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On December 21 2009 02:06 iG.ClouD wrote:Show nested quote +On December 21 2009 01:53 Biff The Understudy wrote:On December 21 2009 01:38 Liquid`NonY wrote:On December 20 2009 20:16 Piste wrote:On December 18 2009 11:55 ms291052 wrote:
F91's case, in particular, was special because he didn't try to cover his abuse, and immediately apologized and withdrew from the tournament. I say ban the other bastards, but F91's punishment needs to be less severe. He's an honest guy, and we all want to see him do well. ehh f91's case is not different at all. the fact that you are his fanboy does not make his abusing any more acceptable. What ms291052 said was inaccurate anyway as has been pointed out by someone else already (forgot who). When ash asked F91 about the suspicious games, F91 said they were legit. It wasn't until evidence was brought against him, and it was clear that he was in trouble no matter what he said, that he confessed. When ash made a new thread it certainly didn't read that way. But if you were on TL.net and reading the ladder thread as these games were happening, then it was clear that F91 was dishonest with words as well as actions. Even if he confessed immediately, he's still not an honest guy. Abuse/cheating = dishonesty. So elegant Nony. Last time you met F91, he spanked you, and you behaved at the very limit of the complete bad manner. Afterward, instead of the sportmanship everybody expected, you complained about the lag, and that's all people could get from you. Now, you have your chance to have your little revenge so you are in every thread in TL related to abusing to put more shit on his head that he did himself. I was supporting you last TSL. I remember this sentence from Mondragon in TL attack: "I don't like his attitude when he loses. I think it's... unapropriate." You lost a fan. And that has nothing to do with the question wether if F91 had better reason than other to cheat. The fact Nony does it for his personal little revenge on something happened months ago is your speculation. F91 cheated on purpose and lied about it like the vast majority of cheaters, and Nony is pointing this out. It's the truth regardless the reason he is saying it for. If we go for speculations then shall I think you are getting angry just because you like F91 to the point of trying to shift the attention from his very recent abuse on TSL2 to some very old stuff no one cares about anymore?
I really don't give a damn about F91, trust me. I don't give a damn about any abuser. They are out of the tourney, that's fine.
When someone kicked your ass last time you met him in front of all TL, and you left, you dodged his manager, you barely gg, and you say you lost because of lag, you avoid going into a crusade when he is in the shit for having been stupid. Because that's fucking inelegant.
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On December 21 2009 02:15 Biff The Understudy wrote:Show nested quote +On December 21 2009 02:06 iG.ClouD wrote:On December 21 2009 01:53 Biff The Understudy wrote:On December 21 2009 01:38 Liquid`NonY wrote:On December 20 2009 20:16 Piste wrote:On December 18 2009 11:55 ms291052 wrote:
F91's case, in particular, was special because he didn't try to cover his abuse, and immediately apologized and withdrew from the tournament. I say ban the other bastards, but F91's punishment needs to be less severe. He's an honest guy, and we all want to see him do well. ehh f91's case is not different at all. the fact that you are his fanboy does not make his abusing any more acceptable. What ms291052 said was inaccurate anyway as has been pointed out by someone else already (forgot who). When ash asked F91 about the suspicious games, F91 said they were legit. It wasn't until evidence was brought against him, and it was clear that he was in trouble no matter what he said, that he confessed. When ash made a new thread it certainly didn't read that way. But if you were on TL.net and reading the ladder thread as these games were happening, then it was clear that F91 was dishonest with words as well as actions. Even if he confessed immediately, he's still not an honest guy. Abuse/cheating = dishonesty. So elegant Nony. Last time you met F91, he spanked you, and you behaved at the very limit of the complete bad manner. Afterward, instead of the sportmanship everybody expected, you complained about the lag, and that's all people could get from you. Now, you have your chance to have your little revenge so you are in every thread in TL related to abusing to put more shit on his head that he did himself. I was supporting you last TSL. I remember this sentence from Mondragon in TL attack: "I don't like his attitude when he loses. I think it's... unapropriate." You lost a fan. And that has nothing to do with the question wether if F91 had better reason than other to cheat. The fact Nony does it for his personal little revenge on something happened months ago is your speculation. F91 cheated on purpose and lied about it like the vast majority of cheaters, and Nony is pointing this out. It's the truth regardless the reason he is saying it for. If we go for speculations then shall I think you are getting angry just because you like F91 to the point of trying to shift the attention from his very recent abuse on TSL2 to some very old stuff no one cares about anymore? I really don't give a damn about F91, trust me. I don't give a damn about any abuser. They are out of the tourney, that's fine. When someone kicked your ass last time you met him in front of all TL, and you left, you dodged his manager, you barely gg, and you say you lost because of lag, you avoid going into a crusade when he is in the shit for having been stupid. Because that's fucking inelegant.
