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Pick Your Power Insane! - Page 104

Forum Index > TL Mafia
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citi.zen
Profile Joined April 2009
2509 Posts
May 30 2011 01:18 GMT
#2061
On May 30 2011 09:32 deconduo wrote:
Lots of credit for the Police Radio invention, really well thought out.

Yes, that was a beautiful invention.
Aut viam inveniam, aut faciam.
Kavdragon
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States1251 Posts
May 30 2011 06:12 GMT
#2062
On May 29 2011 22:43 Ace wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 29 2011 22:37 bumatlarge wrote:
Agree with most of the stuff Ace, but Kav's thing was ridiculous. People called him out for being too pro-town. Nothing else. If you look back, everyone called him out for trying too hard, or some other shit. Again not Kav's fault, it was bad town's fault. I agree town was bad, we were doing awful first 2 days and won with power roles.


The chaoser, Barundar and KillerSOS wagons were all so damn ridiculous and they weren't even scum driven. I didn't even VOTE on the Kav wagon and it still happened to my amazement. But Kav made many mistakes. Somehow, some way even with the Kav/Barundar/Incog wagons going on no one sat down and looked back at how they were formed. The only person to bring it up later was Incognito iirc when he said I was pushing the wagon and then didn't even vote for Kav while also undermining him.

Of course it got ignored.


That was one of the things that I facepalmed about several times after I died, because I noticed it but didn't point it out. You called me scummy, you pushed me, and then when it came time to lynch, you didn't vote me, and you called people voting me scummy. I was going to point it out (actually typed it up) but for some reason it ended up not getting posted. I think IS pointed it out, but he too was ignored.
I'm currently on an indefinite hiatus from TL =(
Meapak_Ziphh
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
United States6785 Posts
May 30 2011 06:35 GMT
#2063
On May 25 2011 10:07 bumatlarge wrote:

Bum was having his usual identity crysis, which isn't a far cry from his call of duty for tonight. Rest assured, there was no halo above his head.


Are you an FPS player bum?
Forti et Fideli ~ TL Mafia Forum: Come play with us! ~ Go Samsung KHAN, Stork, JangBi , Shine, Grape, and TurN Fighting!~ wat
bumatlarge
Profile Blog Joined October 2007
United States4567 Posts
May 30 2011 12:19 GMT
#2064
Cha ching! Also, That's dedicated to Ver for his amazing Savior article.
Together but separate, like oatmeal
Kurumi
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Poland6130 Posts
May 30 2011 13:20 GMT
#2065
On May 30 2011 09:32 deconduo wrote:
Lots of credit for the Police Radio invention, really well thought out.

I actually loved it,sadly Parity Cop could check himseeeeeeeeeeeeeeelf
I work alone. // Visit TL Mafia subforum!
Scamp
Profile Joined October 2008
United States1086 Posts
May 30 2011 14:27 GMT
#2066
I personally would like to see Traitor and Village Idiot taken out, and all roles similar to that. I found it interesting that the game was balanced around the expectation of a traitor being taken, especially with moles active. If you took Traitor and you were a mole all along....well don't you feel silly?

I guess you at least show up as townie for role checks, but still...

But yeah, Villlage Idiot is just dumb. At least make it interesting in some way such as you need to predict when you'll die or some kind of restrictions of playstyle or whatever.

Maybe a mafia game where it turns out everyone on the mafia team is a mole.
Cheese is good for you!
Kurumi
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Poland6130 Posts
May 30 2011 15:09 GMT
#2067
On May 30 2011 23:27 Scamp wrote:
I personally would like to see Traitor and Village Idiot taken out, and all roles similar to that. I found it interesting that the game was balanced around the expectation of a traitor being taken, especially with moles active. If you took Traitor and you were a mole all along....well don't you feel silly?

I guess you at least show up as townie for role checks, but still...

But yeah, Villlage Idiot is just dumb. At least make it interesting in some way such as you need to predict when you'll die or some kind of restrictions of playstyle or whatever.

