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On January 20 2013 10:42 skyR wrote:Show nested quote +On January 20 2013 08:37 sob3k wrote:+ Show Spoiler +Ok guys, I need some advice. My PC recently died (just shut off and now wont display video/respond, thread was Here) I tried all the classic stuff and swapped out my roommates GPU, but it had no effect. I'm thinking the PSU is not the problem because everything seems to be powered fine. So I'm thinking its the CPU and/OR the MOBO. I think I'll just replace them, the computer is a very old build which has served me excellently. SO the computer is right now: HIS Radeon 4870 Intel Q6600 Asus P5Q - E 4g Corsair dominator RAM Antec 750w PSU I run 1680x1050 and thats fine for me, I play random recent games but mostly just LoL and do some music production. This build has been fine for me for like well over 5 years, runs modern games smoothly. So I'm thinking just replace the CPU and MOBO. My budget is low. I have money, but I'm more interested in hitting the best price/performance sweet spot. I don't need a lot of power, although I obv dont want to downgrade anything. When I built this computer fucking aeons ago I spent forever looking up stuff and waiting for things to go on sale, some of the components were quite lowend even then, but the computer has played nearly every release up till very recently at or nearly maxed. I haven't kept up with hardware at all though, so I'm looking for your guys advice on what would be a good CPU/MOBO to toss in there right now. Would/should I buy new RAM as well? I know its crazy cheap now but I know nothing about RAM. I'm all about functionality here. Also do you guys agree that it probably is the CPU/MOBO that is broken? Its not GPU. Can the PSU be broken if it still looks like its powering everything fine? You don't list a budget so not sure what you consider low or high since your PC was relatively high-end back in the day. You're probably looking at a core i5 3570k and a Z77 (if you want to overclock) or a core i5 3570 (non-K) and a B75 / H77 if you are not looking to overclocking. Lower than the cost of a Q6600 and P5Q back than. You will also require new DDR3 memory as DDR2 is no longer usable with any of the modern CPUs. The typical 1333 or 1600MHz 2x4gb kit for $40 is fine. Not sure what Antec unit you have but if you have a modular unit such as the older Earthwatts, High Current Gamer-M or High Current Pro, the cable might be loose. Otherwise, yes it's probably the motherboard.
Those CPU's look a bit spendy, and I can't really validate paying for 3.8 when 2.4 worked fine for me. This is more of a replacement job I guess. What would you recommend in the
<$200
<$150
ranges? and what Mobo to pair? CPU's are confusing with the competing architectures and cores and shit.
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United Kingdom20275 Posts
2.4ghz on a core 2 quad is not even in the same ballpark as 2.4ghz on an ivy bridge.
You can get a sandy/ivy bridge pentium/i3 or go for the single threaded performance king in 3570k really
http://www.anandtech.com/bench/Product/53?vs=701&i=27.28.38.39
When you can max out performance in such a core part of the system (single threaded performance) and have more cores than almost any game will utilize for $350 CPU+mobo+RAM or whatever the hell US prices are these days, there's little reason to settle for less
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Well the 3570k is sort of a direct replacement for a Q6600 since both are quads, both are unlocked, and a Q6600 was $300 (later dropped to $200).
For under $150, you're looking at Sandybridge Pentiums like the G850 for ~$65. It'll be significantly better than the Q6600 in most games but slightly worse in multi-thraded tasks (eg. encoding).
For under $200, you're looking at a core i3 3220 for ~$120 which will be an overall improvement from the Q6600.
For both, you're looking at getting a ~$60 B75 or H77 motherboard along with 1333 / 1600MHz DDR3 memory.
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On January 21 2013 06:49 RiceAgainst wrote:Show nested quote +On January 21 2013 06:30 Belial88 wrote:+ Show Spoiler +RiceAgainst, some comments on your build: - PSU is too expensive. 300w is overkill for any heavily overclocked single GPU system as it is, any 350w+ quality psu will work more than enough and last a long time. Right now I believe the Corsair CX series can be found for super cheap on newegg (i think its still going on). Basically, get the cheapest PSU on this list: http://www.overclock.net/t/183810/faq-recommended-power-suppliesYou should find a quality PSU under $30 on newegg right now... 7850 doesnt run that hot, and it has a non-reference design. You don't *need* additional fans for overclocking, and unless you plan to edit the GPU bios, you aren't going to really produce the heat in a single GPU system that would warrant additional cooling specifically for the GPU. There are hardwired limits to prevent you from overvolting your GPU too far. I can't find anything in the XFX policy in regards to overclocking or overvolting, and it's not like they can tell unless you change the bios and somehow are unable to change it back while the card is still operable enough for them to use it so they can see what bios is on it.... but software overvolting and overclocking will keep you within limits so you won't produce too much heat generally (in my experience, going past the software limits yields significantly decreasing returns, not even an extra 10mhz in my experience goin up to .2v over the software limit with an edited bios). Overclock first, and if you find you are running hot, then buy the fans. Not the other way around. You are doing it backwards. If you are going with an i3 build just get the cheapest motherboard possible, frankly. The features you pay for for a more expensive mobo is VRM quality (overclocking) and SLI support (going past the $150 range, it's tri/quad SLI, extreme VRMs that are for sub-zero overclocks on extreme volts, little knickknacks for overclocking that aren't necessary but can be really convenient like dual bios, multimeter contact points, on-board power button, debug LED, etc). For an SC2 build though, you'd really benefit a lot if you went for an i5 build and went for a way cheaper GPU. You'd get over double performance on an OC i5 for less than double the price. All you'd need is some $80-100 GPU anyways. I hope you have an SSD in your build. It's sacrilege not to these days considering how cheap they are. You can get a 120gb+ for under $100, you can get a 64-80gb ssd for under $60. Just think about that and how much space you really need. edit: with 2x2gb of ram instead of 2x4, a more reasonable psu, a lower end gpu (a gtx 460 1gb would handle ultra 1080 very well, a 7850 is overkill for sc2, while a 7850 is certainly strong and great at $150, i think an i5 would be a much bigger upgrade over an i3 than a 7850 vs 460 if funds are limited), i think you can fit in a 3570k+UD3H. It would help if you lived near microcenter, but if not best buy will price match the cpu and then you can get a motherboard elsewhere, probably a biostar budget range board. Funny, I had an SSD but sold it to expand my budget. Turns out, I didn't need to expand it in the first place. The Corsair PSUs are going for around ~$30 but I wanted a bit more longevity to my build, despite being a budget build, so I decided to go with the recommended Capstone. I know I can benefit from an i5 (it was actually my initial plan to get an unlocked i5 and a 7770) and I actually might have enough to get one, but it depends on if I really wanted to spend all -if not more than- $500 on my PC or not.
