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This thread is for discussing recent bans. Don't discuss other topics here. Take it to website feedback if you disagree with a ban or want to raise an issue. Keep it civil.NOTE: For those of you who want to find the actual ABL thread where the bans are posted. Please look in here: https://tl.net/forum/closed-threads/ |
Drunkasarous was just temp banned for 2 days by Chill.
That account was created on 2011-02-16 02:35:40 and had 64 posts.
Reason:
I dont understand why people think iNcontroL is all that good. Hes an alright player, but I honestly think he doesnt contribute much on SotG. Hell, he charges 100$ an hour and cant even get a webcam (warn / ban me if you wish, but im willing to bet a lot of his money goes into his fruity little "Miss Oregon")
I am not a fan of iNcontroL, and I state it publicly (being as respectful as I can as I love TL and I dont want to be banned), but I hope NASL does well in general.
Okay... Where to start? Knowing nothing about Incontrol, you make a wild assumption that he spends all his money on his girlfriend, belittling their relationship by calling her "fruity little Miss Oregon". Okay, so that's pretty offensive and stupid, but then you decide to insult the moderators by implying that they don't know how to warn/ban users and need your approval to do it. Then you wrap this up with another "I don't want to be banned."
Honestly, if you just wrote your comment and stopped worrying about being banned, you would be fine. And here's a shocking thought: If a comment has your worried about being banned, why would you post it? You know it's a shitty comment by your own admission (twice) in the same comment. You can't write "Look, I know this is a shitty comment" and then get some magical self-admitting free pass to shit all over the page.
I know this is an obvious comment but, this is awesome.
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Canada11607 Posts
On April 04 2011 14:13 aidnai wrote:
, but it went too far plus there was so much total BS--people arguing if naniwa lost a game or not, newbs trying to convince everyone that CC first is 'cheese' (lol) >.<
That one totally threw me for a loop. I couldn't believe people were actually calling a fast expand (aka a completely macro oriented build) cheese. You know a word is losing its meaning when...
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On April 05 2011 04:59 Falling wrote:Show nested quote +On April 04 2011 14:13 aidnai wrote:
, but it went too far plus there was so much total BS--people arguing if naniwa lost a game or not, newbs trying to convince everyone that CC first is 'cheese' (lol) >.< That one totally threw me for a loop. I couldn't believe people were actually calling a fast expand (aka a completely macro oriented build) cheese. You know a word is losing its meaning when...
There actually is such a thing as "economic cheese". Fast expanding is risky, and if scouted, lets the opponent know that you're presently vulnerable to attack. This is the definition of a "cheese": a risky strategy that bestows a significant, potentially game-winning advantage upon the user if executed successfully, but becomes much less effective if the opponent is made aware of it. Most people associate cheese with all-in, which isn't entirely accurate, since an all-in is not necessarily cheese. In the case of a fast expand, your significant advantage is not based on attacking units, but on resources.
Yeah, economic cheese is possible, but people don't really think about cheese that way, because the common perspective of cheese is that of an early-game attack aided by surprise or unconventionality. But when you think about it, if your opponent somehow doesn't see your FE, you're in a huge economic lead.
Just something to chew on for a bit.
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On April 05 2011 05:17 Aeres wrote:Show nested quote +On April 05 2011 04:59 Falling wrote:On April 04 2011 14:13 aidnai wrote:
, but it went too far plus there was so much total BS--people arguing if naniwa lost a game or not, newbs trying to convince everyone that CC first is 'cheese' (lol) >.< That one totally threw me for a loop. I couldn't believe people were actually calling a fast expand (aka a completely macro oriented build) cheese. You know a word is losing its meaning when... There actually is such a thing as "economic cheese".
No there isn't.
This is the definition of a "cheese": a risky strategy that bestows a significant, potentially game-winning advantage upon the user if executed successfully, but becomes much less effective if the opponent is made aware of it.
No it isn't.
Cheese is something that, if defended, gives the defender a significant advantage. That's not true of CC-first. What you're describing is a risk, not cheese. They are different. CC-first is risky, not cheesy.
If you want to include CC-first in cheese (playing risky to get an economic advantage), you also have to include not sacrificing an overlord, skipping your first observer, and a billion other ways people play intelligently risky to get an advantage.
I am here to say economic cheese doesn't exist and it's a stupid, stilly term.
