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McNulty
Norway184 Posts
Also what kid of stats should one look for except the usual (vit, str, ar, critdmg etc)? Think is i found this 1470 DPS 2hand mace, with socket, but no other stats other than min/max and +dmg%. It has no ias, and since the speed is 0,9 its probably in the top range of dmg per swing on weapons ingame(?). Don't remember atm, but I think the max dmg is 19XX. Really wanted to try it out and see if one could do some decent damage, atleast in act1 or 2. | ||
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kethers
United States719 Posts
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heishe
Germany2284 Posts
Also it's a ton of fun. | ||
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kethers
United States719 Posts
Thankfully I tried Sprint/WW style which turned out very successful. Now, I can full clear A3 with all dungeons and kill all elites just under 1 hour. | ||
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ragz_gt
9172 Posts
On July 15 2012 05:57 iLLusive wrote: Well I do plan on getting to 60 by monday so I guess I should of stated I want the fastest lvling build possible and I can purchase gear to back that up being this is an alt. Wanted to add I am 50 now so going forward as I will put gear in my stash for when I have 60. What is my main focus to start clearing Inferno with a solid build. 1. Do I want stack vit / str items? 2. Do I need a certain amt of life on hit or life steal? 3. Do I need a very specific stats on my weapon and is 1hand / shield best way to start out? Thx for the input I really do enjoy the help and if anyone has a link to a good starting Inferno or possible running Hell for practice build I am open to suggestions! I would prefer a AE DPS spec as I do intend to gear up fast. Depends on what build you want... I play a solid shield tank, which I can comfortably solo A2 (I can solo A3 no problem but SLOOOOOOOOOW as hell) but mostly farm A3 with 2 DH friends For my build it's basically stack str/vit/AR/life+ (and MF if you don't want to swap / prepare for it's nerf) but it's definitely NOT a cheap build. | ||
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iLLusive
United States274 Posts
 I am really open to a decent starting build I mean this an alt and I went through the motions the same on my Wiz where I had to gear up and with better gear I was capable of switching into more specs. I just want a build that does not require 20m worth of gear just to get past Act 1/2 I don't expect to destroy everything with 500k in gear, but I know the build really can help the success rate of working through Inferno. So if that Sprint/ WW build is something that I can do so be...but I read that takes a good bit of patience and 1m+ in gear to even get past Act 1. So I do not mind doing a 1hand / shield build. Right now my build is http://us.battle.net/d3/en/calculator/barbarian#bcYVkP!ZYd!YZZcba So completely open to suggestions as whole purchase of making my Barb was to have some contrast from my Wiz and got fustrated being stuck in Act 2 after having nearly 15m in gear already invested. So was time for something fun and new and different play style. | ||
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sc2terran
United States61 Posts
On July 18 2012 09:37 iLLusive wrote: Thanks for the feedback ragz_gt was starting to wonder if everyone got bored and stopped playing Barb in lack of activity in this thread I am really open to a decent starting build I mean this an alt and I went through the motions the same on my Wiz where I had to gear up and with better gear I was capable of switching into more specs. I just want a build that does not require 20m worth of gear just to get past Act 1/2 I don't expect to destroy everything with 500k in gear, but I know the build really can help the success rate of working through Inferno. So if that Sprint/ WW build is something that I can do so be...but I read that takes a good bit of patience and 1m+ in gear to even get past Act 1. So I do not mind doing a 1hand / shield build. Right now my build is http://us.battle.net/d3/en/calculator/barbarian#bcYVkP!ZYd!YZZcba So completely open to suggestions as whole purchase of making my Barb was to have some contrast from my Wiz and got fustrated being stuck in Act 2 after having nearly 15m in gear already invested. So was time for something fun and new and different play style. i can tell you right now your problem is your skills and runes..do some reasearch man you are using some of the worst possible skill and rune combinations..pm me if you need help i am glad to help you in depth. edit typo | ||
