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[Stream] KwarK - Page 3

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Pads
Profile Blog Joined January 2007
England3228 Posts
November 17 2009 11:36 GMT
#41
Can anyone point me in the direction of verification? can't seem to find it ;x
#1 Kwanro[saM] fan!
iNcontroL *
Profile Blog Joined July 2004
USA29055 Posts
November 17 2009 11:40 GMT
#42
Longi becomes motw and suddenly kwark is scrambling for streaming.

Oh btw the longi shit is just rumors. There wasn't a blog or anything made by kwark. Stop spreading misinformation you tossas.
Nytefish
Profile Blog Joined December 2007
United Kingdom4282 Posts
November 17 2009 12:31 GMT
#43
When a Terran plays a Protoss he decides beforehand to play build X. Anything that counters, slows down or prevents X is cheese or stupid shit.

The same Terran will proceed to bunker rush a Zerg then claim it's not cheese because he built a command centre or a vulture afterwards and lifted his proxy barracks back into his main.
No I'm never serious.
Holgerius
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
Sweden16951 Posts
November 17 2009 13:22 GMT
#44
Can't wait to see my least favourite player ever play!

+ Show Spoiler +
Kwark wrote:
my ongoing research into finding out every single way to beat a superior player using dark templars.


I believe in the almighty Grötslev! -- I am never serious and you should never believe a thing I say. Including the previous sentence.
n3m0
Profile Joined January 2007
Portugal247 Posts
November 17 2009 13:41 GMT
#45
ohoh let's get ready for 24/7 non-stop action :D
Former WGT Clan League Admin - Former Portugal A team manager - Former member of MgZ) / iG. / LRM) - Starcraft Broodwar
Piste
Profile Blog Joined July 2006
6183 Posts
November 17 2009 14:30 GMT
#46
On November 17 2009 14:00 SkepTicAL wrote:
The difference between PvsAll and TvZ is right here.

yeah the difference is that protoss needs to be extremely smart and careful and not being able to go B+ with just crazy multitasking =)
Shield
Profile Blog Joined August 2009
Bulgaria4824 Posts
November 17 2009 14:34 GMT
#47
I guess I missed this. I hope you stream soon enough.
KwarK
Profile Blog Joined July 2006
United States43571 Posts
November 17 2009 16:30 GMT
#48
On November 17 2009 20:40 {88}iNcontroL wrote:
Longi becomes motw and suddenly kwark is scrambling for streaming.

I got a new computer last week with dual core. I actually tried streaming about three months ago (there was a blog about it at the time) but it was too laggy to work. So the idea that the two are in any way related is unequivocably false.
ModeratorThe angels have the phone box
[DUF]MethodMan
Profile Blog Joined September 2006
Germany1716 Posts
November 17 2009 17:18 GMT
#49
all the terran newbs crying, delightful view. go on please.
stroggos
Profile Joined February 2009
New Zealand1543 Posts
November 17 2009 17:33 GMT
#50
cant wait to watch some of these games.
hi
Kyo Yuy
Profile Joined January 2009
United States1286 Posts
November 17 2009 18:04 GMT
#51
On November 17 2009 23:30 Piste wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 17 2009 14:00 SkepTicAL wrote:
The difference between PvsAll and TvZ is right here.

yeah the difference is that protoss needs to be extremely smart and careful and not being able to go B+ with just crazy multitasking =)

I don't think Kwark would do any APM intensive builds like sair/reaver.

Please correct me if I am wrong, Kwark.

If you can play sair/reaver efficiently with only 110 APM, I would love to see that sometime :D
#1 KawaiiRice fan :D
Nevuk
Profile Blog Joined March 2009
United States16280 Posts
November 17 2009 18:28 GMT
#52
I only watched a few games, but I'm curious as to why you made so many cannons in that pvz series?
LaLuSh
Profile Blog Joined April 2003
Sweden2358 Posts
November 17 2009 18:51 GMT
#53
On November 17 2009 19:15 meathook wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 17 2009 19:03 KwarK wrote:
On November 17 2009 18:56 meathook wrote:
On November 17 2009 16:43 KwarK wrote:
On November 17 2009 16:24 Cube wrote:
On November 17 2009 13:25 scintilliaSD wrote:
On November 17 2009 13:16 foppa wrote:
i dont understand how you can be b+ with 80 eapm. it just doesnt make sense

Watch and learn.


some people call it cheese

Vast majority of my games don't involve cheese. As the guy said, watch and learn.

True. Because in the eyes of a 100 apm toss marching up the ladder, proxy tech, centre gateway and two base carriers is the very definition of standard play.

As far as I remember I've used carriers once since the B ranks and that was on 5 bases in a very long PvZ. Centre gateways PvP once against a P who scouts way too late. No proxy tech, there's no point because decent players can work out exactly what's missing and it just slows you down.
The fact that I'm streaming gives people the new opportunity to see how I play before criticising it, instead of just assuming all I do is bulldog (I never bulldog) or some shit like that.

