level of play.
My reasoning however is very different from the badwagon all other "WTF EVE STILL SUCKS OMG" rants; it is not her current kit that makes her terrible currently, nor was it her kit that made her terrible before the remake.
It's pretty simple: base stats. Eve's base stats are STILL among the absolute worst in the game for a melee champion. They were NOT updated along with her remake like they were for Twitch. She has the highest attack speed in the game currently, but that's about it. She has 16.5 armor at level 1, where most junglers have 20+. Hell, even AD carries start with more armor than her. The melee champion who starts off with worse stats than her is Nidalee, who isn't even a melee champ 'till level 6, at which point she gets BONUS armor from her ult passive. She has absolutely pitiful base health and mana values for a jungler, and while these do increase at a faster rate than many other champions, it's her early game that suffers which crippled her before, and still does.
Because of her lack of base stats, she is completely unable to gank well, or counterjungle. She clears insanely fast as a result of her kit, but she can do basically nothing else. Almost any other jungler save Shyvana offers a better gank in terms of cc or damage and even Shyvana has a self speed boost and beastly base stats for 1v1 exchanges. Eve has none of this. For this very same reason she can't lane very well either (Probably better than she used to because she can attempt to last hit with Hate Spike and harass at the same time, but she is basically unable to exchange 1v1 and may in fact be even worse at it due to lack of old Ravage's armor/MR shred).
For those people saying "BUT LOLZ EVERYONE CAN SEE ME WHEN I GANK," I say, you're doing it wrong. Evelynn's stealth and kit are actually very strong (and even possibly OP where her ult is concerned) and if she had even a little bit of cc more than she does currently or higher base stats, people would be showing exactly how incorrect that way of thinking is. I won't get into detail on this matter because it isn't my point; suffice it to say if you treat Eve as a non-stealth champion as you play her in terms of when and where you think enemies can see you, you'll realize how strong her stealth actually has the potential to be.
As far as I'm concerned, all the work that has been done to Eve to make her less toxic has succeeded and she will no longer be 'unfun' to play against at lower levels due to the removal of the old persistent stealth. Kudos to Riot for that. She still needs some help to bring her up to par, however, and her change in kit and the new stealth is not enough on its own, as Riot must have thought thus far concerning her numbers.
I think the new Eve is worse then the old Eve, or that people need to stop jungling with her. The old Eve, minimally, has a CC that slows. This new Eve has one too, but it's in her ultimate which has like a 2min CD.
I think Eve is too item dependent to jungle. She needs to lane.
How are you going to lane Eve when she gets out-traded by every other solo top champion in the game when she has no sustain?
You win top lane in one of three ways. Out-trade your opponent in damage, out-sustain your opponent, or cry, beg, and pray for your jungler to out-gank your opponent. Other than number 3, Eve can't do anything in top lane.
Eve seems really legit to me now actually. I've always jungled since I started playing LoL and I think Eve has all the tools of a decent jungler. I think the problem with why people don't realise shes legit now is because she has so many ways to go that it's not obvious which style is best.
On July 20 2012 12:18 LazyFailKid wrote: So what have you guys found to be a good build for evelynn? Right now I'm doing some retarded regrowth+pot into sheen+malady+trinity+rageblade into whatever I feel like getting and boots added sometime and I was just wondering if there was a better build out there.
This is pretty much what I do. Eve really screams "build trinity force on me", she benefits from everything and has a spammable ability to keep those sheen procs coming fast.
However I don't like full damage builds on any jungler so I definitely wouldn't go as far as rageblade.I think you want to play Eve like a tanky bruiser now with some unique difference. I find you need to max Q first for fast jungling and that means mana issues so I start with regrowth pendant + hp -> philo stone -> boots -> trinity force -> hexdrinker..... then full tanky items. something like (guardians angel -> Shurelias etc..) edit: Heart of gold at some point-> Randuins seems like a good option too.
This build gives you a really strong mid-game. With some AD and Q spam and her E she has massive burst; ganking at level 6-13ish is very fun and quite easy.
Then in the late game it's all about initiation. Her Ulti is actually really really good, it's just like an old ranged Xin Zhao ult and the enemy can't even see where you are to dodge it! Once you get the shield jump on the AD, hit Shurelias to boost your teams speed and you set up a really strong fight.
On August 13 2012 03:24 Klive5ive wrote: Eve seems really legit to me now actually. I've always jungled since I started playing LoL and I think Eve has all the tools of a decent jungler. I think the problem with why people don't realise shes legit now is because she has so many ways to go that it's not obvious which style is best.
On July 20 2012 12:18 LazyFailKid wrote: So what have you guys found to be a good build for evelynn? Right now I'm doing some retarded regrowth+pot into sheen+malady+trinity+rageblade into whatever I feel like getting and boots added sometime and I was just wondering if there was a better build out there.
This is pretty much what I do. Eve really screams "build trinity force on me", she benefits from everything and has a spammable ability to keep those sheen procs coming fast.
I think Eve is a tanky bruiser now.. I find you need to max Q first for fast jungling and that means mana issues so I start with regrowth pendant + hp -> philo stone -> boots -> trinity force -> hexdrinker..... then full tanky items. something like (guardians angel -> Shurelias etc..) edit: Heart of gold at some point-> Randuins seems like a good option too.
This build gives you a really strong mid-game. With some AD and Q spam and her E she has massive burst; ganking at level 6-13ish is very fun and quite easy.
Then in the late game it's all about initiation. Her Ulti is actually really really good, it's just like an old ranged Xin Zhao ult and the enemy can't even see where you are to dodge it! Once you get the shield jump on the AD, hit Shurelias to boost your teams speed and you set up a really strong fight.
The bolded section in my opinion is exactly her problem. She can't do a thing except jungle clear until 6, and even then her damage and gank is very weak with little to no AP. Building 2 gp5s like that on Eve is a death sentence if you run into the other jungler or if the person you're deciding to gank turns on you, considering how squishy and weak Eve is. Where are you going to get enough gold for a Trinity force and Hexdrinker for her 'massive burst' out of the jungle with weak ganking? Trinity force multiplies your base AD as its proc...you DO know Eve's base AD is among the weakest in the game, right? Just isn't feasible in my opinion.
Now AP Eve is a different story and her popularity is growing. I may write a guide if the interest is there, but I find most people tend to ignore this thread so.....
On August 13 2012 03:24 Klive5ive wrote: Eve seems really legit to me now actually. I've always jungled since I started playing LoL and I think Eve has all the tools of a decent jungler. I think the problem with why people don't realise shes legit now is because she has so many ways to go that it's not obvious which style is best.
On July 20 2012 12:18 LazyFailKid wrote: So what have you guys found to be a good build for evelynn? Right now I'm doing some retarded regrowth+pot into sheen+malady+trinity+rageblade into whatever I feel like getting and boots added sometime and I was just wondering if there was a better build out there.
This is pretty much what I do. Eve really screams "build trinity force on me", she benefits from everything and has a spammable ability to keep those sheen procs coming fast.
I think Eve is a tanky bruiser now.. I find you need to max Q first for fast jungling and that means mana issues so I start with regrowth pendant + hp -> philo stone -> boots -> trinity force -> hexdrinker..... then full tanky items. something like (guardians angel -> Shurelias etc..) edit: Heart of gold at some point-> Randuins seems like a good option too.
This build gives you a really strong mid-game. With some AD and Q spam and her E she has massive burst; ganking at level 6-13ish is very fun and quite easy.
Then in the late game it's all about initiation. Her Ulti is actually really really good, it's just like an old ranged Xin Zhao ult and the enemy can't even see where you are to dodge it! Once you get the shield jump on the AD, hit Shurelias to boost your teams speed and you set up a really strong fight.
The bolded section in my opinion is exactly her problem. She can't do a thing except jungle clear until 6, and even then her damage and gank is very weak with little to no AP. Building 2 gp5s like that on Eve is a death sentence if you run into the other jungler or if the person you're deciding to gank turns on you, considering how squishy and weak Eve is. Where are you going to get enough gold for a Trinity force and Hexdrinker for her 'massive burst' out of the jungle with weak ganking? Trinity force multiplies your base AD as its proc...you DO know Eve's base AD is among the weakest in the game, right? Just isn't feasible in my opinion.
Now AP Eve is a different story and her popularity is growing. I may write a guide if the interest is there, but I find most people tend to ignore this thread so.....
You can gank at level4 too. She's no worse than Skarner, Amumu or any other mana dependent jungler. You can still pull ganks off with boots and red buff. W is a good gap closer and they never see you coming. "squishy and weak" I disagree. She has really good burst damage. q spam and e does a lot of damage fast. Obviously you're not going to stand toe to toe with a mundo, but no-one is, you just hit W and run away.
Base AD varies little among champions; that's a very bad reason not to get trinity force. She has higher AD than Ezreal which some people build TF on. Riot aren't stupid they probably realised that TF would be OP on a character with a very spammable Q so they gave her higher attack speed and lower base AD. It's still a great item on her.
I don't think building AP on her makes any sense, this is why people still think Eve is gimmicky and bad Both Q and E scale from AP AND AD so you won't even do much more magic damage with AP. Plus you're bound to be more squishy with AP items which just isn't going to work late game.
On August 13 2012 03:24 Klive5ive wrote: Eve seems really legit to me now actually. I've always jungled since I started playing LoL and I think Eve has all the tools of a decent jungler. I think the problem with why people don't realise shes legit now is because she has so many ways to go that it's not obvious which style is best.
On July 20 2012 12:18 LazyFailKid wrote: So what have you guys found to be a good build for evelynn? Right now I'm doing some retarded regrowth+pot into sheen+malady+trinity+rageblade into whatever I feel like getting and boots added sometime and I was just wondering if there was a better build out there.
This is pretty much what I do. Eve really screams "build trinity force on me", she benefits from everything and has a spammable ability to keep those sheen procs coming fast.
I think Eve is a tanky bruiser now.. I find you need to max Q first for fast jungling and that means mana issues so I start with regrowth pendant + hp -> philo stone -> boots -> trinity force -> hexdrinker..... then full tanky items. something like (guardians angel -> Shurelias etc..) edit: Heart of gold at some point-> Randuins seems like a good option too.
This build gives you a really strong mid-game. With some AD and Q spam and her E she has massive burst; ganking at level 6-13ish is very fun and quite easy.
Then in the late game it's all about initiation. Her Ulti is actually really really good, it's just like an old ranged Xin Zhao ult and the enemy can't even see where you are to dodge it! Once you get the shield jump on the AD, hit Shurelias to boost your teams speed and you set up a really strong fight.
The bolded section in my opinion is exactly her problem. She can't do a thing except jungle clear until 6, and even then her damage and gank is very weak with little to no AP. Building 2 gp5s like that on Eve is a death sentence if you run into the other jungler or if the person you're deciding to gank turns on you, considering how squishy and weak Eve is. Where are you going to get enough gold for a Trinity force and Hexdrinker for her 'massive burst' out of the jungle with weak ganking? Trinity force multiplies your base AD as its proc...you DO know Eve's base AD is among the weakest in the game, right? Just isn't feasible in my opinion.
Now AP Eve is a different story and her popularity is growing. I may write a guide if the interest is there, but I find most people tend to ignore this thread so.....
You can gank at level4 too. She's no worse than Skarner, Amumu or any other mana dependent jungler. You can still pull ganks off with boots and red buff. W is a good gap closer and they never see you coming. "squishy and weak" I disagree. She has really good burst damage. q spam and e does a lot of damage fast. Obviously you're not going to stand toe to toe with a mundo, but no-one is, you just hit W and run away.
Base AD varies little among champions; that's a very bad reason not to get trinity force. She has higher AD than Ezreal which some people build TF on. Riot aren't stupid they probably realised that TF would be OP on a character with a very spammable Q so they gave her higher attack speed and lower base AD. It's still a great item on her.
I don't think building AP on her makes any sense, this is why people still think Eve is gimmicky and bad Both Q and E scale from AP AND AD so you won't even do much more magic damage with AP. Plus you're bound to be more squishy with AP items which just isn't going to work late game.
She is no worse than Skarner or Amumu? I...I don't even know where to begin wtih that. LOOK AT THEIR STATS. LOOK AT THEIR KITS. Skarner has a perma-slow if you can get close enough that lets your whole team catch up to the target, plus a self-shield and speed boost BEFORE 6, PLUS is tanky as a motherfucker just based on base stats. Amumu has an insanely long range stun and gap closer, is insanely tanky and has a semi spammable low damage AoE early, and after 6 and gank from Amumu is basically a guaranteed kill. Evelynn has absolute SHIT for stats until she levels to like 14. Her Q/E spam do nothing for damage without AD or AP, and frankly, a Triforce doesn't offer her much in terms of raw damage. Evelynn is extremely gimmicky no matter how you play her. Her stealth my definition IS A GIMMICK. At least if you build her AP you can get the most damage out of her, especially since you factor in her ultimate into her burst with AP (no AD ratio on ult).
I dunno dude, based on your arguments for her jungling I'm really not sure how much you've been playing or what skill level of opponents you're playing against, but if you're running Eve jungle you're just asking to be counterjungled and stomped into the ground early. I've argued so many times with so many people I'm getting weary to be honest. I'm sure there is no way to convince you of the errors in your thinking even with my argument above so I'm going to leave it here....arguing the issues about and glaring problems with one of my favourite champions in the game is bad for my blood pressure.
On August 13 2012 03:24 Klive5ive wrote: Eve seems really legit to me now actually. I've always jungled since I started playing LoL and I think Eve has all the tools of a decent jungler. I think the problem with why people don't realise shes legit now is because she has so many ways to go that it's not obvious which style is best.
On July 20 2012 12:18 LazyFailKid wrote: So what have you guys found to be a good build for evelynn? Right now I'm doing some retarded regrowth+pot into sheen+malady+trinity+rageblade into whatever I feel like getting and boots added sometime and I was just wondering if there was a better build out there.
This is pretty much what I do. Eve really screams "build trinity force on me", she benefits from everything and has a spammable ability to keep those sheen procs coming fast.
I think Eve is a tanky bruiser now.. I find you need to max Q first for fast jungling and that means mana issues so I start with regrowth pendant + hp -> philo stone -> boots -> trinity force -> hexdrinker..... then full tanky items. something like (guardians angel -> Shurelias etc..) edit: Heart of gold at some point-> Randuins seems like a good option too.
This build gives you a really strong mid-game. With some AD and Q spam and her E she has massive burst; ganking at level 6-13ish is very fun and quite easy.
Then in the late game it's all about initiation. Her Ulti is actually really really good, it's just like an old ranged Xin Zhao ult and the enemy can't even see where you are to dodge it! Once you get the shield jump on the AD, hit Shurelias to boost your teams speed and you set up a really strong fight.
The bolded section in my opinion is exactly her problem. She can't do a thing except jungle clear until 6, and even then her damage and gank is very weak with little to no AP. Building 2 gp5s like that on Eve is a death sentence if you run into the other jungler or if the person you're deciding to gank turns on you, considering how squishy and weak Eve is. Where are you going to get enough gold for a Trinity force and Hexdrinker for her 'massive burst' out of the jungle with weak ganking? Trinity force multiplies your base AD as its proc...you DO know Eve's base AD is among the weakest in the game, right? Just isn't feasible in my opinion.
Now AP Eve is a different story and her popularity is growing. I may write a guide if the interest is there, but I find most people tend to ignore this thread so.....
You can gank at level4 too. She's no worse than Skarner, Amumu or any other mana dependent jungler. You can still pull ganks off with boots and red buff. W is a good gap closer and they never see you coming. "squishy and weak" I disagree. She has really good burst damage. q spam and e does a lot of damage fast. Obviously you're not going to stand toe to toe with a mundo, but no-one is, you just hit W and run away.
Base AD varies little among champions; that's a very bad reason not to get trinity force. She has higher AD than Ezreal which some people build TF on. Riot aren't stupid they probably realised that TF would be OP on a character with a very spammable Q so they gave her higher attack speed and lower base AD. It's still a great item on her.