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iLLusive
United States274 Posts
sigh | ||
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sc2terran
United States61 Posts
On July 18 2012 09:44 iLLusive wrote: Sorry if you feel that way but I am not 60 and this build was given to me by a friend who plays a barb sighmy barb is deep in act 3 with about 1.5 mil of gear total, pm me if you want a good build. | ||
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ragz_gt
9172 Posts
This is the build I use for tank, and switch 3 passive to ruthless / weapon mastery / berserker rage when solo. Very sturdy but low DPS | ||
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sc2terran
United States61 Posts
On July 18 2012 13:14 ragz_gt wrote: http://us.battle.net/d3/en/calculator/barbarian#WVYRSk!bVX!ccZZcc This is the build I use for tank, and switch 3 passive to ruthless / weapon mastery / berserker rage when solo. Very sturdy but low DPS this is a very good build and should be used as a reference and starting point for anyone wanting to build a serious tank barb. note though that gear is a huge part of a tanking barb. | ||
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Novalisk
Israel1818 Posts
On July 18 2012 14:02 sc2terran wrote: this is a very good build and should be used as a reference and starting point for anyone wanting to build a serious tank barb. note though that gear is a huge part of a tanking barb. Ehhh... There are better tanking skills to get. 1. Superstition>Inspiring Presence 2. On frenzy, Sidearm>Maniac due to how LoH works. 3. Leap with Iron Impact, and I'd also say threatening shout is better than Ground Stomp. But honestly, going full tank is kinda meh. Sure it's nice if you want to progress through the quests, but i'd rather play with a 20k DPS barb who can just about tank everything, than a 10k DPS barb who can tank 3 packs at once. | ||
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ragz_gt
9172 Posts
On July 18 2012 14:45 Novalisk wrote: Ehhh... There are better tanking skills to get. 1. Superstition>Inspiring Presence 2. On frenzy, Sidearm>Maniac due to how LoH works. 3. Leap with Iron Impact, and I'd also say threatening shout is better than Ground Stomp. But honestly, going full tank is kinda meh. Sure it's nice if you want to progress through the quests, but i'd rather play with a 20k DPS barb who can just about tank everything, than a 10k DPS barb who can tank 3 packs at once. Agree on Superstition, but I don't need the DR from it and Inspiring give me easier time keep friends buffed. and 400 regen is nice to have. My build is actually really low LoH, only 400 from weapon socket. I have 900 regen before inspiring and 1300 after, and Revenge as main source of heal (Furious Charge as back up), and Maniac added damage to Revenge works alot better for me. I actually switched around with Leap / Threatening with Furious Charge, and found Furious works best in my situation. Ground Stomp is not an option to remove since I need it for party play. Threatening works best for tank but alot time I try to train mobs to specific locations for DH friends (in Tower levels mostly) and without a movement skill I keep get stuck when they get too many. Leap is nice but doesn't add a whole lot to survival. Furious Charge give me a way out of blockade and a second heal when I need it. For solo play I switch all 3 passive to DPS skills and is at 18k, which is enough for A2. | ||
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Trang
Australia324 Posts
On July 18 2012 14:45 Novalisk wrote: Ehhh... There are better tanking skills to get. 1. Superstition>Inspiring Presence 2. On frenzy, Sidearm>Maniac due to how LoH works. 3. Leap with Iron Impact, and I'd also say threatening shout is better than Ground Stomp. But honestly, going full tank is kinda meh. Sure it's nice if you want to progress through the quests, but i'd rather play with a 20k DPS barb who can just about tank everything, than a 10k DPS barb who can tank 3 packs at once. As a tank barb, it is very possible to tank 3 packs as once with 45k DPS (100K with WotB), which is what I do at the moment. However it is all about gear, gear gear. The skills you pick can get more or less tanky, depending on how you are geared. I would say that pretty much only Frenzy (Sidearm), Revenge (Provocation), War Cry (Impunity) and Nerves of Steel are mandatory. By the way, I agree that Superstition > Inspiring Presence. And that Sidearm > Maniac. Not only is Sidearm better for LoH if you're using it (I don't use LoH by the way), it provides more AoE damage, and also better single target damage than Maniac. So there is pretty much no reason at all to use Maniac. (edit 2: see bottom for discussion on Frenzy) Now moving onto general info about tanky 1h+shield barbs for the two people that asked about it on page 116. My take on 1H+Shield Tanky DPS Barbs I suggest looking at a post I made a few pages ago which sets out my gear and skills http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=15414031 A tanky 1H+Shield Barb does not necessarily mean a Barb with zero DPS. I have now actually got my DPS to 45k while improving my EHP by a further 10%. 