There is no 'longevity'. A 300w power supply has been proven to be overkill just for a highly overclocked, volted, single GPU system (the only exception might be some FX 8xxx or Phenom x6 + Fermi GPU, but your doing intel and non-fermi so that isn't even close to being an issue). 600w for a single GPU system is utterly insane, you could run dual fermi GPUs on a highly overclocked, overvolted, 1.5v 5ghz overclock on that.
You can google any SLI/Crossfire power consumption X GPU model and you'll see - you'd be hard pressed to go over 400w in total system consumption in GPU stress tests. Add another 200w maybe if your talking about some 5ghz 1.5v ivy bridge but I mean unless you got two 480's, even 600w is quite overkill.
You aren't going to have issues of longevity and capacitor aging in a PSU that is made from quality parts, and there are plenty of 300w+ PSUs with quality parts. As long as it's not using chinese electrolytic capacitors on the parts that count, you really aren't going to have any issue.
400w is complete overkill for single GPU and single CPU with high end overclocks and overvolts, water cooling, etc. 300w frankly has been proven to be more than enough. You need to focus on quality, not quantity. While the PSU you selected is definitely high quality (rosewill has sure changed it's reputation and quality, for the most part), it's a PSU you'd select for a multi-GPU, FX 8350 overclock system. Not an i3, or single gpu system, or intel system...
As long as you can pick a good PSU with little ripple, and good efficiency at varying levels of usage, and low noise, and good quality, you are good. A 600w psu for longevitiy would die out just as 'early' as a 350w psu, because something like a cable would be the 'bottleneck' long before the capacitors or chokes or rails, as in a decade. By no means am I saying cheap out on a psu, but 600w is overkill. If you'd like to SLI in the future, buy a 600w PSU when it's on a really good discount when you need to, just get a 350w+ and get an ssd or something instead. Or an i5 for gods sakes.
You don't need to spend more than $500 for a quality i5 build, even with a quality SSD, but you will need to buy smart. It means buying what you need. If you continue to buy stuff you simply won't use, like 4gb of RAM, and a 600w PSU, you can get maybe half the performance with low quality parts with some i3 build.
Here you go:
i5 3570k
UD3H
I hope you live near microcenter. If not I'll revise this, but the asrock extreme4 is a horrible motherboard for the price, and the asus lk is not that great either. If you want to go cheaper, go with a biostar TZ77A $79. Frankly I wouldn't consider anything other than the Biostar TZ77A or UD3H.
$273 UD3h, dont forget the $25 microcenter coupon! floating around the internet somewhere, i have it if you want the PDF.
A steal of a deal, for some PSC RAM, this ram will easily hit up to 2500mhz+. You can't get better RAM than this, except maybe some 2800mhz which would be insanely expensive. You'll never use more than 4gb for gaming, because games are written with 32bit OS's in mind, and even 64-bit games won't use more than 4gb anytime soon. The whole point of a computer is how easy it is to upgrade, if you ever need 8gb you can do so in the future for cheaper than it would cost today.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Mushkin-Blackline-996629-8-8-8-24-4GB-2x2GB-DDR3-1600-PC3-12800-SDRAM-Memory-/181036915275?pt=US_Memory_RAM_&hash=item2a26a41a4b
$25
X25-M G2 80gb. Ebay. Find it for $50. Might require patience. If you can find the Intel 330 80GB for the same price, get that instead, if it's more than $5 more, don't. The Samsung 830 64gb is a high quality SSD, not like you'd notice, but it's better than the x25-m, if you can live with 64gb SSD (or gonna use a 2nd HDD anyways). I've only used 50gb of HDD in 2 years with SC2, lots of benchmarking/performance/utility programs, steam, sc2, and general usage programs, but the idea is the same - the less space you need, the better storage you can get. If you really need 1TB it'd be a shame you'd have to buy some crap HDD.