I don't think building AP on her makes any sense, this is why people still think Eve is gimmicky and bad Both Q and E scale from AP AND AD so you won't even do much more magic damage with AP. Plus you're bound to be more squishy with AP items which just isn't going to work late game.
She is no worse than Skarner or Amumu? I...I don't even know where to begin wtih that. LOOK AT THEIR STATS. LOOK AT THEIR KITS. Skarner has a perma-slow if you can get close enough that lets your whole team catch up to the target, plus a self-shield and speed boost BEFORE 6, PLUS is tanky as a motherfucker just based on base stats. Amumu has an insanely long range stun and gap closer, is insanely tanky and has a semi spammable low damage AoE early, and after 6 and gank from Amumu is basically a guaranteed kill. Evelynn has absolute SHIT for stats until she levels to like 14. Her Q/E spam do nothing for damage without AD or AP, and frankly, a Triforce doesn't offer her much in terms of raw damage. Evelynn is extremely gimmicky no matter how you play her. Her stealth my definition IS A GIMMICK. At least if you build her AP you can get the most damage out of her, especially since you factor in her ultimate into her burst with AP (no AD ratio on ult).
I dunno dude, based on your arguments for her jungling I'm really not sure how much you've been playing or what skill level of opponents you're playing against, but if you're running Eve jungle you're just asking to be counterjungled and stomped into the ground early. I've argued so many times with so many people I'm getting weary to be honest. I'm sure there is no way to convince you of the errors in your thinking even with my argument above so I'm going to leave it here....arguing the issues about and glaring problems with one of my favourite champions in the game is bad for my blood pressure.
Eve has a speed boost BEFORE 6, red buff is perma slow anyway and she does more damage with Q/E. Skarners E is pointless early. Don't get me wrong I like Skarner too... but how is that a worse lvl4 gank exactly?
The AP ratio on her ult is TWICE as bad as the ratio on DFG. You're really clutching at straws if that's your reasoning for going AP.
I think you just really want her to be gimmicky when she just isn't any more. If you want a character that brings it's own meta you'll have to play Shaco. Eve isn't like that anymore.
On August 13 2012 03:24 Klive5ive wrote: Eve seems really legit to me now actually. I've always jungled since I started playing LoL and I think Eve has all the tools of a decent jungler. I think the problem with why people don't realise shes legit now is because she has so many ways to go that it's not obvious which style is best.
On July 20 2012 12:18 LazyFailKid wrote: So what have you guys found to be a good build for evelynn? Right now I'm doing some retarded regrowth+pot into sheen+malady+trinity+rageblade into whatever I feel like getting and boots added sometime and I was just wondering if there was a better build out there.
This is pretty much what I do. Eve really screams "build trinity force on me", she benefits from everything and has a spammable ability to keep those sheen procs coming fast.
I think Eve is a tanky bruiser now.. I find you need to max Q first for fast jungling and that means mana issues so I start with regrowth pendant + hp -> philo stone -> boots -> trinity force -> hexdrinker..... then full tanky items. something like (guardians angel -> Shurelias etc..) edit: Heart of gold at some point-> Randuins seems like a good option too.
This build gives you a really strong mid-game. With some AD and Q spam and her E she has massive burst; ganking at level 6-13ish is very fun and quite easy.
Then in the late game it's all about initiation. Her Ulti is actually really really good, it's just like an old ranged Xin Zhao ult and the enemy can't even see where you are to dodge it! Once you get the shield jump on the AD, hit Shurelias to boost your teams speed and you set up a really strong fight.
The bolded section in my opinion is exactly her problem. She can't do a thing except jungle clear until 6, and even then her damage and gank is very weak with little to no AP. Building 2 gp5s like that on Eve is a death sentence if you run into the other jungler or if the person you're deciding to gank turns on you, considering how squishy and weak Eve is. Where are you going to get enough gold for a Trinity force and Hexdrinker for her 'massive burst' out of the jungle with weak ganking? Trinity force multiplies your base AD as its proc...you DO know Eve's base AD is among the weakest in the game, right? Just isn't feasible in my opinion.
Now AP Eve is a different story and her popularity is growing. I may write a guide if the interest is there, but I find most people tend to ignore this thread so.....
You can gank at level4 too. She's no worse than Skarner, Amumu or any other mana dependent jungler. You can still pull ganks off with boots and red buff. W is a good gap closer and they never see you coming. "squishy and weak" I disagree. She has really good burst damage. q spam and e does a lot of damage fast. Obviously you're not going to stand toe to toe with a mundo, but no-one is, you just hit W and run away.
Base AD varies little among champions; that's a very bad reason not to get trinity force. She has higher AD than Ezreal which some people build TF on. Riot aren't stupid they probably realised that TF would be OP on a character with a very spammable Q so they gave her higher attack speed and lower base AD. It's still a great item on her.
I don't think building AP on her makes any sense, this is why people still think Eve is gimmicky and bad Both Q and E scale from AP AND AD so you won't even do much more magic damage with AP. Plus you're bound to be more squishy with AP items which just isn't going to work late game.
She is no worse than Skarner or Amumu? I...I don't even know where to begin wtih that. LOOK AT THEIR STATS. LOOK AT THEIR KITS. Skarner has a perma-slow if you can get close enough that lets your whole team catch up to the target, plus a self-shield and speed boost BEFORE 6, PLUS is tanky as a motherfucker just based on base stats. Amumu has an insanely long range stun and gap closer, is insanely tanky and has a semi spammable low damage AoE early, and after 6 and gank from Amumu is basically a guaranteed kill. Evelynn has absolute SHIT for stats until she levels to like 14. Her Q/E spam do nothing for damage without AD or AP, and frankly, a Triforce doesn't offer her much in terms of raw damage. Evelynn is extremely gimmicky no matter how you play her. Her stealth my definition IS A GIMMICK. At least if you build her AP you can get the most damage out of her, especially since you factor in her ultimate into her burst with AP (no AD ratio on ult).
I dunno dude, based on your arguments for her jungling I'm really not sure how much you've been playing or what skill level of opponents you're playing against, but if you're running Eve jungle you're just asking to be counterjungled and stomped into the ground early. I've argued so many times with so many people I'm getting weary to be honest. I'm sure there is no way to convince you of the errors in your thinking even with my argument above so I'm going to leave it here....arguing the issues about and glaring problems with one of my favourite champions in the game is bad for my blood pressure.
Eve has a speed boost BEFORE 6, red buff is perma slow anyway and she does more damage with Q/E. Skarners E is pointless early. Don't get me wrong I like Skarner too... but how is that a worse lvl4 gank exactly?
The AP ratio on her ult is TWICE as bad as the ratio on DFG. You're really clutching at straws if that's your reasoning for going AP.
I think you just really want her to be gimmicky when she just isn't any more. If you want a character that brings it's own meta you'll have to play Shaco. Eve isn't like that anymore.
Two things. I didn't even mention Skarner's E in his jungling strengths. I don't jungle Eve as AP. I mid.
Edit: You know what? Here's a third thing. The AP ratios on all her abilities are better than AD.
On August 13 2012 03:24 Klive5ive wrote: Eve seems really legit to me now actually. I've always jungled since I started playing LoL and I think Eve has all the tools of a decent jungler. I think the problem with why people don't realise shes legit now is because she has so many ways to go that it's not obvious which style is best.
On July 20 2012 12:18 LazyFailKid wrote: So what have you guys found to be a good build for evelynn? Right now I'm doing some retarded regrowth+pot into sheen+malady+trinity+rageblade into whatever I feel like getting and boots added sometime and I was just wondering if there was a better build out there.
This is pretty much what I do. Eve really screams "build trinity force on me", she benefits from everything and has a spammable ability to keep those sheen procs coming fast.
I think Eve is a tanky bruiser now.. I find you need to max Q first for fast jungling and that means mana issues so I start with regrowth pendant + hp -> philo stone -> boots -> trinity force -> hexdrinker..... then full tanky items. something like (guardians angel -> Shurelias etc..) edit: Heart of gold at some point-> Randuins seems like a good option too.
This build gives you a really strong mid-game. With some AD and Q spam and her E she has massive burst; ganking at level 6-13ish is very fun and quite easy.
Then in the late game it's all about initiation. Her Ulti is actually really really good, it's just like an old ranged Xin Zhao ult and the enemy can't even see where you are to dodge it! Once you get the shield jump on the AD, hit Shurelias to boost your teams speed and you set up a really strong fight.
The bolded section in my opinion is exactly her problem. She can't do a thing except jungle clear until 6, and even then her damage and gank is very weak with little to no AP. Building 2 gp5s like that on Eve is a death sentence if you run into the other jungler or if the person you're deciding to gank turns on you, considering how squishy and weak Eve is. Where are you going to get enough gold for a Trinity force and Hexdrinker for her 'massive burst' out of the jungle with weak ganking? Trinity force multiplies your base AD as its proc...you DO know Eve's base AD is among the weakest in the game, right? Just isn't feasible in my opinion.
Now AP Eve is a different story and her popularity is growing. I may write a guide if the interest is there, but I find most people tend to ignore this thread so.....
You can gank at level4 too. She's no worse than Skarner, Amumu or any other mana dependent jungler. You can still pull ganks off with boots and red buff. W is a good gap closer and they never see you coming. "squishy and weak" I disagree. She has really good burst damage. q spam and e does a lot of damage fast. Obviously you're not going to stand toe to toe with a mundo, but no-one is, you just hit W and run away.
Base AD varies little among champions; that's a very bad reason not to get trinity force. She has higher AD than Ezreal which some people build TF on. Riot aren't stupid they probably realised that TF would be OP on a character with a very spammable Q so they gave her higher attack speed and lower base AD. It's still a great item on her.
I don't think building AP on her makes any sense, this is why people still think Eve is gimmicky and bad Both Q and E scale from AP AND AD so you won't even do much more magic damage with AP. Plus you're bound to be more squishy with AP items which just isn't going to work late game.
She is no worse than Skarner or Amumu? I...I don't even know where to begin wtih that. LOOK AT THEIR STATS. LOOK AT THEIR KITS. Skarner has a perma-slow if you can get close enough that lets your whole team catch up to the target, plus a self-shield and speed boost BEFORE 6, PLUS is tanky as a motherfucker just based on base stats. Amumu has an insanely long range stun and gap closer, is insanely tanky and has a semi spammable low damage AoE early, and after 6 and gank from Amumu is basically a guaranteed kill. Evelynn has absolute SHIT for stats until she levels to like 14. Her Q/E spam do nothing for damage without AD or AP, and frankly, a Triforce doesn't offer her much in terms of raw damage. Evelynn is extremely gimmicky no matter how you play her. Her stealth my definition IS A GIMMICK. At least if you build her AP you can get the most damage out of her, especially since you factor in her ultimate into her burst with AP (no AD ratio on ult).
I dunno dude, based on your arguments for her jungling I'm really not sure how much you've been playing or what skill level of opponents you're playing against, but if you're running Eve jungle you're just asking to be counterjungled and stomped into the ground early. I've argued so many times with so many people I'm getting weary to be honest. I'm sure there is no way to convince you of the errors in your thinking even with my argument above so I'm going to leave it here....arguing the issues about and glaring problems with one of my favourite champions in the game is bad for my blood pressure.
Eve has a speed boost BEFORE 6, red buff is perma slow anyway and she does more damage with Q/E. Skarners E is pointless early. Don't get me wrong I like Skarner too... but how is that a worse lvl4 gank exactly?
The AP ratio on her ult is TWICE as bad as the ratio on DFG. You're really clutching at straws if that's your reasoning for going AP.
I think you just really want her to be gimmicky when she just isn't any more. If you want a character that brings it's own meta you'll have to play Shaco. Eve isn't like that anymore.
Two things. I didn't even mention Skarner's E in his jungling strengths. I don't jungle Eve as AP. I mid.
Edit: You know what? Here's a third thing. The AP ratios on all her abilities are better than AD.
Well I don't think she's a viable AP mid, but imo she has a decent jungling kit. As for ratios you would expect AP to be more because it doesn't increase AA dmg. It's only slightly more.
Her ganks are pretty strong pre-6. Are you using W for your initial close or something? You shouldn't do that.
If I could figure out a build I liked I'd be pretty into her. She seems to be pretty much Yi in teamfights (not good at it), but Yi that can gank is, well, pretty good. Thinking something like going for a pile of midgame items, wriggles hex bruta phage aegis, then start upgrading to maw ghost mallet
On August 13 2012 04:57 UniversalSnip wrote: Her ganks are pretty strong pre-6. Are you using W for your initial close or something? You shouldn't do that.
If I could figure out a build I liked I'd be pretty into her. She seems to be pretty much Yi in teamfights (not good at it), but Yi that can gank is, well, pretty good. Thinking something like going for a pile of midgame items, wriggles hex bruta phage aegis, then start upgrading to maw ghost mallet
Try my regrowth -> philostone opening similar to how many play Amumu/Skarner. I reckon you jungle faster with leveling Q first and mana regen than you do with wriggles and the gold/10 is always nice. Because she's hybridish I don't think you get so much out of the lifesteal part of the wriggles so drop that. The rest of your items look really solid though. It would be interesting to see your thoughts. I use 0/21/9 masteries.
She needs wriggles to clear buffs. She is also a shyvana typr exhaust smite jungler. Just a tad slower. Eve is a farmy jungler not a ganky one now. She needs farm but cant lane so midgame items are best like suggested. Wriggles hex phage sheen aegis etc. she needs phage exhaust or red to gank without ult. Philo is also good before or after wriggles but resists scale best on her
On August 13 2012 18:19 Bladeorade wrote: She needs wriggles to clear buffs. She is also a shyvana typr exhaust smite jungler. Just a tad slower. Eve is a farmy jungler not a ganky one now. She needs farm but cant lane so midgame items are best like suggested. Wriggles hex phage sheen aegis etc. she needs phage exhaust or red to gank without ult. Philo is also good before or after wriggles but resists scale best on her
I definitely don't think wriggles is required, you can easily clear buff with just sheen.
On August 13 2012 18:35 Bladeorade wrote: So you go sheen first? That just sounds bad to me. You need philo with that first 800 or scepter and cloth.
Also her ecan double proc wriggles and then you get a guge as boost for more wriggles procs. Idk just seems so smooth on her
I open regrowth into philo then sheen. She just does a ton of damage, you don't need wriggles, and sheen/tri is fucking godlike on her, worth rushing asap. Same thing as with jax.
Wriggles isn't bad, I'd buy it if you know people are going to be super safe and you wont be able to gank, but its evelynn and you can usually make shit happen. Sheen and phage or cutlass make her ganks and dueling damage monstrous.
Idk ill try it in normals doesnt sound great for ranked if its countered by safe play. Also it seems we differ in play style. I find eve better played farming and you sound like you gank more.
Interested to hear some more thoughts on Eve after the most recent buff. I'd love to play her as a jungle and I feel shes in a pretty good spot for it at the moment. One of the things that looks really strong for her is CDR, as a larger uptime on her AS buff would be great, but also an incredibly short cooldown on her ult which is rather strong, looks like it could be a lot of fun.
Sadly the choices for an AD build with CD arent the best - Zeke's Ghostblade and Sherulya's look like the best options, but you need at least some combination of 2 to reach 30, which not only leaves you short by 10%, but also puts you in a weird spot whereby you cant get triforce as quickly as one might like.
After extensive talking/theorycrafting/testing with DURRHURRDERP, consensus is jungle AP Eve is only way to go. (I like mid as well but he disagrees with me there) Full burst AP jungle Eve: Boots--> 2xDrings-->Kage/Sorcs-->Abyssal/DFG-->Rylai's--> GA I think that's right. Supplement early build with mana/hp pots as needed as you often run out of mana real fast even with rings and passive.
Works at all elos, and there are different mastery/rune builds that work; can do 21/9/0, 13/17/0. Summoners are dependant: always Smite, but Flash/Exhaust/Ignite all work. (If you run Ignite, take Offensive mastery for OP early game damage/ganks.
