EPTGG.net bans all TSL2 abusers for six months - Page 3
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Fallout
Sweden54 Posts
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RebirthOfLeGenD
USA5860 Posts
On December 18 2009 09:10 HazMat wrote: Imagine getting banned from Iccup O.o that would be insane. Not sure if good or bad though, | ||
Korn
United Kingdom10 Posts
List of invalid arguments that were used then and are still being used now: 1) "But they didn't need the abuse/hack to quality..." That's like arguing that a fast runner who took Gold in the Olympics but was doped shouldn't be punished because he didn't need the doping in the first place. Cheating/abusing is quite simply wrong and unfair and a sign of huge disrespect for the game, the tournament, the tournament organisers and of course all the players who do not cheat or abuse. 2) "But they deserve a second chance / they shouldn't be banned for that long, etc" Well, apparently they should. It's a huge disgrace that so many players still cheat at Starcraft nowadays. One of the key reasons here is that players simple historically didn't have to fear much. I mean, think about it: there is such a huge culture of leniency that even very decent personalities are starting to cheat. 3) "Oh, but they just abused in this tournament" Well, this tournament involves a price pool or more than $20.000 USD. If you cheat others out of that money or a part of that money, you'd usually face criminal charges. Just because it's a computer game doesn't make this less worse. All the cheating and abusing takes place at the expensve of all the legit players, who have a right to a fair and proper competition and a fair and proper reward for their performance. 4) "But these players shouldn't be banned, they are so good ..." The easy truth of the matter is that while they might be very good players, they are very very bad for the entire Starcraft community, the perception of the game and of course any sort of competitive Starcraft that most here enjoy very much. I think the entire Starcraft, or entire e-Sports community, should endorse a very strict and very consequential anti-cheating and anti-abuse policy. | ||
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0cz3c
United States564 Posts
On December 18 2009 09:47 Korn wrote: This aspect of the Starcraft community hasn't really changed much, it reminds me of discussions in 1999 when the first map hackers/abusers got caught in proper competitions. List of invalid arguments that were used then and are still being used now: 1) "But they didn't need the abuse/hack to quality..." That's like arguing that a fast runner who took Gold in the Olympics but was doped shouldn't be punished because he didn't need the doping in the first place. Cheating/abusing is quite simply wrong and unfair and a sign of huge disrespect for the game, the tournament, the tournament organisers and of course all the players who do not cheat or abuse. 2) "But they deserve a second chance / they shouldn't be banned for that long, etc" Well, apparently they should. It's a huge disgrace that so many players still cheat at Starcraft nowadays. One of the key reasons here is that players simple historically didn't have to fear much. I mean, think about it: there is such a huge culture of leniency that even very decent personalities are starting to cheat. 3) "Oh, but they just abused in this tournament" Well, this tournament involves a price pool or more than $20.000 USD. If you cheat others out of that money or a part of that money, you'd usually face criminal charges. Just because it's a computer game doesn't make this less worse. All the cheating and abusing takes place at the expensve of all the legit players, who have a right to a fair and proper competition and a fair and proper reward for their performance. 4) "But these players shouldn't be banned, they are so good ..." The easy truth of the matter is that while they might be very good players, they are very very bad for the entire Starcraft community, the perception of the game and of course any sort of competitive Starcraft that most here enjoy very much. I think the entire Starcraft, or entire e-Sports community, should endorse a very strict and very consequential anti-cheating and anti-abuse policy. Wow. Very well said. | ||
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Beside_kr
Canada902 Posts
On December 18 2009 09:47 Korn wrote: This aspect of the Starcraft community hasn't really changed much, it reminds me of discussions in 1999 when the first map hackers/abusers got caught in proper competitions. List of invalid arguments that were used then and are still being used now: 1) "But they didn't need the abuse/hack to quality..." That's like arguing that a fast runner who took Gold in the Olympics but was doped shouldn't be punished because he didn't need the doping in the first place. Cheating/abusing is quite simply wrong and unfair and a sign of huge disrespect for the game, the tournament, the tournament organisers and of course all the players who do not cheat or abuse. 2) "But they deserve a second chance / they shouldn't be banned for that long, etc" Well, apparently they should. It's a huge disgrace that so many players still cheat at Starcraft nowadays. One of the key reasons here is that players simple historically didn't have to fear much. I mean, think about it: there is such a huge culture of leniency that even very decent personalities are starting to cheat. 