Maybe a mafia game where it turns out everyone on the mafia team is a mole.

Damn You Scamp,that was going to be my game after I get to co-host one.
I work alone. // Visit TL Mafia subforum!
Scamp
Profile Joined October 2008
United States1086 Posts
May 30 2011 17:45 GMT
#2068
Well fine then. One Godfather and the rest moles.
Cheese is good for you!
GMarshal
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
United States22154 Posts
May 30 2011 22:17 GMT
#2069
On May 30 2011 23:27 Scamp wrote:
I personally would like to see Traitor and Village Idiot taken out, and all roles similar to that. I found it interesting that the game was balanced around the expectation of a traitor being taken, especially with moles active. If you took Traitor and you were a mole all along....well don't you feel silly?

I guess you at least show up as townie for role checks, but still...

But yeah, Villlage Idiot is just dumb. At least make it interesting in some way such as you need to predict when you'll die or some kind of restrictions of playstyle or whatever.

Maybe a mafia game where it turns out everyone on the mafia team is a mole.


Village idiot should punish the faction responsible for his death somehow, or it should be a competition role, e.g. there are three VI and only the first one to be lynched wins. After this game I can say I'm not a huge fan of the mole, its pretty much the same beef I have against recruiting roles, it sucks to have been playing towards one win condition full steam only to have it changed on you suddenly/
Moderator
Radfield
Profile Joined September 2009
Canada2720 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-05-31 00:00:57
May 31 2011 00:00 GMT
#2070
Ver, were you planning on doing a little write-up on this game? I'm always interested in hearing what you have to say.

Also, fantastic job modding the game. It's always a pleasure having a great host.
Qatol
Profile Blog Joined November 2006
United States3165 Posts
May 31 2011 05:16 GMT
#2071
On May 25 2011 10:07 bumatlarge wrote:
Twas the night before Christmas, and I am the night.

[image loading]

Bum was having his usual identity crysis, which isn't a far cry from his call of duty for tonight. Rest assured, there was no halo above his head.

Bum had a list, which he checked frequently, not really to see who was naughty or not, but because he kept forgetting exactly who was on it. Incognito was a fine gentleman, but unfortunately the adjacent name, Ace, was not so well-behaved. It is obvious that Ace's misdemeanor triggered this quest. The three others on the list were oddly selected, almost random suspects to give bum options. Mr. Wiggles, Kurumi, Kitaman. It was a shame that Kuremo cut himself, and in doing so cut the blue wire in his wrist, killing two other townies. He would have been a nice person to kill. Bum thought very hard about his responsibility. Very hard, in fact, he still had not made a decision, til this very moment.

Bum waited until midnight for him to climb up a roof and knock over a few light infested gutters to reach a chimney. Being half starved, he hopped smoothly down the chimney, and using pure homeless powers, he glided safely, now hovering inches above the stone. Everyone knows bums can't walk on residential stonework. He stepped lightly onto the wood floor and walked up the stairs. On the wall was a picture of two-fAce, during a happier time. Bum continued his trek. The next picture had a picture of the Wiggler, in a nice green suit. What a funny guy. The last picture was of Katiman, bum's genderconfused callthing. Obviously the person living here knew them all. Bum's face grew heavy with each step, as he tossed this idea through his head like an unpinned grenade. At the door of the bedroom he pushed it open gently, and walked through. His movement's hinted at the task at hand, but his eyes betrayed his thoughts. Luckily it was too dark to see. He stood over the bed, pulled out an object of undetermined lethality, and pulled back the sheets.

So I was watching a classic work of cinematography tonight and it made me think of this. It is too appropriate not to be shared. Ace, it will totally make my day if you tell me this movie was the inspiration for that role.
[image loading]
Uff Da
Ver
Profile Joined October 2008
United States2186 Posts
May 31 2011 18:04 GMT
#2072
On May 31 2011 09:00 Radfield wrote:
Ver, were you planning on doing a little write-up on this game? I'm always interested in hearing what you have to say.

