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domane
Canada1606 Posts
On November 16 2009 04:29 Hot_Bid wrote: My bad. I should have said "one of my posts".None of your posts have been deleted. I suppose I could have pressed a wrong button after I was done typing. How are the administrators going to know, if a TSL participant living outside of Korea, wasn't raised in Korea? | ||
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Holgerius
Sweden16951 Posts
On November 16 2009 10:36 domane wrote: My bad. I should have said "one of my posts". I suppose I could have pressed a wrong button after I was done typing. How are the administrators going to know, if a TSL participant living outside of Korea, wasn't raised in Korea? They can't, which is why Nongmin would've been allowed to play if he had been in USA. | ||
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XeliN
United Kingdom1755 Posts
Location seems to be the deciding factor in deciding whether or not he should be allowed to play, and it seems on the surface a fairly arbitrary one. + Show Spoiler + Edit: made an assumption, after reading more of the thread seems there are alot of people who agree with the descision so removed "presence would be widely welcomed by almost everyone" | ||
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meeple
Canada10211 Posts
On November 16 2009 11:16 XeliN wrote: This seems a strange descision as there seems no doubt that Nongmins presence would make the tournament more exciting. Location seems to be the deciding factor in deciding whether or not he should be allowed to play, and it seems on the surface a fairly arbitrary one. + Show Spoiler + Edit: made an assumption, after reading more of the thread seems there are alot of people who agree with the descision so removed "presence would be widely welcomed by almost everyone" Location in this case is important because of the atmosphere difference between Korea and other parts of the world. | ||
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Chrispy
Canada5878 Posts
On November 16 2009 07:36 Kennigit wrote: Watch this i can do the same thing. Idra, the guy who has dedicated years to the foreign scene, and given exciting matches and thousands of replays to the community. On top of his dry humor which has given us hundreds of pages of threads to talk about, he was a great guest on TL Attack and gave games to community members before going to korea. Or a guy who lived in korea most of his life and joined TL 3 months ago. Pretty cool technique amirite? Ah, what a perfect summation of what this argument boils down to... The majority of the TL posters feel Nong should be allowed to participate in this tournament. The majority (Hell, could be unanimous) of the people in charge feel that Nong should not be allowed to participate in this tournament. Rules are rules, though, and if an exception is made for Nong then why not for others? In the end of the day, that's what it comes down to. This ain't no damn democracy, boy! The Ten Commandments sayeth so. | ||
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Kennigit
Canada19447 Posts
On November 16 2009 12:03 Chrispy wrote: Ah, what a perfect summation of what this argument boils down to... The majority of the TL posters feel Nong should be allowed to participate in this tournament. The majority (Hell, could be unanimous) of the people in charge feel that Nong should not be allowed to participate in this tournament. Rules are rules, though, and if an exception is made for Nong then why not for others? In the end of the day, that's what it comes down to. This ain't no damn democracy, boy! The Ten Commandments sayeth so. That isn't what the argument boils down to - i was being facetious to illustrate how stupid this argument about "idra is bad manner, nongmin is nice boy" is. If by majority you mean the same 30-40 vocalists out of 40,000 users then sure. People who don't give a shit obviously don't post, and people who support the decision and know that it wont change don't post either..... But yes you are correct, the decision is final. | ||
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sRapers_ValkS
United States644 Posts
it makes sense... its already been stated it was an unfortunate decision and that they encourage him to play in any upcoming tournaments... i see no reason for there to be any further argument...? | ||
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jalstar
United States8198 Posts
On November 16 2009 12:03 Chrispy wrote: Ah, what a perfect summation of what this argument boils down to... The majority of the TL posters feel Nong should be allowed to participate in this tournament. The majority (Hell, could be unanimous) of the people in charge feel that Nong should not be allowed to participate in this tournament. Rules are rules, though, and if an exception is made for Nong then why not for others? In the end of the day, that's what it comes down to. This ain't no damn democracy, boy! The Ten Commandments sayeth so. Exceptions are being made for others. | ||
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Chrispy
Canada5878 Posts
On November 16 2009 12:20 Kennigit wrote: That isn't what the argument boils down to - i was being facetious to illustrate how stupid this argument about "idra is bad manner, nongmin is nice boy" is. If by majority you mean the same 30-40 vocalists out of 40,000 users then sure. People who don't give a shit obviously don't post, and people who support the decision and know that it wont change don't post either..... But yes you are correct, the decision is final. I don't see why you should take into consideration the people that don't give a shit, as they obviously don't give a shit as to what happens therefore their opinion shouldn't count because they don't have an opinion. @Jalstar: The exceptions are white, and thus are allowed as we have inferior Brood war genes. It's kind of like the special olympics - you can't have Usain Bolt participate in the special Olympics as he isn't retarded and would obviously win everything. Nongmin, being Korean, has the genetic advantage of er, being Korean. | ||