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Hyrule19269 Posts
On April 05 2011 05:33 ModerateTemperature wrote:Show nested quote +On April 05 2011 05:17 Aeres wrote:On April 05 2011 04:59 Falling wrote:On April 04 2011 14:13 aidnai wrote:
, but it went too far plus there was so much total BS--people arguing if naniwa lost a game or not, newbs trying to convince everyone that CC first is 'cheese' (lol) >.< That one totally threw me for a loop. I couldn't believe people were actually calling a fast expand (aka a completely macro oriented build) cheese. You know a word is losing its meaning when... There actually is such a thing as "economic cheese". No there isn't. Show nested quote +This is the definition of a "cheese": a risky strategy that bestows a significant, potentially game-winning advantage upon the user if executed successfully, but becomes much less effective if the opponent is made aware of it. No it isn't.Cheese is something that, if defended, gives the defender a significant advantage. That's not true of CC-first. What you're describing is a risk, not cheese. They are different. CC-first is risky, not cheesy. If you want to include CC-first in cheese (playing risky to get an economic advantage), you also have to include not sacrificing an overlord, skipping your first observer, and a billion other ways people play intelligently risky to get an advantage. I am here to say economic cheese doesn't exist and it's a stupid, stilly term.
Actually there is economic cheese. Blind double expand before getting an army is ecocheese.
But it doesn't happen because it's suicide.
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Liquipedia:
Cheese most often refers to an unexpected strategy that relies on large parts on secrecy and/or psychological impact on the opponent.
...
A main characteristic of cheese is whatever the form, if scouted in time and answered correctly, it will almost surely fail and put the executed player at a severe disadvantage.
It just depends on how you define the word, I've personally always considered 14cc/14nex etc. "economical cheeses" but can definitely see why people might not like the use of the word cheese here.
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On April 05 2011 05:36 tofucake wrote:Show nested quote +On April 05 2011 05:33 ModerateTemperature wrote:On April 05 2011 05:17 Aeres wrote:On April 05 2011 04:59 Falling wrote:On April 04 2011 14:13 aidnai wrote:
, but it went too far plus there was so much total BS--people arguing if naniwa lost a game or not, newbs trying to convince everyone that CC first is 'cheese' (lol) >.< That one totally threw me for a loop. I couldn't believe people were actually calling a fast expand (aka a completely macro oriented build) cheese. You know a word is losing its meaning when... There actually is such a thing as "economic cheese". No there isn't. This is the definition of a "cheese": a risky strategy that bestows a significant, potentially game-winning advantage upon the user if executed successfully, but becomes much less effective if the opponent is made aware of it. No it isn't.Cheese is something that, if defended, gives the defender a significant advantage. That's not true of CC-first. What you're describing is a risk, not cheese. They are different. CC-first is risky, not cheesy. If you want to include CC-first in cheese (playing risky to get an economic advantage), you also have to include not sacrificing an overlord, skipping your first observer, and a billion other ways people play intelligently risky to get an advantage. I am here to say economic cheese doesn't exist and it's a stupid, stilly term. Actually there is economic cheese. Blind double expand before getting an army is ecocheese. But it doesn't happen because it's suicide.
You're confusing risk with cheese. Cheese is something that wins or significantly disables your opponent if successful. Bunker rush does that. Cannon rush does that. Proxy 2 gate does that. Double blind expo just gives you an advantage if successful. That's risk, not cheese.
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On April 05 2011 05:37 Puosu wrote:Show nested quote +
Liquipedia:
Cheese most often refers to an unexpected strategy that relies on large parts on secrecy and/or psychological impact on the opponent.
...
A main characteristic of cheese is whatever the form, if scouted in time and answered correctly, it will almost surely fail and put the executed player at a severe disadvantage.
It just depends on how you define the word, I've personally always considered 14cc/14nex etc. "economical cheeses" but can definitely see why people might not like the use of the word cheese here.
Is not scouting cheese? Is going 2 base Colossus without scouting cheese? This is a slippery slope that is heading towards any risk suddenly becoming cheese.
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You know what, I'm just not gonna use the word "cheese" anymore. Its definition and applications are too ambiguous and fluid for my liking.
Sorry for derailing the thread. Now can we talk about bans again?