$50
Case. The case you picked is fine, it's a good case. Case is so much about price. NZXT at $17 at MC though - really can't beat that for budget case (I'm gonna use a jigsaw to cut a hole in the side and then just tape a larger piece of cell cast acrylic behind it, walla, instant high quality window that isn't low quality extruded like most case windows are).
$40/$17
GPU, 7850 for $150 is a great deal. But if you are just playing sc2/hots/dota, you dont need that much power, and that money would be better spent on your CPU/Mobo/HSF than on your GPU. A $60-80 gtx 460 1gb off ebay/trading forum would handle 1080 ultra very well, anything stronger than that (as others have mentioned in this thread) wouldn't really be appreciated. I think this would be a good part to shave budget to get an SSD, i5 with a high end heatsink (which makes a world of difference), some accessories like high end thermal paste, a good motherboard... you ask me, I'd much rather have all that on my sc2 build, than have a sub-par system all because I got a GPU that won't be appreciated. If you really want to be extreme, you can get something like a 4850 1GB for $25 which will handle medium, or maybe a 450 or 5650 for around $50-60.
$20-150 depending on what your needs and budget are.
CX430 $24 newegg AR shipped. Great deal on a quality PSU, more than enough power than you'll ever need. A new version too.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817139026
Heatsink. Get a dual tower under $60 from ebay or on sale. The Logisys Assassin, one of the best heatsinks in the world, is $39+shipping at performancepcs (shipping takes it around $50-55). Nh-D14 and NH-D14 SE2011 (se2011 comes with pwm fans instead, and an lga2011 mount, that's only difference, but you can get mounts for free from noctua), Frio, Silver Arrow, Phanteks, whatever dual tower you can get for under $60 would be a great value. They are a world of difference from the Hyper 212, which is a terrible heatsink. The Corsair H50 is $29 new somewhere right now, forget where... that's a decent midrange cooler at a great price.
$29
$488 for an i5 3570k, the best motherboard you can get (UD3H) for overclocking ivy (besides extreme boards obviously), by far, PSC mushkins which will do 2400mhz, H50 closed loop mid-range cooler, NZXT Source 210, and a $70 460 and SSD. Find the 460 for $60 and you can get some Coollaboratory Liquid Ultra, some high end thermal material that will drop temps more significantly than going from the H50 to a dual tower cooler.
There are a few sacrifices with such a build - 460 instead of a 7850 at a great price, nzxt source 210 case instead of your CM case. But frankly, the CM case you picked was also a budget case, and with the $23 you save you could buy an LED yate loon which will be much higher quality than the CM fans (which are absolute crock, btw, but then again I've never seen a case below $80 have half decent fans in it), cell cast acrylic for a window, and for home depot to cut the panel for you, and have money left over to put $10+ in another component, the GPU you picked was overkill, the i5 and ud3h is sorely needed in your situation, the RAM I picked is better and cheaper, the PSU is cheaper and more appropriate, and I even threw in a heatsink, which was not in your original build.
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On January 21 2013 08:56 skyR wrote:
Memory for the average person really comes down to just who you want to do business with or price. ICs don't matter despite what Belial tells you.
I'd pick the Earthwatts over the Corsair CX but it's still worse than the Capstone.
The Earthwatts is $20 more expensive than the Corsair CX, nor are they much better PSUs. The CX series is a good line of PSUs. There isn't much to say to pick one over the other, until you introduce price.
ICs make a huge difference. 1866mhz CL8 micron d9's at 1.65v, compared to 2400mhz CL6 1.65v. That's going to be at least 5+ fps difference, especially in streaming. Normally PSC/BBSE is not worth paying premium for, but when you can find PSCs for $25, for cheaper than some linked micron d9's, it'd be stupid to buy the d9s over the PSCs.
It's like recommending the FX 8350 over the i5. No reason to buy the fx over the i5 when they are same price (most of the time, gaming at least). Even for $10 more, it's worth buying PSC/BBSE over micron d9s, some of the worst ICs. They are only good at tightening timings, but this is for an intel build, not AMD.
ICs are the RAM itself. 1866 vs 1600, 1866 vs 2000, not a big deal. 1866 CL9 vs 2400 CL6 is a world of difference, that's what, twice as fast or so? If the hyperx was $15, I'd say go for it, but at $35 or whatever no way.
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I'm assuming you can't get to microcenter or best buy (who price matches microcenter)? Because if you live near best buy, you could get a much better Z77 board (gd45 or asus lx/le, which i shudder to think about but a lot better than that board).
The 2500k is only $8 more expensive at amazon. Get that instead. The motherboard is terrible, it's using nikos mosfets, which blew out all the time on their AM3 line (and still do).
Mushkins Silverlines are not great RAM, and overpriced. I don't know why you would get a non-k edition i5, and then go with 8gb of RAM. You don't have the budget. It's a waste of money. For a gaming build you won't use more than 4gb of RAM, it's just not practical. If you really insisted on wasting money, spend $45 on some avexir 2400mhz 2x2gb ram, not $45 on some silverlines.
