EPTThe PUA community - Page 10
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Elegance
Canada917 Posts
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Elegance
Canada917 Posts
On June 03 2011 22:19 crabz wrote: how is it an hard for a handome guy to pickup a girl ? (no homo but check his other pictures hes definately tall and good looking that makes the task alot easier) Looks has no place in PUA community | ||
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BrTarolg
United Kingdom3574 Posts
Its not different from how some people seem naturally popular in a group of friends. Its because they are witty, funny, outgoing, arrogant, dickheads  But you should at least give yourself a fighting chance | ||
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Oxygen
Canada3581 Posts
On June 03 2011 00:11 TheDougler wrote: [...] Take this for example: http://kingpinlifestyle.com/ What do you see there? Articles on getting over laziness, being a man of action, and how to quit video games if one wants to. [...] The thing is that the community is all about bettering oneself. What is wrong with that? The problem is not with bettering yourself. It is that one of the inherent motivators you are using is how "good" you are with women. This can promote good health, initiative, and give you the courage to conquer your fears, but every time you meet a woman you see the chance to score first and the human being second. | ||
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Chainfire99
Canada474 Posts
This is a great video on body language and determining quickly and easily which girls are friendly and open to meeting someone new or if they aren't. Solid stuff on conversational improvement as well near the end. | ||
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shinosai
United States1577 Posts
On June 03 2011 13:19 tomatriedes wrote: Haha pretty funny. Can't deny the guy has some skills. I think the reality is though that some of us will never be able to be that smooth no matter how much 'training' we do, despite what the experts say. I think PUA skills can unlock potential in some people but for many that kind of ability just will never manifest. Plus if you're really, really funny looking certain girls are always going to be out of your league. They might give you their number out of sympathy but there's unlikely to be much follow-up. The thing that video doesn't show is the failures, though. Anyways, I think the real lesson you get from that video is simply that you can say almost anything to females and get a good reaction (out of some of them) if you deliver it from the right frame of mind. | ||
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King.Crimson
Romania478 Posts
I'd like to offer my insight on this matter. First, one of your quotes (actually David D's one): MISTAKE #7: Thinking That It Takes Money And Looks There's a lot of controversy on this issue, and i'd like to explain my perspective on it. I feel that it's some what true that you DON'T need these 2 things, but both of them help you gain a lot of confidence and as a result make you appear and feel much more attractive. We men usually get our confidence from achievements or tangible things, like experiencing success in a certain area. If a guy is poor and ugly, that must mean he is hasn't really had success professionally, since he didn't make money from it.. and he derives from a bad gene pool, also considered a negative trademark. Thus, this poor schlob has few reasons to consider himself equal or even someone worthy of a Turbo 10's attention, when he's missing 2 of the key features that are so highly praised in today's modern society and media. In my own personal experience, the most successful guys i've seen have at least one of these two things going for them, but i'm sure there are exceptions. I can already imagine a 5 foot elephant man-dwarf beasting the nightclubs, pulling hot babes left and right with his amazing core confidence. I've known and been a part of this community for a long time, maybe 2005, and for the most part, it brought me only positive things. I came into it a shy, odd, frustrated nerdy teenager. But along the way, it helped me shape my personality to be much more open, pro active, take what you want out of life and make no excuses about it type of guy. However, it was a very bumpy ride. In an effort to constantly change and better myself, i would constantly fall back into old behaviours (my mind resisting change, telling me to stay in my comfort zone) and thus appear very incongruent and volatile. I still remember my first couple of cold approaches back in the day. One happened in the subway station, i saw this cute girl sitting alone on the bench, and i must have hovered around her for a good 3-4 minutes before finally mustering up the courage to go sit down next to her. Then it took me 2 more minutes (thus falling way off the 3 second rule) before i would initiate conversation with her. I must have said something really stupid or offensive, i don't remember because my anxiety was blocking my train of thought and speech pattern, because she got up and left right away. And no, the subway hadn't arrived haha. Another one was outside during the daytime, also a girl sitting on a bench, texting she was i think. I went up to her (after nervously walking around for 5 minutes to work up the courage obviously), sat down, and gave her an opinion opener that i read from the Mystery Method. I remember i was so nervous while spouting my lines that my hands and knees were literally shaking. But she must have found my anxiety and lack of malice cute i guess, because she