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Hyrule19269 Posts
On April 05 2011 05:39 ModerateTemperature wrote:Show nested quote +On April 05 2011 05:36 tofucake wrote:On April 05 2011 05:33 ModerateTemperature wrote:On April 05 2011 05:17 Aeres wrote:On April 05 2011 04:59 Falling wrote:On April 04 2011 14:13 aidnai wrote:
, but it went too far plus there was so much total BS--people arguing if naniwa lost a game or not, newbs trying to convince everyone that CC first is 'cheese' (lol) >.< That one totally threw me for a loop. I couldn't believe people were actually calling a fast expand (aka a completely macro oriented build) cheese. You know a word is losing its meaning when... There actually is such a thing as "economic cheese". No there isn't. This is the definition of a "cheese": a risky strategy that bestows a significant, potentially game-winning advantage upon the user if executed successfully, but becomes much less effective if the opponent is made aware of it. No it isn't.Cheese is something that, if defended, gives the defender a significant advantage. That's not true of CC-first. What you're describing is a risk, not cheese. They are different. CC-first is risky, not cheesy. If you want to include CC-first in cheese (playing risky to get an economic advantage), you also have to include not sacrificing an overlord, skipping your first observer, and a billion other ways people play intelligently risky to get an advantage. I am here to say economic cheese doesn't exist and it's a stupid, stilly term. Actually there is economic cheese. Blind double expand before getting an army is ecocheese. But it doesn't happen because it's suicide. You're confusing risk with cheese. Cheese is something that wins or significantly disables your opponent if successful. Bunker rush does that. Cannon rush does that. Proxy 2 gate does that. Double blind expo just gives you an advantage if successful. That's risk, not cheese.
No. Risk is cutting army to get more workers for a better economy. Cheese is cutting all army to double expand 4 minutes into the game to get an amazing economy. If it's scouted, you die. If it's not, you win.
Cheese.
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On April 05 2011 05:39 ModerateTemperature wrote:Show nested quote +On April 05 2011 05:36 tofucake wrote:On April 05 2011 05:33 ModerateTemperature wrote:On April 05 2011 05:17 Aeres wrote:On April 05 2011 04:59 Falling wrote:On April 04 2011 14:13 aidnai wrote:
, but it went too far plus there was so much total BS--people arguing if naniwa lost a game or not, newbs trying to convince everyone that CC first is 'cheese' (lol) >.< That one totally threw me for a loop. I couldn't believe people were actually calling a fast expand (aka a completely macro oriented build) cheese. You know a word is losing its meaning when... There actually is such a thing as "economic cheese". No there isn't. This is the definition of a "cheese": a risky strategy that bestows a significant, potentially game-winning advantage upon the user if executed successfully, but becomes much less effective if the opponent is made aware of it. No it isn't.Cheese is something that, if defended, gives the defender a significant advantage. That's not true of CC-first. What you're describing is a risk, not cheese. They are different. CC-first is risky, not cheesy. If you want to include CC-first in cheese (playing risky to get an economic advantage), you also have to include not sacrificing an overlord, skipping your first observer, and a billion other ways people play intelligently risky to get an advantage. ' I am here to say economic cheese doesn't exist and it's a stupid, stilly term. Actually there is economic cheese. Blind double expand before getting an army is ecocheese. But it doesn't happen because it's suicide. You're confusing risk with cheese. Cheese is something that wins if successful. Double blind expo gives you an advantage if successful. That's risk, not cheese.
cheese is a build that depends on not being scouted. Thats the reason why its frowned upon; because it relies on luck, not skill. for example, 1gate expo pvp is a cheese build, because, while it stands to gain a huge advantage, it autoloses to a 4gate. if the toss scouts the expand, then he will respond accordingly and lose. If he doesnt, and does something silly like 3 stalker robo, then he will be miles behind, and most likely lose.
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This is the ban thread? Sickest derailment. Didn't even notice, I am terrible.
Really I doubt there'll ever be a concensus on what exactly cheese means. If you guys want to keep discussing it I suggest you move it to the SC2 general discussion thread. That thread needs more action anyways.