Also, fantastic job modding the game. It's always a pleasure having a great host.


Yes sometime today or tomorrow to some degree or another. Been exceptionally busy and ill over the weekend. Thanks FW and Qatol for their help in covering for me.
Liquipedia
Ace
Profile Blog Joined October 2002
United States16096 Posts
May 31 2011 22:14 GMT
#2073
Actually no, never saw that movie before.
Math me up, scumboi. - Acrofales
Qatol
Profile Blog Joined November 2006
United States3165 Posts
May 31 2011 22:45 GMT
#2074
On June 01 2011 07:14 Ace wrote:
Actually no, never saw that movie before.

Unfortunate. It seemed so perfect for the role. "He's making a list... Pray you're not on it."??!!
Uff Da
flamewheel
Profile Blog Joined December 2009
FREEAGLELAND26781 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-06-02 15:18:44
June 02 2011 15:17 GMT
#2075
Holy snaps Qatol, like last week I was trying to find that movie and couldn't remember the bloody name. Time to go look for it online.
Writerdamn, i was two days from retirement
Radfield
Profile Joined September 2009
Canada2720 Posts
June 11 2011 11:18 GMT
#2076
A recap of the discussion in Miscellaneous/Multi-Purpose Mafia thread:

On June 11 2011 09:32 Radfield wrote:
Show nested quote +
Incog wrote: It always seems to me that at the endgame people focus too much on praising/trash talking other players and don't actually take the time to learn from what went on in the game.


I think it's hard when you're actually playing in a game to be able to look back and find the learning points. Each player is naturally biased to his own perception of how things went down, and it really takes an outsider (or a very experienced player) to actually break down what went on in the game, and where the improvement can take place. In PYPI I can see how the game played out, and see some of the mistakes(or good plays) that I and other players made, but I think it's hard to really take concrete lessons away from a game without talking it out with someone.

Show nested quote +
Incog wrote: Somehow we need to foster more discussion about guides/analyses/playing as town instead of thinking that these pieces are self-explanatory. In other words, I think people would learn better if there was more feedback in the process. Right now the guides are just paragraphs that people treat as some sort of museum piece instead of an improvement tool.


This is absolutely what we need. Perhaps a dedicated thread after each game breaking down the townie play(since this is what we need to improve). Mind you, this is a boatload of work, and would really take someone following the game and willing to make contributions. In PYPI I think town had some real strong points. There was little spam, plenty of townies were contributing their thoughts/ideas that it made it easy to find fairly solid townies, town stayed fairly focused and on task, and didn't get sidetracked. That being said, the sheer volume of list-checks and dt checks meant that very little meaningful scum hunting had to be done. A godfather role or a framing role would have likely had us floundering, instead of cruising to a relatively easy win.

To be clear, I completely agree that more discussion is needed at the end of the game to bring out certain talking points, hopefully with constructive criticism for specific players within the game. I enjoy constructive criticism and think it's extremely beneficial. Some of the mistakes I made during this game:

* The push for Barundar: I honestly thought this was a good Day 1 lynch, as he fit pretty much all the criteria I was looking for. Where did I go wrong? Obviously after the lynch results came in I quickly deduced that Barundar had to be town, but he easily could have been lynched due to my faulty accusation.

* Not backing Incog more: this was just silliness. I had a strong pro-town read, but had too much respect for Incogs play to be able to fully back him. Ace had successfully turned the thread, and I didn't think I could un-turn it. No need for advice here, I know where I failed and how to remedy it.

* Failing at convincing the other players GM was the mole. Yes GM was lynched, but I was as sure as I ever get that GM was the mole, yet barely got him lynched. Where did I go wrong in building my case against him? As far as I could tell it was a slam dunk, but none of the other players seemed to be swayed(other than kita, who was swayed possibly for other reasons). I did miss the Chaoser flip-flop(which was key) but the rest of my case was strong in my eyes. Did I argue too much with him, thus burying the key evidence? Did I not defend myself well enough against GM's counter attacks? Why were the other players unconvinced?

