EPTOn November 06 2015 18:21 ahswtini wrote:
just standard hatred of russians in dota, nothing new
just standard hatred of russians in dota, nothing new
Yep. It's just your standard bigotry.
The Automated Ban List - Page 2618
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Deathstar
9150 Posts
Yep. It's just your standard bigotry. | ||
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Wintex
Norway16835 Posts
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Ansibled
United Kingdom9872 Posts
On November 07 2015 09:35 Wintex wrote: hehehe i killed duckk good job  | ||
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Karis Vas Ryaar
United States4396 Posts
dismiss was just temp banned for 30 days by TheEmulator. That account was created on 2009-03-03 01:43:39 and had 551 posts. Reason: Failure to improve posting standards has resulted in a lengthy ban In all seriousness, I'm sure you understand that calling everyone "niggers" is completely unacceptable. If you can't refrain from doing stuff like this when you come back we will most likely ban you permanently. also this one in the wcs finals thread On November 07 2015 09:19 graNite wrote: this match is so fixed... no 3rd, constantly letting lings in. this is not the real inno User was warned for this post User was temp banned for this post. | ||
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Simberto
Germany11321 Posts
On November 07 2015 12:04 Karis Vas Ryaar wrote: also this one in the wcs finals thread Well, regarding the first one, i tracked it down because i know that guy (And because i want to improve my e-stalking abilities!), and the post in question was this: "yall niggers need some autobahn in your life User was temp banned for this post." And that isn't really that bad of a post, as it is clearly a humorous post in an offtopic thread where people were discussing how fast they are allowed to drive on their highways for some inexplicable reason. I guess some things are a bit more sensible in the US than in Europe. | ||
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GreenHorizons
United States22689 Posts
And that isn't really that bad of a post Just wow...I'm going to presume that's sarcasm... | ||
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OtherWorld
France17333 Posts
On November 07 2015 19:46 GreenHorizons wrote: Just wow...I'm going to presume that's sarcasm... It's probably not. It's cultural difference, as using "nigger" (or its equivalent in a European language) jokingly causes little problem in Europe as long as you're not a media or public personality. | ||
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Skynx
Turkey7150 Posts
On November 07 2015 21:08 OtherWorld wrote: It's probably not. It's cultural difference, as using "nigger" (or its equivalent in a European language) jokingly causes little problem in Europe as long as you're not a media or public personality. It can have very different meanings indeed | ||
Plexa
Aotearoa39261 Posts
On November 07 2015 09:00 dismiss wrote: yall niggers need some autobahn in your life User was temp banned for this post. Would not have been banned back then because it's quite clear that he's not using the word with any malice or contempt. Obviously now things are different. It's probably worth pointing out that the severity of the ban is more because he has a bad post history than the post in question. | ||
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GreenHorizons
United States22689 Posts
On November 07 2015 21:08 OtherWorld wrote: It's probably not. It's cultural difference, as using "nigger" (or its equivalent in a European language) jokingly causes little problem in Europe as long as you're not a media or public personality. Really? Black Europeans don't find it offensive? I was under the impression some countries in Europe even made the use of the word illegal. It also appears the thought that it is remotely acceptable is based mostly in the same logic as it was in the 60's in America. | ||
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Plexa
Aotearoa39261 Posts
On November 07 2015 21:38 GreenHorizons wrote: Really? Black Europeans don't find it offensive? Out here in NZ there's virtually no usage of the work outside of a friendly context because as far as I can remember it's never been commonplace to describe Maori/Pacific Islanders as such (who are the majority of our coloured people here). But of course, other words have been used in place of it. As such it never picked up the deeply hurtful/racist connotations that the word has in the states. | ||
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GreenHorizons
United States22689 Posts
On November 07 2015 21:42 Plexa wrote: Out here in NZ there's virtually no usage of the work outside of a friendly context because as far as I can remember it's never been commonplace to describe Maori/Pacific Islanders as such (who are the majority of our coloured people here). But of course, other words have been used in place of it. As such it never picked up the deeply hurtful/racist connotations that the word has in the states. Hasn't picked up any of the hurtful and racist connotations for whom? For not black people? Because that's not that different than the racist parts of the US. | ||