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On April 05 2011 05:44 tofucake wrote:Show nested quote +On April 05 2011 05:39 ModerateTemperature wrote:On April 05 2011 05:36 tofucake wrote:On April 05 2011 05:33 ModerateTemperature wrote:On April 05 2011 05:17 Aeres wrote:On April 05 2011 04:59 Falling wrote:On April 04 2011 14:13 aidnai wrote:
, but it went too far plus there was so much total BS--people arguing if naniwa lost a game or not, newbs trying to convince everyone that CC first is 'cheese' (lol) >.< That one totally threw me for a loop. I couldn't believe people were actually calling a fast expand (aka a completely macro oriented build) cheese. You know a word is losing its meaning when... There actually is such a thing as "economic cheese". No there isn't. This is the definition of a "cheese": a risky strategy that bestows a significant, potentially game-winning advantage upon the user if executed successfully, but becomes much less effective if the opponent is made aware of it. No it isn't.Cheese is something that, if defended, gives the defender a significant advantage. That's not true of CC-first. What you're describing is a risk, not cheese. They are different. CC-first is risky, not cheesy. If you want to include CC-first in cheese (playing risky to get an economic advantage), you also have to include not sacrificing an overlord, skipping your first observer, and a billion other ways people play intelligently risky to get an advantage. I am here to say economic cheese doesn't exist and it's a stupid, stilly term. Actually there is economic cheese. Blind double expand before getting an army is ecocheese. But it doesn't happen because it's suicide. You're confusing risk with cheese. Cheese is something that wins or significantly disables your opponent if successful. Bunker rush does that. Cannon rush does that. Proxy 2 gate does that. Double blind expo just gives you an advantage if successful. That's risk, not cheese. No. Risk is cutting army to get more workers for a better economy. Cheese is cutting all army to double expand 4 minutes into the game to get an amazing economy. If it's scouted, you die. If it's not, you win. Cheese.
Please tell me what percentage of army cutting the line between risk and cheese exists at.
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Hyrule19269 Posts
On April 05 2011 05:48 Puosu wrote:
This is the ban thread? Sickest derailment. Didn't even notice, I am terrible.
Really I doubt there'll ever be a concensus on what exactly cheese means but if you guys want to keep discussing it I suggest you move it to private means or the SC2 general discussion thread.
I motion that cheese is whatever the guy with the ban button says it is.
On April 05 2011 05:48 ModerateTemperature wrote:
Please tell me what percentage of army cutting the line between risk and cheese exists at.
Cutting say, 3 Marines early to get an early expansion is risky.
Getting a supply depot and then 2 Command Centers is cheese.
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On April 05 2011 05:45 gods_basement wrote:Show nested quote +On April 05 2011 05:39 ModerateTemperature wrote:On April 05 2011 05:36 tofucake wrote:On April 05 2011 05:33 ModerateTemperature wrote:On April 05 2011 05:17 Aeres wrote:On April 05 2011 04:59 Falling wrote:On April 04 2011 14:13 aidnai wrote:
, but it went too far plus there was so much total BS--people arguing if naniwa lost a game or not, newbs trying to convince everyone that CC first is 'cheese' (lol) >.< That one totally threw me for a loop. I couldn't believe people were actually calling a fast expand (aka a completely macro oriented build) cheese. You know a word is losing its meaning when... There actually is such a thing as "economic cheese". No there isn't. This is the definition of a "cheese": a risky strategy that bestows a significant, potentially game-winning advantage upon the user if executed successfully, but becomes much less effective if the opponent is made aware of it. No it isn't.Cheese is something that, if defended, gives the defender a significant advantage. That's not true of CC-first. What you're describing is a risk, not cheese. They are different. CC-first is risky, not cheesy. If you want to include CC-first in cheese (playing risky to get an economic advantage), you also have to include not sacrificing an overlord, skipping your first observer, and a billion other ways people play intelligently risky to get an advantage. ' I am here to say economic cheese doesn't exist and it's a stupid, stilly term. Actually there is economic cheese. Blind double expand before getting an army is ecocheese. But it doesn't happen because it's suicide. You're confusing risk with cheese. Cheese is something that wins if successful. Double blind expo gives you an advantage if successful. That's risk, not cheese. cheese is a build that depends on not being scouted. Thats the reason why its frowned upon; because it relies on luck, not skill. for example, 1gate expo pvp is a cheese build, because, while it stands to gain a huge advantage, it autoloses to a 4gate. if the toss scouts the expand, then he will respond accordingly and lose. If he doesnt, and does something silly like 3 stalker robo, then he will be miles behind, and most likely lose.
Cheese is anything that, if scouted and countered perfectly, will lose? That's the majority of builds.
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United States11637 Posts
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Hyrule19269 Posts
Has anyone gotten banned from posting in The Automated Ban List before?
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On April 05 2011 05:54 tofucake wrote:
Has anyone gotten banned from posting in The Automated Ban List before?
A few people, yeah.
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EPT
