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crms
United States11933 Posts
On July 14 2012 23:14 Catyoul wrote: Hey barbs ! I read that some builds use an offhand and don't care about its stats. Would that be worth something as an offhand ? ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/n6rlc.png) thats a good stat stick for tornado build, only way it could be better is LoH, but nice str, crit and socket. | ||
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heishe
Germany2284 Posts
On July 20 2012 01:42 crms wrote: thats a good stat stick for tornado build, only way it could be better is LoH, but nice str, crit and socket. The problem is that WW barbs use the offhand for LOH, since it's cheap to get 1000+ loh on a low DPS offhand. Crit is nice, but without LOH it's not worth a lot, I think. Don't know though. Might be worth a lot to someone that has a very high damage + high LOH mainhand (who does, though?) | ||
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TheRealArtemis
687 Posts
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Juicyfruit
Canada5484 Posts
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kethers
United States719 Posts
On July 20 2012 02:59 TheRealArtemis wrote: Sigh. is everybody a WW barb now? No love for the tank barbs >: ) Most Sprint/WW Barbs came from tank barbs. Sure I can tank and never die in tank gear, but personally I don't see the fun in that. I'd rather constantly run at high speeds, kill shit fast, and full clear Inferno A3 under an hour. | ||
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trinxified
Canada7774 Posts
I don't want to jump the bandwagon by using WW/sprint build, since I want to be useful for group/party play. I'm leaning towards dual-wielding for more crit damage capability. What do you guys think? | ||
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Houss
Latvia80 Posts
Now act III feels impossible with my play style/gear/skills. I really need some help to decide what I need to upgrade and change in my build. I played Hell with heavy dps build- 2h wep, high str gear. Basically I kinda did the same in act I inferno just a bit more careful. In act II I changed my build to 1h and shield. Than I focused more on survival than dmg. Here's my items and skill build : Gear 1 Gear 2 My Stats Hope someone will help me ! Best regards Matīss | ||
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Novalisk
Israel1818 Posts
On July 20 2012 06:25 Houss wrote: So I just killed Belial, it was the hardest fight in this game so far for me. Now act III feels impossible with my play style/gear/skills. I really need some help to decide what I need to upgrade and change in my build. I played Hell with heavy dps build- 2h wep, high str gear. Basically I kinda did the same in act I inferno just a bit more careful. In act II I changed my build to 1h and shield. Than I focused more on survival than dmg. Here's my items and skill build : Gear 1 Gear 2 My Stats Hope someone will help me ! Best regards Matīss 1. You're using skills a 2H DPS barb would use, yet you have 1h+shield tank barb items. Please see the tank skill discussion in the last page. 2. You're severely lacking in resists, you want to keep armor close to your resists in a 10:1 ratio. | ||
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Trang
Australia324 Posts
On July 20 2012 05:54 trinxified wrote: I've got 100 mil to spend for a full re-gear, do you guys think I can build a semi-tank/40-50k dps Barb that can solo Act 3 efficiently? I don't want to jump the bandwagon by using WW/sprint build, since I want to be useful for group/party play. I'm leaning towards dual-wielding for more crit damage capability. What do you guys think? Hey mate, on the previous page I've set out my approach to building what I like to call a Tanky DPS Barb. Even though it's 1H+Shield, it fits what you want in relation to being useful for group play. If you want to dual-wield you're going to want to go WW/Sprint, because you need that big LoH/sustain to make up for the lack of a shield. Something in between won't work very well. 100 mill is more than enough to build a good tank with 40-50k dps, provided you are good at finding items cheap and have the patience for it. I've spent less than 100 mill on my gear (but lots of items were bought at bargain prices). As for farming efficiency, I can't say I can clear Inferno Act 3 in an hour. But I can run Seigebreaker + Cydaea + Azmodan in an hour. And that's with 99% of elite packs presenting no danger of death to me. It won't be as fast as WW/Sprint, but you will be more useful in parties  On July 20 2012 00:28 bruteMax wrote: Thanks Trang for your really great writeup on sword+board. You're welcome, mate. Feels like Sword and Board is mostly forgotten these days ever since WW/Sprint became the flavour of the month. I've found it hard to find good up to date opinions on how to build them because people only talk about WW/Sprint these days, so I'm more than happy to share what I know! | ||
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Jasarn
Australia101 Posts
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Ricjames
Czech Republic1047 Posts
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BlueBird.
