EPT[Stream] PlayhemTV - Page 31
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Eee
Sweden2712 Posts
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Kevin_Sorbo
Canada3217 Posts
On February 29 2012 02:01 Eee wrote: Well you dont really see casters saying stuff like this is about players like TT1 and DIMAGA, Dragons case is almost as irrelevant today as their is (the main diffrence being that their case was in BW and Dragons case was in sc2 beta). Extremely unprofessional, I dont think Katu's reputation will ever recover from this. And it should not. Wanna drag people's name into the mud? Loose your job. Even if all the streamcheating stuff was true, who are you to call people out like that? you Judge Dredd? oh no youre just Katu. Now be judged. lol | ||
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JSC1214
4 Posts
On February 28 2012 21:44 RyanDeSanto wrote: So there's no confusion, my comment about retribution was not meant to indicate favor in either direction. It was more a theoretical proposition that probably did not belong in my post to begin with. That said, its probably best not to leave this open ended. I can assure everyone that Katu will no longer be a representative of Playhem, and seemingly shouldn't have been for some time. Good to see that you have taken this event so seriously. Thank you for Playhem, thank you for supporting E-Sports, and thank you for agreeing that it need remain professional. | ||
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Vragak
United States6 Posts
I am very happy to see Playhem's response in offering to sponsor Dragon for IPL4, and Playhem as a company is attempting to make things right. I think what Playhem is doing is good and hope they continue with their tournaments and grow bigger and better. Thouhg I hope in the future they put more emphasis on watching their casters cast, and ensure they are acting professionally. I will keep the actions of Katu and Playhem as separate and distinct. I will continue to support Playhem. Until I see what I feel to be a sincere apology on Katu's part I will no longer watch his casting. | ||
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steisjo
Sweden81 Posts
On February 29 2012 02:33 Vragak wrote: Thouhg I hope in the future they put more emphasis on watching their casters cast, and ensure they are acting professionally. i can asure you of that its always atleast 1 admin listening/watching the stream | ||
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The Shiva
United States8 Posts
On February 28 2012 21:06 MrCash wrote: Wait wait wait. Are you telling me if you go to a store and an employee swears at you, you would rather have that employee fired instead of receiving $1000? Theoretical example of course, but don't you think you are taking this a bit too personally? An employee made a mistake and the company is owing up to it BIG time. Considering this level of response they will without a doubt have an internal discussion about this and I highly doubt anything of this nature will occur again or it will have serious repercussions. A start-up business can't afford either bad PR or to be throwing money out the window every time someone screws up. I would say its more like if an employee accused you of shop lifting in front of the rest of the poeple in the store. I would take the 1000 and in most cases they would get fired seeing as in most places its against policy to stop someone and accuse them of shoplifting. | ||
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shell
Portugal2722 Posts
On February 29 2012 02:42 The Shiva wrote: I would say its more like if an employee accused you of shop lifting in front of the rest of the poeple in the store. I would take the 1000 and in most cases they would get fired seeing as in most places its against policy to stop someone and accuse them of shoplifting. No it isn't, if you work in a store and accuse someone they can: A)show they don't have nothing or B)wait for police to be checked by them IMO Dragon has a bad reputation that almost no one knew and Katu is a nice guy that does alot more for us then dragon imo, Rather have 1 katu then 20 more dragons so i won't kill him yet.. He was wrong but just let it be.. i think he understood and won't do it again! | ||
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TheTreeKing
United States26 Posts
If the player being directly BM-ed doesn't care, how can you guys? Especially now that a dedicated caster is out of his gig. It would be like if a SC player got kicked out of a tournament for suspicious activity. Something considered taboo to the community happened, and the person was ostracized because of it. But, from accounts of Ryan the stream chat was being extremely inflammatory, and this should at least be considered. Yes, Dragon has a sketchy past. Any cursory glance at his liquipedia shows that stream cheating was the issue. I knew this before I really started watching Dragon's stream. TL;DR: Dragon is over, you should get over it. Ironic Dragon's fans don't seem to realize the parallels which should chill them out. Dragon's past is pretty easy to figure out, don't be mad we love him anyway. Lets move on. EDIT:+ Show Spoiler + Wasn't it in the NASL where Gretorp make some side comment about Dragon? I could swear this happened, but I'm not 100% sure, so if anyone could back me up that'd be cool. If not, I guess not. If he did: Where was the outrage? EDIT2: Edit 1 wasn't really relevant, it was nowhere as BM as Katu was. | ||
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Tuplag
7 Posts
It's only a minority now that don't know of Dragon's past, it's been posted/dicussed/referred to countless times. Don't say "us" when your unable to refer to everyone. I bet a lot of people didn't know who Katu was till this recent drama. You could say Dragon does more for us than Katu, which would be streaming 8+ hours a day giving us entertainment. But then that's like comparing apples to oranges. | ||
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shell
Portugal2722 Posts
Whatever lets ban a caster for calling cheater to a allready proven cheater, even if he doesn't do it anymore. Hey let's ban idra and incontrol for saying TT1 was a cheater also, lets ban destiny for saying deezer stream cheats then.. yeah sure  He didn't perform to his standarts and surely shouldn't have done it but save your pitchforks for another day because this isn't worth it.. | ||
