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This thread is for discussing recent bans. Don't discuss other topics here. Take it to website feedback if you disagree with a ban or want to raise an issue. Keep it civil.NOTE: For those of you who want to find the actual ABL thread where the bans are posted. Please look in here: https://tl.net/forum/closed-threads/ |
On November 07 2015 22:45 GreenHorizons wrote:Show nested quote +On November 07 2015 22:32 micronesia wrote:
GreenHorizons, several different people from several different countries are telling you your assumptions about other parts of the world are not correct, and are trying to explain why. Every time you just refuse to believe them and attempt to counter with questions that seem to show you started with the conclusion that you are correct and need to just move past these confusing, erroneous reports from people in a different part of the world. I'll just drop it (soon), though I'd love to see video of someone jokingly calling a black person "nigger". Surely one of the Europeans opining has a black friend they've joked like that with before? Because if they haven't joked like that with black people than they should just know now if they keep doing it with their not black friends they are just being racist, no cultural excuse. Put another way what does one mean when they jokingly use the word "nigger"?
The same word carry different weights in different cultures. For example, most countries have swears related to genitalia or religion. In Sweden (I'm Swedish), religious swears are generally pretty mild, while genitalia are comparably severe. In Italy it is the other way around.
In the same way, "nigger" seems to be especially severe in the US. It's not really ok in other countries either as far as I know, many will frown upon it even used jokingly, but I don't think the word carries as much weight as it does in US. If you haven't been outside US, and don't speak other languages (sorry to play that card), this may be a strange notion for you as you haven't been exposed to these things much.
And for the record, I am quarter Italian, and my Swedish friends happily throw all kinds of racial slurs for Italians at me. 
I think the heart of the difference is that racism against blacks isn't as present in Europe, simply because there are fewer black people there. We got other racism problems in EU, but a comparably small fraction of black people. Similarly, there isn't really a problem in Sweden with racism against Italians, which makes it more ok for my friends to use that kind of jokes, and the slurs for Italians are regarded as pretty mild. While slurs against for example islamists are much more severe and head-turning.
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There is also the whole Hiphop/Rap thing. A lot of europeans grew up in a situation where a) Hiphop was considered really cool and b) there were not a lot of black people around.
Now, people in (at least some parts of) rap rather often use that word when addressing their friends. If you are a teenager and think those people are cool, you are going to start to adapt some mannerism from them, like for example the usage of that word for your friends. You possibly don't really notice that the word only gets used by black people talking to black people. If none of their friends are actually black, none of them will find that word offensive, and the teenager using the word is also not aware that it is offensive since they have never been actually exposed to it as an offensive slur, just as a term that rappers use when talking to/about their friends. The word simply doesn't have the same history in europe that it does in the US.
So now you have a subgroup of white teenagers in europe calling each other n-words, without any malice of intent, simply due to being exposed to the word in a completely different way than people in america are. Obviously this behaviour looks rather silly to a different group of people, mostly those who are not fans of rap music themselves, so THEY start to use the word to make fun of the white rap-fans.
And suddenly the word is used reasonably regularly by different people, without any really obvious connection to black people or any malice towards them.
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Seems that the recent discussion about the General forum was truly inspiring for the ABL
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Ignorance is not an excuse for spewing hateful and evil words
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Never expect a bunch of honkeys to understand.
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Before American influences regarding the word struck Sweden there used to be a pastry called negerboll in Sweden. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chokladboll This wasn't considered rude or racist in any way. I havn't met anybody that does consider it that way but it has fallen out of use since it doesn't need to be called that. You might get a friendly reminder that you shouldn't call it that if you do use it. No more than that (I've done it without thinking about it.)
Just as an example of how much less weight the word has here. I think the origin of the word is just black ball, which sounds boring. So changing the language of black ended up happening. That isn't something I've verified though.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Negro
Negro denotes "black" in Spanish and Portuguese, derived from the ancient Latin word niger, meaning black, which itself is probably from a Proto-Indo-European root *nekw-, "to be dark", akin to *nokw-, night.
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United Kingdom13775 Posts
Fact is that "negro" means "black" in a lot of languages. Very common usage and nothing wrong with it.
Also, in some languages, "negro" is a non-derogatory term to mean a person of African origin, where "black" means black-haired.
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On November 07 2015 21:38 GreenHorizons wrote:
Really? Black Europeans don't find it offensive?
