• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 06:35
CEST 12:35
KST 19:35
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
TL Team Map Contest #5: Presented by Monster Energy3Code S RO8 Preview: herO, Zoun, Bunny, Classic7Code S RO8 Preview: Rogue, GuMiho, Solar, Maru3BGE Stara Zagora 2025: Info & Preview27Code S RO12 Preview: GuMiho, Bunny, SHIN, ByuN3
Community News
Code S RO8 Results + RO4 Bracket (2025 Season 2)8BGE Stara Zagora 2025 - Replay Pack2Weekly Cups (June 2-8): herO doubles down1[BSL20] ProLeague: Bracket Stage & Dates9GSL Ro4 and Finals moved to Sunday June 15th13
StarCraft 2
General
TL Team Map Contest #5: Presented by Monster Energy The SCII GOAT: A statistical Evaluation Code S RO8 Results + RO4 Bracket (2025 Season 2) How herO can make history in the Code S S2 finals Jim claims he and Firefly were involved in match-fixing
Tourneys
RSL: Revival, a new crowdfunded tournament series [GSL 2025] Code S: Season 2 - Ro8 - Group A [GSL 2025] Code S: Season 2 - Ro8 - Group B SOOPer7s Showmatches 2025 Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament
Strategy
[G] Darkgrid Layout Simple Questions Simple Answers [G] PvT Cheese: 13 Gate Proxy Robo
Custom Maps
[UMS] Zillion Zerglings
External Content
Mutation # 477 Slow and Steady Mutation # 476 Charnel House Mutation # 475 Hard Target Mutation # 474 Futile Resistance
Brood War
General
BW General Discussion Recent recommended BW games BGH auto balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ FlaSh Witnesses SCV Pull Off the Impossible vs Shu StarCraft & BroodWar Campaign Speedrun Quest
Tourneys
Small VOD Thread 2.0 [Megathread] Daily Proleagues [BSL20] ProLeague Bracket Stage - Day 4 [BSL20] ProLeague Bracket Stage - Day 3
Strategy
I am doing this better than progamers do. [G] How to get started on ladder as a new Z player
Other Games
General Games
Nintendo Switch Thread Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Path of Exile Beyond All Reason What do you want from future RTS games?
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread Vanilla Mini Mafia
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine UK Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Vape Nation Thread
Fan Clubs
Maru Fan Club Serral Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
Korean Music Discussion [Manga] One Piece
Sports
NHL Playoffs 2024 TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 2024 - 2025 Football Thread Formula 1 Discussion
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
A Better Routine For Progame…
TrAiDoS
StarCraft improvement
iopq
Heero Yuy & the Tax…
KrillinFromwales
I was completely wrong ab…
jameswatts
Need Your Help/Advice
Glider
Trip to the Zoo
micronesia
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 26229 users

Pick Your Power Insane! - Page 105

Forum Index > TL Mafia
Post a Reply
Prev 1 103 104 105
Qatol
Profile Blog Joined November 2006
United States3165 Posts
June 13 2011 14:14 GMT
#2081
On June 11 2011 22:55 Ace wrote:
I dont know who started it but when people do these massive "this is my list of pro town reads" and "this is my list of scum suspects" it leads to lots and lots of bad wagons and side tracking. Also easier for Scum to manipulate the town. Much simpler if the town just discusses a few suspects and moves on, while not giving up too much info on who is "pro-town" since that word is being thrown around so carelessly.

Taking this a step further, I don't see the point of "pro-town" lists at all. If you think they are pro-town, then defend/support them if they are accused. Otherwise, don't call attention to them unless you like having your strongest town reads getting killed by the mafia.

On the other hand, I absolutely agree that lists of scum suspects should be severely limited. I don't see the point of bringing up a list of more than 2 people (3 for a double lynch). Really, you should only bring up 1 person and push hard, but if you aren't sure the town will get behind you and give you a majority, 2 suspects is reasonable. Nobody who plays regularly is good enough to nail more than 2 mafia at a time outside of dumb luck anyways. And besides, it isn't like the town can kill off all of your suspects right away.
Uff Da
Caller
Profile Blog Joined September 2007
Poland8075 Posts
June 13 2011 15:11 GMT
#2082
my thoughts for this game:

town played like shit
i got demoralized night 2
listchecks are op because they are so damn unforgiving for mafia
Watch me fail at Paradox: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=397564
Barundar
Profile Joined May 2010
Denmark1582 Posts
June 13 2011 16:11 GMT
#2083
On June 13 2011 23:14 Qatol wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 11 2011 22:55 Ace wrote:
I dont know who started it but when people do these massive "this is my list of pro town reads" and "this is my list of scum suspects" it leads to lots and lots of bad wagons and side tracking. Also easier for Scum to manipulate the town. Much simpler if the town just discusses a few suspects and moves on, while not giving up too much info on who is "pro-town" since that word is being thrown around so carelessly.