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Taiko88
Canada14 Posts
If I was a caster, biased opinions should not be allowed or accusations of cheating for the sake of "trolling". Dragon was scolded in the semi-finals for his 6CC build and that his greedy play should be punished, calling it mindless, etc... The casting seemed very one sided. I think casters can make light of the crazy situation where Dragon builds 6CC's but not to say his play is "obnoxious", and other put-down terms over his style of play. Then in the finals, when Dragon was clearly experiencing lag Katu immediately says he is cheating due to his past and how could he know to build a factory or move his CC in front of his main block. He was lagging, he couldn't even do anything, and he even started building a 3rd CC, no one who saw a roach rush would go 3CC's. The baseless accusation was what, personally, made me extremely angry over what was being said. Then he had the audacity to say (AND I QUOTE), "Dude, I hope they get mad, eat it. If they can't handle the truth then they can keep living in their fantasy world." Troll or not that is not only disrespectful to the community but to Dragon and really everyone. I was there and watched both streams. Troll or not it was very unprofessional, and you cannot represent a tournament/company that wishes to further itself in the SC2 community and grow e-sports. Ryan you get how to run a business and company, and you are awesome for it. I only hope this hasn't damaged Playhem to unrepairable measures. I'll be continuing to watch Playhem, I wish you all the best Ryan you handled this with A+ class. EDIT: @Shell - No one is saying that you shouldn't mention his past, what is being said that he is used it to make baseless accusations during said match, when clearly he was lagging on his own stream. Then calling purposely laughing at the whole situation like it was a joke to make baseless cheating accusations. During sport broadcasts you think if someone said a Baseball player is using steroids they would not be fired and legal actions taken? We need to be realistic here. Double EDIT: Here is the transcript: Katu: | ||
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jianming
149 Posts
On February 29 2012 03:17 shell wrote: Like cheating right Tuplag? Whatever lets ban a caster for calling cheater to a allready proven cheater, even if he doesn't do it anymore. Hey let's ban idra and incontrol for saying TT1 was a cheater also, lets ban destiny for saying deezer stream cheats then.. yeah sure He didn't perform to his standarts and surely shouldn't have done it but save your pitchforks for another day because this isn't worth it.. It's the fact that he actually made up stories. If he said "Dragon has had a cheating past", I doubt anyone would have cared. | ||
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aznball123
2759 Posts
As for Katu's punishment, I think he should just be suspended for a while and let him think about his actions. Plus a sincere apology. Everyone makes mistakes, it's forgivable. | ||
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Vodoonymous
Spain1 Post
On February 28 2012 14:59 VirgilSC2 wrote: When a player is suffering from lag while streaming their play, why is it the caster's responsibility to glance at chat (a common place for people to state facts such as "Day[9] Died") and then pause the game? In any other tournament environment (the standard everyone is currently upholding Katu to) it is the player's responsibility to request pauses. Also, I don't think calling for Katu to kill himself, or to be killed, etc. is the proper way to go about solving this issue. Something this event has proven is that Dragon has a huge portion of very immature fans (something I think to be brought about by the nature of his play). Furthermore, Playhem is currently streaming another show which is being completely derailed by Dragon's fans. If you want to accuse someone of unprofessional-ism, try to do it in a professional way. As someone who employs Katu for multiple events, I have spoken to him and warned him that anything like that is completely unacceptable in my events. However, I will not be suspending his casting for any of my events as he is, despite one moment of rash behavior, one of the best casters around. I think something people need to realize that everyone makes mistakes and overall, Katu is still a great caster. Dude, you just called 4k average people of dragon´s stream inmature? People in chat are silly? That people is the one that make your show possible. Fans don´t have to be professional because they are not professionals and we dont have to complain in a professional way, we are not being payed as katu was. Fans saying they want katu to be killed is obviously a way to show their rage of someone making laugh at them, you are talking like if any fan want katu to be really death and that´s soo silly. You just don´t want your show to loose caché because you have being traditionaly using a caster that revealed to be a very bad one. By the way, how is your show called??? I would like to know in wich show the fans are treated as silly money-bags. Really sorry for my bad english guys  | ||
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cydial
United States750 Posts