United States3890 Posts
On July 20 2012 12:14 Trang wrote: Hey mate, on the previous page I've set out my approach to building what I like to call a Tanky DPS Barb. Even though it's 1H+Shield, it fits what you want in relation to being useful for group play. If you want to dual-wield you're going to want to go WW/Sprint, because you need that big LoH/sustain to make up for the lack of a shield. Something in between won't work very well. 100 mill is more than enough to build a good tank with 40-50k dps, provided you are good at finding items cheap and have the patience for it. I've spent less than 100 mill on my gear (but lots of items were bought at bargain prices). As for farming efficiency, I can't say I can clear Inferno Act 3 in an hour. But I can run Seigebreaker + Cydaea + Azmodan in an hour. And that's with 99% of elite packs presenting no danger of death to me. It won't be as fast as WW/Sprint, but you will be more useful in parties You're welcome, mate. Feels like Sword and Board is mostly forgotten these days ever since WW/Sprint became the flavour of the month. I've found it hard to find good up to date opinions on how to build them because people only talk about WW/Sprint these days, so I'm more than happy to share what I know! I like your sword and shield guide, however I'd like to comment on storm shield... Stormshield isn't really overpriced, according to the ehp calculator I was using, block amount difference between a sacred and a stormshield doesn't matter whatsoever when i take a 70k hit(avg hit from act 3 mobs). Also you can't block the things that can actually kill you in act 3, molten, firechains, plagued etc. 5% elite reduction(extremely extremely important) and all resist and high block chance, make stormshield a really really cost effective item for survivability, especially if you get good dps stats on it. I have not seen a sacred under 50 mil that compares on an ehp calculator to my 8% crit stormshield, and have only seen a few above 100 million, the reason to go for a sacred is actually for crit + magic find + high resist + str/vit + good elite reduction + 7+block chance on the same piece, which you sadly can't get on a stomshield, so if your going for the best best best end game gear stormshield is not it, you can get much much better sacreds, I just haven't seen any of them on the ah, I think I saw a really good one for 180 mil once  . Considering my stormshield with 8 crit was only 30 mil, and I think they are cheaper now, I got a pretty damn good deal. Helm of command is good, it can have good stats for a barb and that block chance is great. Justice Lantern is just awful now, I don't recommend anyone ever getting one of these, they might be good defensively, but you can't block the stuff that can actually kill you, and the low ilvl of the ring makes it awful for dps stat rolls, which the ring is a great place to get.(low attack speed, low crit dmg, low crit chance, low min/max dmg, low resist rolls even) Basically I don't think people should be rocking justice lantern anymore. Only unique rings really worthwhile is skull grasp, and well rolled bul kathos) | ||
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trinxified
Canada7774 Posts
On July 20 2012 12:14 Trang wrote: Hey mate, on the previous page I've set out my approach to building what I like to call a Tanky DPS Barb. Even though it's 1H+Shield, it fits what you want in relation to being useful for group play. If you want to dual-wield you're going to want to go WW/Sprint, because you need that big LoH/sustain to make up for the lack of a shield. Something in between won't work very well. 100 mill is more than enough to build a good tank with 40-50k dps, provided you are good at finding items cheap and have the patience for it. I've spent less than 100 mill on my gear (but lots of items were bought at bargain prices). As for farming efficiency, I can't say I can clear Inferno Act 3 in an hour. But I can run Seigebreaker + Cydaea + Azmodan in an hour. And that's with 99% of elite packs presenting no danger of death to me. It won't be as fast as WW/Sprint, but you will be more useful in parties You're welcome, mate. Feels like Sword and Board is mostly forgotten these days ever since WW/Sprint became the flavour of the month. I've found it hard to find good up to date opinions on how to build them because people only talk about WW/Sprint these days, so I'm more than happy to share what I know! Thanks. I've been leaning towards the dual-wielding just for more crit dmg boost, and also because it's very HARD to find the right shield... plus I'm trying to just stack crit chance on gloves/helm/amulet/rings/bracers, instead of getting crit dmg as well, so sort of a cheaper way of doing it. Do you really think I can't do it without a shield? | ||