3) "Oh, but they just abused in this tournament" Well, this tournament involves a price pool or more than $20.000 USD. If you cheat others out of that money or a part of that money, you'd usually face criminal charges. Just because it's a computer game doesn't make this less worse. All the cheating and abusing takes place at the expensve of all the legit players, who have a right to a fair and proper competition and a fair and proper reward for their performance. 4) "But these players shouldn't be banned, they are so good ..." The easy truth of the matter is that while they might be very good players, they are very very bad for the entire Starcraft community, the perception of the game and of course any sort of competitive Starcraft that most here enjoy very much. I think the entire Starcraft, or entire e-Sports community, should endorse a very strict and very consequential anti-cheating and anti-abuse policy. all good points and I agree the real question is: will we be seeing the return of [pG]Korn to the world of starcraft commentating? | ||
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Lebesgue
4542 Posts
On December 18 2009 09:41 Fallout wrote: It's good to know that cheaters will have their punishment. But will it have any longer effect? What will a 6 month ban do if SC2 come the 1Q of next year? Everyone will start playing that game. The abusers should be punish. I am really glad gg.net did that. It seems like too many people are ready to forgive cheating in SC... Just because they are good/famous players. If the punishment will affect them who knows. But at least it sets an example for the others. Hopefully people will think twice before they decide to cheat. | ||
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bluemanrocks
United States304 Posts
still sad though =((((( | ||
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tedster
984 Posts
On December 18 2009 09:54 bluemanrocks wrote: i mean, seeing as people have been permabanned for being caught hacking/abusing (clazzi, kawaii, etc. etc.) before i cant imagine anything less for an offense on a much grander scale. and as sad as that makes me (ive always been a mercy > justice kind of guy) i can totally understand and support that as punishment seeing it as an alternative to promoting abusing. still sad though =((((( It's not a matter of mercy vs. justice, or revenge, or anything like that. It's about someone who has shown they would willingly compromise a competition and STEAL MONEY FROM PEOPLE WHO LEGITIMATELY EARN IT. Those people cannot be allowed to compete again under the same rules, even if just to discourage future behavior from themselves and others. | ||
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Boundz(DarKo)
5311 Posts
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Belano
Sweden657 Posts
Theres nothing worse than cheating/abusing in competitive gaming, in my opinion. I would rant some more but Korn pretty much covered it already. While I'm at it I would like to thank TL staff for their magnificent work with the ladder, and with catching the abusers. Keep it up! | ||
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Tarmak_mk
Macedonia410 Posts
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Liquid`Nazgul
22427 Posts
I think Korn has worded it very well. Abuse and cheating are an enormous problem in esports and your attitude OctZerg is what causes this problem. Unfortunate as it may be people are not punished enough nor looked down upon enough which makes players think it is fine to do things like this. It's not. It is essentially stealing. Does it make sense to steal a car and when you get caught offer to return it? | ||
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HazMat
United States17077 Posts
On December 18 2009 09:54 bluemanrocks wrote: i mean, seeing as people have been permabanned for being caught hacking/abusing (clazzi, kawaii, etc. etc.) before i cant imagine anything less for an offense on a much grander scale. and as sad as that makes me (ive always been a mercy > justice kind of guy) i can totally understand and support that as punishment seeing it as an alternative to promoting abusing. still sad though =((((( Kawaii? Dont you mean SCan, the other streamer who listens to J-Pop | ||
GrandInquisitor
New York City13113 Posts
On December 18 2009 09:01 {88}nataL wrote: I think the bans are absolutely pointless. Why ban them when all the abusers who didn't even get a look over because they didn't make it into the top 48 get a pass? Either hate cheaters enough to find them all and punish them all, or don't punish any of them. I think jailing murderers is absolutely pointless. Why jail them when all the murderers who didn't get caught get a pass? Either hate murder enough to find them all and punish them all, or don't punish any of them. | ||
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Shikyo
Finland33997 Posts
On December 18 2009 10:59 HazMat wrote: Kawaii? Dont you mean SCan, the other streamer who listens to J-Pop Afaik kawaiirice was banned from TSL for x amount of time because he helped a friend of his abuse in the past TSL. Correct me if I'm wrong. | ||