On February 29 2012 03:22 Taiko88 wrote: I commend Playhem and Ryan for taking this situation seriously. In any other entertainment venue this would be handled similarly with the removal of said person and some sort of compensation. If I was a caster, biased opinions should not be allowed or accusations of cheating for the sake of "trolling". Dragon was scolded in the semi-finals for his 6CC build and that his greedy play should be punished, calling it mindless, etc... The casting seemed very one sided. I think casters can make light of the crazy situation where Dragon builds 6CC's but not to say his play is "obnoxious", and other put-down terms over his style of play. Then in the finals, when Dragon was clearly experiencing lag Katu immediately says he is cheating due to his past and how could he know to build a factory or move his CC in front of his main block. He was lagging, he couldn't even do anything, and he even started building a 3rd CC, no one who saw a roach rush would go 3CC's. The baseless accusation was what, personally, made me extremely angry over what was being said. Then he had the audacity to say (AND I QUOTE), "Dude, I hope they get mad, eat it. If they can't handle the truth then they can keep living in their fantasy world." Troll or not that is not only disrespectful to the community but to Dragon and really everyone. I was there and watched both streams. Troll or not it was very unprofessional, and you cannot represent a tournament/company that wishes to further itself in the SC2 community and grow e-sports. Ryan you get how to run a business and company, and you are awesome for it. I only hope this hasn't damaged Playhem to unrepairable measures. I'll be continuing to watch Playhem, I wish you all the best Ryan you handled this with A+ class. EDIT: @Shell - No one is saying that you shouldn't mention his past, what is being said that he is used it to make baseless accusations during said match, when clearly he was lagging on his own stream. Then calling purposely laughing at the whole situation like it was a joke to make baseless cheating accusations. During sport broadcasts you think if someone said a Baseball player is using steroids they would not be fired and legal actions taken? We need to be realistic here. Double EDIT: Here is the transcript: Katu: Re-fucking-raging again. | ||
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Cygnus-X1
Canada14 Posts
Vod is here if you haven't seen it http://www.twitch.tv/playhemtv/b/310016388 Stuff starts going down at about 5:00 after the first game finished and stops when the second game starts. He then issues two on-air apologies, one after the second game and then another at 29:30, which to me sound sincere. I thought even when it happened it was pretty obvious he wasn’t being serious, but that’s just my opinion. Also, for some people who don't know about Dragons past before he started making funny faces on stream, he had to apologize to oGs for maphacking, streamcheating and match fixing, got kicked out of Werra before it disband for cheating and both he and Mr. Chae had to release a statement because the Korean fans were angry he was allowed to play in the GSL. As per http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/Dragon#Controversy Bottom line, he was joking around playing off Dragons less than squeeky clean past and went a bit too far, but it hardly deserves all this, and actually firing him is a bit of a joke. | ||
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Railgan
Switzerland1507 Posts
On February 29 2012 03:24 jianming wrote: It's the fact that he actually made up stories. If he said "Dragon has had a cheating past", I doubt anyone would have cared. people would even ran on the streets burning everything down if you just said Dragon was a bad player | ||
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The Shiva
United States8 Posts
On February 29 2012 02:48 shell wrote: No it isn't, if you work in a store and accuse someone they can: A)show they don't have nothing or B)wait for police to be checked by them IMO Dragon has a bad reputation that almost no one knew and Katu is a nice guy that does alot more for us then dragon imo, Rather have 1 katu then 20 more dragons so i won't kill him yet.. He was wrong but just let it be.. i think he understood and won't do it again! Ive worked in a few retail stores before and in every store it was against policy for floor associates to confront and/or detain the alleged shoplifter( and technically there not shoplifting until they leave the store) so to confront someone who may or may not be stealing and your wrong you potentially have a lawsuit on your hands and ive seen it before on the news of people suing store for falsely accusing someone of shoplifting. | ||
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Railgan
Switzerland1507 Posts
On February 29 2012 03:54 Cygnus-X1 wrote: I think it's hilarious that people are still saying Katu should be fired or threatening they will never watch again if he is a caster quite literally hours after Playhem announced they cut ties with him. Speaks to how seriously you should take some people who clearly haven't taken the time to actually find out what happened and just like grabbing their pitchforks and pointing them at someone. This is somebody’s career, if you are going to try and run it into the ground at least try and understand why you are doing it. Vod is here if you haven't seen it http://www.twitch.tv/playhemtv/b/310016388 Stuff starts going down at about 5:00 after the first game finished and stops when the second game starts. He then issues two on-air apologies, one after the second game and then another at 29:30, which to me sound sincere. I thought even when it happened it was pretty obvious he wasn’t being serious, but that’s just my opinion. Also, for some people who don't know about Dragons past before he started making funny faces on stream, he had to apologize to oGs for maphacking, streamcheating and match fixing, got kicked out of Werra before it disband for cheating and both he and Mr. Chae had to release a statement because the Korean fans were angry he was allowed to play in the GSL. As per http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/Dragon#Controversy Bottom line, he was joking around playing off Dragons less than squeeky clean past and went a bit too far, but it hardly deserves all this, and actually firing him is a bit of a joke. Say the truth while the 99% dont know it -> lose job. Happens all the time in todays world saddly. Just look at the politicans all around the world. | ||
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cydial
United States750 Posts
On February 28 2012 21:44 RyanDeSanto wrote: So there's no confusion, my comment about retribution was not meant to indicate favor in either direction. It was more a theoretical proposition that probably did not belong in my post to begin with. That said, its probably best not to leave this open ended. I can assure everyone that Katu will no longer be a representative of Playhem, and seemingly shouldn't have been for some time. There is justice in the world. Finally, that smug "Trolling" zero gameawareness caster is gone. | ||
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