It's not really worth paying more than $10 more than the absolute cheapest ram out there. I only said all the psc/bbse stuff to make it clear how much better the RAM I found was compared to the linked HyperX ram that was more expensive. Normally Mushkin Enhanced Blacklines go for $50+ new, that they are on ebay for $25 is actually a bit rare and quite a steal. 8gb is a waste of money, especially when you are so confined in your budget - you dont even have a heatsink in your build - especially when you are picking 8gb of low quality ram.
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Earthwatts is $30 at Frys... much better than a CX430 at $45 lol.
You keep talking about overclocking for someone who is getting a H61 board which is not capable of running memory past 1333MHz. Please tell me again how this is relevant?
A 2500k is $200 on Amazon. A used 2500k is $189 which is $9 more expensive... not $8. Why do you insist on recommending buying used for people that clearly aren't interested in doing so?
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![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/2wlkX1h.png)
Doing a build for a roommate, total budget is 750~
Gunna add my old 5870 in there.
monitor gunna be around 100 dollars, off craigslist, 1920x1080.
I feel PSU is a bit overkill, any suggestion for another PSU (modular please).
How's it looking so far?
Also, any good advice on mid-atx size cases? <70 bucks. Thinking about corsair 200R.
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On January 21 2013 10:04 Belial88 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 21 2013 06:49 RiceAgainst wrote:On January 21 2013 06:30 Belial88 wrote:+ Show Spoiler +RiceAgainst, some comments on your build: - PSU is too expensive. 300w is overkill for any heavily overclocked single GPU system as it is, any 350w+ quality psu will work more than enough and last a long time. Right now I believe the Corsair CX series can be found for super cheap on newegg (i think its still going on). Basically, get the cheapest PSU on this list: http://www.overclock.net/t/183810/faq-recommended-power-suppliesYou should find a quality PSU under $30 on newegg right now... 7850 doesnt run that hot, and it has a non-reference design. You don't *need* additional fans for overclocking, and unless you plan to edit the GPU bios, you aren't going to really produce the heat in a single GPU system that would warrant additional cooling specifically for the GPU. There are hardwired limits to prevent you from overvolting your GPU too far. I can't find anything in the XFX policy in regards to overclocking or overvolting, and it's not like they can tell unless you change the bios and somehow are unable to change it back while the card is still operable enough for them to use it so they can see what bios is on it.... but software overvolting and overclocking will keep you within limits so you won't produce too much heat generally (in my experience, going past the software limits yields significantly decreasing returns, not even an extra 10mhz in my experience goin up to .2v over the software limit with an edited bios). Overclock first, and if you find you are running hot, then buy the fans. Not the other way around. You are doing it backwards. If you are going with an i3 build just get the cheapest motherboard possible, frankly. The features you pay for for a more expensive mobo is VRM quality (overclocking) and SLI support (going past the $150 range, it's tri/quad SLI, extreme VRMs that are for sub-zero overclocks on extreme volts, little knickknacks for overclocking that aren't necessary but can be really convenient like dual bios, multimeter contact points, on-board power button, debug LED, etc). For an SC2 build though, you'd really benefit a lot if you went for an i5 build and went for a way cheaper GPU. You'd get over double performance on an OC i5 for less than double the price. All you'd need is some $80-100 GPU anyways. I hope you have an SSD in your build. It's sacrilege not to these days considering how cheap they are. You can get a 120gb+ for under $100, you can get a 64-80gb ssd for under $60. Just think about that and how much space you really need. edit: with 2x2gb of ram instead of 2x4, a more reasonable psu, a lower end gpu (a gtx 460 1gb would handle ultra 1080 very well, a 7850 is overkill for sc2, while a 7850 is certainly strong and great at $150, i think an i5 would be a much bigger upgrade over an i3 than a 7850 vs 460 if funds are limited), i think you can fit in a 3570k+UD3H. It would help if you lived near microcenter, but if not best buy will price match the cpu and then you can get a motherboard elsewhere, probably a biostar budget range board. + Show Spoiler +Funny, I had an SSD but sold it to expand my budget. Turns out, I didn't need to expand it in the first place. The Corsair PSUs are going for around ~$30 but I wanted a bit more longevity to my build, despite being a budget build, so I decided to go with the recommended Capstone. I know I can benefit from an i5 (it was actually my initial plan to get an unlocked i5 and a 7770) and I actually might have enough to get one, but it depends on if I really wanted to spend all -if not more than- $500 on my PC or not. + Show Spoiler +There is no 'longevity'. A 300w power supply has been proven to be overkill just for a highly overclocked, volted, single GPU system (the only exception might be some FX 8xxx or Phenom x6 + Fermi GPU, but your doing intel and non-fermi so that isn't even close to being an issue). 600w for a single GPU system is utterly insane, you could run dual fermi GPUs on a highly overclocked, overvolted, 1.5v 5ghz overclock on that. You can google any SLI/Crossfire power consumption X GPU model and you'll see - you'd be hard pressed to go over 400w in total system consumption in GPU stress tests. Add another 200w maybe if your talking about some 5ghz 1.5v ivy bridge but I mean unless you got two 480's, even 600w is quite overkill. You aren't going to have issues of longevity and capacitor aging in a PSU that is made from quality parts, and there are plenty of 300w+ PSUs with quality parts. As long as it's not using chinese electrolytic capacitors on the parts that count, you really aren't going to have any issue. 