They do, but white Europeans can't be bothered by what a few [black people] think.
+ Show Spoiler +Seriously though, casual racism is more of a thing in Europe. Less of a cultural consciousness of it there. Remember, Europe's point of reference to racism is when they killed ten million people for being the wrong kind of white. Casual name calling of smaller minorities seems like less of a big deal, and people are less willing to accept that there is a connection between the two. Talk to pretty much any French person about the Roma/Gypsies.
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Germany25657 Posts
Lets get back to talking about bans now people, lets not turn the ABL into General^^
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On November 08 2015 14:41 Yoav wrote:Show nested quote +On November 07 2015 21:38 GreenHorizons wrote:
Really? Black Europeans don't find it offensive?
They do, but white Europeans can't be bothered by what a few [black people] think. + Show Spoiler +Seriously though, casual racism is more of a thing in Europe. Less of a cultural consciousness of it there. Remember, Europe's point of reference to racism is when they killed ten million people for being the wrong kind of white. Casual name calling of smaller minorities seems like less of a big deal, and people are less willing to accept that there is a connection between the two. Talk to pretty much any French person about the Roma/Gypsies.
I feel like things make a bit more sense now around here. Definitely a better explanation than was given for the delayed ban earlier. Because casual racism is normal in Europe it's not viewed the same as it would be in the American public space (though we have plenty of work to do).
Lets get back to talking about bans now people, lets not turn the ABL into General^^
Carry on.
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On November 04 2015 02:06 Wuster wrote:Show nested quote +On November 04 2015 01:54 IgnE wrote:On November 03 2015 21:26 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On November 03 2015 20:45 farvacola wrote:He's an agitator, so be careful with that language. You're giving him what he wants! That's why I left the thread for a few days to cool off and let him ride out his wave haha. On November 03 2015 20:46 Cascade wrote:On November 03 2015 20:21 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On November 03 2015 12:45 Karis Vas Ryaar wrote:On November 03 2015 12:18 IgnE wrote:On November 03 2015 11:56 Karis Vas Ryaar wrote:
thanks kwark. that guy was derailing the thread and caused everyone to miss my post about the 43 million dollar gas station in afghanistan. seriously though that guy just wanted to argue everything. Shit dude what an injustice. Or maybe your post didn't merit further discussion. You can make another thread about it or repost it though so a bunch of people can say how outrageous that is. I was joking in case you were wondering. not sure if your joking as well. if anyone want the specific post that got him sent out here you go. On November 03 2015 10:18 notesfromunderground wrote:I don't intend to die on any hills, unless it's Golgotha and then I don't have to worry about US Presidential Politics because I'm like the messiah and stuff All I know is, my mother, who is a totally mainstream center-left Democrat who cares mostly about the environment, was getting really excited about Lessig and is now hopping mad at the DNC and has been pushed that much more out of the mainstream. She has deep pockets, she votes, she gives money to candidates, and she is PISSED. She, like Kwark, has a sort of obstinate attachment to common sense which makes it difficult for her to see how corrupt things are - but that ideological edifice now has a big, Lawrence Lessig shaped crack in it. I figure she's not that weird and so there have to be other people like her. So I count this as a victory  I bet Bernie Sanders is going to get a least one fat check out of all this... so suck it h8ers!! User was banned for this post. Thank god he finally got banned. Even if it wasn't his intention, I interpreted nearly everything he said regarding philosophy and politics and education as smug condescension and absurd, distracting semantics arguments. He just rubbed me the wrong way. Yeah, I know the kind you are talking about. People that are good at talking, and things sound good, but when you reread it a second or third time, you realise that there is very little actual content in the post, just a lot of loaded words. It's hard to take arguments with them though, because they don't really say anything wrong, as thye don't say much at all, but still manage sound very convincing... And if you try to go after them, they are often good at shooting more empty, but fancy-sounding posts at you. It is hard to "win" the argument from an observers perspective. Yeah, and I'm more interested in quality discussion in that thread rather than just hazy dick-swinging, because I'd like to be better educated with respect to the politics of my country. (Unfortunately, a lot of politics plays out exactly like that though...) If you had wanted to be better educated you would have paid more attention to the things notes was saying. His posts were more like icebergs, packed full of content. It just so happens that most people when confronted with "absurd" ideas immediately dismiss them instead of thinking deeply about them. I'm not going into the politics thread, but the post that got banned was exactly as others have described, full of fluffy sounding words without actually saying anything. Like he name drops Lessig and Sanders without saying in any way shape or form how they're related to DNC / corruption / campaign finance or whatever other loaded terms he was trying to link them to to get a rise out of people. He wraps all this in really vague, coded story about his Mom that again hits on so many loaded terms without actually saying what his Mom believes in or is mad about. With the added shot at Kwark for no reason. It's just a giant exercise in trolling (unless he's actually just trying to sound smart about it, which would just be sad).