1. It is expensive, but also very versatile: Gear, gear, gear, is what makes or breaks the tank DPS barb. He is not cheap to gear up. It is much cheaper to gear up a WW/Tornado barb to solo farm the same content at the same rate. However, there are advantages. You can be more useful in games with parties, because you do not rely on huge clumps of mobs to do damage, stay alive, or keep your fury up. As for PvP, I would think the tanky DPS barb will fare better, since the WW/Tornado barb will struggle to keep the fury up on so few targets who will be kiting you. 2. Tank first, build DPS later: You first must work out how tanky you need to be in order to survive in Act 3/4. Once you can survive comfortably, then you slowly replace item slots one at a time to increase your DPS while maintaining a similar (or even higher) EHP. You need to be tanky enough to stand in a white crowd of mobs, and survive primarily using Revenge procs for a good half minute or so. If you can't do this, you won't survive elite fights. Abilities like Leap/Furious Charge/Ignore Pain are only there to save you whenever you get unlucky and Revenge doesn't proc (they are panic buttons!). Because of their cooldowns you just can't rely on them as the primary tanking skill. This leads onto my next point. 3. Your skills depend on your gear and playstyle: As I said above, I think that only Frenzy (Sidearm), Revenge (Provocation), War Cry (Impunity) and Nerves of Steel are mandatory. I would consider a FULL tank build to be something like Frenzy, Revenge, War Cry, Threatening Shout, Furious Charge, Leap/Ignore Pain with Nerves of Steel, Tough as Nails and Superstition. As your gear becomes more tanky, you can gradually switch out abilities for DPS. First skill I would add is Wrath of the Berserker (Insanity). The extra damage, and immunity from CC effects, are crucial to taking down difficult elites before they kill you. Next I would add Berserker's Rage (Marauder's Rage) for the extra 30% damage. As far as DPS skills go for a Tanky barb, I think those two are sufficient. Which skills to favour out of Threatening Shout, Furious Charge, Leap and Ignore Pain are your own personal preference. As for passives, the first to drop is Superstition, and then Tough as Nails. I would probably drop Superstition for Ruthless before dropping one of my defensive skills for Berserker's Rage. Also, personally, I find that Weapons Master does not provide a big enough DPS increase to make it worthwhile to drop Tough as Nails. Couple other notes on passives, I do not rate Brawler at all. Sure you will often find yourself surrounded by many mobs. But the hardest battles are those where you are up against Elites without any extra trash mobs. If there are many mobs around, Revenge should get you through the fight. When there are no trash mobs around, you want maximum single target DPS so you can kill it before your Revenge sustain is not able to keep up. Edit: in a party you will also consider ground stomp to keep mobs off your DPSers. 4. Understand effective hit points (EHP): You will need to know the relationship between VIT, RES, ARMOR and %LIFE on how it affects your EHP. There are numerous useful guides out there. I will not go into it. You might also find an EHP calculator to be useful. Just keep in mind a combination of all these stats will greatly increase your EHP, and there is no need to focus on getting one stat as high as possible. It is also cheaper to find a shoulder with 120 VIT and 60 RES, than it is to find a shoulder with 100 VIT and 70 RES, and guess what, the EHP of the first is probably better (depending on your current stats). As I said in point 1. Stack your EHP until you can comfortably survive in a crowd of Act 3 trash mobs with mostly just Revenge. 