To be honest no one gives a shit anymore and this is not the right thread to speak about that.
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On December 21 2009 02:10 Liquid`Nazgul wrote:Show nested quote +On December 21 2009 01:17 Biff The Understudy wrote:
Apparently punishing the bad ones is part of the show.
Well, in middle age people used to go see people get executed on public place, I guess it is the same kind of entertainement.
I don't like abusers but the whole thing is a bit sad. There's definitely a hidden truth in your statement. Punishment has a couple of motivators: Redemption for victims, removing offenders from society, and a public statement to deter others from doing the same. The deterring others is clearly going to play a part in making the online environment a cleaner place. Calling what we are trying to do here entertainment is a cheap shot and ignores the actual intention behind it.
I dislike more the prison keeper than his prisonner, or the executionner than the murderer.
The fact that you guy have to ban/punish hacker is understandable. The fact that it becomes a hype with everybody getting so excited, asking for blood and you making sensationnal anouncement leaves me a bit cold. Punishing should never be more than a sad necessity. IMO.
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On December 21 2009 02:20 Biff The Understudy wrote:
Punishing should never be more than a sad necessity.
You are wrong because it is way more than that. It sets an example for whoever will think about cheating or abusing in the future. People ask for blood because they know you can't use reason with people who try to behave above the rules, and unfortunately the possibility of punishment is the only thing which keeps many of them from doing so.
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at first i thought that kinda sucks, its like getting punished in one country and slapped in another
but then i thought actually, its a better argument that this is a true starcraft community when websites dont have to dictate how we should act
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Biff we want the blood that was promised.
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On December 21 2009 02:23 iG.ClouD wrote:Show nested quote +On December 21 2009 02:20 Biff The Understudy wrote:
Punishing should never be more than a sad necessity. You are wrong because it is way more than that. It sets an example for whoever will think about cheating or abusing in the future. People ask for blood because they know you can't use reason with people who try to behave above the rules, and unfortunately the possibility of punishment is the only thing which keeps many of them from doing so.
That's one answer I understand. Not sure it is efficient, unfortunately.
Sad sad sad. Anyway. Hopefully we don't have more of this shit in future events.
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On December 21 2009 02:28 Biff The Understudy wrote:
That's one answer I understand. Not sure it is efficient, unfortunately.
If anything the harsher the penalty, in this case, the more socially efficient. A life-time ban on TL tournaments for any abuser would have the two-fold benefit of permanently removing existing dishonest players from participation in future events (presumably creating some sort of benefit for the community as a whole) and creating a strong deterrent for future abusers/cheaters. Those who still deem it worthwhile to cheat even knowing the consequences in the future are probably incorrigible enough that a lifetime ban would then make sense anyways. Either way, it creates the most benefit possible for all those not involved for a minimum of work both now and in the future. Thats extremely efficient.
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On December 21 2009 02:40 See.Blue wrote:
If anything the harsher the penalty, in this case, the more socially efficient.
Unfortunately, it doesn't work this way. Look at criminality and justice policy in the US and compare with elsewhere. The fact that the most repressive of the western country is also the one with the highest criminality, the fact that death penalty doesn't lower for shit the number of murder, which is much much higher in US than anywhere in Europe is in itself a counter-argument.
Anyway, doesn't matter.
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8748 Posts
Yeah I'm aware of the fact that every time I publicly say something bad about a player I've I lost to, especially if the match was especially ugly, it's an opportunity for people to interpret it as personal. But Kennigit pretty much nailed it. If the general response was different, I certainly would stay far away from these threads. But the way people have been reacting has compelled me to post. I know how to foster a squeaky-clean reputation but I'm not going to put on an act or stay quiet when important issues are at hand.
