EPTp.s. the current state of zvz is awesome.
[G] Zerg Tears - Page 14
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Rah
United States973 Posts
p.s. the current state of zvz is awesome. | ||
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Klamitya
Canada18 Posts
Do I think Terran is the hardest to beat? Heck yes. Did I still lol at this? Heck yes Good job =). | ||
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Creek
United States177 Posts
No need to rage. >  | ||
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WinHouse
Australia58 Posts
On August 07 2010 02:46 Rah wrote: SC2 zerg players definitly win the bitchiest race award. Most of the kids complaining won't be happy until they can win on equal bases through a chokepoint with no micro. Zerg still wins games you know, even when played sub par. All of the high level zerg losses I've seen (since the mech nerf and ultralisk buff) have been due to an error or missed oppertunity on the zerg players part. Then they blame imbalance because it's the cool thing to do now. It's really gotten out of control. p.s. the current state of zvz is awesome. Actually people bitch more about the bitching like you. | ||
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koppik
United States676 Posts
On August 07 2010 02:13 007Kain wrote: At the end of phase 1, we know that TvZ was "slightly Zerg favored" in the statistics for the top players. Near the end of phase 2, Browder said it was "50/50". When did blizzard release the last tvz win/loss% statistics and what did they look like? I´m really wondering why they havn´t patched something yet if its really so unplayable like so many people let it seem. But of course, Zerg players are way better than Terran and Protoss players at the same ELO. | ||
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Rah
United States973 Posts
On August 07 2010 02:50 WinHouse wrote: Actually people bitch more about the bitching like you. No bitching involved from me, my post is pointing out the current state of 1/3 the community, and just maybe bringing it more to their attention. Well less than 1/3rd now since half of them have moved on to being terrible terran players instead of terrible zerg players. Thanks for the rage though? Some people can't be reasoned with when it's easier to pass off blame. That's what got this "imbalance" crap going in the first place. | ||
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Grond
599 Posts
On August 06 2010 19:33 NicolBolas wrote: Did you ever play StarCraft 1, version 1.01 (the version shipped on the initial discs)? That version could legitimately be called, "StarCraft: Zerg rape everyone." You think larva spawn fast in SC2 with Spawn Larva? Imagine having larva spawning faster in SC1. Fast enough for a Zerg to effectively drone and produce units on one base. A one-basing Zerg in StarCraft 1. With a faster-growing Spawning Pool that only costs 150. No Corsairs to do scouting. No Medics. Just Zerg, one-base, killing everything. I remember it well. It was that way for quite a long time actually, until 1.04 that was released with Brood War. I have often wondered what percentage of Zerg players are recalling those days of Zerg glory and EZ mode autowin. I actually agree Terran is a little OP right now but the amount of whining is ridiculous. You could also make a solid argument that late game Zerg is OP. Any argument that something is OP would carry a lot more weight if it actually acknowledged there are 3 races in this game. Hilarious original post though, I love the Idralisk. | ||
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Sinborn
United States275 Posts
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WinHouse
Australia58 Posts
On August 07 2010 02:58 Rah wrote: No bitching involved from me, my post was only pointing out the current state of 1/3 the community, and maybe bringing it more to their attention. Well less than 1/3rd now since half of them have moved on to being terrible terran players instead of terrible zerg players. Thanks for the rage though? If thats not bitching then the Zergs arn't bitching you're doing exactly what your claiming them to be doing then claiming your action is somehow different. "Thanks for the rage" you are asuming I am raging? I guess which is funny because you seem to be doing the same thing but you are somehow not raging? To put it a bit better. You are complaining that zergs are complaining I'm just pointing out the the irony. | ||
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Rah
United States973 Posts