Anyways, these are the things I think about at the end of games, and think we as a group should be talking about. I'm sure we can all see where we went wrong, but not necessarily how to fix them.




On June 11 2011 17:57 Barundar wrote:
Really liking the write up Radfield, and I wish we could have more discussion about that game.
Show nested quote +
The push for Barundar: I honestly thought this was a good Day 1 lynch, as he fit pretty much all the criteria I was looking for. Where did I go wrong? Obviously after the lynch results came in I quickly deduced that Barundar had to be town, but he easily could have been lynched due to my faulty accusation.

I think you picked up on my flawed goals. On the one hand I planned on getting killed ASAP to remove my role from the game, and on the other hand I was afraid of a scum copy cat picking up my role if I died early. Because of this my play was a little too general and wishy washy, which should get called out.

I still think I did pro town stuff (limit suspect list, call out Caller), but I don't think you where all wrong.


I think my problem mainly stemmed from trying too hard for a Day 1 mafia lynch. There is very little separating mafia from town on day 1, as there is very little to contribute. Of course your play was general and your attacks weren't concrete, as there is very little solid evidence to be basing anything on. Anyways, I'm going to keep trying for Day 1 lynches, but I do realize that's not necessarily where my strength lies.

Barundar I think your play was strong from Day 2 onward. You were clear on your thoughts and motivations in the thread, and unafraid to post them. It made you very green which is an excellent trait as a townie and eventually drew a hit from the mafia.

If I could suggest an improvement it would be about your scum-team lists(of which you made a couple). These generally are not an effective tool in my eyes, because they don't really mean much. In my eyes it's much better to keep your lists of potential suspects to yourself and focus on whichever player or players are most scummy. First because your list will(or should) constantly be changing as the game progresses(I find for myself that when I don't write my suspicions down in thread, I can generally keep a more open mind about a player) and second because posting a big list of suspects allows the mafia to cherry pick from your list.

One other piece of constructive criticism that I could offer about your play is to focus less on inactive/lurking players. Many of your suspicions of players in PYPI were based on inactivity in it's various forms, while mafia rarely skirt that inactivity line and instead are around the mid-range activity level. It's fine to put some attention and pressure on inactive players, but in my mind it's more effective to focus your attention/time on the players actually posting.
Ace
Profile Blog Joined October 2002
United States16096 Posts
June 11 2011 13:55 GMT
#2077
I dont know who started it but when people do these massive "this is my list of pro town reads" and "this is my list of scum suspects" it leads to lots and lots of bad wagons and side tracking. Also easier for Scum to manipulate the town. Much simpler if the town just discusses a few suspects and moves on, while not giving up too much info on who is "pro-town" since that word is being thrown around so carelessly.
Math me up, scumboi. - Acrofales
Ver
Profile Joined October 2008
United States2186 Posts
June 13 2011 02:27 GMT
#2078
ok fine ill finish this in a jiffy.

dunno if I should post the ratings though lol.
Liquipedia
Meapak_Ziphh
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
United States6785 Posts
June 13 2011 05:15 GMT
#2079
On June 13 2011 11:27 Ver wrote:
ok fine ill finish this in a jiffy.

dunno if I should post the ratings though lol.

yes yes ratings plz!!!
Forti et Fideli ~ TL Mafia Forum: Come play with us! ~ Go Samsung KHAN, Stork, JangBi , Shine, Grape, and TurN Fighting!~ wat
Barundar
Profile Joined May 2010
Denmark1582 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-06-13 11:50:47
June 13 2011 11:43 GMT
#2080
Haha I wrote an answer to Radfield, but with Ver's comments coming up I'm afraid to embarrass myself xD. For now I just want to say thanks a lot for giving direct feedback, will work on those points.

E: And please give ratings, one can only learn from one's mistakes.
Bartundar
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