With the recent buffs to Eve I believe Riot dun goofed and she's gonna need to be re-nerfed, but by all means take advantage of this while you can. It's the closest we're ever going to get to old pre-nerf OP Eve.
If anyone is particularly interested I can go into detail about build/masteries/runes/ganking paths/timings and such, but people tend not to pay attention to this thread too much. (Also I'm not going to lie, I'm afraid that if this catches on too quickly the nerfs will come quicker!)
To be honest, I'd love to see a more detailed breakdown. The OP is so out dated its completely useless, it would be nice to have a smaller write up on her that people can look back onto.
Eve is one of my all time favourite champions and I played her long into her nerfs into uselessness, but reluctantly gave her up over time, as more and more people got better with dealing with her, and given that she was so bad, you could become pretty irrelevant pretty fast.
Regardless, I'd be pretty eager to see more of your thoughts on her, your build sounds very interesting indeed (honestly was leaning towards AD myself, although I can see the appeal in AP, especially if you play her mid, although that does lose some of your amazing surprise gank ability from the jungle) More information would always be appreciated but I'll have a work on what you've put down, thanks!
On August 31 2012 15:08 WaveofShadow wrote: After extensive talking/theorycrafting/testing with DURRHURRDERP, consensus is jungle AP Eve is only way to go. (I like mid as well but he disagrees with me there) Full burst AP jungle Eve: Boots--> 2xDrings-->Kage/Sorcs-->Abyssal/DFG-->Rylai's--> GA I think that's right. Supplement early build with mana/hp pots as needed as you often run out of mana real fast even with rings and passive.
Works at all elos, and there are different mastery/rune builds that work; can do 21/9/0, 13/17/0. Summoners are dependant: always Smite, but Flash/Exhaust/Ignite all work. (If you run Ignite, take Offensive mastery for OP early game damage/ganks.
With the recent buffs to Eve I believe Riot dun goofed and she's gonna need to be re-nerfed, but by all means take advantage of this while you can. It's the closest we're ever going to get to old pre-nerf OP Eve.
If anyone is particularly interested I can go into detail about build/masteries/runes/ganking paths/timings and such, but people tend not to pay attention to this thread too much. (Also I'm not going to lie, I'm afraid that if this catches on too quickly the nerfs will come quicker!)
Actually I've been doing fieldsinred's build now and it seems pretty good, though I usually mix it up with an early abyssal:
2 Doran's rings -> Lucky pick -> Sorc shoes -> DFG (the burst with an early DFG is just ridiculous in the midgame, fuck gp10 get kills) -> Abyssal (if vs double AP or really fed AP, otherwise) -> Deathcap
As I play it more I find that the tankiness that I thought I needed isn't as necessary if I can land some good ults.
Also I've been running Ignite/Smite only now (ala fieldsinred), double ignite is just too funny for killing runners. After the buffs I've definitely noticed a (semi) minor change in mana costs, you still need to buy mana pots, but not as many as before.
On September 01 2012 01:20 Shiv. wrote: Route and timings would be much appreciated. I'm currently trying to make her work myself and the AP approach seems really nice.
DURR is still probably a better person to answer most of the questions people have as he's much better than me, but I can try and answer and he can correct me.
Usual route is wolves-->Blue-->Wraiths-->Red-->gank bot. (If you're purple side, try top, but honestly bot lane is tons easier.) Avoid using smite at blue so you can have full health and a smite for Red and level 3 gank. She absolutely needs kills early and often, but the best part is, you WILL get them. It's basically impossible to avoid an Eve gank if she is positioned properly. The only thing you have to worry about is brush wards, since the enemy will see you if they get close to you and you're standing on one. Be sure your bot lane lets you know if river or bot lane is pinked as well (doesn't happen too often surprisingly...)
You can essentially gank from anywhere, though usually lane ganks into brush are best. She has a huge advantage over regular lane ganks because you can walk right into a brush even when minions can see you. With the AP jungle build, you don't have any cc early, but your chasing/damage is MASSIVE, so even one cc from a Taric/Janna/Trist/etc will mean a kill bottom lane. Be careful of counterganks though because you are definitely more squishy in a 3v3 early before your ult.
Um...my thoughts are a little disjointed about what else I can/should talk about.
Kinda sad how people still think eve is a troll pick, every game you gotta prove your worth to your team mates, and if you lose they blame everything on you because you picked eve-.-.
Rageblade/Phage/Sheen is a good core for a more DPSy evelynn. The order depends on the enemy team - too fast? get phage. need more damage? rageblade/sheen. (I'm not sure which is more cost efficient for deepz, though it's probably sheen) I'm not sure whether it's better to follow up with CDRtank, more dps, or just resists.
On September 01 2012 12:53 DURRHURRDERP wrote: TBH there's really no point building dps/ad eve since you're too reliant on phage procs and all her abilities scale so much better with AP.
Is this even for jungle Evelynn? I somewhat doubt that she can get enough farm to justify an AP build. I never tried, of course, so maybe you should enlighten me if I am wrong.
On September 01 2012 12:53 DURRHURRDERP wrote: TBH there's really no point building dps/ad eve since you're too reliant on phage procs and all her abilities scale so much better with AP.
Is this even for jungle Evelynn? I somewhat doubt that she can get enough farm to justify an AP build. I never tried, of course, so maybe you should enlighten me if I am wrong.
100% viable and better than AD Eve. Try the builds DURR an I listed above. You're committing to an all-in burst build which works really well when you snowball early.
As for phage procs and such, I honestly find I don't like autoattacking at all unless I have to (NOTE: I'm talking in teamfights, where she is at her most vulnerable). Kiting with her speed boost is pretty effective and she can deal all her damage at range, even her E which was recently buffed. Being in melee range of anyone as Eve isn't great unless you're going to kill them in 1 burst combo; the difference between having to autoattack and eat all sorts of damage and keeping a short but steady distance with Q and W passive is pretty big imo.
You can get pretty fed running AP jungle Eve because you can really surprise people (unless they start mass pink warding their lanes as well as gank paths). It actually plays quite similar to the old pre-nerf Eve that had stun except you now have massive burst instead of a stun.
Rageblade Phage seems like a boss offensive core. Can you hate spike with no targets around? If so, as long as you have mana, you can maintain stacks so you start a teamfight at or near full stacks, which, when combined with the incredibly efficient stats rageblade offers... is really good. I get it on Skarner when I have the freedom to build an purely offensive item... which is sadly very rarely. Eve is a little easier to build offense on it seems, you're not trying to facetank the entire enemy team's wrath to ult someone.
On September 01 2012 18:00 sylverfyre wrote: Rageblade Phage seems like a boss offensive core. Can you hate spike with no targets around? If so, as long as you have mana, you can maintain stacks so you start a teamfight at or near full stacks, which, when combined with the incredibly efficient stats rageblade offers... is really good. I get it on Skarner when I have the freedom to build an purely offensive item... which is sadly very rarely. Eve is a little easier to build offense on it seems, you're not trying to facetank the entire enemy team's wrath to ult someone.
Sadly you can't spam hate spike without a target, and you wouldn't want to cos it would break stealth. But you hit full stacks really quickly off of just Q spam, W and E.
Right now, AP Eve is better than DPS. This is pretty much a fact. But for those like me who find DPS eve more fun, GRBPhage is the way to go.
Eve is surprisingly strong top, just spam Q when melees try to lasthit, if they use a gap closer on you, just E them and W and run like the wind. Her laning is stronger top than mid IMO. Of course your roaming, which is her strong point, is harder to do from top lane :/
When jungling AP Eve, which runes/masteries setup would you use? Double pen seems strong but way too costly in points, while mp5/MS/buff duration in utility look interesting to use the red buff and your chasing power better (I'm not sure about mp5, apparently the buff of her passive makes her less blue-dependant?). On the other hand, we're talking about Eve so a minimum of 11 in defense seems mandatory (reduce incoming damage/minion damage, more armor, more HP). What about 9-12-9 on her?
And for runes, AD or AS (MPen would only be useful when ganking, but then again she relies a lot on ganks) reds, flat armor yellows, flat armor or flat/scaling MR blues, and armor or MS quints. Something like that?
From what I've seen, the item path is boots+3, kage, 1-2 drings if needed to pad your stats a bit, DFG, then it depends on how fed you get, from deathcap if you really are to maybe Abyssal (dunno after the range nerf, abyssal range is shorter than both DFG and your stealth) or stuff like GA/lichbane if you need to be a bit tankier.
On September 13 2012 09:53 Alaric wrote: When jungling AP Eve, which runes/masteries setup would you use? Double pen seems strong but way too costly in points, while mp5/MS/buff duration in utility look interesting to use the red buff and your chasing power better (I'm not sure about mp5, apparently the buff of her passive makes her less blue-dependant?). On the other hand, we're talking about Eve so a minimum of 11 in defense seems mandatory (reduce incoming damage/minion damage, more armor, more HP). What about 9-12-9 on her?
And for runes, AD or AS (MPen would only be useful when ganking, but then again she relies a lot on ganks) reds, flat armor yellows, flat armor or flat/scaling MR blues, and armor or MS quints. Something like that?
From what I've seen, the item path is boots+3, kage, 1-2 drings if needed to pad your stats a bit, DFG, then it depends on how fed you get, from deathcap if you really are to maybe Abyssal (dunno after the range nerf, abyssal range is shorter than both DFG and your stealth) or stuff like GA/lichbane if you need to be a bit tankier.
I dunno maybe. Magic Pen Reds/Armor Yellows/ AP/L Blues?(could do MR I guess)/ and either Movespeed/AP Quints. Could run armor too i think
0K, turns out runes and masteries don't matter that much, used ArPen/armor/scaling MR/MS and an incomplete 9-12-9. It was arguably on a smurf, but the ability to oneshot anybody that doesn't build MR (didn't have the opportunity to get void staff and use it on people with MR) makes it so retarded, you snipe people left and right, and if you don't engage right away you can even have your E back to nuke whoever tries to dive your carries.
Post-6 + DFG, you don't even come to gank, you just come to kill a laner by yourself. ô_o I don't think MPen reds would be a good idea though, AD or an AD/ArPen mix prob better since she jungle so slowly at first you need that to take less damage (I did a first game without a leash, the second one I got a leash but the red started attacking me and reseted at some point).
On September 13 2012 10:05 ReketSomething wrote: Had an ap eve mid in ranked today on my team. She got fed hard
Was it vs Galio mid by chance?
Her burst is absolutely ridiculous against almost anybody and sadly she will be nerfed pretty soon imo.
Use her while you can.
I wouldn't be surprised... ranked game I was against her as Ryze, my Jax feeds her double buffs while screwing around in the enemy jungle... and then I got brutalized in lane because Mumu wouldn't leave me alone. Now Eve can roam whereever she wants and I can't do jack to stop her. And if I'm not careful, she can just use her speed buff after my snare and chunk my health in lane too. That was really, really stupid.
R>Q>E>W? I don't initiate, so I stay around the fight, waiting for the tanks to go in, but I find myself that I have to use W to get a good R off... but I die b/c I get cc due to W cd. Suggestions?
On September 13 2012 14:07 nosliw wrote: R>Q>E>W? I don't initiate, so I stay around the fight, waiting for the tanks to go in, but I find myself that I have to use W to get a good R off... but I die b/c I get cc due to W cd. Suggestions?
Build DFG, combo it with R to make sure you get your W back less than 2 seconds later. I haven't had any problem to pick off a target by skirting around the edges of the fight, not showing myself and trying to come in at odd angles. I usually have to E to finish off tho but the enemy team never really turned on me, or not fast enough to plow through the shield and kill me before I got away.
boots+3 -> pick -> DFG -> sorcs -> guise so absurd, true damage to anyone neglecting to buy MR and then you just stack some AP and snipe people from outside stealth range. I generally still need to E them to seal the deal, but unless they've got good CC and reaction time I can snipe a squishy then get out as soon as a fight start, or even before. I feel really useless after that though, unless I manage to get a few more E in during the fight.
I always did to be able to clear camps between ganks. But I think you can probably play around only putting 2-3 points into Q then max E. Eve mid has to max Q I believe because otherwise you'll just get too pushed to roam.
On September 13 2012 22:47 Alaric wrote: boots+3 -> pick -> DFG -> sorcs -> guise so absurd, true damage to anyone neglecting to buy MR and then you just stack some AP and snipe people from outside stealth range. I generally still need to E them to seal the deal, but unless they've got good CC and reaction time I can snipe a squishy then get out as soon as a fight start, or even before. I feel really useless after that though, unless I manage to get a few more E in during the fight.
Evelynn has absolutely disgusting damage in the mid-game. She's probably the best roamer out of all current AP mids since stealth is so strong. After she picks up her DFG, she can wander bottom lane at any time and pick up a kill.
The reason you max Q over E is that Q does more sustained damage. Her base damage and ratios aren't high enough such that you should give up the AoE sustained damage of Q for more frontloaded burst on E.
She's going to see nerfs though, her winrate at the moment is approaching that of release zyra/Diana, 59% winrate in platinum is absurdly high.
I think Riot needs to take a look at how they're assigning AP ratios. AP Eve is especially good because her AP ratios are better than her AD ratios, something that is the exception rather than the rule considering the fact that high AD is harder to get than high AP.
I kinda hope they don't nerf her yet to be honest. Eve is finally not a joke pick and her only viability might be as a solo queue stomper mid roamer. If anything Riot should create more champs like current Eve. That excel at one thing really well but is kind of mediocre in other areas.
I'd rather wait and see if people figure out ways to deal with Eve or wait and see if she's even viable in high level arranged 5s.
what do you guys build after dfg and guise? I've been going rabadon then abyssal scepter, but i've seen people suggest a hextech gunblade before rabadon.
I don't really think that Gunblade is worthwhile. You have already committed pretty hard to AP over AD by picking up the DFG (with it, an extra AP-scaling skill) and focusing hard on your burst. Gunblade just isn't going to help your DFG-ult-faceroll burst the way true AP or MPen items will. What you're doing makes sense (though there's no harm in getting the Abyssal first over the DFG, situationally.)
I like tanking out (synergize with ult) with cdr just being a nuisance to the enemy team while spamming aoe dmg on a .9 second cooldown. Add in sheen(into triforze) or athenes or rageblade or hexdrinker and just ride your base dmg the rest of the way.
Being able to initiate fights and resetting w with kills or assists makes you stick on their carries so hard.
I theorized about triforce/gunblade/tanky Eve when I first read about the rework, Jax style. But it turns out to be too fucking expensive, and way less effective since Jax's ult resistances scale better with sustain than Eve's HP shield, plus Q is AoE and she's supposed to use her ult before the big burst comes down so she doesn't spellvamp that much compared to single-target Q, W and R passive for Jax. So I don't build gunblade on her anymore.
Not necessarily on the ult before big burst. You can use it to bait and since that shield is so huge you can drop pretty low before using it. I don't like gunblade either. Too much gold sink into vamp stuffs when Eve should be picking and choosing her own fights that is the benefit of her stealth.
hm so i just watched Froggens stream a bit, the eve in his game went 9-0 Oo
i played eve a couple of times now but I suck, I dont know why I dont get the kills/dmg output. I guess the discussion about eve being imba atm was in the september patch thread, but I'll ask here instead.
1. I go for boots of mobility rather than sorcerers shoes. Is that a mistake? Since I only have to get in range to hunt down someone with Q I dont really need to be faster than them (unlike garen). Also I wonder if any +ms runes/masteries are useful? 2. Since I only jungle I take magic penetration/armor/ap per lvl runes. What quintessences should i take? 3. How do you engage someone pre level 6? Get red buff, walk to the enemy and then spam q and e and use w only if you get slowed? Or do you use w beforehand? But then one is not invisible anymore.... 4. Isnt DFG first an allin build? I think rylais is a very strong item on eve... dfg/mejai/rabadons seems like a do or die build. 5. Same for ignite instead of flash. This is crazy
1. Yes, go Sorc Shoes instead. 2. Probably flat APs. 3. Can depend on a few things, generally you want to use W first to gap close then E/Q for the front loaded burst + red buff procs. Or you can have your teammates bait them into committing to a kill/trade and just use W to get rid of a slow (if they use it on you). 4. I used to think DFG first on jungle eve was bad, but then I realized Eve as a champion is all in to begin with. Without DFG your burst is decreased by a LOT. The usual build for jungle eve is something like, DFG -> deathcap/abys -> void -> GA or banshees or w/e defensive you need. 5. Ignite works surprisingly well for securing kills but it sucks if you get counter jungled. Again, it is pretty all-in but if you think about Eve's kit, (currently) it is made for this (securing kills -> getting away with W).