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Trang
Australia324 Posts
On July 21 2012 01:45 trinxified wrote: Thanks. I've been leaning towards the dual-wielding just for more crit dmg boost, and also because it's very HARD to find the right shield... plus I'm trying to just stack crit chance on gloves/helm/amulet/rings/bracers, instead of getting crit dmg as well, so sort of a cheaper way of doing it. Do you really think I can't do it without a shield? Well with sufficiently good gear, you will be able to get through Act 3, but its not optimal. As far as I know there are 3 main directions with barbs. First, there's the WW/Sprint dual wield Barb, which relies on LoH on many targets to stay alive. Secondly, there's the 2H Barb which bursts down elite packs with WotB and EQ before they kill you. Then there's the Tank barb, which survives on high damage mitigation (ie a shield) and Revenge. What you're suggesting puts you somewhere in between, so you aren't maximising the traits of either build. You will be less tanky than a shield barb, have less sustain than a WW/Sprint barb, and have less burst than a 2H Barb. Go ahead and experiment though if you want, I might be pleasantly surprised! As for shields. The boost to EHP from a shield is huge. With 46% block, EHP calculators tell me that I'm getting almost 100% extra EHP against blockable attacks (I go from 2200K EHP to 4040k EHP). Not something to scoff at! And that EHP boost is coming purely from the block chance. You don't even need an ideal shield. you can get 27% block chance 70 All Res sacred shields for under 1M (or 26% block for about 500k), which is easily under your 100M budget. | ||
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skyR
Canada13817 Posts
I just don't see the point in wearing a shield 24/7 when the majority of mobs don't hurt and die well before WotB ends. | ||
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trinxified
Canada7774 Posts
On July 21 2012 02:38 skyR wrote: Frenzy DW build is completely viable in Act III but obviously you should keep a shield on hand for the harder affix combinations. I did a frenzy DW build for a long time, both solo and group play. I've moved onto nado since it's faster but also more irritating because of jailer and mobs running away. You can switch between the two builds at any given time though. I just don't see the point in wearing a shield 24/7 when the majority of mobs don't hurt and die well before WotB ends. This is what I'm thinking to do... Have a backup shield. Do you mind sharing your build/gear/stats on dual wield? I don't plan to abuse ww/sprint though, since I don't plan on getting a lot of LoH, if any at all. | ||
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Trang
Australia324 Posts
On July 20 2012 21:36 BlueBird. wrote: I like your sword and shield guide, however I'd like to comment on storm shield... Stormshield isn't really overpriced, according to the ehp calculator I was using, block amount difference between a sacred and a stormshield doesn't matter whatsoever when i take a 70k hit(avg hit from act 3 mobs). Also you can't block the things that can actually kill you in act 3, molten, firechains, plagued etc. 5% elite reduction(extremely extremely important) and all resist and high block chance, make stormshield a really really cost effective item for survivability, especially if you get good dps stats on it. I have not seen a sacred under 50 mil that compares on an ehp calculator to my 8% crit stormshield, and have only seen a few above 100 million, the reason to go for a sacred is actually for crit + magic find + high resist + str/vit + good elite reduction + 7+block chance on the same piece, which you sadly can't get on a stomshield, so if your going for the best best best end game gear stormshield is not it, you can get much much better sacreds, I just haven't seen any of them on the ah, I think I saw a really good one for 180 mil once . Considering my stormshield with 8 crit was only 30 mil, and I think they are cheaper now, I got a pretty damn good deal. Helm of command is good, it can have good stats for a barb and that block chance is great. Justice Lantern is just awful now, I don't recommend anyone ever getting one of these, they might be good defensively, but you can't block the stuff that can actually kill you, and the low ilvl of the ring makes it awful for dps stat rolls, which the ring is a great place to get.