gave me her number. I have come a long way since then though, now i can probably get numbers off 90% of the girls i talk to, but it's just so time and energy consuming to set up day 2's and whatnot, that i generally don't bother with it, and go straight for the kill. It's an interesting cycle, trying to achieve success in seduction. Guru's divided it into 4 stages. Unconsciously bad, where you suck at getting women but you don't even know it, probably because your ego lies to you that you could get them if you Really wanted to. Then there's consciously bad, where you admit that you suck with women but you try and make an effort to change this. I struggled with this for a bit, even thought i had the looks, years and years of gaming and being out of touch with the world turning me into a recluse (basically my highschool experience) didn't really help my personality. Then there's consciously good, where all the effort you put in started to yield results, and you can consistently get laid. The final step is unconsciously good, basically you're a master, and your every word or gesture makes a girl hot & bothered. This is what most of us want to become, being able to just flow, be the party, attract everyone around you seamlessly, without having to micromanage your actions. I think i had some nights where i've experienced the final step, but i'm not consistent enough to claim that i'm there yet. Here is an example: About an year ago, me and a couple of my buds headed for this awesome nightclub rightfully called "Player" in Bucharest. We booked a table beforehand, and were expecting around fifteen'ish girls - all solid 8's and 9's - to grace us with their presence. Unfortunately... only 10 girls came. So i became sad. And i didn't talk to any of them for the first hour or so. I just minded my own damn business, downing 8 cans of redbull (no vodka since i was driving - funny how i had some of the best times while sober - i usually love drinking) and dancing around (i'm a decent dancer). Nothing special was really happening, everybody was chill, at the table vis-a-vis to ours, it was Sausage Heaven. 8 good looking and well dressed dudes - one of them whom i would find out later was driving a BMW 6 series, 100k$ car- and ZERO girls at their table. The athmosphere was nice, but as i said, nothing special, i was starting to feel kinda like MEH.. Then...it happens.. SUDDENLY, 2 girls from my table, out of nowhere, start playing with a few cubicles of ice. Putting them in their mouths, and exchanging the cubes and fluids inbetween. I became curious. A fuzzy feeling inside me swept me, my eyes open eyed, i was leering like a dirty drooling perv at our 2 girls, wanting a piece of that action. So i went to them, and said something along the lines "sharing is caring". Not more than a minute after, i was having a full hardcore 3 way make-out with them. It didn't take long for things to degenerate a LOT, one of the gay dudes from the other table actually came to high five me and ask if he can join the party. For some reason i said yes, but with the condition that he gets to kiss only the girls, not me. He reluctantly agreed, although i could see the tint of dissapointment in his soul, since i am quite the catch for the bicurious male, with my effeminate DiCaprio looks and all. The ice cubicle fiesta continued, me and the girls continuously finding new and creative ways to melt them. I watched as one of the chicks literally fingered the other through the panties in full view, only for me to be next in line. I'd wish i was making all this up. My buddy, the one who i came with, was starting to curse his decision to bring his current girlfriend with him (even though all our girlfriends are on open relationship basis, hooking up with another chick in front of your GF is still a no-no), because we had 2 wild bitches waiting to get pounded at our table. The night progressed with me eventually settling for one of them, ensuing in hardcore make-out sessions with her, my buddy managed to get rid of his GF, sending her home packing; and so we went for the extraction. Absolutely no resistance, 2 of them, plus another girl who was their friend, agreed to go back to my crib. We stopped for a bite to eat at the local McDrive, as i recall, then took them to the Palace DeLarge (name still in progress). Here is where i messed up. On the way home, my friend, who is a pretty awesome natural playa, started building up the tension with the 3rd girl, to get her in the same state as the others. And he did it. She was hot and bothered and ready to go. When we finally arrive, everybody is horny and up for some monkey sex. And im the one who is suppose to coordonate and make this happen. But i make the wrong decision. In retrospect, the wisest decision i think was to let all 3 girls go at it lesbo-style in my huge royal bed, while we casually wait it out in the living room a few minutes, before joining the soon to be orgy. But what my dumb ass does, is i pull only one of them in my bedroom, leaving my friend to talk with the other 2 in the living room. Long story short, i do manage to fuck BOTH girls i made out with, but in different days, using the momentum from this night and a shitload of messenger BS. No sex happened that night, because of the poor logistics i created in my apartment. So, i'm not sure if i wrote this thing to brag about it or for it to be a story to learn from (what went right and how i could have made it better). However, in my experience, the best and wildest nights i had, were those where i went out with almost zero expectations, just being myself, carefree, having lots of fun. That's it Alex | ||