I pick exhaust when I jungle her, just to make those early kills easier and thus help your snowballing (your laners usually already have ignite anyway). Also rylai is more expensive than DFG and provides a lot less: Eve's RE already bursts a lot, and your W for repositioning/living to get another E off is refreshed by kills, so you want to burst rather than dps with Q and rylai (the slow is pretty weak anyway since it's AoE).
DFG won't one-shot people at level 6, but it'll help tremendously, and later on with a bit of AP you'll simply be able to oneshot squishies with DFG->RE. Just pick your battles and positioning well, and abuse the fact that DFG's range is longer than the enemy detection (unless oracle) so when they see you coming it's already too late.
OK the last 4 games with eve 14-5-15, 13-11-17, 15-6-19, 17-5-7. With DFG you really get the kills fast, especially the ad carry and enemy jungler (lee f.e.) are easy to take down. I also realized what was being said about "coming in from odd angles". Usually I waited until someone iniates battles and then try to hit as many people as possible with r while spamming dfg e q on the adc. But since this build is so squishy and I got stunned and killed a lot without dealing damage I now try to position myself rather behind the enemy team in order to get to the adc faster... Is that a mistake? Since I'm invis before I use w I think the risk of being caught out of position is really low. Also I'd like to know what you build after sorcerers shoes/dfg. Directly rabadon? Rylai?
It really depends, are you trying to snipe someone important (ad/ap carry) or are you trying to do the most damage possible for your team (try to hit 5 with ult). Usually get deathcap or abyssal after DFG.
On September 22 2012 19:09 Djin)ftw( wrote: OK the last 4 games with eve 14-5-15, 13-11-17, 15-6-19, 17-5-7. With DFG you really get the kills fast, especially the ad carry and enemy jungler (lee f.e.) are easy to take down. I also realized what was being said about "coming in from odd angles". Usually I waited until someone iniates battles and then try to hit as many people as possible with r while spamming dfg e q on the adc. But since this build is so squishy and I got stunned and killed a lot without dealing damage I now try to position myself rather behind the enemy team in order to get to the adc faster... Is that a mistake? Since I'm invis before I use w I think the risk of being caught out of position is really low. Also I'd like to know what you build after sorcerers shoes/dfg. Directly rabadon? Rylai?
Tried her with abyssal/sorcs/dfg/haunting guise, didn't like that too much. She scales too well with AP because of ulti/DFG, silly to stack penetration.
Mostly I go Sorcs/DFG with a dorans or two if needed then straight Dcap. But then again, I've gotten fed most of my evelynn games so far, so I don't really know how I would build her if I was behind.
Late game, I definately try to snipe their AD carry from behind or from the sides. If their initiator over extends, you can blow him up really quick as well unless he's really stacking MR. % health damage so balanced. Just make sure to make it a 4v5/3v5 as fast as possible, get out of there if needed and then go in to clean up again.
On September 22 2012 19:09 Djin)ftw( wrote: OK the last 4 games with eve 14-5-15, 13-11-17, 15-6-19, 17-5-7. With DFG you really get the kills fast, especially the ad carry and enemy jungler (lee f.e.) are easy to take down. I also realized what was being said about "coming in from odd angles". Usually I waited until someone iniates battles and then try to hit as many people as possible with r while spamming dfg e q on the adc. But since this build is so squishy and I got stunned and killed a lot without dealing damage I now try to position myself rather behind the enemy team in order to get to the adc faster... Is that a mistake? Since I'm invis before I use w I think the risk of being caught out of position is really low. Also I'd like to know what you build after sorcerers shoes/dfg. Directly rabadon? Rylai?
Tried her with abyssal/sorcs/dfg/haunting guise, didn't like that too much. She scales too well with AP because of ulti/DFG, silly to stack penetration.
Mostly I go Sorcs/DFG with a dorans or two if needed then straight Dcap. But then again, I've gotten fed most of my evelynn games so far, so I don't really know how I would build her if I was behind.
Late game, I definately try to snipe their AD carry from behind or from the sides. If their initiator over extends, you can blow him up really quick as well unless he's really stacking MR. % health damage so balanced. Just make sure to make it a 4v5/3v5 as fast as possible, get out of there if needed and then go in to clean up again.
Thing is, even against mr runes/scaling mr runes you only need sorc + guise for (close to) true damage to squishies.. Making abyssal pretty inefficient for your burst. Sorc -> dfg -> guise is pretty common and good on eve though (also seen in wcs korea finals the one game eve was played by najin sword)
On September 22 2012 19:09 Djin)ftw( wrote: OK the last 4 games with eve 14-5-15, 13-11-17, 15-6-19, 17-5-7. With DFG you really get the kills fast, especially the ad carry and enemy jungler (lee f.e.) are easy to take down. I also realized what was being said about "coming in from odd angles". Usually I waited until someone iniates battles and then try to hit as many people as possible with r while spamming dfg e q on the adc. But since this build is so squishy and I got stunned and killed a lot without dealing damage I now try to position myself rather behind the enemy team in order to get to the adc faster... Is that a mistake? Since I'm invis before I use w I think the risk of being caught out of position is really low. Also I'd like to know what you build after sorcerers shoes/dfg. Directly rabadon? Rylai?
Tried her with abyssal/sorcs/dfg/haunting guise, didn't like that too much. She scales too well with AP because of ulti/DFG, silly to stack penetration.
Mostly I go Sorcs/DFG with a dorans or two if needed then straight Dcap. But then again, I've gotten fed most of my evelynn games so far, so I don't really know how I would build her if I was behind.
Late game, I definately try to snipe their AD carry from behind or from the sides. If their initiator over extends, you can blow him up really quick as well unless he's really stacking MR. % health damage so balanced. Just make sure to make it a 4v5/3v5 as fast as possible, get out of there if needed and then go in to clean up again.
Thing is, even against mr runes/scaling mr runes you only need sorc + guise for (close to) true damage to squishies.. Making abyssal pretty inefficient for your burst. Sorc -> dfg -> guise is pretty common and good on eve though (also seen in wcs korea finals the one game eve was played by najin sword)
Yeah, that's true. Guess I've been just been building all three penetration items because the pros do it. It's pretty obvious that 70 penetration is way too much now that I think of it, thanks for pointing it out. I guess you would go Dcap after guise? And sell Guise for Void Staff late game? Sounds pretty good.
Will play some games with that build and reevaluate ^^
i started recently playing wow and after playing morgana pretty well, i tried out eve. Wow... Only me or does eve seem alil op? its like a mage with high dps but not as squishy and free speed burst. i go like 15-1 everygame with it.
Also, does your q spell benefit from attack +? like with trinity. I haven't really been going for trinity because it takes so long to get. I feel like sheen, soulstealer, dfg, kage is a must. But in late game i'm just not sure what to get. More ap for dps? or would you need some life steal or defense since with q, you have to get near enough to do dmg.
On September 23 2012 07:06 Mystic_Starcraft wrote: i started recently playing wow and after playing morgana pretty well, i tried out eve. Wow... Only me or does eve seem alil op? its like a mage with high dps but not as squishy and free speed burst. i go like 15-1 everygame with it.
Also, does your q spell benefit from attack +? like with trinity. I haven't really been going for trinity because it takes so long to get. I feel like sheen, soulstealer, dfg, kage is a must. But in late game i'm just not sure what to get. More ap for dps? or would you need some life steal or defense since with q, you have to get near enough to do dmg.
I would say currently she's OP. The amount of burst she can dish out while being able to enter squishy range to combo them from 100% is a little ridiculous, and in her ult she can offer a little more team utility than some other assassins.
I'm honestly kind of hoping though the OP-ness shows at the Season 2 Championships and some of the pro teams actually pick her in serious games. Won't get my hopes up though because unless they drastically plan on changing their playstyles, most of the pro teams don't opt for all-in assassins...
So Not gonna lie I really like GA after DFG and boots 2.
I tend to get focused a lot in team fights because of the wtfbbq burst and with just a DFG in mid game you still do crazy damage and you do awesome sustained damage with Q E and autos so you are good at cleaning up (imo.)
Its not always a good build path obviously but it has its merits. (Especially with the Armor/MR scaling with your shield.)
she might have come a little late for the s2 championships. once the s3 item overhaul comes everything is going to be up in the air for whos strong and who isn't anymore.
there isn't that much information out on it right now but morello made a post talking about the problems with brusiers and saying how they'll be solved with the s3 item overhaul. riot staff post a lot in their forums on stuff like this and its been around for a while.
I'm sure they'll address it after the s2 champs like they did with the jungle and masteries after the s1 finals.
I tried jungle ap eve, and I have trouble making my first clear with enough health to gank. I start boots 3 pot, and do wolves - blue - smite red for a lvl 3 gank bot, but I am always not full health. Any ideas?
Usually if you get a good smiteless leash on blue you should be around half hp after picking up double buff, it's like marginal for getting a kill/first blood but its no big deal if you need to clear more and go back. Try not to put yourself into a position to feed first blood/double buff (easy to do on someone as squishy as eve at half hp) and definitely do not open cloth5 or 21 defense masteries.
Man, I just have obscene success with eve jungle in solo, like just wreck people and carry games.
I tried the FOTM AP mid build and really hated it, boring to play and I hate being so squishy and one-combo.
I've tried a ton of builds and I just have massive success with Triforce-rageblade-Randuins, you do so much aoe damage in teamfights if you have the tiny bit of tankyness, and nobody can catch you or 1v1.
i just cant image not building tri and rage, they are so obscenely efficient on Eve, she uses absolutely every stat on them to the max, and you have 8 stacks on rage instantly.
I was happy to see DFG nerfed to shit, this build still crushes face.
Before discussing new items on eve for mid lane my first question is starting AD runes with her but then going AP. I'm liking this set up but i am wondering if AP and Mpen would still be more effective.
Second, I'm not very good at this game only 1500, so maybe better players could tell me how I should set up with the new masteries and items. For items I'm currently trying out
Boots 3 - Hunting Guise - DFG - Abyss Spt - Lind Torment - Boots of Mob - hourglass - insert needed item as last one
I love Scarras evelynn build. Spirit of Elder Lizard +sorc into full tank (warmogs, FH, bulwark). It's so fun and actually very strong. I used to hate playing eve but love it now. '
On January 21 2013 06:25 DEN1ED wrote: I love Scarras evelynn build. Spirit of Elder Lizard +sorc into full tank (warmogs, FH, bulwark). It's so fun and actually very strong. I used to hate playing eve but love it now. '
On January 21 2013 06:25 DEN1ED wrote: I love Scarras evelynn build. Spirit of Elder Lizard +sorc into full tank (warmogs, FH, bulwark). It's so fun and actually very strong. I used to hate playing eve but love it now. '
On January 21 2013 06:25 DEN1ED wrote: I love Scarras evelynn build. Spirit of Elder Lizard +sorc into full tank (warmogs, FH, bulwark). It's so fun and actually very strong. I used to hate playing eve but love it now. '
But... You get Sorc boots and buy ad? Seems inefficient. And what's with the lizard passive on a burst champ like Eve? Again, seems inefficient.
Had an Eve do it in a game yesterday, I cant understand how it even does damage honestly.
Hate Spike does magic damage and scales off of AD. It's not that hard to understand how it works. Pen doesn't work off the AP or AD stat, it works off of the type of damage the specific attack deals.
On January 21 2013 06:25 DEN1ED wrote: I love Scarras evelynn build. Spirit of Elder Lizard +sorc into full tank (warmogs, FH, bulwark). It's so fun and actually very strong. I used to hate playing eve but love it now. '
But... You get Sorc boots and buy ad? Seems inefficient. And what's with the lizard passive on a burst champ like Eve? Again, seems inefficient.
Had an Eve do it in a game yesterday, I cant understand how it even does damage honestly.
Hate Spike does magic damage and scales off of AD. It's not that hard to understand how it works. Pen doesn't work off the AP or AD stat, it works off of the type of damage the specific attack deals.
+25 damage on hate spike into pure tank 120 + 25 before resistances.
On January 21 2013 06:25 DEN1ED wrote: I love Scarras evelynn build. Spirit of Elder Lizard +sorc into full tank (warmogs, FH, bulwark). It's so fun and actually very strong. I used to hate playing eve but love it now. '
But... You get Sorc boots and buy ad? Seems inefficient. And what's with the lizard passive on a burst champ like Eve? Again, seems inefficient.
Yes, your abilities scale off both AD or AP but do magic damage regardless so Sorc boots. Who says Eve HAS to be played as a burst champ? This build makes her a very good bruiser which is good now with so many assassins running around. How exactly is AD, CDR, and true damage to everyone hit by your q inefficient? It is actually EXTREMELY efficient.
Remember when 5 Sunfire Evelynn was popular? Same principle, using her reasonable base damages, low cooldowns, and natural mobility to perform effectively as a tank. Lizard Elder does true damage and slows, making it ideal for this sort of semi-tank.
5 sunfires eve was funny cause you burnt fools to death without being visible. Spirit of the elder lizard doesn't slow, but it gives cdr and that is very good if you're relying on base damage. Sunfire + elderlizard is alot of aoe dot thanks to hate spikes
So I have been playing a lot of jungle Eve lately. It seems very good in the lower ELO regions, because apparently nobody expects an invisible jungler making their life hell. Also imo she is very good in lvl1 fights, because E is like 100 damage lvl1 and Q is great for drawn out fights. Also she can start with both on her jungle route.
The only problem I have so far is finding a good build. I used to go lizard into warmogs, but I felt my ganking burst dmg was lacking. Then I started going spectral wraith into warmogs, but still I felt way less OP then I used to. Any tips?
EDIT: I couldn't find an Eve thread in the strategy subforum. I hope this is ok.
On February 11 2013 22:49 Fildun wrote: So I have been playing a lot of jungle Eve lately. It seems very good in the lower ELO regions, because apparently nobody expects an invisible jungler making their life hell. Also imo she is very good in lvl1 fights, because E is like 100 damage lvl1 and Q is great for drawn out fights. Also she can start with both on her jungle route.
The only problem I have so far is finding a good build. I used to go lizard into warmogs, but I felt my ganking burst dmg was lacking. Then I started going spectral wraith into warmogs, but still I felt way less OP then I used to. Any tips?
EDIT: I couldn't find an Eve thread in the strategy subforum. I hope this is ok.
She is way less OP than she used to be, simple as that. Her mid is way worse because the threat of 100-->0 burst is nonexistent right now with the state of her ultimate. I have yet to try out the Lizard elder jungling method.
On February 11 2013 22:49 Fildun wrote: So I have been playing a lot of jungle Eve lately. It seems very good in the lower ELO regions, because apparently nobody expects an invisible jungler making their life hell. Also imo she is very good in lvl1 fights, because E is like 100 damage lvl1 and Q is great for drawn out fights. Also she can start with both on her jungle route.
The only problem I have so far is finding a good build. I used to go lizard into warmogs, but I felt my ganking burst dmg was lacking. Then I started going spectral wraith into warmogs, but still I felt way less OP then I used to. Any tips?
EDIT: I couldn't find an Eve thread in the strategy subforum. I hope this is ok.
She is way less OP than she used to be, simple as that. Her mid is way worse because the threat of 100-->0 burst is nonexistent right now with the state of her ultimate. I have yet to try out the Lizard elder jungling method.
What?
If you use ult first, the damage is the same.