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On December 21 2009 02:15 Biff The Understudy wrote:Show nested quote +On December 21 2009 02:06 iG.ClouD wrote:On December 21 2009 01:53 Biff The Understudy wrote:On December 21 2009 01:38 Liquid`NonY wrote:On December 20 2009 20:16 Piste wrote:On December 18 2009 11:55 ms291052 wrote:
F91's case, in particular, was special because he didn't try to cover his abuse, and immediately apologized and withdrew from the tournament. I say ban the other bastards, but F91's punishment needs to be less severe. He's an honest guy, and we all want to see him do well. ehh f91's case is not different at all. the fact that you are his fanboy does not make his abusing any more acceptable. What ms291052 said was inaccurate anyway as has been pointed out by someone else already (forgot who). When ash asked F91 about the suspicious games, F91 said they were legit. It wasn't until evidence was brought against him, and it was clear that he was in trouble no matter what he said, that he confessed. When ash made a new thread it certainly didn't read that way. But if you were on TL.net and reading the ladder thread as these games were happening, then it was clear that F91 was dishonest with words as well as actions. Even if he confessed immediately, he's still not an honest guy. Abuse/cheating = dishonesty. So elegant Nony. Last time you met F91, he spanked you, and you behaved at the very limit of the complete bad manner. Afterward, instead of the sportmanship everybody expected, you complained about the lag, and that's all people could get from you. Now, you have your chance to have your little revenge so you are in every thread in TL related to abusing to put more shit on his head that he did himself. I was supporting you last TSL. I remember this sentence from Mondragon in TL attack: "I don't like his attitude when he loses. I think it's... unapropriate." You lost a fan. And that has nothing to do with the question wether if F91 had better reason than other to cheat. The fact Nony does it for his personal little revenge on something happened months ago is your speculation. F91 cheated on purpose and lied about it like the vast majority of cheaters, and Nony is pointing this out. It's the truth regardless the reason he is saying it for. If we go for speculations then shall I think you are getting angry just because you like F91 to the point of trying to shift the attention from his very recent abuse on TSL2 to some very old stuff no one cares about anymore? I really don't give a damn about F91, trust me. I don't give a damn about any abuser. They are out of the tourney, that's fine. When someone kicked your ass last time you met him in front of all TL, and you left, you dodged his manager, you barely gg, and you say you lost because of lag, you avoid going into a crusade when he is in the shit for having been stupid. Because that's fucking inelegant.
OH NOES, someone has been BM in the past! His opinion is completely irrelevant then!
Welcome to the real world buddy.
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On December 21 2009 02:48 Gumbo wrote:Show nested quote +On December 21 2009 02:15 Biff The Understudy wrote:On December 21 2009 02:06 iG.ClouD wrote:On December 21 2009 01:53 Biff The Understudy wrote:On December 21 2009 01:38 Liquid`NonY wrote:On December 20 2009 20:16 Piste wrote:On December 18 2009 11:55 ms291052 wrote:
F91's case, in particular, was special because he didn't try to cover his abuse, and immediately apologized and withdrew from the tournament. I say ban the other bastards, but F91's punishment needs to be less severe. He's an honest guy, and we all want to see him do well. ehh f91's case is not different at all. the fact that you are his fanboy does not make his abusing any more acceptable. What ms291052 said was inaccurate anyway as has been pointed out by someone else already (forgot who). When ash asked F91 about the suspicious games, F91 said they were legit. It wasn't until evidence was brought against him, and it was clear that he was in trouble no matter what he said, that he confessed. When ash made a new thread it certainly didn't read that way. But if you were on TL.net and reading the ladder thread as these games were happening, then it was clear that F91 was dishonest with words as well as actions. Even if he confessed immediately, he's still not an honest guy. Abuse/cheating = dishonesty. So elegant Nony. Last time you met F91, he spanked you, and you behaved at the very limit of the complete bad manner. Afterward, instead of the sportmanship everybody expected, you complained about the lag, and that's all people could get from you. Now, you have your chance to have your little revenge so you are in every thread in TL related to abusing to put more shit on his head that he did himself. I was supporting you last TSL. I remember this sentence from Mondragon in TL attack: "I don't like his attitude when he loses. I think it's... unapropriate." You lost a fan. And that has nothing to do with the question wether if F91 had better reason than other to cheat. The fact Nony does it for his personal little revenge on something happened months ago is your speculation. F91 cheated on purpose and lied about it like the vast majority of cheaters, and Nony is pointing this out. It's the truth regardless the reason he is saying it for. If we go for speculations then shall I think you are getting angry just because you like F91 to the point of trying to shift the attention from his very recent abuse on TSL2 to some very old stuff no one cares about anymore? I really don't give a damn about F91, trust me. I don't give a damn about any abuser. They are out of the tourney, that's fine. When someone kicked your ass last time you met him in front of all TL, and you left, you dodged his manager, you barely gg, and you say you lost because of lag, you avoid going into a crusade when he is in the shit for having been stupid. Because that's fucking inelegant. OH NOES, someone has been BM in the past! His opinion is completely irrelevant then! Welcome to the real world buddy.