5. Block chance is king: Bonus block chance is really big. You are a 1H + Shield user. Why would you not try to maximise your block chance? You may as well get 50% extra dps as a 2hander if you aren't utilising your shield. The effect of block chance is hard to quantify from the character sheet alone. However, my experience, and the experience of many others shows that it makes a HUGE difference. You want all the block chance you can afford. Buy a shield with high block chance and decent ALL RES. They are not expensive. Do NOT waste money on a Storm Shield, they are overpriced and their block amount is lower than the Sacred Shield. Get ONLY a Sacred Shield (iLvl 63). Start out with a 20% block chance with 70+ Res Sacred Shield. 20% is the highest natural block chance without any +%block attributes on the shield. These should be dirt cheap. Once you have more cash, try to get a higher block chance (27 to 29% is great) and then extra attributes like STR/VIT/CRIT once you have even more money (but these are expensive). Helm of Command is so easy to get that it should be mandatory. One with average, but still useful, roles is cheap (meaning VIT with a bit of STR, or maybe a socket). Justice Lantern is very expensive, but if you can afford one, get one, though I would only try to get one once you are at the stage where you are thinking about trading tankiness for DPS --- since before that point you really just need to focus on maximising that EHP for as cheap as possible. 6. Life on Hit is a nice but don't rely on it: Everyone that says you need X minimum LoH to tank Act 3 is just stating their own personal experience. If you have sufficient EHP, Revenge with the occasional Furious Charge will be enough sustain to keep you alive. Think of LoH merely as reducing the EHP bar you need to reach to tank Act 3. But consider this for a moment. Once you are sufficiently tanky, you will be replacing gear for more DPS. Here's an example. Is it easier to replace an amulet with 100 STR and 200 VIT for an amulet with 200 STR and 200 VIT, or to replace an amulet with 100 STR, 100 VIT and 300 LoH for an amulet with 200 STR, 100 VIT and 300 LoH. You guessed it, the upgraded LoH amulet is WAY more expensive. Another example, you have a 1H 800 DPS sword. And now you want more DPS. Well, getting a 950 DPS 1Hander with 300 LoH is going to cost you as much as it costs you to just get a 1050 or 1100 DPS 1Hander without LoH. Moral of the story. LoH is always welcome, and certainly nice. But do NOT rely on it to tank, because once you do this it will be much more expensive to replace gear for more DPS. Of course it is always useful to hold onto to some LoH items (even if the DPS is not good) for switching when you need to take on Diablo or something, because in these instances you don't really care how long it takes right? Edit: the same can be said for life regen. Relying on it makes it harder to replace gear, as it's an extra attribute you have to find on your gear (and let's face it the 3 preferred stats for AH searching is inadequate already, and we don't need life regen to make item finding harder). 7. Adding DPS --- Skills first, STR second, CRIT last: Okay so you can tank Act 3/4 now, but you kill things slow. How do you approach adding more DPS? Tweak your skills using the method described in point 3 first. Why? Firstly, it costs nothing, and you can tweak as much as you want through trial and error to see how much DPS you can get away with. Secondly, you will eventually be working towards a balanced tanky/DPS skill set up (something like my skill set up). Consider again point 2: tank first, DPS later. If you know you can tank effectively with a balanced skill set up, then you know that any further items you buy to increase DPS will not reduce your tanking ability provided it maintains your current EHP. If, however, you don't listen to me, and you spent millions of gold to have 25k DPS with a full tank skill setup, and you decide you want to work towards that 40k DPS, then guess what --- you might find with your new skills that you are no longer able to tank, and you have to replace all your gear AGAIN. Next is gear. I did say STR then CRIT (chance and damage), but really this is just a guideline. Whatever you can get your hands on is good. However, keep in mind that generally speaking, armor with VIT/RES/STR is easier to come by than VIT/RES/less STR/CRIT for the same price. DPS calculators will help you work out how best to increase your DPS. Keep in mind also that STR does increase your Armor. Cost and armor are the reasons why I suggest STR as your first goal. As for attack speed, it is nice, but don't give it any special treatment over a similar dps increase from STR or CRIT. Why? Revenge, which is a great source of AoE damage does not scale off IAS. So it's nice, but not necessary. These are my personal opinions, and my approach to gearing up a Tanky DPS Barb. I hope you enjoy being a Tanky DPS Barb. It may not be as flashy as the WW/Tornado Barb. It certainly isn't cheap. But it is versatile. It can handle solo/party situations equally well. It can take on huge crowds of mobs, any elite packs, and bosses. It doesn't depend on a high concentration of enemies. It can run past stuff you can't be bothered killing. How many other barbs can say that they can face tank 3 elite packs at once while doing 40k+ dps? Edit 2: Extra note on Frenzy: Ok, so given that many people do not agree on Sidearm v Maniac, I've looked into it a bit more. Firstly, there are varying reports about whether the Sidearm axe grants extra LoH or not: http://eu.