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OtherWorld
France17333 Posts
On November 07 2015 21:38 GreenHorizons wrote: Really? Black Europeans don't find it offensive? I was under the impression some countries in Europe even made the use of the word illegal. It also appears the thought that it is remotely acceptable is based mostly in the same logic as it was in the 60's in America. I can only speak for France, and only for the French people I know, but I can say that when it is used in a not explicitely offensive way (I mean if you're starting to have an argument with a Black French and say "sale nègre" he'll obviously find it offensive) they don't find it offensive (also depends on whom is saying it - ofc it doesn't have the same meaning if it's coming from a far-right militant or from someone who's defending tolerance and is interested in different cultures). Or, to be more precise, they don't explicitly express whether they find it offensive or not. Now, I'm not saying that because they don't seem to find it offensive, it's an OK word to use. But it explains why people being banned solely for using it might shock some European users : because in Europe, the exposure of the people pushing for not using this word at all is somewhere between null and very low. I mean, if you look up all the posts on TL arguing that nigger is an inherently racist word and should not be used, even jokingly, you'll probably find that almost all of them are from American users. | ||
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GreenHorizons
United States22689 Posts
On November 07 2015 22:12 OtherWorld wrote: I can only speak for France, and only for the French people I know, but I can say that when it is used in a not explicitely offensive way (I mean if you're starting to have an argument with a Black French and say "sale nègre" he'll obviously find it offensive) they don't find it offensive (also depends on whom is saying it - ofc it doesn't have the same meaning if it's coming from a far-right militant or from someone who's defending tolerance and is interested in different cultures). Or, to be more precise, they don't explicitly express whether they find it offensive or not. Now, I'm not saying that because they don't seem to find it offensive, it's an OK word to use. But it explains why people being banned solely for using it might shock some European users : because in Europe, the exposure of the people pushing for not using this word at all is somewhere between null and very low. I mean, if you look up all the posts on TL arguing that nigger is an inherently racist word and should not be used, even jokingly, you'll probably find that almost all of them are from American users. What's the "joke" in using it in the first place? I'm inclined to think it's only funny to racist people. I have a hard time imagining anyone jokingly calling their black friends/acquaintances "n**er"? | ||
micronesia
United States24569 Posts
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Plexa
Aotearoa39261 Posts
On November 07 2015 22:01 GreenHorizons wrote: Hasn't picked up any of the hurtful and racist connotations for whom? For not black people? Because that's not that different than the racist parts of the US. Universally. The word doesn't carry the same gravity as it does in the US because we never had slavery and our indigenous people (relatively speaking) got off fairly well. That doesn't mean we don't have historical grievance (oh boy, we do) but none of that it tied up or encapsulated in the usage of the word. Yes we can still use the word to cause offense, but we rarely (if ever) do because it's not a word we've traditionally associated with hate and instead use other words to replace it. For instance, if I wanted to offend a Maori person I'd probably call them hori. But more often our racism takes the form of stereotyping/perceiving Maori as criminals or subtle comments etc rather than explicit hate crime/name calling. It's a cultural thing since we're a more reserved culture so our racism is expressed in more reserved ways  | ||
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GreenHorizons
United States22689 Posts
On November 07 2015 22:20 micronesia wrote: GreenHorizons it's like you aren't listening at all to what anyone is telling you. Try to open your mind a bit. I think it's the reverse. It be like people jokingly calling each other "chinks", "gooks", "wet backs", "sand nigger" etc... | ||
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micronesia
United States24569 Posts
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GreenHorizons
United States22689 Posts
