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On June 11 2011 22:55 Ace wrote:
I dont know who started it but when people do these massive "this is my list of pro town reads" and "this is my list of scum suspects" it leads to lots and lots of bad wagons and side tracking. Also easier for Scum to manipulate the town. Much simpler if the town just discusses a few suspects and moves on, while not giving up too much info on who is "pro-town" since that word is being thrown around so carelessly.
Taking this a step further, I don't see the point of "pro-town" lists at all. If you think they are pro-town, then defend/support them if they are accused. Otherwise, don't call attention to them unless you like having your strongest town reads getting killed by the mafia.
On the other hand, I absolutely agree that lists of scum suspects should be severely limited. I don't see the point of bringing up a list of more than 2 people (3 for a double lynch). Really, you should only bring up 1 person and push hard, but if you aren't sure the town will get behind you and give you a majority, 2 suspects is reasonable. Nobody who plays regularly is good enough to nail more than 2 mafia at a time outside of dumb luck anyways. And besides, it isn't like the town can kill off all of your suspects right away.
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my thoughts for this game:
town played like shit
i got demoralized night 2
listchecks are op because they are so damn unforgiving for mafia
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On June 13 2011 23:14 Qatol wrote:Show nested quote +On June 11 2011 22:55 Ace wrote:
I dont know who started it but when people do these massive "this is my list of pro town reads" and "this is my list of scum suspects" it leads to lots and lots of bad wagons and side tracking. Also easier for Scum to manipulate the town. Much simpler if the town just discusses a few suspects and moves on, while not giving up too much info on who is "pro-town" since that word is being thrown around so carelessly. Taking this a step further, I don't see the point of "pro-town" lists at all. If you think they are pro-town, then defend/support them if they are accused. Otherwise, don't call attention to them unless you like having your strongest town reads getting killed by the mafia. On the other hand, I absolutely agree that lists of scum suspects should be severely limited. I don't see the point of bringing up a list of more than 2 people (3 for a double lynch). Really, you should only bring up 1 person and push hard, but if you aren't sure the town will get behind you and give you a majority, 2 suspects is reasonable. Nobody who plays regularly is good enough to nail more than 2 mafia at a time outside of dumb luck anyways. And besides, it isn't like the town can kill off all of your suspects right away.
I see one problem with the first bit Qatol. When it comes to publishing medic lists it should be better to place them on reads than purely on facts such as experience or reputation. The exception being night 1 maybe, when most reads are still off. Medic lists with town reads can help determine the alignment of the guy who is posting them, and they are means by which town members can meaningfully discuss and contribute during nighttime. Of course the actual protection is better spend on an important player or role than on a simple town read, but medic lists where never meant to be more than guidelines. I guess there can be advantages to not revealing such reads in public, but doesn't the potential benefit from discussion outweight the information mafia can get from it?
My biggest problem with posting lists of mafia is that it is way too easy to base these on "connections" or even "patterns" between players. Connections such as "he defended this guy that I was suspicious of and wanted to lynch", or patterns such as only focusing on inactives (my own mistake), is a simplification of scumhunting that is way too general and easy to manipulate. It feels like a shortcut simply to win an argument by bringing it down to a level where it can hardly be debated.
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On June 14 2011 01:11 Barundar wrote:Show nested quote +On June 13 2011 23:14 Qatol wrote:On June 11 2011 22:55 Ace wrote:
I dont know who started it but when people do these massive "this is my list of pro town reads" and "this is my list of scum suspects" it leads to lots and lots of bad wagons and side tracking. Also easier for Scum to manipulate the town. Much simpler if the town just discusses a few suspects and moves on, while not giving up too much info on who is "pro-town" since that word is being thrown around so carelessly. Taking this a step further, I don't see the point of "pro-town" lists at all. If you think they are pro-town, then defend/support them if they are accused. Otherwise, don't call attention to them unless you like having your strongest town reads getting killed by the mafia. On the other hand, I absolutely agree that lists of scum suspects should be severely limited. I don't see the point of bringing up a list of more than 2 people (3 for a double lynch). Really, you should only bring up 1 person and push hard, but if you aren't sure the town will get behind you and give you a majority, 2 suspects is reasonable. Nobody who plays regularly is good enough to nail more than 2 mafia at a time outside of dumb luck anyways. And besides, it isn't like the town can kill off all of your suspects right away. I see one problem with the first bit Qatol. When it comes to publishing medic lists it should be better to place them on reads than purely on facts such as experience or reputation. The exception being night 1 maybe, when most reads are still off. Medic lists with town reads can help determine the alignment of the guy who is posting them, and they are means by which town members can meaningfully discuss and contribute during nighttime. Of course the actual protection is better spend on an important player or role than on a simple town read, but medic lists where never meant to be more than guidelines. I guess there can be advantages to not revealing such reads in public, but doesn't the potential benefit from discussion outweight the information mafia can get from it? My biggest problem with posting lists of mafia is that it is way too easy to base these on "connections" or even "patterns" between players. Connections such as "he defended this guy that I was suspicious of and wanted to lynch", or patterns such as only focusing on inactives (my own mistake), is a simplification of scumhunting that is way too general and easy to manipulate. It feels like a shortcut simply to win an argument by bringing it down to a level where it can hardly be debated.
Why does the medic need the town's + mafia's opinion on who to protect anyways? Don't protect the people who are major suspects, and focus on protecting people who look like they might have a role or might be on the right track as far as scumhunting goes. Plus medic lists can be manipulated by the mafia just like everything else. They can try to induce the medics to protect people they don't really want to hit anyways and it lets the mafia know if a primary target of theirs is probably a safe hit.
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Radfield
Canada2720 Posts
Post it Ver, you know you want to...
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United States22154 Posts
On June 17 2011 09:32 Radfield wrote:
Post it Ver, you know you want to...
I'm sure he'll post it soon.
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Radfield
Canada2720 Posts
Well i'm sure he's a busy man, probably busier than blizzard in fact, so if it takes him a while that's cool 
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United States22154 Posts
PYP:I Postgame writeup
Just putting this here so anyone reading this thread in the future can easily find the post game. ^_^
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EPT