His opinion is perfecty relevant, and he may absolutely be right.
I won't trry to explain you the whole concept of elegance if you don't understand.
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On December 21 2009 02:52 Biff The Understudy wrote:Show nested quote +On December 21 2009 02:48 Gumbo wrote:On December 21 2009 02:15 Biff The Understudy wrote:On December 21 2009 02:06 iG.ClouD wrote:On December 21 2009 01:53 Biff The Understudy wrote:On December 21 2009 01:38 Liquid`NonY wrote:On December 20 2009 20:16 Piste wrote:On December 18 2009 11:55 ms291052 wrote:
F91's case, in particular, was special because he didn't try to cover his abuse, and immediately apologized and withdrew from the tournament. I say ban the other bastards, but F91's punishment needs to be less severe. He's an honest guy, and we all want to see him do well. ehh f91's case is not different at all. the fact that you are his fanboy does not make his abusing any more acceptable. What ms291052 said was inaccurate anyway as has been pointed out by someone else already (forgot who). When ash asked F91 about the suspicious games, F91 said they were legit. It wasn't until evidence was brought against him, and it was clear that he was in trouble no matter what he said, that he confessed. When ash made a new thread it certainly didn't read that way. But if you were on TL.net and reading the ladder thread as these games were happening, then it was clear that F91 was dishonest with words as well as actions. Even if he confessed immediately, he's still not an honest guy. Abuse/cheating = dishonesty. So elegant Nony. Last time you met F91, he spanked you, and you behaved at the very limit of the complete bad manner. Afterward, instead of the sportmanship everybody expected, you complained about the lag, and that's all people could get from you. Now, you have your chance to have your little revenge so you are in every thread in TL related to abusing to put more shit on his head that he did himself. I was supporting you last TSL. I remember this sentence from Mondragon in TL attack: "I don't like his attitude when he loses. I think it's... unapropriate." You lost a fan. And that has nothing to do with the question wether if F91 had better reason than other to cheat. The fact Nony does it for his personal little revenge on something happened months ago is your speculation. F91 cheated on purpose and lied about it like the vast majority of cheaters, and Nony is pointing this out. It's the truth regardless the reason he is saying it for. If we go for speculations then shall I think you are getting angry just because you like F91 to the point of trying to shift the attention from his very recent abuse on TSL2 to some very old stuff no one cares about anymore? I really don't give a damn about F91, trust me. I don't give a damn about any abuser. They are out of the tourney, that's fine. When someone kicked your ass last time you met him in front of all TL, and you left, you dodged his manager, you barely gg, and you say you lost because of lag, you avoid going into a crusade when he is in the shit for having been stupid. Because that's fucking inelegant. OH NOES, someone has been BM in the past! His opinion is completely irrelevant then! Welcome to the real world buddy. His opinion is perfecty relevant, and he may absolutely be right. I won't trry to explain you the whole concept of elegance if you don't understand.
I just feel that what happened between F91 and Nony is not not worth being brought back, unless like Nony kept bashing on F91 over and over again.