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sorech02
United States15 Posts
On December 18 2009 11:09 Shikyo wrote: Afaik kawaiirice was banned from TSL for x amount of time because he helped a friend of his abuse in the past TSL. Correct me if I'm wrong. I believe you are wrong, as he has qualified, and is in Group H. | ||
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aTnClouD
Italy2428 Posts
On December 18 2009 09:47 Korn wrote: This aspect of the Starcraft community hasn't really changed much, it reminds me of discussions in 1999 when the first map hackers/abusers got caught in proper competitions. List of invalid arguments that were used then and are still being used now: 1) "But they didn't need the abuse/hack to quality..." That's like arguing that a fast runner who took Gold in the Olympics but was doped shouldn't be punished because he didn't need the doping in the first place. Cheating/abusing is quite simply wrong and unfair and a sign of huge disrespect for the game, the tournament, the tournament organisers and of course all the players who do not cheat or abuse. 2) "But they deserve a second chance / they shouldn't be banned for that long, etc" Well, apparently they should. It's a huge disgrace that so many players still cheat at Starcraft nowadays. One of the key reasons here is that players simple historically didn't have to fear much. I mean, think about it: there is such a huge culture of leniency that even very decent personalities are starting to cheat. 3) "Oh, but they just abused in this tournament" Well, this tournament involves a price pool or more than $20.000 USD. If you cheat others out of that money or a part of that money, you'd usually face criminal charges. Just because it's a computer game doesn't make this less worse. All the cheating and abusing takes place at the expensve of all the legit players, who have a right to a fair and proper competition and a fair and proper reward for their performance. 4) "But these players shouldn't be banned, they are so good ..." The easy truth of the matter is that while they might be very good players, they are very very bad for the entire Starcraft community, the perception of the game and of course any sort of competitive Starcraft that most here enjoy very much. I think the entire Starcraft, or entire e-Sports community, should endorse a very strict and very consequential anti-cheating and anti-abuse policy. I've been repeating what you say in point 2 for YEARS, and yet people seem to not care and think maphacking or cheating in any way is not an huge offence to the community. I think it is, and I'm glad someone else does. | ||
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Trezeguet
United States2656 Posts
On December 18 2009 09:47 Korn wrote: This aspect of the Starcraft community hasn't really changed much, it reminds me of discussions in 1999 when the first map hackers/abusers got caught in proper competitions. List of invalid arguments that were used then and are still being used now: 1) "But they didn't need the abuse/hack to quality..." That's like arguing that a fast runner who took Gold in the Olympics but was doped shouldn't be punished because he didn't need the doping in the first place. Cheating/abusing is quite simply wrong and unfair and a sign of huge disrespect for the game, the tournament, the tournament organisers and of course all the players who do not cheat or abuse. 2) "But they deserve a second chance / they shouldn't be banned for that long, etc" Well, apparently they should. It's a huge disgrace that so many players still cheat at Starcraft nowadays. One of the key reasons here is that players simple historically didn't have to fear much. I mean, think about it: there is such a huge culture of leniency that even very decent personalities are starting to cheat. 3) "Oh, but they just abused in this tournament" Well, this tournament involves a price pool or more than $20.000 USD. If you cheat others out of that money or a part of that money, you'd usually face criminal charges. Just because it's a computer game doesn't make this less worse. All the cheating and abusing takes place at the expensve of all the legit players, who have a right to a fair and proper competition and a fair and proper reward for their performance. 4) "But these players shouldn't be banned, they are so good ..." The easy truth of the matter is that while they might be very good players, they are very very bad for the entire Starcraft community, the perception of the game and of course any sort of competitive Starcraft that most here enjoy very much. I think the entire Starcraft, or entire e-Sports community, should endorse a very strict and very consequential anti-cheating and anti-abuse policy. 4/4 would read again | ||
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ShaLLoW[baY]
Canada12499 Posts
On December 18 2009 11:09 Shikyo wrote: Afaik kawaiirice was banned from TSL for x amount of time because he helped a friend of his abuse in the past TSL. Correct me if I'm wrong. He was banned because he helped Lastshadow at WCG by being bm obs and messaging him with shit his opponent was doing? Although I do remember the TSL abuse taking place too. | ||
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thopol
Japan4560 Posts
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