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/4888178773 It may be bugged, nobody seems to knows for sure. I can't tell you either way because I don't use LoH. Secondly, here is a thread with discussion on the pros and cons of Sidearm and Maniac: http://eu.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/4848675017 I think it summarises well the different arguments people are making. It appears from this that Sidearm and Maniac are within the same ball park. Differences in effectiveness probably depend on your setup of gear and other skills. Anyhow, these are my reasons for me using Sidearm. 1. A reliable 27.5% dps boost on a single target, that does not depend on getting Frenzy stacks. Keepin Frenzy stacks might sound trivial, but if you think about it, the hardest fights are those elite fights where they kite you a lot and/or throw down effects that you have to kite (eg Frozen/Arcane etc). In these fights expect to lose your stacks often. Why are you trying to boost your ability to clear lots of trash mobs (which frankly you can just ignore and run past since you are a Tanky Barb), when you should be focussing on making the hardest fights easier (these are the important fights too since they drop the loot!). In these difficult fights, you're really looking more realistically at an average of 10-15% damage boost from Maniac. 2. Since I'm a Tanky Barb my only 2 sources of damage are Frenzy and Revenge, so Maniac is boosting only Revenge. Revenge damage is nice, but I don't rely on it for damage, so I don't consider boosting it with Maniac a big deal. Like I said before, the hardest fights are those ones with just elites, and so your Revenge won't proc all that much. In addition with those kiting elite mobs, your Revenge probably will only manage to hit one target at a time. In these difficult fights, do I want a 10-15% overall damage buff or a solid 27.5% boost that can sometimes hit targets that aren't in range of your Revenge too. 3. Sidearm helps clear those annoying ranged mobs, so you don't have to go chasing them as much. | ||
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ragz_gt
9172 Posts
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WaZ
United States108 Posts
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Trang
Australia324 Posts
On July 19 2012 02:50 ragz_gt wrote: While everyone say sidearm > maniac, I tried both and found Maniac give me a much easier time keep HP full with Revenge (Also uses +6 crit chance IK belt with IK boots for max effect). Though I might find more use of Sidearm when I can afford to boost DPS pass 20k... Not sure what you mean, but Maniac shouldn't change the amount of sustain you get from Revenge at all. Revenge gives a flat 5% HP (translates to 5% EHP) per target hit regardless of damage. On July 19 2012 05:49 WaZ wrote: if you have a belt with +frenzy is maniac better or is the sidearm axe effected Sorry mate, I don't know whether the belt will affect the Sidearm Axe, as I don't own a +frenzy damage belt. Whatever the answer, I feel that the advantages of Sidearm still outweighs Maniac for a 1H + Shield Barb. | ||
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poor newb
United States1879 Posts
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bruteMax
Canada339 Posts
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Schwopzi
Netherlands954 Posts
On July 19 2012 11:35 Trang wrote: Regarding Frenzy, I made an edit in my post above, check it out. Not sure what you mean, but Maniac shouldn't change the amount of sustain you get from Revenge at all. Revenge gives a flat 5% HP (translates to 5% EHP) per target hit regardless of damage. Sorry mate, I don't know whether the belt will affect the Sidearm Axe, as I don't own a +frenzy damage belt. Whatever the answer, I feel that the advantages of Sidearm still outweighs Maniac for a 1H + Shield Barb. Maybe he runs %lifesteal? | ||
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