Taking this a step further, I don't see the point of "pro-town" lists at all. If you think they are pro-town, then defend/support them if they are accused. Otherwise, don't call attention to them unless you like having your strongest town reads getting killed by the mafia.

On the other hand, I absolutely agree that lists of scum suspects should be severely limited. I don't see the point of bringing up a list of more than 2 people (3 for a double lynch). Really, you should only bring up 1 person and push hard, but if you aren't sure the town will get behind you and give you a majority, 2 suspects is reasonable. Nobody who plays regularly is good enough to nail more than 2 mafia at a time outside of dumb luck anyways. And besides, it isn't like the town can kill off all of your suspects right away.

I see one problem with the first bit Qatol. When it comes to publishing medic lists it should be better to place them on reads than purely on facts such as experience or reputation. The exception being night 1 maybe, when most reads are still off. Medic lists with town reads can help determine the alignment of the guy who is posting them, and they are means by which town members can meaningfully discuss and contribute during nighttime. Of course the actual protection is better spend on an important player or role than on a simple town read, but medic lists where never meant to be more than guidelines. I guess there can be advantages to not revealing such reads in public, but doesn't the potential benefit from discussion outweight the information mafia can get from it?

My biggest problem with posting lists of mafia is that it is way too easy to base these on "connections" or even "patterns" between players. Connections such as "he defended this guy that I was suspicious of and wanted to lynch", or patterns such as only focusing on inactives (my own mistake), is a simplification of scumhunting that is way too general and easy to manipulate. It feels like a shortcut simply to win an argument by bringing it down to a level where it can hardly be debated.
Bartundar
Qatol
Profile Blog Joined November 2006
United States3165 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-06-14 03:03:24
June 14 2011 02:37 GMT
#2084
On June 14 2011 01:11 Barundar wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 13 2011 23:14 Qatol wrote:
On June 11 2011 22:55 Ace wrote:
I dont know who started it but when people do these massive "this is my list of pro town reads" and "this is my list of scum suspects" it leads to lots and lots of bad wagons and side tracking. Also easier for Scum to manipulate the town. Much simpler if the town just discusses a few suspects and moves on, while not giving up too much info on who is "pro-town" since that word is being thrown around so carelessly.

Taking this a step further, I don't see the point of "pro-town" lists at all. If you think they are pro-town, then defend/support them if they are accused. Otherwise, don't call attention to them unless you like having your strongest town reads getting killed by the mafia.

On the other hand, I absolutely agree that lists of scum suspects should be severely limited. I don't see the point of bringing up a list of more than 2 people (3 for a double lynch). Really, you should only bring up 1 person and push hard, but if you aren't sure the town will get behind you and give you a majority, 2 suspects is reasonable. Nobody who plays regularly is good enough to nail more than 2 mafia at a time outside of dumb luck anyways. And besides, it isn't like the town can kill off all of your suspects right away.

I see one problem with the first bit Qatol. When it comes to publishing medic lists it should be better to place them on reads than purely on facts such as experience or reputation. The exception being night 1 maybe, when most reads are still off. Medic lists with town reads can help determine the alignment of the guy who is posting them, and they are means by which town members can meaningfully discuss and contribute during nighttime. Of course the actual protection is better spend on an important player or role than on a simple town read, but medic lists where never meant to be more than guidelines. I guess there can be advantages to not revealing such reads in public, but doesn't the potential benefit from discussion outweight the information mafia can get from it?

My biggest problem with posting lists of mafia is that it is way too easy to base these on "connections" or even "patterns" between players. Connections such as "he defended this guy that I was suspicious of and wanted to lynch", or patterns such as only focusing on inactives (my own mistake), is a simplification of scumhunting that is way too general and easy to manipulate. It feels like a shortcut simply to win an argument by bringing it down to a level where it can hardly be debated.

Why does the medic need the town's + mafia's opinion on who to protect anyways? Don't protect the people who are major suspects, and focus on protecting people who look like they might have a role or might be on the right track as far as scumhunting goes. Plus medic lists can be manipulated by the mafia just like everything else. They can try to induce the medics to protect people they don't really want to hit anyways and it lets the mafia know if a primary target of theirs is probably a safe hit.
Uff Da
Radfield
Profile Joined September 2009
Canada2720 Posts
June 17 2011 00:32 GMT
#2085
Post it Ver, you know you want to...
GMarshal
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
United States22154 Posts
June 17 2011 00:42 GMT
#2086
On June 17 2011 09:32 Radfield wrote:
Post it Ver, you know you want to...