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craz3d
Bulgaria856 Posts
On June 03 2011 01:07 scorch- wrote: I've not been involved in the "community" other than being linked videos and checking out websites. Just looks to me like another way for "experts" to make money off of vulnerable people. I didn't say it was a "waste of time" or "filled with delinquents." There are plenty of good people who are insecure when it comes to their sexuality and social prowess. Convincing them that they can and should be good at meeting women on the street by learning their principles or methods makes these people a lot of money in book sales and seminars. If it's had a truly positive impact on your life, then great for you. I'm just stating that the community system is setup to generate income for the people writing books and running seminars. Almost all PUA in the business have the same story... "Look, I used to be a loser who played Magic: The Gathering or did X (interesting but socially unacceptable hobby) and now I hook up with hot/successful women!" It's like a less obvious infomercial for p90x with before/after pictures. So, when I say these things, it's not because I think the PUA community can't have a positive impact on people, but because that's not the purpose. The purpose is to convince people to pay them money. The article written by a "former gamer" is indicative of that... he's convinced that he's bettered himself by switching addictions. I've also noticed this. It's a very clever marketing ploy for making a shit ton of cash. I hope the customers are getting something out of it, because the people putting on these seminars certainly are. | ||
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Colbert
Canada148 Posts
Cam here from http://kingpinlifestyle.com My brother Xzilend sent me the link here. Cool to see the debate going on about the community and my article on quitting video games. One thing I want to make clear is that obviously the article I wrote is for people interested in quitting. If they didn't want to quit they wouldn't be reading the article (other than for general curiosity sake). Do most of the people on this forum want to quit video games? I would highly doubt it. Maybe a few but if you are posting on teamliquid you are probably serious enough about gaming that it's a conscious decision to play. Of course the majority of people who play video games aren't hardcore teamliquiders, and I would say there is a ridiculous amount of people out there that do try and stop playing, but fail time after time.... which is where the article came in. The reason they fail (as the article points out) is because the advice they are using to quit is advice that won't work for the REAL problem. Even if you aren't looking to stop playing video games, I think the 4 areas I talk about in the article are things to be aware of. Now let me clear up a few other things before I dive into the thick of this: I think "pick-up" is stupid, and identifying as a "PUA" is in that boat too. My philosophy is this: If you are a cool attractive guy, all you have to do is approach (AKA be assertive) and you will have a decent chance of success. So you are a cool attractive guy, and you approach. Now what? Well, attraction will either be there or it won't. This is natural chemistry at play. If there is a mutual attraction, things will progress naturally, in a normal fashion, and the relationship will go wherever the two people want it to go. I think too many people miss out on the natural compatibility aspect of two people. Obviously that is a very short form version of the whole philosophy, but hopefully it gives you a bit of an idea. So what makes a cool attractive guy? In my opinion, it's close to these 5 pillars: 1. Your Relationships with the opposite sex (aka your game/intimacy). 2. Networking: you have the ability to create options in your life, personal or business. 3. Social Life: You have a strong and healthy social circle of friends, and you actually do shit. Example: if you like art, you go to art shows. If you like electronic music, you go to DJ shows. That kind of thing. 4. Purpose & Passion: You are working towards (or on) your purpose in life, AND YOU ALSO HAVE a passion project on the side. Both are equally important. 5. Internal Mindsets: your ability to create positivity in yourself and those around you. your views on yourself and the world. you have an opinion on life. Now again, this is a short version just to give you an idea. Now what about pick-up? Ultimately, pick-up is just a platform to learn. One of the best posts I saw in this thread was when a guy just straight up said "you are taking this way too seriously", and I couldn't agree more. So one day you have the thought "damn, I really don't have as much confidence as I wish I did." How do you fix it? It's not like you can just go to college and take a class. Your mom would probably tell you to go hang out with friends, be more social and to work out. At least my mom would. Pick-up is just a platform you can use to learn the traits that make you an attractive cool guy who lives the life he wants to. Going out night after night approaching hundreds (if not thousands) of random strangers is a very good way to learn about yourself. By consistently pushing your comfort zone, you begin to realize that you really don't need to take things so seriously. That girl you find attractive isn't going to kill you. The world isn't all that dangerous. After time you now KNOW YOURSELF, and that's when you can actually "be yourself", which is what will make you attractive to the girl you would marry in