Don't get me wrong, I'm open to criticism, that's one of the most valuable aspects of streaming games to the public imo. I'll be able to get dozens of new perspectives on my game. But criticism from guys who haven't got any idea what they're talking about because they haven't taken the time to look but still feel like chiming in their two cents pisses me off.

I remember playing you a couple of times on iccup, and what I wrote above is exactly what you were doing. You posted a replay in the who's who a while back showcasing a proxy reaver strategy against some poor terran (who ended up raping you, actually).
I have seen games you've played on different occasions, each time it made me wince due to some sort of cheese by you. You are, in fact, known for this. If you feel I have an erroneous perception of your playstyle, you have only yourself to blame.


Dude prolly calls it "aggressive play". No way he's cheesin. Most games I've seen with kwark he does weird shit. His definition of cheese only seems to stretch to proxying shit, so we can't be using it here. Alot of the time his weird shit works too. But eventually you run out of weird shit...

It's like telling kwanro fans that kwanro's a cheeser. "No, he's just an aggressive player". "No that 2hatch muta vs P was a timing attack, it wasn't an all-in". People just have different ways of defining the word.
NonY
Profile Blog Joined June 2007
8751 Posts
November 17 2009 18:55 GMT
#54
On November 18 2009 03:28 Nevuk wrote:
I only watched a few games, but I'm curious as to why you made so many cannons in that pvz series?

Cannons are a low apm player's 2nd best weapon (DT being first)
"Fucking up is part of it. If you can't fail, you have to always win. And I don't think you can always win." Elliott Smith ---------- Yet no sudden rage darkened his face, and his eyes were calm as they studied her. Then he smiled. 'Witness.'
3clipse
Profile Blog Joined September 2008
Canada2555 Posts
November 17 2009 20:29 GMT
#55
On November 18 2009 03:51 LaLuSh wrote:
Dude prolly calls it "aggressive play". No way he's cheesin. Most games I've seen with kwark he does weird shit. His definition of cheese only seems to stretch to proxying shit, so we can't be using it here. Alot of the time his weird shit works too. But eventually you run out of weird shit...

It's like telling kwanro fans that kwanro's a cheeser. "No, he's just an aggressive player". "No that 2hatch muta vs P was a timing attack, it wasn't an all-in". People just have different ways of defining the word.

For example, you seem to be defining "weird shit" as an unconventional and unexpected strategy which exploits your opponents weaknesses while circumventing your own. I would argue that anyone who is for some reason morally opposed to doing "weird shit" is a bad player. If Starcraft were a fighting game or a rhythm game then I could see how play styles which attempt to bypass the importance of mechanical ability would be going against the spirit of the game, so to speak. The difference here being that Starcraft is a Real Time Strategy game. I think it's a shame that mechanics dominate our notions of skill and can often overcome build order/intel/strategic advantages in low levels of play, and I am honestly more impressed by someone like Kwark who manages to be extremely successful despite his slow hands than someone who is "conventionally" skilled such as Nony. I think there's much more to learn about the inherent weaknesses in certain timings, build orders, and races from someone who has no mechanical advantage to exploit and must rely heavily on his decision-making.
TheAntZ
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
Israel6248 Posts
November 17 2009 21:28 GMT
#56
On November 18 2009 05:29 3clipse wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 18 2009 03:51 LaLuSh wrote:
Dude prolly calls it "aggressive play". No way he's cheesin. Most games I've seen with kwark he does weird shit. His definition of cheese only seems to stretch to proxying shit, so we can't be using it here. Alot of the time his weird shit works too. But eventually you run out of weird shit...

It's like telling kwanro fans that kwanro's a cheeser. "No, he's just an aggressive player". "No that 2hatch muta vs P was a timing attack, it wasn't an all-in". People just have different ways of defining the word.

For example, you seem to be defining "weird shit" as an unconventional and unexpected strategy which exploits your opponents weaknesses while circumventing your own. I would argue that anyone who is for some reason morally opposed to doing "weird shit" is a bad player. If Starcraft were a fighting game or a rhythm game then I could see how play styles which attempt to bypass the importance of mechanical ability would be going against the spirit of the game, so to speak. The difference here being that Starcraft is a Real Time Strategy game. I think it's a shame that mechanics dominate our notions of skill and can often overcome build order/intel/strategic advantages in low levels of play, and I am honestly more impressed by someone like Kwark who manages to be extremely successful despite his slow hands than someone who is "conventionally" skilled such as Nony. I think there's much more to learn about the inherent weaknesses in certain timings, build orders, and races from someone who has no mechanical advantage to exploit and must rely heavily on his decision-making.


Nailed it.
Thought I love all the terrans in the thread going "WHAT HE DIDNT PLAY EXACTLY AS HE WAS SUPPOSED TO WTF IS THAT RAAAGGGEEEE"
43084 | Honeybadger: "So july, you're in the GSL finals. How do you feel?!" ~ July: "HUNGRY."
Nevuk
Profile Blog Joined March 2009
United States16280 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-11-17 21:29:42
November 17 2009 21:28 GMT
#57
On November 18 2009 03:55 Liquid`NonY wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 18 2009 03:28 Nevuk wrote:
I only watched a few games, but I'm curious as to why you made so many cannons in that pvz series?