400w is complete overkill for single GPU and single CPU with high end overclocks and overvolts, water cooling, etc. 300w frankly has been proven to be more than enough. You need to focus on quality, not quantity. While the PSU you selected is definitely high quality (rosewill has sure changed it's reputation and quality, for the most part), it's a PSU you'd select for a multi-GPU, FX 8350 overclock system. Not an i3, or single gpu system, or intel system... As long as you can pick a good PSU with little ripple, and good efficiency at varying levels of usage, and low noise, and good quality, you are good. A 600w psu for longevitiy would die out just as 'early' as a 350w psu, because something like a cable would be the 'bottleneck' long before the capacitors or chokes or rails, as in a decade. By no means am I saying cheap out on a psu, but 600w is overkill. If you'd like to SLI in the future, buy a 600w PSU when it's on a really good discount when you need to, just get a 350w+ and get an ssd or something instead. Or an i5 for gods sakes. You don't need to spend more than $500 for a quality i5 build, even with a quality SSD, but you will need to buy smart. It means buying what you need. If you continue to buy stuff you simply won't use, like 4gb of RAM, and a 600w PSU, you can get maybe half the performance with low quality parts with some i3 build. Here you go: i5 3570k UD3H I hope you live near microcenter. If not I'll revise this, but the asrock extreme4 is a horrible motherboard for the price, and the asus lk is not that great either. If you want to go cheaper, go with a biostar TZ77A $79. Frankly I wouldn't consider anything other than the Biostar TZ77A or UD3H. $273 UD3h, dont forget the $25 microcenter coupon! floating around the internet somewhere, i have it if you want the PDF. A steal of a deal, for some PSC RAM, this ram will easily hit up to 2500mhz+. You can't get better RAM than this, except maybe some 2800mhz which would be insanely expensive. You'll never use more than 4gb for gaming, because games are written with 32bit OS's in mind, and even 64-bit games won't use more than 4gb anytime soon. The whole point of a computer is how easy it is to upgrade, if you ever need 8gb you can do so in the future for cheaper than it would cost today. http://www.ebay.com/itm/Mushkin-Blackline-996629-8-8-8-24-4GB-2x2GB-DDR3-1600-PC3-12800-SDRAM-Memory-/181036915275?pt=US_Memory_RAM_&hash=item2a26a41a4b$25 X25-M G2 80gb. Ebay. Find it for $50. Might require patience. If you can find the Intel 330 80GB for the same price, get that instead, if it's more than $5 more, don't. The Samsung 830 64gb is a high quality SSD, not like you'd notice, but it's better than the x25-m, if you can live with 64gb SSD (or gonna use a 2nd HDD anyways). I've only used 50gb of HDD in 2 years with SC2, lots of benchmarking/performance/utility programs, steam, sc2, and general usage programs, but the idea is the same - the less space you need, the better storage you can get. If you really need 1TB it'd be a shame you'd have to buy some crap HDD. $50 Case. The case you picked is fine, it's a good case. Case is so much about price. NZXT at $17 at MC though - really can't beat that for budget case (I'm gonna use a jigsaw to cut a hole in the side and then just tape a larger piece of cell cast acrylic behind it, walla, instant high quality window that isn't low quality extruded like most case windows are). $40/$17 GPU, 7850 for $150 is a great deal. But if you are just playing sc2/hots/dota, you dont need that much power, and that money would be better spent on your CPU/Mobo/HSF than on your GPU. A $60-80 gtx 460 1gb off ebay/trading forum would handle 1080 ultra very well, anything stronger than that (as others have mentioned in this thread) wouldn't really be appreciated. I think this would be a good part to shave budget to get an SSD, i5 with a high end heatsink (which makes a world of difference), some accessories like high end thermal paste, a good motherboard... you ask me, I'd much rather have all that on my sc2 build, than have a sub-par system all because I got a GPU that won't be appreciated. If you really want to be extreme, you can get something like a 4850 1GB for $25 which will handle medium, or maybe a 450 or 5650 for around $50-60. $20-150 depending on what your needs and budget are. CX430 $24 newegg AR shipped. Great deal on a quality PSU, more than enough power than you'll ever need. A new version too. http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817139026Heatsink. Get a dual tower under $60 from ebay or on sale. The Logisys Assassin, one of the best heatsinks in the world, is $39+shipping at performancepcs (shipping takes it around $50-55). Nh-D14 and NH-D14 SE2011 (se2011 comes with pwm fans instead, and an lga2011 mount, that's only difference, but you can get mounts for free from noctua), Frio, Silver Arrow, Phanteks, whatever dual tower you can get for under $60 would be a great value. They are a world of difference from the Hyper 212, which is a terrible heatsink. The Corsair H50 is $29 new somewhere right now, forget where... that's a decent midrange cooler at a great price. $29 $488 for an i5 3570k, the best motherboard you can get (UD3H) for overclocking ivy (besides extreme boards obviously), by far, PSC mushkins which will do 2400mhz, H50 closed loop mid-range cooler, NZXT Source 210, and a $70 460 and SSD. Find the 460 for $60 and you can get some Coollaboratory Liquid Ultra, some high end thermal material that will drop temps more significantly than going from the H50 to a dual tower cooler. There are a few sacrifices with such a build - 460 instead of a 7850 at a great price, nzxt source 210 case instead of your CM case. But frankly, the CM case you picked was also a budget case, and with the $23 you save you could buy an LED yate loon which will be much higher quality than the CM fans (which are absolute crock, btw, but then again I've never seen a case below $80 have half decent fans in it), cell cast acrylic for a window, and for home depot to cut the panel for you, and have money left over to put $10+ in another component, the GPU you picked was overkill, the i5 and ud3h is sorely needed in your situation, the RAM I picked is better and cheaper, the PSU is cheaper and more appropriate, and I even threw in a heatsink, which was not in your original build.