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himurakenshin
Canada1845 Posts
 they play on such a low skill level and are so afraid to let anyone who can play well in their tournament. everybody should stop caring about playing with other bad players. if you guys love broodwar and starcraft so much, then actually put in some time and become some of the best, instead of being bad and wanting to play with bad players. | ||
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Liquid`Nazgul
22427 Posts
Let me make something very clear. Viewers would not tune in to see 14 Korean top amateurs battle it out. Germans don't tune in if Mondragon doesn't play. Polish don't tune in if Draco is out. Chinese don't watch unless Chinese are playing. Sponsors would not be found and TSL would be gone. That is what you are asking for. A tournament for the foreign scene for both viewers and players is what we are trying to do here. To argue against this is to argue TSL should not exist. If that is your view of the situation I would kindly request you to not post here at all because there are thousands of others who do want to enjoy this. | ||
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Substandard
Italy270 Posts
I can understand people wanting to see Nongming play based on the argument that theoretically he is part of the foreign community more so than the korean one(I don't have enough information on Nongmin to have an opinion on that). But the other Korean amateurs? Can't you see that allowing them would completley defy the purpose of supporting and developing the foreigner scene. Foreigners right now can't compete with the Korean amateurs because of the social surroundings and support for professional gaming. It has nothing to do with genes or anything. For example look at the USA in soccer, they sucked at it despite being such a huge nation being among the top in every sport the general populace has an interest in. Smaller media attention and/or public interest obviously leads to a smaller player base, a lower skill level and slower development of any kind of professional scene. | ||
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Foucault
Sweden2826 Posts
On November 16 2009 10:36 domane wrote: How are the administrators going to know, if a TSL participant living outside of Korea, wasn't raised in Korea? Yeah they won't because that rule is way too vague. Anyways, I'm done arguing. TSL should be nice | ||
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Holgerius
Sweden16951 Posts
Double post... | ||
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AwarE--
United States70 Posts
I've read the entire thread and the responses are overwhelmingly in support of nongmin playing or people saying I'd like to see him play, but I can see why you guys are making the decision and I'll go along with it. There is no vocal opposition. Saying that the vocal opposition to the nongmin supporters are just content to sit back because they don't see a point in posting is hilarious. When has any vocal radical group ever said, "Oh, wow. That guy already made my point for me! I no longer need to post my opinion because it's already been covered!" ... hilarious. If there was a strong group of people who really hated the idea of korean amateurs playing in their tournament they would say so. | ||
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Substandard
Italy270 Posts
On November 16 2009 22:45 AwarE-- wrote: If there was a strong group of people who really hated the idea of korean amateurs playing in their tournament they would say so. That's because people think this thread is about Nongming. If this thread was about allowing Korean amateurs as a whole to take part in the TSL i have no doubt there would be a strong vocal opposition. I for once would feel strongly against that. One of the goals of this starleague is after all to support foreign E-sports. I fail to see the point of opening this to korean amateurs making it a second rate starleague since if it's just about the quality of the games, there are already the OSL and the MSL with the best players duking it out. The special thing about the TSL is after all that it's for players of countries without a professional scene. | ||
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AwarE--
United States70 Posts
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Substandard
Italy270 Posts
My post was directed only at people talking about korean amateurs as a whole. | ||
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alexpnd
Canada1857 Posts
On November 16 2009 22:56 Substandard wrote: That's because people think this thread is about Nongming. If this thread was about allowing Korean amateurs as a whole to take part in the TSL i have no doubt there would be a strong vocal opposition. I for once would feel strongly against that. One of the goals of this starleague is after all to support foreign E-sports. I fail to see the point of opening this to korean amateurs making it a second rate starleague since if it's just about the quality of the games, there are already the OSL and the MSL with the best players duking it out. The special thing about the TSL is after all that it's for players of countries without a professional scene. You haven't read the thread. nongmin moved here for highschool, he moved back to korea but i believe its only a short visit. Anyways, the exception wasn't to be for amateur koreans but for nongmin. Just like its not for professional gamers but for idra. | ||
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Substandard
Italy270 Posts
On November 16 2009 23:51 alexpnd wrote: You haven't read the thread. nongmin moved here for highschool, he moved back to korea but i believe its only a short visit. Anyways, the exception wasn't to be for amateur koreans but for nongmin. Just like its not for professional gamers but for idra. I did read the thread. As stated above I'm not talking about Nongmin. I can see people making the point that he should be considered a member of the foreign community. I was talking to people talking about the korean amateurs as a whole. | ||
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