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On December 21 2009 02:56 Gumbo wrote:Show nested quote +On December 21 2009 02:52 Biff The Understudy wrote:On December 21 2009 02:48 Gumbo wrote:On December 21 2009 02:15 Biff The Understudy wrote:On December 21 2009 02:06 iG.ClouD wrote:On December 21 2009 01:53 Biff The Understudy wrote:On December 21 2009 01:38 Liquid`NonY wrote:On December 20 2009 20:16 Piste wrote:On December 18 2009 11:55 ms291052 wrote:
F91's case, in particular, was special because he didn't try to cover his abuse, and immediately apologized and withdrew from the tournament. I say ban the other bastards, but F91's punishment needs to be less severe. He's an honest guy, and we all want to see him do well. ehh f91's case is not different at all. the fact that you are his fanboy does not make his abusing any more acceptable. What ms291052 said was inaccurate anyway as has been pointed out by someone else already (forgot who). When ash asked F91 about the suspicious games, F91 said they were legit. It wasn't until evidence was brought against him, and it was clear that he was in trouble no matter what he said, that he confessed. When ash made a new thread it certainly didn't read that way. But if you were on TL.net and reading the ladder thread as these games were happening, then it was clear that F91 was dishonest with words as well as actions. Even if he confessed immediately, he's still not an honest guy. Abuse/cheating = dishonesty. So elegant Nony. Last time you met F91, he spanked you, and you behaved at the very limit of the complete bad manner. Afterward, instead of the sportmanship everybody expected, you complained about the lag, and that's all people could get from you. Now, you have your chance to have your little revenge so you are in every thread in TL related to abusing to put more shit on his head that he did himself. I was supporting you last TSL. I remember this sentence from Mondragon in TL attack: "I don't like his attitude when he loses. I think it's... unapropriate." You lost a fan. And that has nothing to do with the question wether if F91 had better reason than other to cheat. The fact Nony does it for his personal little revenge on something happened months ago is your speculation. F91 cheated on purpose and lied about it like the vast majority of cheaters, and Nony is pointing this out. It's the truth regardless the reason he is saying it for. If we go for speculations then shall I think you are getting angry just because you like F91 to the point of trying to shift the attention from his very recent abuse on TSL2 to some very old stuff no one cares about anymore? I really don't give a damn about F91, trust me. I don't give a damn about any abuser. They are out of the tourney, that's fine. When someone kicked your ass last time you met him in front of all TL, and you left, you dodged his manager, you barely gg, and you say you lost because of lag, you avoid going into a crusade when he is in the shit for having been stupid. Because that's fucking inelegant. OH NOES, someone has been BM in the past! His opinion is completely irrelevant then! Welcome to the real world buddy. His opinion is perfecty relevant, and he may absolutely be right. I won't trry to explain you the whole concept of elegance if you don't understand. I just feel that what happened between F91 and Nony is not not worth being brought back, unless like Nony kept bashing on F91 over and over again.
That's pretty much what he has been doing this week.
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On December 20 2009 20:11 meRz wrote:Show nested quote +On December 20 2009 10:25 tonight wrote:On December 20 2009 04:32 H wrote:On December 20 2009 03:38 tonight wrote:
I really don't think these guys should be blacklisted from the whole BW community which it sounds like most of you want. For the most part these guys are legit and skilled players who have been around the game for many years. Yes, their actions need to be punished, but we should not just cut them off from the community all together. People like you are exactly why the tournament had so many abusers. Because in the past, they could get away with it with a slap on the wrist. They need to learn sometime. Really, I'm the reason people abuse? I never said they shouldn't be banned from tournaments. I just hate all you pricks with your holier than thou approach to it. I just said they shouldn't. be permanently black listed from the community that they have been a part of for a long time. Yes, maybe life time ban them from all money related tournaments, but not every single little thing. Once again, all I said is they should be punished, but not cut off from the community all together. You hate pricks who think they're "holier than thou". Well guess what, some people are simply more legit than others. It's fucking disrespectful, especially towards the 100% legit people, to do things like this. Imagine Lzgamer for example, people who have never cheated in anything, people who played like 200+ games just to qualify, who basically missed out on qualifications just because of the abuse that was going on. This prevented them from participating in a tournament offering a grand total of 23,000 dollars in prize money, which basically means they stole their chance to earn some money. So yeah, really, you're a perfect example of why abuse is still happening, disqualification from the tournament is nothing, they missed their chance this time, better luck cheating next time. What GG.net does, and what presumeably TL.net will do, is the right thing to do, it'll make people think twice, or even three times, before they'd ever consider abusing again. You're such a hypocrit it disgusts me. Had this been lesser known players, or "new" players to the community, you'd never make this argument. I don't see ANYONE defending players like Scan or Mercury, because they were nobodys and not famous enough, that suddenly makes their punishment more okay than for example A2's punishment? What is there to think about from these people if they are permanently banned from everything? It makes other people think, but not those people. I'm not saying what's done is done I'm saying they need to be punished, but not shoved out of the community completely. I didn't say DQ from the tournament only. It looks like you just picked out words in my post and decided to yell at me for only specific points and take them out of context. If you ban them from all money related tournaments that's a pretty huge thing in my opinion. You don't see this level of competition on tournaments with no monetary gain. Yes, they should also be banned from TL/GG.net for a determined amount of time. But, for the love of god people need to stop twisting my words and turning me into, as you call it, a hypocrite. I have basically agreed with anything the admins have decided to do.