The 100-->0 burst potential is practically the only thing they left unchanged after the all the nerfs.
The DFG change means she doesn't do 65% of your health pre-reductions (she still does ~44% with DFG -> ult on the target and 300 AP). People also tend to stack health.
Previously, you could stack MPen then DFG->ult somebody to drop them to low enough health that a EQQ combo (or even just QE) would finish them off every time. Two things happened: - your %health damage isn't high enough anymore that you can snipe them with so little. - people buy more health so MPen or not, even the 30% max health the pre-nerfs DFG->ult combo would drop them to would be too much to handle for Eve.
Combine the two, and she can't snipe people anymore. She's still a good initiator, especially in an AoE team, and a good disrupter against squishies and carries that haven't bought their health item yet and have to deal with her or get Q'd down if they ignore her and her huge shield in the middle of the team, but that's not what was asked of her so you have to play Eve differently now (and closer to what Riot seemed to aim at with the remake).
ive been playing eve as a bruiser top and getting a ice fist on her is really funny. ive been using frozen mallet instead of warmogs and its working fairly well. nashors tooth is really good as well. theres so many items that she can use its hard figuring out the best order to buy so far im starting with a cloth 5 and then boots into haunting guise after that a giants belt and from there idk. im runing adc runes and 9-21 masteries with the points in both ap and ad. she plays similar to olaf, except with 550 move speed and invisibilty.
Tried to jungle Eve, going machete+5 -> spirit stone + boots -> sorcs -> wraith spirit -> guise, and then I just built Liandry's because people were all getting randuin's/zhonya's and stuff because of fed Kha'Zix and splitpushing Tryndamere so I was dealing true damage to them anyway.
She felt a bit slow, even with the wraith spirit, but maybe that's because I didn't put much AP into my masteries (went 9-21-0, I guess I could have just went 21-9-0 or something) or runes (MPen/armour/scaling AP/MS, my only page with both MPen and armour). I ended up behind too because our Caitlyn didn't understand that when your jungler goes into the purple tribrush after his gank put the enemy carry around 100 HP and the lane is pushing hard, you're supposed to push harder and pressure the tower so he can dive and get you a kill, so I died.
I wasn't until I had Liandry's+Wraith spirit worth of AP and level 11+ that I really felt I was doing something. Her level 1 ultimate's damage and cooldown are really underwhelming, plus if you don't build a bunch of AP you won't be able to farm creep waves well when you hold or just farm a sidelane.
If somebody's been jungling Evelynn with more success since her nerfs and the jungle changes I'd be eager to read about it, I like the idea behind her (especially using her passive in the jungle) but her power curve feels really underwhelming right now, especially considering how weak her early jungling is.
I find Eve goes either too low in mana or hp in the jungle. So instead, I just pick a lane and camp the crap out of it. I tell the laner to play aggro as hell and just countergank over and over again. (works a lot more than you think because no one thinks you're going to just afk in the lane nonstop) Ideally this should be bot because bot laners get so complacent with regular green wards. Even vision wards don't really shut you down because of bush vision ward mechanics. You have to pick a lane that can aggro well because if you're in a soraka/vayne lane for god knows what reason, it's probably not so hot. Aside from buffs & the occasional wraith camp, I don't think I bother being in the jungle at all. On the other hand, it's very nice for purple side because you basically offer free wraith camps for mid and golems for top with the caveat that you need blue pretty much nonstop because otherwise you just can't level. PS. You can also do a red elixir + 4 pots + ward solo lane style for her in the jungle. The machete doesn't really make a difference especially because spirit stone is meh until spectral wraith and you might end up wanting to just rush a codex => morellonomicon instead or haunting into liandry.
Is Morellonomicon good on her? I mean, obviously if for some reason you need its passive, Hate Spikes are great to constantly apply it, but does the CDR have value apart from her ult?
On March 10 2013 05:53 Alaric wrote: Is Morellonomicon good on her? I mean, obviously if for some reason you need its passive, Hate Spikes are great to constantly apply it, but does the CDR have value apart from her ult?
I was too squishy in a fight without the shield from her ult. =\ The overall build up is also pretty decent. I mean, ideally you obviously would like the Rabadons + Lichbane + Liandries but I've never had money so I just end up building whatever gave good AP + CDR.
On February 13 2013 20:33 Alaric wrote: The DFG change means she doesn't do 65% of your health pre-reductions (she still does ~44% with DFG -> ult on the target and 300 AP). People also tend to stack health.
Previously, you could stack MPen then DFG->ult somebody to drop them to low enough health that a EQQ combo (or even just QE) would finish them off every time. Two things happened: - your %health damage isn't high enough anymore that you can snipe them with so little. - people buy more health so MPen or not, even the 30% max health the pre-nerfs DFG->ult combo would drop them to would be too much to handle for Eve.
Combine the two, and she can't snipe people anymore. She's still a good initiator, especially in an AoE team, and a good disrupter against squishies and carries that haven't bought their health item yet and have to deal with her or get Q'd down if they ignore her and her huge shield in the middle of the team, but that's not what was asked of her so you have to play Eve differently now (and closer to what Riot seemed to aim at with the remake).
With her old ult and old DFG, she would still be crazy good. If she can do 70%+ (that isn't even a high number for prenerf eve/dfg, 6 items was more than 100% max health), she's still going to drop most targets in E + 1-3 Qs.
Your second point is kind of strange. Against someone who is getting mass health and modest amounts of MR, flat penetration + %max health spells is the best possible way to damage them. I don't see how the health stacking in S3 would hurt such a champion more then the resist stacking in S2.
Simple: against MR, you can buy a void staff and drastically reduce their damage reduction. Against HP, you have to build more AP (unless you're a dps-oriented mage like Karthus/Ryze/Cass and it just takes longer for you to kill). But it's easier, especially now in s3, to reach a health pool that no matter how much AP you stack your base damage and ratios won't match, even if you were to deal true damage.
This doesn't matter much to champs like Nidalee, Lux, Orianna who can poke till the target is low enough, and are "utility mages" anyway, or champs like Kassadin, Rumble who have very low cooldown and aim at crippling you, then finishing you off with the next rotation, than 100-0ing you unless they're fed. However, initiators like Annie, Ahri, or burst mages like Evelynn and Viktor can't 100-0 those targets anymore, not matter what they build. This makes their lives and goals much harder, and emphasise even more their peak timing during midgame, relative to late game where their inability to instakill a valuable target will harshly hurt them. While they can still function, they have a countdown to win the game until the enemy team gets tanky enough.
(And yes, you have exceptions, like LeBlanc or Syndra who could probably drop somebody with DFG assuming true damage. That's not the point though, as DFG is an assassin item and I was talking more about burst mages in general. Note that Warmogs didn't have its cost nerfed yet when I wrote the post you quoted too, and you could see 3k HP champs everywhere as soon as 25 or even 20 minutes, or earlier for solo lanes with high base HP.)
On February 13 2013 20:33 Alaric wrote: The DFG change means she doesn't do 65% of your health pre-reductions (she still does ~44% with DFG -> ult on the target and 300 AP). People also tend to stack health.
Previously, you could stack MPen then DFG->ult somebody to drop them to low enough health that a EQQ combo (or even just QE) would finish them off every time. Two things happened: - your %health damage isn't high enough anymore that you can snipe them with so little. - people buy more health so MPen or not, even the 30% max health the pre-nerfs DFG->ult combo would drop them to would be too much to handle for Eve.
Combine the two, and she can't snipe people anymore. She's still a good initiator, especially in an AoE team, and a good disrupter against squishies and carries that haven't bought their health item yet and have to deal with her or get Q'd down if they ignore her and her huge shield in the middle of the team, but that's not what was asked of her so you have to play Eve differently now (and closer to what Riot seemed to aim at with the remake).
The 44% doesn't take the damage amplification from deathfire grasp into account. If you 100-->0 a target, dfg will have dealt another ~9.5% max health dmg.
Dfg deals 20% bonus dmg on the remaining health (56%), which means that for every 5 dmg dealt, dfg will add 1 dmg. Thus dfg accounts for 1 out of 6 remaining dmg.
56% / 6 = 9.5%
So ult + dfg will account for ~53% max health. Eve was nerfed, but not as badly as you make it sound.
Anyway, I agree on your latest post regarding the playstyle of post-nerf Eve, as it is harder to instagib people unless you are fed. She's still fine though. (Eve main in plat 2 if it matters).
Edit: Solo queue: I disagree with the notion that you have to win in the mid game though. Even if you fail to snowball early, it is still reasonably feasible to win games in late game simply by sneaking a kill on their ad carry, whom you are still able to instagib.
Is full AP eve mid still viable? I played it in a couple of normals recently and it felt very powerful. It might also have been that I was against a full squishy team so I could basically instagib anyone, but it felt really strong.
On April 26 2013 05:49 Fildun wrote: Is full AP eve mid still viable? I played it in a couple of normals recently and it felt very powerful. It might also have been that I was against a full squishy team so I could basically instagib anyone, but it felt really strong.
According to lolking I am 14-3 with Eve in my last 17 games (diamond 3). A week ago my highest rank ever was plat. I think she's plenty powerful.
On April 26 2013 05:49 Fildun wrote: Is full AP eve mid still viable? I played it in a couple of normals recently and it felt very powerful. It might also have been that I was against a full squishy team so I could basically instagib anyone, but it felt really strong.
AP eve still super strong. NA and EU haven't played Eve in a really long time but she's still picked up regularly in the Asian scene, although some teams prefer to run her as a jungler.
Ran into an interesting Diamond V Jungle Eve player today. His build was 4 Spirit of the Elder Lizard + Sorcerer's Shoes. Here's his runes and masteries if you're interested in trying his build out, his summoners were Smite + Exhaust. I have no idea if his build is actually good or if he was just more skilled than us and trolling hard. I suspect that the build is actually good.
That actually looks like a pretty good build, with so much true damage on your Q's.(if it stacks, I'm not quite sure) Unfortunately you will get called a troll if you do that at Gold V
The true dmg doesn't stack and the butcher passive is inconsequential. The reason stacking lizards works it that the item is underpriced. Comparing lizard to BF sword you pay 450 gold for 14 health regen, 7 mana regen and 10 cdr. The health regen alone is worth 450 gold. This is ignoring both passives.
Going lizard elder into tank items is pretty standard on Eve jungle and works on mid too.
No, that build is utter shit.....stacking that much regen is a complete waste and evelynn doesn't even need any mana regen. All that regen is basically completely wasted as you could build any lifesteal or spellvamp and have full health constantly anyway. With the regen gone you are paying 2k for 1890g worth of stats, and the passive doesn't stack so you can quarter whatever value you assign to its tiny amount of true damage.
Compare that gold efficiency with basically any other tier 3 item, its fucking awful.
In the end though is doesnt matter what its efficiency is. AD Eve with no survivability items whatsoever is made of paper and will get blown up instantly.
Yeah I agree that the build seems bad. I was more rather replying to the concept of stacking lizards and why it doesn't matter that the passive doesn't stack.
Edit: Oh yeah one more thing, I have no idea why you think health regen is bad. Warmogs was popular and it has 1% health per 5 which translates to 30 health per 5 at 3000 max hp. Lizard is 14 per 5.
Mid game: Kill a target with 1500 hp from full (typical gank) and the true dmg from lizard will have dealt 25 dmg. It's not the passive that makes the difference...
On June 27 2013 17:45 ShaLLoW[baY] wrote: how in the hell is jungle eve supposed to accomplish anything early levels?
you need to have the right runes and masteries. Jungle Eve is really a hybrid eve, you gain something around +16 damage @ lvl 1 on hatespike with the setup. Once you get Lizard Elder, the combination of CDR and true damage doubles your jungle speed and does a ton of damage in ganks. What I like to do as eve is just constantly camp the bot lane. Eventually the enemy jungler is gonna come bot and you can countergank him in the river. Jungle Eve(diamondprox build) must start 21/9(AP w/ jungle masteries) and 9 AD Marks/3 AP Quints Build: Rush Lizard Elder->then build AP/Mpen or Tanky depending on what's happening in the game
Yeah, I think she is the strongest jungler in the game too Same as czylu, I find the most success in ganking bottom lane often. Because you are squishy, you have to be careful about counterganks, but it's workable. Early on I agree that it's hard to accomplish anything, which is why I prioritize farming. Fortunately you are one of the fastest junglers in the game.
For runes I use AD marks, armor Seals and flat AP Glyphs and Quintessences, to maximize my damage in order to farm faster (and also do more damage, duh). 21/9/0 masteries with AP and flat AD masteries in the offense. As czylu said, elder lizard and boots1 first, sorcs+haunting guise is the usual followup, but depending on enemy damage merc treads and ninja tabi are viable options. Zhonyas is a very good early item against AD-only teams, or it can be bought later if appropriate. I myself have been experimenting with Sheen and similiar items, but it's too early to tell whether it's a good idea or not.
How do you typically engage with her when your ult is down? With ult everything feels good, I've got the burst I need to bring someone down in a gank, they can't get away fast. Without ult I feel like people would get to their tower without taking enough damage to force a back.
I'm used to elise and the stun basically telling my laner to go all out on the laner and without that some of my ganks feel lackluster. Now that I've written all this out I think it's more a matter of me playing her a bit more / picking better gank targets.. oh well.
Another question do you ever w as you're entering vision to close distance? Or do you save it for when people start trying to run away?
Yeah, when your ult is down you have to rely on your teammate's CC and/or coming from a superior angle (somewhat from behind). I do W to get in range from the front quite often, you can save it if the enemy has some slow to try to escape or if you come from side/behind though. And yeah, you have to be very very picky about your gank targets.
So does jungle eve with SotEL rely on autos also do deal damage? Because if it is the case, the new wits end should be interesting on her, buffing her auto dmg, jungle farming and magic shred for a fair price. Alternatively, does twin shadow sound good on eve? I mean the slow could help ganking when your ult is down and the item itself is really cost efficient as well? (correct me if i'm wrong)
*btw, should jungle eve max w or e second? I mean e does crazy dmg maxed, but the mana cost goes through the roof while w is no cost and makes you a real pain to chase/get away from....
Jungle Eve with lizard elder doesn't really care about autos altho it helps. Lizard elder procs on your Q and your Q also has an AD ratio. I think most people max W after Q.
Yes, max W, you aren't very likely to stay in range for autoattacks right after Eing very often, either because you are squishy or because you don't have your W maxed :p And no, you don't rely on your autoattacks much.
Haven't tried Twin Shadows, but it seems kinda meh. While you truely don't have many options for Magic Resistance, you have even fewer for HP, and if you desire a slow I think Rylais should work better.
I think some people are playing her a tad bit wrong though (or at least not the playstyle I like.) They try to play her as a squishy AP burst carry which she can be, but I enjoy the hunter like I will chase you down while still being super fast unkillable and doing tons of dmg.
Max Q>W>E. W is one of the best spells in the game. It makes you as fast as Hecarim, removes slows and resets. The passive movement speed boost you get from your spell casts is also huge considering your Q is your major source of dmg.
Also buy a frozen fist on her after your Elder Lizard and actually AA with her. Sheen has always been one of the best items on Eve and frozen fist gives you the sheen proc, slow and tank. No one gets away from you between the slow and your movement speed boost/slow immunity.
I really , really want to get good with jungle eve, she was my favorite jungle back when she was the shittiest character in the game Thanks for the tips guys, I think I've been building her wrong and prioritizing the wrong things (farms vs ganks) in the early game.
wowwwww, just tried this ibg evelynn, this is freakin awesome. Nobody gets away, even an alistar couldn't get me off him. Great against ad heavy comps too :p
I don't see why I would get IBG over Rylais. Health is a better defensive stat even on Eve, the Rylais slow is more reliable over time, and it doesn't take long to make up for the burst damage from the auto.
Jungle Evelynn is so good. You either get the enemy to spend billions on pinks or become a ganking beast... And even if the enemy has 2 pinks you can lanegank with the speedup incredibly well in certain situations. I also think that she's a really underrated teamfighter and she snowballs extremely hard.