I'm sure he'll post it soon.

Moderator
Radfield
Profile Joined September 2009
Canada2720 Posts
June 17 2011 01:10 GMT
#2087
Well i'm sure he's a busy man, probably busier than blizzard in fact, so if it takes him a while that's cool
GMarshal
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
United States22154 Posts
June 23 2011 14:56 GMT
#2088
PYP:I Postgame writeup

Just putting this here so anyone reading this thread in the future can easily find the post game. ^_^
Moderator
Prev 1 103 104 105
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 25m
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
OGKoka 234
ProTech59
MindelVK 25
StarCraft: Brood War
Calm 6559
firebathero 1912
Hyuk 811
Mini 277
Zeus 237
Stork 229
EffOrt 201
PianO 129
sorry 101
ToSsGirL 100
[ Show more ]
JulyZerg 85
Killer 70
Light 68
Dewaltoss 61
ZerO 50
Rush 41
Nal_rA 31
Barracks 24
zelot 23
HiyA 13
SilentControl 8
ivOry 6
Hm[arnc] 6
Noble 4
Dota 2
XcaliburYe582
420jenkins538
Counter-Strike
Stewie2K965
shoxiejesuss781
allub168
Super Smash Bros
C9.Mang0352
Other Games
singsing1591
Happy463
Nina126
XaKoH 94
Lowko93
QueenE24
ZerO(Twitch)5
Organizations
Dota 2
PGL Dota 2 - Secondary Stream3940
PGL Dota 2 - Main Stream3689
StarCraft: Brood War
UltimateBattle 29
lovetv 5
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 13 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• iopq 2
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
Dota 2
• lizZardDota2121
League of Legends
• Stunt623
Upcoming Events
WardiTV Invitational
25m
HiGhDrA vs Nicoract
MaNa vs HiGhDrA
HiGhDrA vs Reynor
Nicoract vs Reynor
MaNa vs Nicoract
MaNa vs Reynor
MaxPax vs Spirit
Krystianer vs Spirit
OSC
2h 25m
BSL 2v2 ProLeague S3
8h 25m
Korean StarCraft League
16h 25m
SOOP
22h 25m
sOs vs Percival
CranKy Ducklings
23h 25m
WardiTV Invitational
1d
Cheesadelphia
1d 4h
CSO Cup
1d 6h
BSL: ProLeague
1d 7h
Hawk vs UltrA
Sziky vs spx
TerrOr vs JDConan
[ Show More ]
GSL Code S
1d 21h
Rogue vs herO
Classic vs GuMiho
Sparkling Tuna Cup
1d 23h
BSL: ProLeague
2 days
Bonyth vs Dewalt
Cross vs Doodle
MadiNho vs Dragon
Replay Cast
2 days
Wardi Open
3 days
Replay Cast
3 days
Replay Cast
3 days
RSL Revival
3 days
Cure vs Percival
ByuN vs Spirit
RSL Revival
4 days
herO vs sOs
Zoun vs Clem
Replay Cast
5 days
The PondCast
5 days
RSL Revival
5 days
Serral vs SHIN
Solar vs Cham
Replay Cast
6 days
RSL Revival
6 days
Reynor vs Scarlett
ShoWTimE vs Classic
Liquipedia Results

Completed

CSL Season 17: Qualifier 2
BGE Stara Zagora 2025
Heroes 10 EU

Ongoing

JPL Season 2
BSL 2v2 Season 3
BSL Season 20
KCM Race Survival 2025 Season 2
NPSL S3
Rose Open S1
CSL 17: 2025 SUMMER
2025 GSL S2
BLAST.tv Austin Major 2025
ESL Impact League Season 7
IEM Dallas 2025
PGL Astana 2025
Asian Champions League '25
BLAST Rivals Spring 2025
MESA Nomadic Masters
CCT Season 2 Global Finals
IEM Melbourne 2025
YaLLa Compass Qatar 2025
PGL Bucharest 2025

Upcoming

Copa Latinoamericana 4
CSLPRO Last Chance 2025
CSLPRO Chat StarLAN 3
K-Championship
SEL Season 2 Championship
Esports World Cup 2025
HSC XXVII
Championship of Russia 2025
Murky Cup #2
Esports World Cup 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall Qual
IEM Cologne 2025
FISSURE Playground #1
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.