On November 07 2015 22:32 micronesia wrote: GreenHorizons, several different people from several different countries are telling you your assumptions about other parts of the world are not correct, and are trying to explain why. Every time you just refuse to believe them and attempt to counter with questions that seem to show you started with the conclusion that you are correct and need to just move past these confusing, erroneous reports from people in a different part of the world. I'll just drop it (soon), though I'd love to see video of someone jokingly calling a black person "nigger". Surely one of the Europeans opining has a black friend they've joked like that with before? Because if they haven't joked like that with black people than they should just know now if they keep doing it with their not black friends they are just being racist, no cultural excuse. Put another way what does one mean when they jokingly use the word "nigger"? | ||
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OtherWorld
France17333 Posts
On November 07 2015 22:19 GreenHorizons wrote: What's the "joke" in using it in the first place? I'm inclined to think it's only funny to racist people. "Joke" isn't really the appropriate term, "not-serious" would be more precise, since the serious meaning of nigger is indeed related to slavery. Now, you'll ask why people use it in "not-serious" ways. Well, that's a good question, that would deserve in my opinion a loooong aswer, so I'm going to make it short. Where does racism come from? Racism comes from the fear of the Stranger. Originally, taken as a single individual, each human is mistrustful of other humans : they are potentiel threats to his territory, to his security, to his health and physical integrity, because he does not know what they intend to do. But each individual cannot survive if he doesn't live in society, which means that he has to accept to trust other individuals. To survive, he has to trust people who are potential threats to his survival. How do we resolve this paradox? With group attributes. We said that other humans are perceived as a threat to one individual, because this individual does not know what are the intents of the other humans. Thus, if the individual knows how the other humans intend to behave, he can be freed of his instinctive mistrust and begin to trust the others, allowing the establishment of a society. This is where group attributes enter the field : societies will adopt signs of unity, signs that send a signal to all the other members of this same society : "I'm no threat to you." These signs can go from clothes, to behaviors, to language, to cultural institutions (religions...), to physical attributes (skin color being one of them), etc. Thus, when someone does not possess these group attributes, they're considered as Strangers. And because it is always nice to think of ourselves and of our values as the best possible ones, as the only correct ones, the Strangers are inferior. Considering Strangers as inferior people causes no issue until it is translated to acts. Pragmatically, who cares about that isolated racist guy who swears that Black people are animals, but who never saw one and will never see one? He causes no threat. There's an issue when he starts to put his hate into acts, when he starts to burn down Black people because they're Black people. That's the issue of tolerance in our modern societies : we live trying to reach the ideal that anyone can be as he likes, that anyone deserves to be given respect from anyone, that anyone has to trust anyone enough to live in society with the other humans. That means, that anyone has to live with Strangers and to trust Strangers, which is a difficult thing to do for most people. We want tolerance, but tolerance is unnatural, tolerances asks from us to accept that we are not superior to anyone, that we cannot look down on anyone. Thus, when having to trust Strangers, we try to somehow summon the past, when tolerance wasn't a thing. We summon the past in subtle ways : using stereotypes. Using funny nicknames related to one's lack of group attributes. Using words that were before only used in a racist context. We try to inject small doses of racism, without the intent of being racist, but with the intent of reassuring ourselves. This is what the "joke", the "not-serious" use of words like "nigger" is : this is a way to make sure that the Stranger is no threat, because he doesn't react badly to this small, "humorous" dose of racism. This is not meant to hurt the Stranger, it is meant to reaffirm group attributes, in order to create trust and unity, despite the apparent lack of common group attributes. edit : anecdote to illustrate this. I have a (black) friend who's a boxer. At his boxing club, he's the only Black person. Do you know how he is nicknamed by his fellow boxers? "Blanche Neige", the French version of "Snow White". Yet he doesn't feel them to be racist : they're respectful, they fight together, they created respect through sport. Why do they nickname him that way then? It's to overcome their fear of the Stranger. | ||
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