As a toplaner, Evelynn is by far the most dangerous jungler to face, and I either need to decide between spending 250g per back on being ungankable or just not buying any wards ever. Doing it half-assed just doesn't seem to work against her and she gives me the most trouble out of all junglers by far.
As for the build, I'd go with Rageblade because it has so good synergy with everything about her, especially if you're able to delay your ult until you're below half hp.
On July 02 2013 19:21 Shikyo wrote: especially if you're able to delay your ult until you're below half hp.
Probably if you wait like that also your enemy probably isnt full hp anymore, and your ult scale with % current health so... Why keep it when you can start a fight with your ulti and maximize your damage? it doesnt make sense...
rageblade looked really nice at first to me, but so much of the gold value of the item is tied up in attack speed. between already having an AS steroid on your E and being a squishy melee who doesn't get a ton of opportunities for prolonged auto-attacking, rageblade doesn't very efficient on eve at all.
Rageblade seems pretty terrible since it doesn't give any hp whatsoever and given that all your skills except for E are AoE (and you will use E at the start of the fight and it has moderately long cooldown) the spellvamp and the lifesteal are going to be quite useless. Since you are a melee champion with no jumps and no HUGE burst (not Zed level) you need some sort of tankiness unless you plan on splitpushing (hint - you can't, because you are a jungler) Since you want to get SotEL first, you will be pretty squishy from the start of the midgame. Getting rageblade then is pretty awkward, since that is a LOT of money (2600!!!) invested in exactly 0 survivability. Zhonyas is useless if you have to use it immediately after casting your ult, so you would need to get some HP going first too. As mentioned before, Rageblade is actually not very cost efficient, so that sucks too. The alternative is to get Haunting Guise, and because it is a lot cheaper so you get it like 1000 gold quicker you can afford to go straight for Zhonyas probably because you can still kind of survive out of your base stats+200hp from haunting guise.
I mean I could dismiss it on grounds of being pretty horribly inefficient for anyone who is too squishy to be able to fight reasonably well at 50% hp but this reasoning extends to any expensive damage only items, so there you go long winded response.
Theoretically, shouldn't Eve be focused more on resists than just HP if she wants tankiness because she gets a shield?
I know guise is pretty standard on her already. Also, how often does she even auto? Her Q is on a 1.5 second cooldown. Would some sort of blue build be good on her? (IBG + Muramana).
Not muramana because she abuses the proc poorly. Perhaps Seraph, which goes in with the tankiness that she wants - thing is, her base mana is pretty meh and she doesn't really need a big mana item to spam her shit since she has blue-buff type mana regen whenever she's stealthe.d
Yeah, you don't really have that many mana problems, not enough to justify getting tear at all, it just makes you so much weaker. Yes, theoretically focusing on resists is better, which is part of why Zhonyas is so good on her, but you can't rely on getting your hp from shield ulti, oftentimes you'll use it on 1 person to catch him and then not have it up for the main fight, people zhonya/pool just before you ulti etc. Also especially early midgame you'll have fights where your ultimate is on cooldown, which is why haunting guise is so nice; ruby crystal is a really good build path for that reason.
So yes, resists are better on her than on most champions, hp still necessary though.
Well, I was thinking if you wanted to donate blue to your mid right off the bat an early tear might work, and spamming Q means you stack it super quick-- plus, the muramana proc on a 1.5 sec cooldown felt like it could be pretty strong, and your passive mana regen makes it so the mana depletion doesn't matter as much.
On July 03 2013 08:02 Scip wrote: Yeah, you don't really have that many mana problems, not enough to justify getting tear at all, it just makes you so much weaker. Yes, theoretically focusing on resists is better, which is part of why Zhonyas is so good on her, but you can't rely on getting your hp from shield ulti, oftentimes you'll use it on 1 person to catch him and then not have it up for the main fight, people zhonya/pool just before you ulti etc. Also especially early midgame you'll have fights where your ultimate is on cooldown, which is why haunting guise is so nice; ruby crystal is a really good build path for that reason.
So yes, resists are better on her than on most champions, hp still necessary though.
Especially with how her base health pool is a bit low compared to most melee champions.
I'm not sure about Rylai's - I guess you'd get a reasonable slow on your E, and otherwise you're just exacerbating the 'never get away from me' nature of Q spam.
On July 03 2013 09:45 ticklishmusic wrote: Well, I was thinking if you wanted to donate blue to your mid right off the bat an early tear might work, and spamming Q means you stack it super quick-- plus, the muramana proc on a 1.5 sec cooldown felt like it could be pretty strong, and your passive mana regen makes it so the mana depletion doesn't matter as much.
You don't get the muramana proc on a 1.5 sec CD. Muramana only procs on single target abilities. Hate spike is AOE. You'll get 2 muramana procs off of Ravage (E) and other than that, you only proc with your autoattacks.
On July 03 2013 09:45 ticklishmusic wrote: Well, I was thinking if you wanted to donate blue to your mid right off the bat an early tear might work, and spamming Q means you stack it super quick-- plus, the muramana proc on a 1.5 sec cooldown felt like it could be pretty strong, and your passive mana regen makes it so the mana depletion doesn't matter as much.
You can donate 2nd blue buff and every subsequent blue to your middle laner and not have significant mana problems.
I do get rylais sometimes, specifically if I want my hp item and have saved up 1000 for giants belt and am not worried about enemy magic damage THAT much. More often I actually go for aegis to cover my hp needs though.
also this guide is hooooooorrrrrribly outdated, I guess Ill write something tommorow
Scip, what's your backup plan on Eve when not many opportunities arise for ganks (i.e., your laners are pushing hard or are losing miserably?). Is there an "abort" build for when you don't snowball? I find that when I have room to chase people down during ganks, I usually get plenty of kills and snowball hard. But when I can't find those openings, it gets really hard to stay relevant even against squishies. Do you just go Aegis/Abyssal or something and try to just stay in the middle of their team with your ult? Do you still try to take their AD or whoever out of the fight for as long as you can?
If I utterly fail to snowball I'd go Lizard Elder, Haunting Guise and probably Aegis, but if they have no magic damage of interest to me I might go Locket instead. It's not a bad idea to get Ninja Tabi or in case of heavy magic dmg and CC Merc Treads either. You will kind of have to deal with doing less damage in the mid and lategame, but despite getting those tanky items if I got 1600+ gold by chance I'd still go for zhonyas.
I rarely go for the AD carry with Eve, maybe lategame once I have Zhonyas and know I'll get a reset while I am encased in gold, but rushing an AD carry that's not out of position is an amazingly good way of getting yourself killed. You have massive damage and no jumps, better use yourself to just focus the same targets as your team, you can chase people once the enemy team is routed and you have your reset.
On July 03 2013 22:25 Sakray wrote: Well, I was wondering, what does IBG means ?
Iceborn Gauntlet aka Frozen Fist, the thing blue ezrael is so annoying with.
Do you guys think spellvamp quints are worth it on jungle eve ? I´m running 3 atm and the sustain is pretty nice. I havent done any serious testing, but I feel that I can stay way longer in the jungle before my 1st back, if for example 1st gank isnt succesful. Ofc you sacrifice a lot, so I was wondering if they are worth it.
Do you guys think spellvamp quints are worth it on jungle eve ? I´m running 3 atm and the sustain is pretty nice. I havent done any serious testing, but I feel that I can stay way longer in the jungle before my 1st back, if for example 1st gank isnt succesful. Ofc you sacrifice a lot, so I was wondering if they are worth it.
Eve has some problem with the first jungle route, not that bad anyway (i always have almost full hp and 1-2 potion left); after the first back (i usually back when i can afford tier 1 boots+ spirit stone) your SV quints become useless in comparison with 3 AP flat quints. Furthermore you are an assassin so you must have the max output damage and not sustain. You can gain sustain with more usefull item than quints.
Spirit Stone isn't really enough on its own to keep Eve's health high, especially if you're going for Lizard Elder over Spectral Wraith (which, while funny for Smite heals, is not the best option for Eve jungle). You either need another source of sustain, or to plan around ganking with either a chunk of missing health or after you've backed.
On July 04 2013 03:26 Seuss wrote: Spirit Stone isn't really enough on its own to keep Eve's health high, especially if you're going for Lizard Elder over Spectral Wraith (which, while funny for Smite heals, is not the best option for Eve jungle). You either need another source of sustain, or to plan around ganking with either a chunk of missing health or after you've backed.
I definitely don't gank more than once per bluepill when I'm on Evelynn jungle . I think passing up the Liz + Liandry rush for anything else is no good.
Misaya gets Tear in lane as Eve but I would definitely not do it as a jungle because you get significantly less farm. You have no actual issues charging it and Seraphs is actually pretty nice on Eve but the timing of the item in jungle makes it tougher.
I definitely wouldn't rush liandrys, it delays your Zhonyas or in case of no tank/strong incentives for more tankiness in your team Aegis too much while not actually providing that much dmg. It's not even like Eve has any sort of synergy with Liandrys whatsoever. Liandrys is best on poking champs who can apply it during sieges which is something Eve is absolutely unable to do.
Yeah, I can see tear being good on a lane Eve. I have no idea, but it's very possible. No way it is even close to viable in jungle though.
Really liking IBG on Eve. The Q->E->auto->Q is a great little burst combo.
Possibly dumb question, but what spells are people running on Eve? Jungling I go Smite/ Flash, but I'm really thinking about ghost or maybe even exhaust/cleanse instead of flash for more sticking power. I know its an artifact of playing a lot of support, but I believe exhaust is superior to ignite in most cases.
Interesting with tear on lane Eve. When does he get it and how does he use it? I mean, does he like clearing wraiths a lot instead of roaming or something?
On July 04 2013 20:36 Argoth. wrote: Anyone tried running Smite/Ignite and playing a heavy invade style against weak duelist junglers?
Who plays bad duelist junglers nowadays? The worst duelist you can see in the jungle nowadays is Nasus and it's been such a long time I'm not seeing him and even if I face Nasus as jungle Eve, I should be able to go on a field day regardless of taking flash or ignite.
On July 04 2013 18:38 Blyf wrote: Interesting with tear on lane Eve. When does he get it and how does he use it? I mean, does he like clearing wraiths a lot instead of roaming or something?
I forget but I don't think he did anything different. Seraphs is very strong on Eve so I think it mostly played off that. Keep in mind, tourney play lane Eve really isn't going to outroam as much as in soloq since most opponents just stick a pink in lane and know if you MIA.
As for Ignite/Smite, I did it as a gimmick pre change Eve in jungle but it was mostly to cheese junglers. Now that jungling has evolved beyond that and Eve is a lot better, flash is just more stable.
On July 05 2013 20:06 Blyf wrote: Why is Seraphs very strong on Eve?
You are a squishy champ (generally assassin build) + you are a melee champ = most of the time you are focused by the enemy team. With Seraph you have 2 shields, your ulti and the item itself; a great boost to your sustainability in team fight
On July 05 2013 20:06 Blyf wrote: Why is Seraphs very strong on Eve?
You are a squishy champ (generally assassin build) + you are a melee champ = most of the time you are focused by the enemy team. With Seraph you have 2 shields, your ulti and the item itself; a great boost to your sustainability in team fight
But why would it be better than rod of ages for example? You need over 3k current mana for the shield from Seraph to beat the health from RoA. Because of her passive, I don't think Eve should have any mana problem after the laning phase, especially if she gets any mana items.
On July 05 2013 20:06 Blyf wrote: Why is Seraphs very strong on Eve?
You are a squishy champ (generally assassin build) + you are a melee champ = most of the time you are focused by the enemy team. With Seraph you have 2 shields, your ulti and the item itself; a great boost to your sustainability in team fight
But why would it be better than rod of ages for example? You need over 3k current mana for the shield from Seraph to beat the health from RoA. Because of her passive, I don't think Eve should have any mana problem after the laning phase, especially if she gets any mana items.
This is about lane Eve right? In that case you should get consistent blue buffs so most of the time mana won't be a problem, although with her current costs a mana item might be good if you are going for a heavy pushing strat. And if you disregard the mana, I think that rylais is still the best health option for Eve, especially if you are against adc's like ez or cait, who you probably won't catch up to with just R and W.
Edit: Also on the topic of liandry's: imo the best thing to do is to just sit on a guise, because otherwise you pay 1500 for 100 hp, 25 ap and a dot you will never use.
I show you the 2 item (my example is with Evelynn lvl 18 when your RoA is 100% full of his passive and you probably have a Seraph with full mana):
Rod of Ages: 450 Hp 450 Mana 80 AP
Seraph's Embrace: 1000 Mana +10 Mana Reg. almost 120 AP ( 60 AP from item and 30 AP each 1k Mana stacked, Evelyn at lvl 18 has 936 Mana so almost 2k mana)
And now why Seraph is better: - 40 more AP ( Much burst damage) - Mana reg. (I know maybe you say that is not so important in late game but we have to count anyway) - You dont need 3k mana to beat RoA HP in fact if you start fight with Seraph passive you will have: 20% of your current mana (if you have 2k mana its like 400 shield) + 150= 500-550 Shield in total > 450 Hp
Edit. If you played Eve in the right way its a extremly hungry mana champ, you must poke with your Q and avoid your enemy to farm, push the lane,etc.; in this way during the early-mid game you cant take a great advantage of your passive.
From my experience you only have mana issues when you can poke the opponent in lane. This is most of the time vs melee champs like Zed, Jayce or Khazix. If you get a tear in such matchups, wouldn't they just kill you? After all, you can't really farm safely from range like a lux or jayce nor do you get damage with it like ryze. And yes, I know that you can poke more, but in such situations, if you poke the zed will just ult you and then you are dead.
Imo you get a big powerspike when you get guise + sorc shoes, which will be quite delayed if you get a tear.
On July 05 2013 22:34 Fildun wrote: From my experience you only have mana issues when you can poke the opponent in lane. This is most of the time vs melee champs like Zed, Jayce or Khazix. If you get a tear in such matchups, wouldn't they just kill you? After all, you can't really farm safely from range like a lux or jayce nor do you get damage with it like ryze. And yes, I know that you can poke more, but in such situations, if you poke the zed will just ult you and then you are dead.
Imo you get a big powerspike when you get guise + sorc shoes, which will be quite delayed if you get a tear.
Probably you understimate your Q range, ok probably you will have more difficulty to poke champ like Lux,Xerath, Ryze( for his snare) but you can always harass your enemy with a smart strategy. Obviously we are always talking in case of equal skills players. In reference to melee champ like Zed & co., with Eve you can completly deny their farm or damage a lot with your Q pressure, your Q ALWAYS hit your enemy not like skillshot that can be avoided (Ex. Zed's Q) plus you have an incredible skill... your W!!! It's remove ALL slow you had and can avoid all melee fight and at the same time stay in range for your Q. From my experience champ like Zed,Khazix and others are a easy match-up for Eve. Btw 520 gold for tear worth it even if delay other items.
On July 05 2013 22:34 Fildun wrote: From my experience you only have mana issues when you can poke the opponent in lane. This is most of the time vs melee champs like Zed, Jayce or Khazix. If you get a tear in such matchups, wouldn't they just kill you? After all, you can't really farm safely from range like a lux or jayce nor do you get damage with it like ryze. And yes, I know that you can poke more, but in such situations, if you poke the zed will just ult you and then you are dead.
Imo you get a big powerspike when you get guise + sorc shoes, which will be quite delayed if you get a tear.
Probably you understimate your Q range, ok probably you will have more difficulty to poke champ like Lux,Xerath, Ryze( for his snare) but you can always harass your enemy with a smart strategy. Obviously we are always talking in case of equal skills players. In reference to melee champ like Zed & co., with Eve you can completly deny their farm or damage a lot with your Q pressure, your Q ALWAYS hit your enemy not like skillshot that can be avoided (Ex. Zed's Q) plus you have an incredible skill... your W!!! It's remove ALL slow you had and can avoid all melee fight and at the same time stay in range for your Q. From my experience champ like Zed,Khazix and others are a easy match-up for Eve. Btw 520 gold for tear worth it even if delay other items.