I like this build but the problem is, my local Best Buy won't price match the ~80 mi. away Microcenter. So that's $50 extra I have to pay for the CPU. At roughly $550, that's actually pretty good. However, I felt that the leap to the 7850 is just so big for the cost, that I'd stick to what I'm at.
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On January 21 2013 10:33 skyR wrote:
Earthwatts is $30 at Frys... much better than a CX430 at $45 lol.
You keep talking about overclocking for someone who is getting a H61 board which is not capable of running memory past 1333MHz. Please tell me again how this is relevant?
A 2500k is $200 on Amazon. A used 2500k is $189 which is $9 more expensive... not $8. Why do you insist on recommending buying used for people that clearly aren't interested in doing so?
CX 430 is $24, not 45. And CX500 at $29, which wattage earthwatts were you talking about?
he was getting an h61 because he thought he was limited by budget. I am showing him the light of smart purchases. I insist on cutting the right corners for people who aren't aware you can do so. I didn't know about buying used for a long time, either. Most parts, I still buy new - the CX with their huge rebates, cases generally come with shipping deals at sites new but used the shipping kills any value that might be had, not to mention that cosmetic damage is an issue with cases that isn't present with most hardware.
Generally, the only things I recommend used are GPUs, RAM, storage, and heatsinks. Even then, I usually prefer to recomend cheap, crap ram for a super low discount sub $20, than high quality ram at $25+, and heatsinks are often on specials that make them more appealing new than used (but that isn't as common).
You make it out that i always say buy used, but most of the parts I listed were new.
Make a totally new, bad build for $500, yes, all you can get is a locked CPU and why would you ever get a heatsink or decent ram? Shave the right corners like 4gb of ram instead of 8gb, when 8gb is useless, maybe cut a bit off the GPU so you can have a half decent everything else, get a low storage ssd instead of high storage hdd, and you got a significantly better system.
Go with a phenom x4 or some other cheap amd chip for a cheap build. otherwise go i5 K series. the gap between the two in performance is so large that i dont think anything like an i3 would be worth it.
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On January 21 2013 10:35 wei2coolman wrote:+ Show Spoiler +Doing a build for a roommate, total budget is 750~ Gunna add my old 5870 in there. monitor gunna be around 100 dollars, off craigslist, 1920x1080. I feel PSU is a bit overkill, any suggestion for another PSU (modular please). How's it looking so far? Also, any good advice on mid-atx size cases? <70 bucks. Thinking about corsair 200R.
Yes a 600w unit is overkill. A Rosewill Capstone 450-M is $70, significantly better. If you want to go cheaper then there's the Antec Neo Eco 400C at $40 or a CX430 for $45 ($25 after mail in rebate) if you want to deal with rebates.
Corsair Vengeance 2x4gb 1600MHz is $41 with promo code EMCXWWN32: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820233180 If you prefer G.Skill then a 1866MHz kit is $43 with promo code EMCXWWN28: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820231455 Both deals end on the 23rd.
Burner is overpriced, what's wrong with the cheapest? http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16827151256
Ya Corsair Carbide 200R for $200 is okay.
I don't agree with a Piledriver but I'm guessing you're set on it as I recalled a discussion back then on some terrible youtube review.
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On January 21 2013 10:35 wei2coolman wrote:Doing a build for a roommate, total budget is 750~ Gunna add my old 5870 in there. monitor gunna be around 100 dollars, off craigslist, 1920x1080. I feel PSU is a bit overkill, any suggestion for another PSU (modular please). How's it looking so far? Also, any good advice on mid-atx size cases? <70 bucks. Thinking about corsair 200R.
Ram is overpriced. for a gaming build there's no reason to go above 4gb of ram these days. As I linked above, some mushkin blacklines for only $25 - they are about twice as fast as the ram you linked, which will only do around 1866mhz, and for cheaper.
if you want modular, there's the cx430-m for $49 or so. There's also the modstream x on newegg for really cheap too, after rebate, under $50. I'd prefer the cx430-m.
You are better off with a Phenom X4 C3 revision (b95/b97/b99, 955 c3, 965 c3, etc). than an FX 6300. It has more FPUs so will actually be better for gaming. Should overclock just the same considering Phenom's better clock for clock. And it would be cheaper.
The MSI board you picked out is absolutely terrible too. 4+1 phase, and poor VRM quality. Especilaly on a power hungry amd system, it's likely to blow on stock settings on the fx cpus. It's just a rebranded G45. If you check the g45 on MSis website, it even has a disclaimer saying "Dont use burn in tools". It's because the VRM is so bad that it's likely to blow even on stock settings. You can search the g45 and find the furor about it, many, many, many reports of it blowing out, even at stock. It just can't handle much, it's a bad design. Chinese capacitors, no low rds on or OCP, single driver...
http://www.overclock.net/t/946407/amd-motherboards-vrm-info-database/800_100
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813128521
GA board. Same price, better quality, even though it lacks a VRM heatsink. Just buy some enzotechs and stick them on the VRM.
amd chips run insanely hot, and draw so much power, that their mobos pretty much cost the same as intel boards after all is said and done.