If thats not bitching then the Zergs arn't bitching you're doing exactly what your claiming them to be doing then claiming your action is somehow different. "Thanks for the rage" you are asuming I am raging? I guess which is funny because you seem to be doing the same thing but you are somehow not raging? To put it a bit better. You are complaining that zergs are complaining I'm just pointing out the the irony. I'm pointing out that zergs are making excuses for losses that are their own fault. And they're jumping on the imba bandwagon to save their egos. Simple as that. You make the game less fun for yourself by blaming imbalance rather than trying to get good at your race. It doesn't upset me at all, so there's no complaining involved here, just sharing my brilliant insight, trying to help some people who obviously need to step off the wagon and think about things straight for a change. Chill out and enjoy the game, rather than raging about a patch that isn't going to come until there's concrete data on Blizzard's end, not just raging zergs. Take the feedback however you want. I'm done getting trolled. =p | ||
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oxxo
988 Posts
Z is prob OP in TvZ mid-late game. Either way. The whining from Zs is ridiculous. | ||
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Logo
United States7542 Posts
On August 07 2010 03:12 Rah wrote: I'm pointing out that zergs are making excuses for losses that are their own fault. And they're jumping on the imba bandwagon to save their egos. Simple as that. You make the game less fun for yourself by blaming imbalance rather than trying to get good at your race. It doesn't upset me at all, so there's no complaining involved here, just sharing my brilliant insight, trying to help some people who obviously need to step off the wagon and think about things straight for a change. Chill out and enjoy the game, rather than raging about a patch that isn't going to come until there's concrete data on Blizzard's end, not just raging zergs. Take the feedback however you want. I'm done getting trolled. =p You act like they're mutually exclusive. I put a lot of work into my ZvT pretty much to the exclusion of putting effort into refining my tactics for the other matchups (my ZvP is suffering because of it). When I lose a game I know there are always things I could do better, but guess what, there's a lot that my opponent could also do better too as he's just as imperfect as me (arguably more so if his rating is inflated due to balance issues). Either way, even with constantly trying to improve, there's nothing that means someone can't also take the time to come and talk about the balance. The matchup isn't 100% Terran win, it's obviously something more like 70/30 or 60/40 so your losses are largely your own fault, but that doesn't mean it feels like you're going into the match with an even 50% chance to win. | ||
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Klamitya
Canada18 Posts
On August 07 2010 03:24 oxxo wrote: T is prob OP in TvZ early-mid game. Z is prob OP in TvZ mid-late game. Either way. The whining from Zs is ridiculous. We don't all whine =(. Just get frustrating - and I think everyone would be better off accepting that the game isn't perfect yet. Constructive criticism is nice. My major gripe isn't so much the balance as the feeling of helplessness. Ideal world imagination time! How *should* the zerg be played? Swarmy, overwhelming and dangerous. Right now I feel the best way to play is a series of Guerrilla warfare attacks. Spying and reacting. Is it fun now? Yeah! It's why I play zerg exclusively. But when I think long and hard about the "spirit" of the zerg.. it just doesn't mesh well with the current play style. To me at least. I miss the days of 1 supply roach. Zerg feel like an army that should be able to, in big numbers, overwhelm an opponent. Does this mean attack move into the face? Heck no. I'd put most of the blame on maps. It's just too easy at the moment to defend all the little chokes. This puts a large advantage for the Terrans aoe style long range armies. So in conclusion? My personal feelings are that the armies aren't as imba as some claim.. but the current state of the maps tend to favour Terrans. A handful of more open ramp matches may make we zerg lovers giddy again. And also larger armies! I'd gladly accept a roach damage or hp nerf in exchange for more regen and 1 supply. Not so we get a win button. But just for fun. TL;DR. Maps are more the issue then the races; roaches aren't as cool as they could be =) Not whining though! Just trying to think objectively about what can be done to make the most people happy as possible. | ||
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Itsarabbit
Sweden58 Posts
Example: You see a man who is dying of thirst, and you are holding a glass of water in your hand. He begs for it, and you give it to him. The next thing you do, is take the glass for him, just before he can get some of it. It's stupid, ignorant and idiotic. So why do you make them rage more? For the lulz, of course! and what does that make you? Stupid, ignorant and idiotic. Now, I don't mean this personally, but if you act like that, some people will get this impression. EDIT: However, if the Z is completely ignorant to tips and screams imba without listening to anyone, I guess it's fine. | ||