Cannons are a low apm player's 2nd best weapon (DT being first)

I mean, yes, that is true, but at the same time he had something like 5 cannons at the front without scouting anything out of the ordinary. I die all the time in pvz due to only making 1 cannon, or even only 4 vs 3 hatch ling, but I do it as a way to force myself to develop better probe micro (I have held off 3 hatch ling with 4 cannons before, probe drills made it possible). As a B+ player, Kwark doesn't really seem to have that concern, rather just going for the greater security. I was wondering if it was a stylistic concern, ie, only due to low apm, or if he did it as a strategic decision, ie that his build was vulnerable to certain timing attacks no matter what so they were necessary.

edit : I use tons of cannons in pvt though, I hate vultures so much that it's not uncommon for me to have 7 or so cannons at a vulnerable expo.
WhuazGoodJaggah
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
Lesotho777 Posts
November 17 2009 21:51 GMT
#58
On November 18 2009 05:29 3clipse wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 18 2009 03:51 LaLuSh wrote:
Dude prolly calls it "aggressive play". No way he's cheesin. Most games I've seen with kwark he does weird shit. His definition of cheese only seems to stretch to proxying shit, so we can't be using it here. Alot of the time his weird shit works too. But eventually you run out of weird shit...

It's like telling kwanro fans that kwanro's a cheeser. "No, he's just an aggressive player". "No that 2hatch muta vs P was a timing attack, it wasn't an all-in". People just have different ways of defining the word.

For example, you seem to be defining "weird shit" as an unconventional and unexpected strategy which exploits your opponents weaknesses while circumventing your own. I would argue that anyone who is for some reason morally opposed to doing "weird shit" is a bad player. If Starcraft were a fighting game or a rhythm game then I could see how play styles which attempt to bypass the importance of mechanical ability would be going against the spirit of the game, so to speak. The difference here being that Starcraft is a Real Time Strategy game. I think it's a shame that mechanics dominate our notions of skill and can often overcome build order/intel/strategic advantages in low levels of play, and I am honestly more impressed by someone like Kwark who manages to be extremely successful despite his slow hands than someone who is "conventionally" skilled such as Nony. I think there's much more to learn about the inherent weaknesses in certain timings, build orders, and races from someone who has no mechanical advantage to exploit and must rely heavily on his decision-making.


yep, thats why I prefer low level games. you see much cooler stuff and not everything is predefined.
small dicks have great firepower
KwarK
Profile Blog Joined July 2006
United States43571 Posts
November 18 2009 00:58 GMT
#59
On November 18 2009 06:28 Nevuk wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 18 2009 03:55 Liquid`NonY wrote:
On November 18 2009 03:28 Nevuk wrote:
I only watched a few games, but I'm curious as to why you made so many cannons in that pvz series?

Cannons are a low apm player's 2nd best weapon (DT being first)

I mean, yes, that is true, but at the same time he had something like 5 cannons at the front without scouting anything out of the ordinary. I die all the time in pvz due to only making 1 cannon, or even only 4 vs 3 hatch ling, but I do it as a way to force myself to develop better probe micro (I have held off 3 hatch ling with 4 cannons before, probe drills made it possible). As a B+ player, Kwark doesn't really seem to have that concern, rather just going for the greater security. I was wondering if it was a stylistic concern, ie, only due to low apm, or if he did it as a strategic decision, ie that his build was vulnerable to certain timing attacks no matter what so they were necessary.

edit : I use tons of cannons in pvt though, I hate vultures so much that it's not uncommon for me to have 7 or so cannons at a vulnerable expo.

Actually I tend to do the opposite and go with 1 cannon PvZ if they are macroing up, instead relying on zealots unless I see some kind of hydra play. Last night my opponent was continually staying on hatchery and using hydralisks and I was scouting it. It's possible you missed me seeing the den or missed the tells that gave it away. While I do love the cannons late game because as Nony says you can just make them and forget about it the cannons early game were a reaction to the opponents style rather than a usual part of my game.
ModeratorThe angels have the phone box
KwarK
Profile Blog Joined July 2006
United States43571 Posts
November 18 2009 00:59 GMT
#60
On November 18 2009 03:04 Kyo Yuy wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 17 2009 23:30 Piste wrote:
On November 17 2009 14:00 SkepTicAL wrote:
The difference between PvsAll and TvZ is right here.

yeah the difference is that protoss needs to be extremely smart and careful and not being able to go B+ with just crazy multitasking =)

I don't think Kwark would do any APM intensive builds like sair/reaver.

Please correct me if I am wrong, Kwark.

If you can play sair/reaver efficiently with only 110 APM, I would love to see that sometime :D

My sair reaver is horrific. I can't make the transition into a ground army late game and end up with 4k minerals.
ModeratorThe angels have the phone box
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