the first place. Of course I advocate that you "be yourself" throughout the process using natural methods, and not lines, gimmicks and routines. I think the coolest thing about learning "pick-up" is that you begin to view every situation differently. You look at the world in a different light. The "pua" is the exception to the rule. Don't approach from behind on the dance floor? Fuck that, I'll do it, and it'll work. ANd if it doesn't work, who gives a fuck, because I don't take life that seriously. BUT I believe you should always be leaving people better off than you left them. You should always bring value. So just keep that in mind. Pick-up has allowed me to cultivate the mindset that everything is an opportunity to learn. Think about it like this: I grew up Roman Catholic. I never even considered looking into other religions until I got into the community, and developed the mindset that "everything is an opportunity to learn." So one day I picked up a book on Buddhism and read it. Did it totally change my beliefs? No, but I did learn a few lessons in the book that changed my life. Most importantly though, at the end of the day, even if I didn't learn anything in the book that made me change my beliefs, what I probably DID learn is more about my own beliefs. I became stronger in them. This happens because I'm comparing my beliefs against others, and through debate mine either evolve or become stronger. Nothing but good can come from that. Everything is an opportunity to learn. That's why I think people who write off the community are fucking fools. Don't agree with going out and approaching night after night? Ok that's cool. I can understand where you are coming from. But there is a lot more you can learn than just that. Maybe it even just inspires you to look at natural characteristics of a badass dude. Or maybe it just plants a seed in your mind that the next time you see a girl you'e attracted to, YOU CAN APPROACH HER. You aren't the cards you were dealt. You can change your life if you so choose. If you didn't grow up with parents who encouraged you to develop your social skills, you can learn them. If you didn't grow up with a high self esteem, you can develop it. This is the reason "The Game" is a great book. Are the tactics and techniques in the book all that great? Not really. They are old and outdated. They are built for one type of person. There are 4 different types of people who read the game. Group A - Naturals These are guys that have had some success growing up. They've had a few girlfriends and whatnot. When they read the game they don't get any "tactics" out of it, but what they come out of it understanding is that if they are assertive, they can make a difference in their dating lives. They aren't the cards they were dealt. Group B - Nerds These are guys who have had pretty much no success growing up. They read the game and see that there is a method to it. This inspires them because they are good within systems, and a system for dating is exactly what they need. Group C - Optimists These are people who read the book and can see the good in it. They may not get into the community but they leave with some type of value, even if that is the mere fact that they read a cool book. Group D - Pessimists These are people that read the book and think it's all fucking stupid. They are too negative to see that EVERYTHING has potential to give you value, if you have the right perspective and attitude to find it. These people leave thinking the book and the whole community is stupid. They gain nothing from reading the book, not even the pure joy of reading a well written story. Hopefully people who read the article that were looking to get out and start living a different life were inspired to do so and now have the knowledge to make it happen. For those that aren't interested in that, no judgement. From being as hardcore as the next guy for many years, I can understand why you do what you do, and I don't even think it's all that bad, as long as you have a healthy life outside of it. This wasn't the case for me, so I got out. For the guy that said I just picked my poison. Ya for sure. I went from hardcore gaming to going out to night clubs 7 nights a week for 2 years straight, focusing all of my attention on it. It took me 2 and a half years to finally realize what balance looks like and how to live a healthy life. Hardcore gaming is no different then hardcore pickup, just like neither of those are different then working 80 hours a week killing yourself in a job, or taking too many classes and killing yourself there. Life is about balance, and doing the things you enjoy. It's about having a purpose, but also having a passion too. There are only so many hours in the day, so spend them on the things you fucking love. If anybody wants to discuss things further or has specific questions, PM me and I'll give you my e-mail/facebook/whatever. I don't come on teamliquid much anymore, other than to check the awesome "movies you've seen recently" thread. I'll be more than happy to help anybody out anytime. | ||
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tjosan
Sweden120 Posts
![[image loading]](http://noelbellblog.files.wordpress.com/2011/04/cbt_diag1.jpg) The basic idea is that you can change perceptions and automated responses through exercises of concious action while being aware of -and overcoming- feelings associated with old behavioural patterns, and reinforcing the new responses through experiencing the results of the new actions. I feel that if you remove commercial interests from the industry and measure success in other metrics than "f-closes" it's a pretty awesome way to practice internet based group therapy. Many who live their lives online probably suffer varying degrees of social phobia. My two cents as an aspiring psychiatrist. | ||