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jamesr12
United States1549 Posts
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Atticus.axl
United States456 Posts
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Logo
United States7542 Posts
On August 07 2010 03:35 Klamitya wrote: We don't all whine =(. Just get frustrating - and I think everyone would be better off accepting that the game isn't perfect yet. Constructive criticism is nice. My major gripe isn't so much the balance as the feeling of helplessness. Ideal world imagination time! How *should* the zerg be played? Swarmy, overwhelming and dangerous. Right now I feel the best way to play is a series of Guerrilla warfare attacks. Spying and reacting. Is it fun now? Yeah! It's why I play zerg exclusively. But when I think long and hard about the "spirit" of the zerg.. it just doesn't mesh well with the current play style. To me at least. I miss the days of 1 supply roach. Zerg feel like an army that should be able to, in big numbers, overwhelm an opponent. Does this mean attack move into the face? Heck no. I'd put most of the blame on maps. It's just too easy at the moment to defend all the little chokes. This puts a large advantage for the Terrans aoe style long range armies. So in conclusion? My personal feelings are that the armies aren't as imba as some claim.. but the current state of the maps tend to favour Terrans. A handful of more open ramp matches may make we zerg lovers giddy again. And also larger armies! I'd gladly accept a roach damage or hp nerf in exchange for more regen and 1 supply. Not so we get a win button. But just for fun. TL;DR. Maps are more the issue then the races; roaches aren't as cool as they could be =) Not whining though! Just trying to think objectively about what can be done to make the most people happy as possible. To me the map balance is a problem that should be corrected with racial balance. Having Zerg rely on a very specific set of map conditions is going to be bad for the game going forward. Not all races need to be equal on all map designs, but it's a little too harsh right now. The other major thing is it's not even really clear if bigger maps would help zerg. Terran have the stronger harassment game with vikings, hellions, banshee's, medivac drops, etc. and Zerg have some of the weakest drop defense and rely on creep spread (which takes longer on bigger maps). This is especially true with the natural where if it's open zerg are extremely vulnerable to harass at the start. | ||
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kajeus
United States679 Posts
My response is way late, but I guess that's what I get for having other stuff to do.  http://sc2ranks.com/stats Of all players on Korean servers: 8.56% Random, 39.21% Protoss, 34.51% Terran, 17.73% Zerg Diamond league as a whole: 9.74% Random, 36.11% Protoss, 29.87% Terran, 24.28% Zerg. LOOK at that gigantic gap. Now, % for each race of only Korean diamond players would be ideal, but oh well. Look at the percentage that plays zerg in each region: 20.35% NA, 21.13% Europe, 17.73% Korea, 24.20% Taiwan, 20.46% SE Asia, 21.71% Russia, 17.53% Latin America. Now imagine any reasonable weighted average of those numbers. Around 21% maybe? Less? HOWEVER, what percentage of all diamond players are zerg? 24.28%!! That is not only CLOSE to what would be expected, but ABOVE what would be expected. ((Terrans are 36% of the top 50 in Korea, btw... Zergs are 24% -- way MORE than the percentage who play the race in all of Korea)) | ||
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kGold
Canada66 Posts
I can believe it because Zerg is the hardest race to play so the beginner-intermediate players will show more of a tendency to stay away from Zerg. | ||
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kajeus
United States679 Posts
On August 07 2010 05:22 kGold wrote: The only defense could be that while there are fewer Zerg players than the other races on Korea, there are more BETTER Zerg players per capita of Zerg players in Korea vs. the other races. I can believe it because Zerg is the hardest race to play so the beginner-intermediate players will show more of a tendency to stay away from Zerg. That's true -- that's a possibility. However, the trend holds even globally. 20.54% of all players worldwide are zerg, but zergs are 24.28% of all diamond players worldwide. Now, your explanation is still a valid possibility, but still -- we would expect far FEWER zergs in the best of the best if zerg were genuinely underpowered, both globally and in the Korean top 50. Btw, I'm new to RTS games and I've played zerg exclusively since March or April. | ||
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