The point is. Yes, they need to be punished. Yes, I think players like scan and mercury are less known so therefore people don't care as much. Just like, who is going to care about some no name NBA player when you have a Kobe, but they need to be punished all the same. No, I don't think they need to be lifetime banned from everything BW related, but still their punishment has to be severe. Don't twist my words. The punishment has to fit the crime and that's beyond me to decide what is appropriate.
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On December 21 2009 02:56 Gumbo wrote:Show nested quote +On December 21 2009 02:52 Biff The Understudy wrote:On December 21 2009 02:48 Gumbo wrote:On December 21 2009 02:15 Biff The Understudy wrote:On December 21 2009 02:06 iG.ClouD wrote:On December 21 2009 01:53 Biff The Understudy wrote:On December 21 2009 01:38 Liquid`NonY wrote:On December 20 2009 20:16 Piste wrote:On December 18 2009 11:55 ms291052 wrote:
F91's case, in particular, was special because he didn't try to cover his abuse, and immediately apologized and withdrew from the tournament. I say ban the other bastards, but F91's punishment needs to be less severe. He's an honest guy, and we all want to see him do well. ehh f91's case is not different at all. the fact that you are his fanboy does not make his abusing any more acceptable. What ms291052 said was inaccurate anyway as has been pointed out by someone else already (forgot who). When ash asked F91 about the suspicious games, F91 said they were legit. It wasn't until evidence was brought against him, and it was clear that he was in trouble no matter what he said, that he confessed. When ash made a new thread it certainly didn't read that way. But if you were on TL.net and reading the ladder thread as these games were happening, then it was clear that F91 was dishonest with words as well as actions. Even if he confessed immediately, he's still not an honest guy. Abuse/cheating = dishonesty. So elegant Nony. Last time you met F91, he spanked you, and you behaved at the very limit of the complete bad manner. Afterward, instead of the sportmanship everybody expected, you complained about the lag, and that's all people could get from you. Now, you have your chance to have your little revenge so you are in every thread in TL related to abusing to put more shit on his head that he did himself. I was supporting you last TSL. I remember this sentence from Mondragon in TL attack: "I don't like his attitude when he loses. I think it's... unapropriate." You lost a fan. And that has nothing to do with the question wether if F91 had better reason than other to cheat. The fact Nony does it for his personal little revenge on something happened months ago is your speculation. F91 cheated on purpose and lied about it like the vast majority of cheaters, and Nony is pointing this out. It's the truth regardless the reason he is saying it for. If we go for speculations then shall I think you are getting angry just because you like F91 to the point of trying to shift the attention from his very recent abuse on TSL2 to some very old stuff no one cares about anymore? I really don't give a damn about F91, trust me. I don't give a damn about any abuser. They are out of the tourney, that's fine. When someone kicked your ass last time you met him in front of all TL, and you left, you dodged his manager, you barely gg, and you say you lost because of lag, you avoid going into a crusade when he is in the shit for having been stupid. Because that's fucking inelegant. OH NOES, someone has been BM in the past! His opinion is completely irrelevant then! Welcome to the real world buddy. His opinion is perfecty relevant, and he may absolutely be right. I won't trry to explain you the whole concept of elegance if you don't understand. I just feel that what happened between F91 and Nony is not not worth being brought back, unless like Nony kept bashing on F91 over and over again.
Which is _exactly_ what he has been doing, in this thread and others.
It is very difficult to interpret in any way other than nony trying to get back at F91 for raping him in the past.
But desipte his seemingly fairly dishonest motives I have to agree with him though, F91 deserves the same treatment as everyone else, preferably lifetime bans from everything.