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Well, the build is sort of semi-future proofing. My friend intends on having this system for at least 4 years, all while being able to upgrade gpu, in between. My thought process is future programs will further utilize multi-threading, and as long as I get him the best socket, he'll be set to do upgrades throughout the years as well. As long as the cpu isn't bottlenecking vid card, I don't see any major issues, and a well rounded cpu is the best bet.
Checking out microcenter, they're offering the fx8350+ASUS M5A97 for same price on newegg (for fx6300+mobo). So gunna get him that fx8350.
Oh wow, didn't know the msi mobo had so many issues... Is the asus m5a97 any better?
Thanks for info on PSU and burner (didn't notice that samsung one when searching)
Also, it's been like 4 years since intels introduced true quad cores, why are they still stuck with dual core solutions? (i3's)
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On January 21 2013 10:48 Belial88 wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On January 21 2013 10:33 skyR wrote:
Earthwatts is $30 at Frys... much better than a CX430 at $45 lol.
You keep talking about overclocking for someone who is getting a H61 board which is not capable of running memory past 1333MHz. Please tell me again how this is relevant?
A 2500k is $200 on Amazon. A used 2500k is $189 which is $9 more expensive... not $8. Why do you insist on recommending buying used for people that clearly aren't interested in doing so? CX 430 is $24, not 45. And CX500 at $29, which wattage earthwatts were you talking about? he was getting an h61 because he thought he was limited by budget. I am showing him the light of smart purchases. I insist on cutting the right corners for people who aren't aware you can do so. I didn't know about buying used for a long time, either. Most parts, I still buy new - the CX with their huge rebates, cases generally come with shipping deals at sites new but used the shipping kills any value that might be had, not to mention that cosmetic damage is an issue with cases that isn't present with most hardware. Generally, the only things I recommend used are GPUs, RAM, storage, and heatsinks. Even then, I usually prefer to recomend cheap, crap ram for a super low discount sub $20, than high quality ram at $25+, and heatsinks are often on specials that make them more appealing new than used (but that isn't as common). You make it out that i always say buy used, but most of the parts I listed were new. Make a totally new, bad build for $500, yes, all you can get is a locked CPU and why would you ever get a heatsink or decent ram? Shave the right corners like 4gb of ram instead of 8gb, when 8gb is useless, maybe cut a bit off the GPU so you can have a half decent everything else, get a low storage ssd instead of high storage hdd, and you got a significantly better system. Go with a phenom x4 or some other cheap amd chip for a cheap build. otherwise go i5 K series. the gap between the two in performance is so large that i dont think anything like an i3 would be worth it.
Do I need to take a screenshot of something that's staring you in the face? A CX430 is $45, it is only $25 after mail in rebate. I have no idea why you insist on saying it's the price after mail in rebate but act as there's no mail in rebate because I definitely don't pay the price after mail in rebate when I checkout. I also have no idea why you always round 99 cents down instead of 1 cent up.
Uh yes you always do recommend used as evident by all the parts you just recommended... 2500k for $9 more is used, GTX 460 is used, heatsinks are used, RAM is used, SSD is used. How you consider that most of the parts you listed were new, I will never ever know.
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It's money. Unless you are living paycheck to paycheck, it's the price. It's $25 to me, at the end of the month that money is back to pay rent or whatever. Assuming you are that tied for cash, which you probably aren't if you are building a computer like this. A rebate is nothing to sneeze at, it's worth it's value. What, are you sending newegg an envelope of cash for your order, you aren't using a card, and simply don't have the cash to go over a certain amount for the month?
Well, the build is sort of semi-future proofing. My friend intends on having this system for at least 4 years, all while being able to upgrade gpu, in between. My thought process is future programs will further utilize multi-threading, and as long as I get him the best socket, he'll be set to do upgrades throughout the years as well. As long as the cpu isn't bottlenecking vid card, I don't see any major issues, and a well rounded cpu is the best bet.
Checking out microcenter, they're offering the fx8350+ASUS M5A97 for same price on newegg (for fx6300+mobo). So gunna get him that fx8350.
Oh wow, didn't know the msi mobo had so many issues... Is the asus m5a97 any better?
Thanks for info on PSU and burner (didn't notice that samsung one when searching)
Also, it's been like 4 years since intels introduced true quad cores, why are they still stuck with dual core solutions? (i3's)
There's no such thing as future proofing. No one can predict the future either, for all you know, computers will totally change and we won't be using the same type of CPU architecture or designs. Phenom, fx, sandy, they'll all be just as outdated in 4 years anyways. Unless you want to spend $1000 on a cpu that'll last maybe a year longer, don't worry about future proofing.
Not to mention when you get past the $50 CPU price range, ie athlon ii and pentium, you got very powerful CPUs that are pretty future proof as they come.
AM3+ and LGA 1155 are dead sockets, there isn't really 'upgrade the cpu'. Buy a new CPU, buy a new mobo, when the time comes around. It's not a big deal.