(low attack speed, low crit dmg, low crit chance, low min/max dmg, low resist rolls even) Basically I don't think people should be rocking justice lantern anymore. Only unique rings really worthwhile is skull grasp, and well rolled bul kathos) Interesting post, and it motivated me to do some extra research on the numbers. I really like to have open discussions on this stuff! Below are a few of my thoughts after reading yours. Please note, my numbers are based off my own gear (ie EHP). Stormshield - block amount: Yes, it seems that if Act 3 mobs do on average around 70k damage a hit, then with my current gear (97% total damage reduction) the higher block amount of a sacred shield is wasted. Harder hitting mobs will mean there is some benefit from the higher block amount of sacred shields, but its small. So very good point you made here! Stormshield - elite damage reduction, and unblockable damage: Yep, I agree with your point how the main threat is elite damage, and often the dangerous stuff like Molten is not blockable. However, an elite damage reduction of 5% for me amounts to only an extra 120k EHP for me (from 2180k to 2300k). So it is useful if you can afford it, but not huge. To put it in perspective though, a typical Storm Shield will have 1000 Armor (+ extra 80 from STR) and 65 RES. Compared to a sacred shield with 1150-1200 Armor and 75-80 RES, thats an EHP decrease of around 60k for me. So the increase from 5% elite damage reduction is a measely 60k for me (or 2.7%), which is only equivalent to 40-45 VIT for me. Nice but not big. Let's continue the analysis Stormshield - cost: However, I'm not convinced that the Storm Shield is more cost effective. A 27% block sacred shield with 75 All Res will go for 1M. A 27% block chance Storm Shield will cost a lot more than that, probably 10M+, definitely no less than 5M. Adding some crit on these shields, the Sacred Shield will cost you 5-10M, meanwhile the SS would be easily 20M+. Of course the Storm Shield has the extra 80 STR too, but I have my other gear slots for STR, I want to maximise my block/crit with my shield. Block % cost effectiveness: My EHP calculators tell me that each 1% block chance gives me about 76k EHP against blockable attacks. This is huge. This means that a 27% block chance sacred shield with 75 RES which goes for 1M is WAY more cost effective against blockable attacks than the cheapest 3-4M Storm Shield with only 19-21% block. Against unblockable attacks, then yes Storm Shield is better, but only slightly as discussed above, and I reckon for the extra cost you can just get 50 VIT on your shield and it will fill in the gap against unblockable attacks AND give you a higher %block chance for blockable attacks. Justice Lantern: Considering that 1% block = 76k EHP for my gear, that's 836k extra EHP against blockable attacks from the 11% block chance of the justice lantern alone. Then there's the extra 100 Armor and 60 VIT. As far as defence goes, it's a hugely cost effective in terms of item slot use. 15-20M gold for 900K extra EHP on a single item slot is pretty good. And hey, at least it's not 40M+ like a Skull Grasp!. | ||
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trinxified
Canada7774 Posts
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skyR
Canada13817 Posts
On July 21 2012 02:48 trinxified wrote: This is what I'm thinking to do... Have a backup shield. Do you mind sharing your build/gear/stats on dual wield? I don't plan to abuse ww/sprint though, since I don't plan on getting a lot of LoH, if any at all. Build is your typical frenzy build that's more DPS oriented: http://us.battle.net/d3/en/calculator/barbarian#WiXVkP!VYZ!aaaccZ Stats: http://i.imgur.com/gc7zL.jpg You'd want more HP than me but its still doable with sub 40k hp. You don't want a HoC for DW unless you plan on keeping HoC on hand as well with the shield... it's nice but unnecessary. | ||
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trinxified
Canada7774 Posts
On July 21 2012 03:01 skyR wrote: Build is your typical frenzy build that's more DPS oriented: http://us.battle.net/d3/en/calculator/barbarian#WiXVkP!VYZ!aaaccZ Stats: http://i.imgur.com/gc7zL.jpg You'd want more HP than me but its still doable with sub 40k hp. Nice, more or less the build I"m thinking, but instead of Leap, I'm thinking of utilizing dreadnought charge for Life back, as I won't have LoH. Also, I'm not sure yet if I like weapons master, since I rather have 2 defensive passives (armor passives I guess), but I guess it depends on what you're doing? You have sword, so you benefit from 15% dmg, or do you also get the fury on hit bonus with your mighty weapon? With your gear/stats, you have no trouble tanking mobs? You have HUGE LoH though, so I'm sure that contributes to most of your tanking...  | ||
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