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8748 Posts
On December 21 2009 02:58 Biff The Understudy wrote:Show nested quote +On December 21 2009 02:56 Gumbo wrote:On December 21 2009 02:52 Biff The Understudy wrote:On December 21 2009 02:48 Gumbo wrote:On December 21 2009 02:15 Biff The Understudy wrote:On December 21 2009 02:06 iG.ClouD wrote:On December 21 2009 01:53 Biff The Understudy wrote:On December 21 2009 01:38 Liquid`NonY wrote:On December 20 2009 20:16 Piste wrote:On December 18 2009 11:55 ms291052 wrote:
F91's case, in particular, was special because he didn't try to cover his abuse, and immediately apologized and withdrew from the tournament. I say ban the other bastards, but F91's punishment needs to be less severe. He's an honest guy, and we all want to see him do well. ehh f91's case is not different at all. the fact that you are his fanboy does not make his abusing any more acceptable. What ms291052 said was inaccurate anyway as has been pointed out by someone else already (forgot who). When ash asked F91 about the suspicious games, F91 said they were legit. It wasn't until evidence was brought against him, and it was clear that he was in trouble no matter what he said, that he confessed. When ash made a new thread it certainly didn't read that way. But if you were on TL.net and reading the ladder thread as these games were happening, then it was clear that F91 was dishonest with words as well as actions. Even if he confessed immediately, he's still not an honest guy. Abuse/cheating = dishonesty. So elegant Nony. Last time you met F91, he spanked you, and you behaved at the very limit of the complete bad manner. Afterward, instead of the sportmanship everybody expected, you complained about the lag, and that's all people could get from you. Now, you have your chance to have your little revenge so you are in every thread in TL related to abusing to put more shit on his head that he did himself. I was supporting you last TSL. I remember this sentence from Mondragon in TL attack: "I don't like his attitude when he loses. I think it's... unapropriate." You lost a fan. And that has nothing to do with the question wether if F91 had better reason than other to cheat. The fact Nony does it for his personal little revenge on something happened months ago is your speculation. F91 cheated on purpose and lied about it like the vast majority of cheaters, and Nony is pointing this out. It's the truth regardless the reason he is saying it for. If we go for speculations then shall I think you are getting angry just because you like F91 to the point of trying to shift the attention from his very recent abuse on TSL2 to some very old stuff no one cares about anymore? I really don't give a damn about F91, trust me. I don't give a damn about any abuser. They are out of the tourney, that's fine. When someone kicked your ass last time you met him in front of all TL, and you left, you dodged his manager, you barely gg, and you say you lost because of lag, you avoid going into a crusade when he is in the shit for having been stupid. Because that's fucking inelegant. OH NOES, someone has been BM in the past! His opinion is completely irrelevant then! Welcome to the real world buddy. His opinion is perfecty relevant, and he may absolutely be right. I won't trry to explain you the whole concept of elegance if you don't understand. I just feel that what happened between F91 and Nony is not not worth being brought back, unless like Nony kept bashing on F91 over and over again. That's pretty much what he has been doing this week.
I don't think bashing is the right word. I just remind people what they did and what it means. And I wouldn't even bother saying it if there weren't so many people taking ridiculous positions like these abusers are honest people that deserve instant forgiveness. If everyone pretty much posted something like "damn I thought these were good people but now I have no respect for them" then, as a sort of public figure / involved party, I would do the respectful thing and stay out of it. But since it hasn't been like that, I've been as respectful as possible while stating facts and giving my opinion on how the community ought to regard these abusers. Anyway I'm going afk now for ~2 weeks so I expect this is the last post I'll make on this issue so the cheaters are now free from my vicious attacks on their characters 
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On December 21 2009 03:09 KlaCkoN wrote:
Which is _exactly_ what he has been doing, in this thread and others.
It is very difficult to interpret in any way other than nony trying to get back at F91 for raping him in the past.
But desipte his seemingly fairly dishonest motives I have to agree with him though, F91 deserves the same treatment as everyone else, preferably lifetime bans from everything.
OK this is getting ridiculous. Could Nony have recused himself in this particular matter to avoid a potential conflict of interest? Perhaps. This however is just reactionary and unnecessary. Nony is an administrator of the organization running the event, for him to get involved with the punishment of blatant abusers, regardless of his past history with select individuals, is perfectly acceptable. You have no evidence or basis to argue either way about whether or not this is revenge so please, just drop the topic. This is asinine.
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Man, it's so exciting that this even happened. It sparks so many different view points from the community and all sorts of other debates with heated arguments. I love following the ladder itself, but hot damn this might be just as exciting so far;)
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EPT