Hmmm, I'll try it next time I play eve mid. Still, zed is a freewin and imo you can stomp him even harder if you go full offensive, assuming you can get blues. And lategame I'd rather have a DFG or zhonya active than a 500 hp shield, assuming you don't rush head-first into a teamfight.
On July 05 2013 22:22 ShowBitz wrote: I show you the 2 item (my example is with Evelynn lvl 18 when your RoA is 100% full of his passive and you probably have a Seraph with full mana):
Rod of Ages: 450 Hp 450 Mana 80 AP
Fully stacked RoA gives 650 Hp and 650 mana.
On July 05 2013 22:22 ShowBitz wrote:
Seraph's Embrace: 1000 Mana +10 Mana Reg. almost 120 AP ( 60 AP from item and 30 AP each 1k Mana stacked, Evelyn at lvl 18 has 936 Mana so almost 2k mana)
And now why Seraph is better: - 40 more AP ( Much burst damage) - Mana reg. (I know maybe you say that is not so important in late game but we have to count anyway) - You dont need 3k mana to beat RoA HP in fact if you start fight with Seraph passive you will have: 20% of your current mana (if you have 2k mana its like 400 shield) + 150= 500-550 Shield in total > 450 Hp
Seraph gives more AP, I can't argue here. I missed the fact that the shield had a flat 150 hp. Unless with both missed something else, it means RoA will always give more survavibility. Your maths say you'll get 550 in the best case (and using the shield before any other spells is beyond stupid) which is less than RoA.
You have no window in lane to get a RoA with Evelynn because you need guise and zhonyas. Seraphs is something you can finish up as soon as the tears is stacked and it gives you a huge boost at once. On top of that, Eve is already really good at converting mana to damage.
Seraph gives more AP, I can't argue here. I missed the fact that the shield had a flat 150 hp. Unless with both missed something else, it means RoA will always give more survavibility. Your maths say you'll get 550 in the best case (and using the shield before any other spells is beyond stupid) which is less than RoA.
99% of the time when you reveal in a fight all enemy team (if they arent stupid) start to focus you so probably you can take the max advantage of the Seraph's passive cause you will use it immediately. Anyway in most case you shield yourself with a 500 shield, not bad uh? Also you have to remember that my example is with Evelyn at lvl 18. Try take a Catalyst (1200 gold) or a Tear (700) and see which one is the more usefull during the early-mid game
Maybe you are right, im not a pro so its only my opinion; i just say that in my experience Seraph's is a more suitable item for Eve. Good luck! :D
Funny with all this talk about mana regen and health items on Eve. I see how mana can help, but generally if I am low on mana I am also low on health, which means I have to back anyways.
If the game has a lot of action early I usually go for a really early pair of homeguard boots, as in first item after flask. That will get you back to mid lane so fast after a gank and with full hp/mana. In that case, I find any kind of regen a waste and just rush pure dmg (dfg, dcap, lich bane) for fast wave clear and high kill potential.
On July 10 2013 08:49 mordek wrote: Just ran eve jungle without 9 in utility instead of defense. It was horrible lol.
Why did you feel it was so bad? I find that staying safer in my first clear with the defense tree is way better when every game has a Nunu/Lee Sin/Elise/Jarvan on the other team and I get counterjungled nonstop.
I don't think that's what he means with the sentence. I can be interpreted both ways either it is "Just ran eve jungle with 9 in utility instead of defense" OR "Just ran even jungle without 9 in utility taking defense instead" w/ and w/o can get confused quite easily.
Wow, sorry guys, lost my train of focus when making that post. Thanks for clarifying Scip. I totally meant I used 9 in utility on accident and I was so low the entire first clear. There was no way I could make any plays without going back to base before getting enough for spirit stone even. I was inspired by Scip's posts and trying to get the hang of jungle eve and felt like sharing my folly
Reasons to play Eve: Can farm very fast, although not that safely Can still play aggressively if the lanes are prone to ganks Stealth = sex Scales pretty well into the lategame if you play properly The only top tier assassiny jungle atm She wears only her underwear
ok that's enough. When to pick Eve: Currently one of the strongest junglers, a viable first pick Comboes especially well with AoE comps that she does amazingly with in teamfights Also works in splitpush comps where she can work kinda like nocturne, constantly threaten an engage on either side. Due to being super strong it is a fine idea to pick her first and then building a teamcomp around her depending on what the enemy picks. She has problems against hard CC, especially long lasting stuff like Rammus+Fiddle. Remains a viable fp, though if you see those picks you might (or might not) reconsider, she is still fine against them. Skills (I will include all relevant info like mana cost/cd/range/way it works in the finished guide): Passive: Q: Mash that button for sweet sweet dmg. High mana cost. Nothing special here to say I think except explaining how it chooses its target? Maxed 1st. W: Using this reveals you to, so wait to use it until you're up close. Save it up if you expect to get slowed. Maxed 2nd because you don't get to autoattack that much really so levels in E aren't really awesome. E: dmg+attack speed, maxed last, used alongside autoattacks. Nothing special to say I think, use it at the start of a fight and then again whenever it goes off cd. R: Your only CC. The slow is pretty pathetic at lvl1, so be careful about that. Use in ganks for that CC or save it up if you think you can get a kill without using it (the cd is long) or expect a countergank you can defeat with it. Use it to initiate teamfights from basically out of vision, works if enemy is clumped up or someone is out of position. Comboes well with other AoEs.
Setup:
Masteries: 21/9/0 (exactly what Diamondprox uses, with an option for bladed armor instead of +2armor I guess, but meh. +2armor probably better). Don't think anything else is useable? Runes: AD reds, Armor Yellows, Mres/Flat AP Blues (depending on circumstance, though I vastly prefer the latter Diamondprox seems to favour the former), flat AP quints (don't think you can even use anything else here) Summoners: Flash+Smite, no gimmicks. It's not like flash is bad in fights if you use it to dodge skillshots.
Skill order: QEWQQR R>Q>W>E, no compromises or reasons to ever do anything different here.
Items: Machete+5 start. Spirit Stone+Boots1 on first back if possible. Buy pots liberally (you have no sustain in hp department). First item is definitely Elder Lizard. Then it can get a bit diverse. Boots can be Sorcs (the default ones), Ninja/Mercs in case of overwhelming amount of dmg on either spectrum, Mobo boots (does anyone ever buy those? I Don't want to include them because they seem a bit retarded but meh.. if they are widely popular why not I guess). Items can be gotten next or delayed depending on circumstances. The most usual 2nd item is Haunting Guise, for maximum dmg output. Evelynn doesn't really have very good AP ratios so Mpen suits her way better.
If you find yourself needing a tank, perhaps because you didn't pick correctly (or you planned to do this from the very start, hey, Eve isn't bad when built tanky either) you should probably forego Haunting guise and have Elder Lizard as your sole dmg item. The best tanky items for Eve are Aegis and Locket. both provide nice amounts of hp (that remains very useful despite your ultimate) while providing aura for your teammates (and hell, everyone knows these items are OP). Then you can build the standard stuff. Randuins, Bulwark, all that stuff.
If you don't find yourself needing a tank, building more damage is just fine. After Lizard and Haunting Guise, Sorc boots are the natural follow up. Then you are faced with 2 choices: either Zhonyas or Rylais next. All depends on how teamfights are going, if you expect to be able to do anything after coming back from gold Zhonyas is the preffered choice, but if you just don't seem to be able to save up that 1600 for NLR or you are doing just fine picking off people without being overly focused on Rylais it is. You WILL need that tankiness from either item, you can trust me that. After getting either, getting the other one is generally the way to go. Other dmg choices: Abyssal (VERY VERY rarely, only if their magic dmg is super overwhelming, you have a lot of other magic dmg on your team and you arent getting focused on all that much), Locket/Aegis (surviving=more dmg), Guardian Angel (a fine last item if the game is that long. Also, wtf is the game that long?). Since Eve doesn't have very good AP ratios and there aren't really any great AD items on her (lifesteal is useless so no-go for BT, her dmg is still mostly magic so LW is dumb) building damage after Haunting/Lizard/Rylais/Zhonyas is really awkward, with the exception of Void staff, which is quite situational (only when enemies have a ton of mres).
Jungling: Start at either buff, then get the other one. Press E, autoattack, keep pressing Q. Easy game easy life. Ganking: Creativity gogogo. You can walk up behind them and then reveal yourself if they dont have pinks. Watch closely where pinks go. If you don't think a gnak will succeed, just keep farming, Eve is really good at farming. I guess I'd point out all the different paths you can take while ganking. Counterganks: Getting counterganked sucks on Eve, because you are squishy early game and enemy can easily focus you down. Generally, if there is a threat of countergank, don't gank. A successful countergank is about 3 times as devastating as a successful gank. The scenario is different if you are the one doing the counterganking. As Eve you can get unusually good positions for counterganking and you can't get focused down since you come into the fight a bit later, after a few cds are used up. Counterganking is a good idea on Eve if you are fairly sure the enemy jungler is going to gank a place (or even better, if you are completely sure)
Midgame: Due to being squishy, you don't do dragon nor baron very well. Also, you can easily run out of mana doing them spamming Q every second or 2, so that's another concern. Evelynn ganks with your ultimate on bottom lane should be strong enough to send the enemy back to base, giving you the time to do dragon, so that's your main focus from lvls 6-8 (depending on your strenght). If the enemy is stronger and the enemy jungler is playing it well, focusing on bottom lane around the same period of time as you are, it might be wise to trade dragon for top tower. You might very well find enemy top laner being overaggresive around this time and easily kill him+net a tower. You will probably get a kill and top tower, they will get dragon and bottom tower, but hey, when you are behind it's probably better than dicking around bottom doing bollocksall.
After drake is down, chaos ensues. Incredible plays, epic fights and stupid shit happens because all objectives are evenly spread out around the map now. Do your best to keep up with the enemy and focus on lanes where enemy outer towers haven't fallen yet.
Lategame: If you were wise and went alongside AoE comp just as I told you to, your lategame plan is pretty simple. Get control around baron, have your support buy oracles (and maybe get a few wards of your own you greedy bastard) and start baiting. The good time to start doing that is at AROUND 12 (roughly) when all enemy outer towers are down. If all enemy outer towers fall before that, it's probably better to keep farming and doing things aorund towers because baron will still cave your skull in at lvl9 or so. Jungle is tight so forcing a fight around there with an AoE teamcomp is brutal. Easy game easy life. If you went with the splitpush comp you just stay off the enemy map. Splitpushing mid+something is especially good with Eve since you can travel between lanes then. Enemy can't really engage on either person unless they want to coinflip. Sometimes you can dive the enemy solo, if you can do that and tell your 3 to fall back as fast as they can, sometimes you can fight 4v4 and sometimes you can collapse on fools who travel between lanes. I trust you can use your own judgment when splitpushing, it's not that Eve specific after all. If you went with any other teamcomp, there isn't any cookie cutter strat I can offer you just USE YOUR OWN JUDGMENT GOD FKIN DAMMIT it's not that hard. You can bait baron without an AoE comp just fine and you can push lanes without splitpushing just fine etc. If you are behind, and can't be aggresive in any of these ways: Well, you have no waveclear and no poke. Whether they are sieging or baiting nash, you can't do jack except for engaging. So stay back unless you think a time for engage has come, and dear god make sure to dodge poke (ITS YOUR ONLY JOB AS OF NOW). Whether time for engage has come is up to you. Press R, press W and hope you chose the right time.
Teamfights: use your ult at the VERY VERY start of the teamfight. No use saving it up for 2+ seconds. If you don't have Zhonyas AND they don't have an AoE comp, you probably want to just focus the target everyone else is focusing and pick up your W reset asap. If it is an AoE comp, it is probably a good idea to spread them out not just sideways, but deep; you won't help your teammates survive by staying close to them, so heroic charge it probably is (OR waiting in the back for prolonger amount of time. Can be appropriate sometimes). If you have Zhonyas AND you know you can chase off the enemy carry and still have your team close enough after 2s of gold to help you out, go for it. If not, do the same as above.
Teammates and Enemies: AoE and splitpush works well as I mentioned, anything else works well too though, it's just less cookie cutter and more thought. Enemies are hard CC that can be focused on you, but it's not that bad. AoE kinda sucks to go against too but it's workable. No super strong enemies and versatility make you a viable first pick.
any comments/questions/criticisms
NOTE: THIS IS JUNGLE EVE GUIDE. Idc is Tear is legit on lane Eve or not because it doesn't concern this guide.
Skill order: QEWQQR Q>W>E>R, no compromises or reasons to ever do anything different here.
Did you mean R>Q>W>E instead?
Since Eve doesn't have very good AP ratios and there aren't really any great AD items on her (...) building tankiness after Haunting/Lizard/Rylais/Zhonyas is really awkward.
This one's confusing too, did you mean "isn't really awkward" (since you talk about building her as a tank earlier)?
thanks Alaric, both were slipups; in the second one I meant to say that building damage is awkward (apart from void staff that I should mention I suppose)
Don't think Eve has any mechanical ones; all her skills are fairly simple. As far as decision making goes, obviously, I should probably include ganking paths in the skeleton too but that'll have to wait for the night
On July 11 2013 03:43 wei2coolman wrote: No Venn Diagram; not convinced.
Has to find more champs wearing only underwear.
Pantheon obv. Nami?
Maybe detailing a bit more on Rylai vs Zhonya in the final guide? I see most of the people building the former just repeating "But it slows so you can chase and they won't avoid your damage, it's so good!" when outside of laning phase (where killing before they reach tower is important) your W's passive is usually enough to keep up with anyone, and if you can get Rylai during the laning phase then you're probably hugely fed anyway, which made me ignore the argument as misguided. If there's more to it maybe clarify/detail it so readers get a better grasp?
I haven't read many Eve guides but I don't see the splitpushing/punishing splitters mentioned often so that's an important point to make I feel, often neglected (never thought about it myself before reading your skeleton).
Sorry, too tired to edit into the skeleton now, will do so tommorow, but to quickly adress your points: Why go Rylais at all: Thking about it it's not necessarily a must have item in the teamfight focused comps where actually getting more tankiness (Zhonyas) would be better. When splitpushing though, it matters a lot more how quickly you can chase someone down and over how much distance you have to chase him before you kill him, ESPECIALLY if you dive the solo lanes or do similiar shenanigans So Ill make this importnat distinction, thanks for bringing it to my attnetion. I guess I'll expand on more specific things (especially champion picks) for the splitpushing thing tommorow, but the general idea is that you have people who can disengage 3vx pretty easily (Janna works the best, Lulu, Jayce, etc.) which allows you to stay nearby one of the lanes being pushed and engage on either the 3 (if they decide to 2-3) or the 1 (if they decide to 1-4) in an opportune moment.
I buy mobo boots on some champs, but definitely not Eve. I dunno, I guess it would be fine, but generally when I want to move fast, I press W and that's fast enough, and when I want to mana regen, I don't really care exactly how fast I'm moving, or I would press W.
Spirit of the elder lizard: still the best item to rush on jungle Eve? Seems the euro pros still do it but haven't seen many Koreans get anything past spirit stone.
On July 11 2013 17:15 Scip wrote: I've never seen anyone not get Lizard first and I don't know what could be better. What do korean pros rush then?
Sorry I only based this off a game I saw the other night (and I don't have OGN sub) but their Eve only had a spirit stone. He did have Liandry's and abyssal so I assume he went one of those first.
i seem to hit an awkward 3rd/4th item timing after sorcs and lizard where i don't know whether to get guise or not, and then don't know where to go after that. making the 1600 for NLR is so hard (for dfg)
On July 20 2013 10:08 ShaLLoW[baY] wrote: i seem to hit an awkward 3rd/4th item timing after sorcs and lizard where i don't know whether to get guise or not, and then don't know where to go after that. making the 1600 for NLR is so hard (for dfg)
Is this in the jungle? I find it pretty hard to justify dfg out of the jungle on Eve when Zhonya's helps you do your job so much better. There is a little bit of a tough build up to a NLR, but it's worth it to actually be able to get into position to get your aoe on multiple targets without getting blown up instantly. Guise is just really good on Eve, though -- otherwise, you can get Aegis if no one else is and still be useful.
interesting, I wasn't getting zhonyas at all to be honest. it sounds like a no brainer. still the rough few minutes when you're at ~1k gold and waiting for your rod
After spirit and sorc you should go zhonya or abyss depending on their team comp. If your fed you can go for rod or wand first, but I don't ever do that even when fed in plat. I hardly ever have time for guise. It would be my 5th item choice, n ut games are done by then usually. Hell, I hardly ever complete 3 items : / game is just too snowbally right now.