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WinterNightz
United States111 Posts
But now that I'm a bit older and a bit less quick to judge, I feel like I might end up looking around for this book to read. Not because I'm desperate for sex or to start dating again, but because I feel like this philosophy is just like any other information/power. It all depends on whether you use this for good or evil. You can be one of those dudes who puts all of their effort into getting a bunch of phone numbers or one-night-stands, or you can use it to help you start/maintain a loving relationship. That said, is The Game really the only book on this subject, or has there been more examinations done in a more scientific/psychological manner? (or really: are there any other alternatives to read?) sorry if this has already been asked, I'm only up to page 3 atm. | ||
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Chainfire99
Canada474 Posts
RSD is a well known and highly regarded dating advice company and The Social Man seems like a solid company as well. | ||
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LoneWolf.Alpha
United States115 Posts
On June 03 2011 01:46 PJA wrote: Sounds like a bunch of PUA garbage to me. You don't need to be an "alpha male" or be a "nice guy but in the right way." Just act like a decent human being, be successful at something, be kind, and don't be a whiny, mopey bitch. Maybe I'm misinterpreting what PUAs mean by "nice guy," but as far as I can tell, being a nice guy is the nuts. Obviously you can't just go around being friendly and a doormat all the time, but that's common sense. But seriously, women love being treated well and respected. I don't understand why not being a "nice guy" would help you get any women who don't have self-esteem issues. this whole thread reminds me of a bunch of bronze leagers saying what a pro gamer did right or did wrong, or that boxer's training team is actually a bunch of noobs. yes, a lot of us are good with women. we have some girlfriends and whatever. But that doesn't mean that we really know what we are talking about when we talk about women, for the same reason a diamond SC2 player is good, but not GOOD. a lot of the PUA trainers do dating coaching as their CAREER. That means, if he's one of those 100% PUA types like Mystery, he's good enough to go out every night, without having natural good looks, but be able to pull women to his pad pretty much every night without thinking about it. On the other hand, if he is one of those self improvement types like David Deangelo, he's the guy who's making $500 an hour giving professional advice and business coaching to top company executives and so happens he also takes what he knows from that field to give advice to normal diamond league shmucks. Anyways, in almost every sport I've ever played, one of the key things that I notice about the noobs, is that they are cocky as fuck. That is a big reason why they think they are good, because they've never seen good, and are too dumb to know if even when they do. "i have a girlfriend, haha, all these PUA coaches are losers". | ||
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ShcShc
Canada912 Posts
This is 2011, not 2003. | ||
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Chainfire99
Canada474 Posts
On June 06 2011 05:36 ShcShc wrote: On a random note, Mystery is considered a joke within the PUA community and David D somewhat outdated because of his heavy reliance on negs (or what he calls as C&F). This is 2011, not 2003. Yep, Mystery's peacocking is/was ridiculous and too over the top and I think the Mystery Method has fallen out of favor. Pick up shouldn't be THAT complex. It's all about natural game it seems these days. I haven't kept up with the community for over a year but I think Gambler, Adamn Lyons, Nick Sparks, and maybe Tyler Durden are the studs of the community. | ||
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Satire
Canada295 Posts
Group D - Pessimists These are people that read the book and think it's all fucking stupid. They are too negative to see that EVERYTHING has potential to give you value, if you have the right perspective and attitude to find it. These people leave thinking the book and the whole community is stupid. They gain nothing from reading the book, not even the pure joy of reading a well written story. Here is my story: So, I read the book "The Game" about 2 years ago as my roommate thought it might help with my situation. At the time I was new to the city I am living in, and hadn't had a girlfriend for about a year. Previous to that, I dated the same girl off and on for almost 8 years. As you can imagine this loss in combination with not having many friends in my new city, really lowered my self-esteem. Aside from that, I always considered myself to really fail with women. I had no confidence in that area, so I figured, "Why not?" Anyways, I read the book and thought it was absolutely retarded. Fast forward to recently. I have had more success with women, dating both girls that I really liked this year, and being asked out by about 3 more; but I was still making mistakes along the way and not figuring out why. After my last ladyfriend broke up with me, and didn't provide me with a reason, I did a search on "How to get your ex back". You laugh - but look inside, and I'm sure you've felt the same way at some point. Such a terrible feeling when the person you love