Money and hardware is also fungible. In 4 years, sell the computer for a couple hundred dollars, dont save the case, dont save the GPU, just sell the entire build, and make a new one. It's not very hard. Upgrading is also very easy, it's the whole reason people bulid computers. Your CPU and Mobo and RAM and GPU get outdated, each at slightly different times. Just update as needed, sell off the old hardware. People make it seem like you can never swap out the parts of a computer, as if they are permanently glued in their or something...
Dont get the fx8350. The i5 is a much better chip in every way... The asus board is a million times better but what is better than both is an i5 build.
You can make a decent Phenom X4 build that is just as powerful as FX for gaming for under $400, or you can make an i5 build for $500-700 that is just sooo much more powerful. Intel is on quadcore, with i5, i dont know what you are talking about. And haswell is introducing mainstream quadcores, while AMD is stuck on limited modules. The FX8350 is only quad module - it's not really core, but a very inaccurate and simplistic way to put it is that the FX 8350 is just a hyperthreaded quadcore, it's not actually 8core.
And cores dont mean shit. It's about the cpu architecture, IPC, the memory... a million things. With AMD you are gambling that integer points become important and that their lobbying dollars get good return, but with Intel you know for certain that no matter what in the future, better single threaded performance will always be important. And like I said, who knows what the future brings, you might see something like what intel did to amd, where amd convinces software developers to make their code hostile to intel CPUs so it just runs better on their platforms.
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I have, through no fault of my own, come into possession of a laptop (lenovo w510 thinkpad) containing an i7-720QM (quad-core clarkdale w/hyperthreading @1.60 Ghz) and an Nvidia Quadro 880m (workstation, wtf). For lolz I'm about to throw Skyrim on it and see how well it does on my desktop's 1680x1050 screen.
Any guesses as to the performance I might get or the nightmares of gaming on a workstation card I'm about to experience? 
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On January 21 2013 11:01 wei2coolman wrote:+ Show Spoiler +Well, the build is sort of semi-future proofing. My friend intends on having this system for at least 4 years, all while being able to upgrade gpu, in between. My thought process is future programs will further utilize multi-threading, and as long as I get him the best socket, he'll be set to do upgrades throughout the years as well. As long as the cpu isn't bottlenecking vid card, I don't see any major issues, and a well rounded cpu is the best bet.
Checking out microcenter, they're offering the fx8350+ASUS M5A97 for same price on newegg (for fx6300+mobo). So gunna get him that fx8350.
Oh wow, didn't know the msi mobo had so many issues... Is the asus m5a97 any better?
Thanks for info on PSU and burner (didn't notice that samsung one when searching)
Also, it's been like 4 years since intels introduced true quad cores, why are they still stuck with dual core solutions? (i3's
This is the exact same thought process that people had five years ago when they purchased their Q6600s for $300 over a E6600 for $200. Turned out... most games today still don't take full advantage of more than two cores.
Not sure what CPU upgrade you plan on doing with AM3+ but people generally don't purchase a $100+ processor to upgrade to another $100+ processor that offers just a slight improvement the next year. In two or more years, you'll be buying a new motherboard and DDR4 memory if you want to get a better processor.
You realize the quad cores from Intel are their core i5 and core i7's? It's funny you say this when you are purchasing a FX processor that aren't even truly quad, hex, or octo cores.
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On January 21 2013 11:18 skyR wrote:Show nested quote +On January 21 2013 11:01 wei2coolman wrote:+ Show Spoiler +Well, the build is sort of semi-future proofing. My friend intends on having this system for at least 4 years, all while being able to upgrade gpu, in between. My thought process is future programs will further utilize multi-threading, and as long as I get him the best socket, he'll be set to do upgrades throughout the years as well. As long as the cpu isn't bottlenecking vid card, I don't see any major issues, and a well rounded cpu is the best bet.
Checking out microcenter, they're offering the fx8350+ASUS M5A97 for same price on newegg (for fx6300+mobo). So gunna get him that fx8350.
Oh wow, didn't know the msi mobo had so many issues... Is the asus m5a97 any better?
Thanks for info on PSU and burner (didn't notice that samsung one when searching)
Also, it's been like 4 years since intels introduced true quad cores, why are they still stuck with dual core solutions? (i3's This is the exact same thought process that people had five years ago when they purchased their Q6600s for $300 over a E6600 for $200. Turned out... most games today still don't take full advantage of more than two cores. Not sure what CPU upgrade you plan on doing with AM3+ but people generally don't purchase a $100+ processor to upgrade to another $100+ processor that offers just a slight improvement the next year. In two or more years, you'll be buying a new motherboard and DDR4 memory if you want to get a better processor. You realize the quad cores from Intel are their core i5 and core i7's? It's funny you say this when you are purchasing a FX processor that aren't even truly quad, hex, or octo cores.
Well, yeah I know has the quad core i5 and i7, i'm still surprise they market the i3, is what I mean. I figured 3 years after I got my i7-920, quad core would be the standard, and that dual core would be a thing of the past.
Okay, so, lets say I go for the i5, what model should I be aiming for? (most recent, but lowest clock, OCing up the clock is easy enough). Also, decent mATX board for it?
Derp, nvm, looks like i5-3570 is the way to go.
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EPT