On July 11 2013 17:15 Scip wrote: I've never seen anyone not get Lizard first and I don't know what could be better. What do korean pros rush then?
Sorry I only based this off a game I saw the other night (and I don't have OGN sub) but their Eve only had a spirit stone. He did have Liandry's and abyssal so I assume he went one of those first.
I think if you math it out, the 30AP + %currentHP magic damage burn on Liandry is comparable to 35AD + True Damage burn +10% CDR + regen on Lizard, and actually costs more (1400 to go guise->liandry, 1300 to go stone->Lizard)
I'd need to math it out more thoroughly, it's likely it actually depends on MR/health numbers.
Since this got bumped, I thought I'd mention that I don't really favour Zhonyas all that much anymore, I've had more success just build tanky after Lizard Elder+Haunting Guise+(maybe)Sorc Boots. The thing is that instead of diving deep you can try helping kill the actual target to get your reset. I still might get it against an AoE team with significant amount of physical damage, but that doesn't happen very often :3
Hey guys, I've been trying jungle eve out recently but even if I get fed I can't seem to build correctly (I kinda blow up in teamifghts). Been going machete-->spiritstone and boots-->mobos/sotEL-->abyssal. Should I just go aegis after sotEL? or even spirit of the ancient golem with aegis?
Abyssal is pretty bad on Eve imo, I mean resistances are pretty nice but you do need some HP. Haunting Guise is just way more cost effective at the point when you need it the most (fight for 2nd dragon, 3v3s on bottom lane, dives and counterganks on dives..) Also, mobilities are bad, I know koreans build them n stuff but I don't care, they bad on everyone ON EVERYONE. Especially on junglers who benefit so much from sorc boots (= Eve+Elise) So the build I'd reccomend is Spirit Stone+Boots1 -> SotEL+Boots1 -> SotEL+Sorc+Haunting Guise -> other stuff (Locket, Spirit Visage, maybe Zhonyas, perhaps a Void Staff later). You can replace Sorcs with Mercs if the tenacity and mres will help you a lot.
On August 07 2013 15:56 Scip wrote: Abyssal is pretty bad on Eve imo, I mean resistances are pretty nice but you do need some HP. Haunting Guise is just way more cost effective at the point when you need it the most (fight for 2nd dragon, 3v3s on bottom lane, dives and counterganks on dives..) Also, mobilities are bad, I know koreans build them n stuff but I don't care, they bad on everyone ON EVERYONE. Especially on junglers who benefit so much from sorc boots (= Eve+Elise) So the build I'd reccomend is Spirit Stone+Boots1 -> SotEL+Boots1 -> SotEL+Sorc+Haunting Guise -> other stuff (Locket, Spirit Visage, maybe Zhonyas, perhaps a Void Staff later). You can replace Sorcs with Mercs if the tenacity and mres will help you a lot.
I'll try that, thanks. Are mobos really considered to be that bad? Seems that the extra movespeed is pretty awesome.
I don't know if they are considered bad, but for what it's worth I do consider them to be very bad. Before anyone jumps on me because Helios built Abyssal right after Lizard, that was because he had both Vlad and Ryze on his team (massive magic AoEs)
On August 07 2013 21:20 Scip wrote: I don't know if they are considered bad, but for what it's worth I do consider them to be very bad. Before anyone jumps on me because Helios built Abyssal right after Lizard, that was because he had both Vlad and Ryze on his team (massive magic AoEs)
I went sorcs into rylais into haunting guise into chainmail/negatron and did WAY more this game. Great tip Scip. EDIT: Another question: how would I follow up from my build? It feels that when I have sotEL,sorcs, haunting guise and Rylais I got a weird build path. What do you guys recommend to build after that? Like vs heavy AD, vs heavy AP, what kind of build paths would you guys recommend?
Mobos are great for what they do. What they do is give you incredible roaming and lane-swapping potential, and some extra initiating power. What they don't do is basically anything else, so you better be prepared to abuse that. On junglers I don't think I'd ever buy mobos because a large chunk of your travel time is going to be spent hitting creeps, minimizing the benefit of the mobos. I do buy them on Malphite, Maokai, and other initiators who just need to get in range for one spell, then don't really care too much after that.
sorry for the digression just wanted to spread some mobolove
On August 08 2013 04:11 Tooplark wrote: Mobos are great for what they do. What they do is give you incredible roaming and lane-swapping potential, and some extra initiating power. What they don't do is basically anything else, so you better be prepared to abuse that. On junglers I don't think I'd ever buy mobos because a large chunk of your travel time is going to be spent hitting creeps, minimizing the benefit of the mobos. I do buy them on Malphite, Maokai, and other initiators who just need to get in range for one spell, then don't really care too much after that.
sorry for the digression just wanted to spread some mobolove
Eve is also an initiator, but her W is pretty damn good so I don't think she needs them. Also, KT Kakao gets a crystalline flask after spirit stone and boots 1. Thoughts? Eve takes a lot of damage in the jungle so you need to buy 1-2 pots every single time you back to be high hp throughout the game. Crystalline flask would be a reasonably affordable option to get rid of this annoying cost throughout the game. Discuss.
Been testing flask but it seems that Eve does really well with getting maximum power from each buy; instead of investing into something "safe" that'll provide savings in the long run; in my experience she snowballs REALLY hard in a positive sense so it makes sense to capitalise on that.
Flask is a standard item for me, my first buy is often 1. spirit stone 2. flask 3. boots. If i cannot afford all 3 i'll get flask over boots. If I'm really fed I'll get a catalyst instead of a flask, and build that into a ROA later for my early sutain. You need to take advantage of your fast clear speed as Evelynn, pots/flask is just essential early on if you want to farm some jungle between ganks, getting gold from your jungle also allows you to try to give kills to your laners and still keep up in items/levels so you don't just get blown up in later teamfights.
Also, about boots, I use to buy mobi boots on evelynn and they are fine but I do not build then anymore as I favor sorce boots for the extra mpen. I found that early ganks for evelynn are more about patience, timing, being very careful about where you gank(you are squishy and a counter-gank can wreck you). Mobi boots are for gank happy champs like Jarvan IV, Maokai and such (It allows them to just blast past enemy wards and pull of the gank with sheer move speed and gap closers) This is of course not necessary as Evelynn. Your ability to initiate teamfights is also not compromised with sorce boots due again to your stealth.
On August 14 2013 23:38 Meatpuppet wrote: Flask is a standard item for me, my first buy is often 1. spirit stone 2. flask 3. boots. If i cannot afford all 3 i'll get flask over boots. If I'm really fed I'll get a catalyst instead of a flask, and build that into a ROA later for my early sutain. You need to take advantage of your fast clear speed as Evelynn, pots/flask is just essential early on if you want to farm some jungle between ganks, getting gold from your jungle also allows you to try to give kills to your laners and still keep up in items/levels so you don't just get blown up in later teamfights.
Also, about boots, I use to buy mobi boots on evelynn and they are fine but I do not build then anymore as I favor sorce boots for the extra mpen. I found that early ganks for evelynn are more about patience, timing, being very careful about where you gank(you are squishy and a counter-gank can wreck you). Mobi boots are for gank happy champs like Jarvan IV, Maokai and such (It allows them to just blast past enemy wards and pull of the gank with sheer move speed and gap closers) This is of course not necessary as Evelynn. Your ability to initiate teamfights is also not compromised with sorce boots due again to your stealth.
Rod on eve? Seems like it would take too long to finish from the jungle. And kinda questionable why you want the health from rod, you are invis and shouldnt be tanking a whole bunch of damage anyway.
Why definitely? Evelynn benefits from all the stats RoA gives, there are many ap caster champs that like to build RoA, Guise, and even Rylais.(Orianna comes to mind here). These items are also built on ranged ap casters, if the hp is useful to them it should be even more useful to Evelynn, who is melee.
RoA is often not built on junglers I understand, mainly because RoA is thought of as an item built for early lane sustain that later evolves into lategame durability. In practice the item is phenomenal when I build it, and mind you I only build the catalyst if I get fed early. i.e. When after my first base I notice I have 1600+ gold and I'm still only lvl 5 and jungle creeps still hurt me.
It's not about whether or not the item is good or if Eve uses the item effectively. It's about what's most optimal. As jungle eve, you simply cannot rely on having enough gold to buy RoA at a timing that's most efficient. Even then, there are many parts of RoA that are wasted. For one, Eve doesn't need the mana nor the passive and a good chunk of the cost of RoA is in that.
You're better off getting your tanky stats from Guise and other, cheaper, sources of health/resists.
She doesn't need the passive for jungle sustain and the usefulness of the mana is questionable at best; you aren't really going to run out of mana after lvl12 or so (because of your base mana getting pretty high) which is about the time when RoA would start charging. It's a pretty terrible item on Eve.
I'm on a business trip atm and can't test, but could there be any merit in ad jungle (or mid I guess) Eve with sorc boots? Ad scaling on her abilities, huge attack speed boost, easy triforce procs, elder lizard is core on her anyways...basically magic damage with spells with hardhitting autos in between, could go hybrid pen instead of standard (?) ad reds, ap quints. Thoughts?
On October 24 2013 13:57 ShaLLoW[baY] wrote: I'm on a business trip atm and can't test, but could there be any merit in ad jungle (or mid I guess) Eve with sorc boots? Ad scaling on her abilities, huge attack speed boost, easy triforce procs, elder lizard is core on her anyways...basically magic damage with spells with hardhitting autos in between, could go hybrid pen instead of standard (?) ad reds, ap quints. Thoughts?
Me first: This could actually be good in mid, triforce-bork into pen could go well in the mid but chances are you won't have enough money for this in the jungle, unless you're hyperfed (in that case, going diamond build -lizard into sorc shoes dfg into abyssal&zhonyas into anything will do a good burst and you will still be deceptively tanky in the late game).
Probably not as good for two reasons, melee carrys always have a hard time (even with CC removal) and her ult doesn't scale at all from AD (you really need that shield).
The shield from her ult doesn't scale from AP either. But part of why she's so strong is becuse of the sheer dps from hate spikes, while her W gives her the MS to chase or run from people. It's easier to run in circles around somebody an dkite him, then it'd be if you had to rely on auto and triforce procs (like I'd see no point in BotRK for example.
On October 24 2013 15:37 miicah wrote: Probably not as good for two reasons, melee carrys always have a hard time (even with CC removal) and her ult doesn't scale at all from AD (you really need that shield).
On October 24 2013 18:54 Alaric wrote: The shield from her ult doesn't scale from AP either.
You receive a flat amount of shield per enemy champion hit, it only scales off of that and Agony's Embrace's level, not anything else.
On October 24 2013 15:37 miicah wrote: Probably not as good for two reasons, melee carrys always have a hard time (even with CC removal) and her ult doesn't scale at all from AD (you really need that shield).
The shield doesn't scale with ap though, just with how many people you hit. Also, you don't need to melee all if the time and could kite with q and w active/passive.
I think that bork would be decent because the %hp damage scales with attack speed, which she gets with e (and doesn't really need from the item, in a catch 22). She also doesn't need the active to chase, which is a huge part of the gold cost. I'm on the fence haha.
You said the shield was important, and the shield only scales off of the spell's level and the number of enemies hit. The AP ratio is only relevant for the damage dealt to each enemy hit, which has no direct link with the shield itself.
My favourite Eve trick is when I can kill top or bot, then go stand in their lane between their towers and kill them again when they come back. They just can't come back after being demoralised that much.
Yeah, and the 10 less AD on it as well. Sure, you get some bonus gold, but you need to clear the normal camps 36 times just to make up for the loss of 10 AD. Not much fun.
Right now, I'm thinking that maybe SotSW is going to be the best choice for Eve. The passive is pretty crappy, but 50 AP instead of 25 AD, and at least you won't need to buy any health potions when you have it.
Yeah, thought about going Lich Bane too, might be it's a good build. I've mostly been going Spectral Wraith, Zhonyas and tanky items. I really like tanky eve, very durable with the ultimate shield and with SW and Zhonyas or maybe a different damage item she still deals loads of damage. She can dodge damage too, kiting n stuff.
I've already won a teamfight once thanks to the instant shield on ult and I've played only like 5 eve games atm so yeah :D good stuff
On February 02 2014 03:32 -Zoda- wrote: Have you guys tried the new Diamond build, going for SotEL, BorK and defense items ? I noticed on probuilds he stills goes Q>E>W tho.
I think if E procced on hit it would be good but it doesnt so i dont like it tbh.
Is EVERYBODY going for more of an AD/tank build with Eve these days? I've been going spectral wraith/zhonya's/abyssal/rylai's/liandry's pretty much every game recently, and it's still really strong. I just feel like zhonya's is such a great item, as it allows you to dive in, ult as many people as possible, then zhonya's once your shield's gone.
I actually realized the other day: if you're going AD, why not straight up build triforce ? The only more or less useless stats would be the one coming from the zeal but the rest seems quite great. What do you guys think about it ? Not as a first item but if you're quite ahead and want more damage.
On October 24 2013 13:57 ShaLLoW[baY] wrote: I'm on a business trip atm and can't test, but could there be any merit in ad jungle (or mid I guess) Eve with sorc boots? Ad scaling on her abilities, huge attack speed boost, easy triforce procs, elder lizard is core on her anyways...basically magic damage with spells with hardhitting autos in between, could go hybrid pen instead of standard (?) ad reds, ap quints. Thoughts?
i was wondering about triforce/bork eve even before they changed her around to physical damage on E, had some success with it. getting the gold was the hardest part but with the new jungle gold changes even that isn't too bad, and each part of triforce has a reasonably price
But then aren't simply way too quishy considering you're a teamfighter and have dumped ~10k gold (2k jungle item, ~4k triforce, ~3k BotRK, ~1k boots) without any major defensive item? Even with the ult shield, you'll die quite fast if focused down.
I guess I could see a Triforce/BotRK build work if you only split push and never team fight, but I can't imagine it being very good. If you mean just triforce and not BotRK, I know Saint's tried it out a bit since season 3.
Edit: looks like Dan Dinh has been trying some BotRK/triforce builds, but I don't think he's a great Eve player.
But splitpushing on Eve doesn't make sense, she doesn't have anything on her that would make splitpushing with her good Allow me use a comparison to explain why I don't like Triforce+BotRK on Eve ok so there's exactly 1 champion on whom it is standard to go those items, and that's Jax. Jax takes them because he is amazing at dueling, so he invests into those items not just for the dmgs but to be able to dmg people. Thanks to his dueling power and escape abilities with Q he is a powerful splitpusher, which further pushes him in the direction of building damage. This damage build is nicely complimented by amazing innate survivability thanks to E and ultimate, which makes him survive quite a long time in teamfights. The hard CC on E allows Jax to apply his damage more reliably in teamfights as well.
While there are other, minor reasons why BotRK+Tri works on Jax, Evelynn lacks ALL of the things mentioned above. She sucks at dueling, she sucks at splitpushing, she doesn't have amazing innate survivability, she doesn't have hard CC and she doesn't have a jump. What the hell does Eve even have that synergizes with those items? Spammable Q is about it.
EPT
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I haven't had any problem to pick off a target by skirting around the edges of the fight, not showing myself and trying to come in at odd angles. I usually have to E to finish off tho but the enemy team never really turned on me, or not fast enough to plow through the shield and kill me before I got away.
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