suddenly is gone and there is a big void in your heart. Eventually, I was linked to a thread from one of the PUA Communities - LoveSystems (Mystery's former website, if I'm not mistaken). The thread in there went over various ways to do it, and the debate was actually pretty mind boggling. People were asking questions in that thread about how to do it in their situation, some guys were giving the "Oneitis" speech and it was so an interesting mix of view points. From there I started reading threads from people who had similar experiences to me, and seeing the advice given. Interesting stuff. From there, I read linked threads on confidence, attraction, being alpha, and all that jazz. This stuff was so much more than the cheesy gimmicks that are displayed - it's a whole way of thinking and looking at yourself. While I don't agree with all of it, it's interesting. I think what really sold it for me though, was a thread I read called, "Just cried in front of my GF - is this bad?". The fellow in the thread was really worried that he had somehow lowered his value to his girlfriend of 8 months by letting her see him cry. I opened the thread, expecting to see the responses, "Dude - you need to remain Alpha" or "You demonstrated lower value by doing that - you're an idiot." I was floored by what was in that thread though: Every post in that thread was supportive. Every last one of them told him he didn't make a mistake, and he needs to be more confident that it's okay sometimes to cry in appropriate situations. Finally, everyone told him it's okay to be emotional in front of someone where appropriate. More than 30 replies in that thread - every last one of them supportive. A few of them from instructors even. This is the kind of advice and support that a normal human being needs from his friends when he's in a rough spot. I was absolutely shocked. That's when I realized that I was wrong about these communities. It's not just about helping men pick up women. That's just a fraction of it. It's about helping people realize their mistakes, and ultimately helping them to be more confident about themselves in their own skin. Since then, I've reevaluated my own principles on relationships. I realized that I was closed minded. I had it in my head that I was going to meet this amazing girl, we're going to fall in love, she's going to appreciate the fact that I'm not a slut with women and treat them like goddesses. Make no mistake, I still believe that is going to happen one day, and I even strive for it. I just realized that is no reason to judge other people from living their life in a different way. Beyond that, I should start having the fun in relationships that I have with the rest of my life. I'm not a serious person, I love to have fun. I needed to learn to be more open minded. Since then, I've turned into this: Group A - Naturals These are guys that have had some success growing up. They've had a few girlfriends and whatnot. When they read the game they don't get any "tactics" out of it, but what they come out of it understanding is that if they are assertive, they can make a difference in their dating lives. They aren't the cards they were dealt. I make lots of friends that are girls. I am much more comfortable with who I am now in a relationship, and realize that I never had trouble attracting girls, my problem was always my view of myself. I didn't believe I was good enough for so many of the girls I liked, so I never crossed that threshold or didn't present myself in the right way. When I found someone, I tried so hard to show her how great she was, and as I result I forgot how great I was. I don't go around picking-up girls because that's not my thing, but I've realized that I can share my personality and my sense of humour with the world and let other people have fun just by being around me. I go out and make friends with lots of random people, even if's just for the night. I have a great time with the friends I have too, and that next girl that I want to be with, maybe I can show her the best side of myself too. The community is what you get out of it. Do people make money off it? Absolutely. There are some bad apples in it too that leave people in worse shape then they found them too. I think ultimately though, at the heart of it all, it's just a bunch of guys who are trying to help each other become a better version of themselves - ultimately through trial and error, but at the core, through a whole community full of support. | ||
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Diks
Belgium1880 Posts
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Chainfire99
Canada474 Posts
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Pyrrhuloxia
United States6700 Posts
Nah I meant... eroticism? Hard to explain. | ||
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Colbert
Canada148 Posts
On June 03 2011 23:05 Oxygen wrote: The problem is not with bettering yourself. It is that one of the inherent motivators you are using is how "good" you are with women. This can promote good health, initiative, and give you the courage to conquer your fears, but every time you meet a woman you see the chance to score first and the human being second. Ya that CAN be the case, but one of the major BASIC principles you learn early on is not to be outcome oriented (outcome dependant). Of course this is hard but it's one of the first sticking points to get over. When I see a girl now I don't see an opportunity to score. I see an opportunity to get to know someone, who might be really cool and a good addition to my network. | ||
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