Im not an american, and i know exactly what he is talking about in that post. i dont think its too much to expect people in a politics thread to have some background knowledge on the current politics stories.
i do think that his post did say something, which was that the elimination of one of the two outsiders in the race can have the opposite to intended effect, strengthening the idea that the establishment is in the wrong, and protects itself. actually a pretty important, if very obvious, effect that people should be aware of.
not sure how the rest of his posting history is, ad the politics thread seems like i place id go to get banned, so i dont know anything about the context that hasnt been posted in this thread
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i wrote a really long post in response to an op i disagreed with, and immediately the op got banned and the thread closed lol
i didn't report him or anything either, just an unfortunate coincidence
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meat thread continuing to deliver
On November 08 2015 18:24 Artisreal wrote:Show nested quote +On November 08 2015 14:26 Zooper31 wrote:
Because we were meant to? Not sure what the question is really trying to get at. Sure we could treat animals more humane but that wasn't the question being posed. Humans were made to be omnivores and that's how we are, need meat and non-meat substances alike. If men used to rape women back in the day, does that mean it's alright to do it? User was temp banned for this post.
Artisreal was just temp banned for 2 days by MoonBear.
That account was created on 2009-06-09 04:41:16 and had 58 posts.
Reason: Terrorists use the internet. By that logic, neither should you.
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Canada11355 Posts
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brilliant arguments about Heart of the storm balance
On November 10 2015 00:59 nuogaiyen wrote:
Protoss race killed starcraft, good job dev team.
User was temp banned for this post.
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jesus guys
is it really that hard to understand that race based jokes with people you know is a tad bit different than randomly calling a bunch of strangers on a forum a bunch of niggers?
I think the ban was fine, sometimes people make stupid as shit jokes they regret and what not. But what I dont get are these rationalizations in this thread.
someone who is using the word nigger as a punch line like that shitbag did isn't doing so because of some kind of cultural mix up, come on now guys. It's a 'joke' because he knows it's taboo and knows exactly what he is doing. it was a really shit attempt at shock humor or he is racist, period.
people claiming cultural differences, really? if you speak english, you know what it means. if you dont english but you know that word you sure as shit know it's offensive as hell to native english speakers, and know what will happen using it on a site filled with lots of those.
im not sure how that is getting confused with using colorful language with friends you know vs total strangers
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On November 10 2015 16:32 lacho_u wrote:
So frau Merkel, accepted all the terrorist from Siria, but doesn't give visas to intellegent young dudes. Politics..
User was temp banned for this post.
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On November 09 2015 10:43 Karis Vas Ryaar wrote:meat thread continuing to deliver Show nested quote +On November 08 2015 18:24 Artisreal wrote:On November 08 2015 14:26 Zooper31 wrote:
Because we were meant to? Not sure what the question is really trying to get at. Sure we could treat animals more humane but that wasn't the question being posed. Humans were made to be omnivores and that's how we are, need meat and non-meat substances alike. If men used to rape women back in the day, does that mean it's alright to do it? User was temp banned for this post. Show nested quote +Artisreal was just temp banned for 2 days by MoonBear.
That account was created on 2009-06-09 04:41:16 and had 58 posts.
Reason: Terrorists use the internet. By that logic, neither should you.
Amazing how MoonBear completly missed the point of the post and just banned it.
Also, pretty sad to see how a bunch of white Europeans try to tell GH how "Nigger" isn't offensive in Europe.
Of course it is.
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we sometime used negruzzi here (negru = black) way before i even heard of the n-word. Negruzzi is a family name and the word was just borrowed for colloquial use. its usage was rare but pretty specific, obviously. still, i'm with those bunch of white Europeans on its offensive value.
gypsy=țigani is offensive here; not for the gypsies but for the romanians. most go ape shit if/when they're called gypsies(especially on the internet).
so it's like a white dude from US would call another white dude from US the n-word and the later white dude would get offended. i don't even ...
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On November 11 2015 06:59 xM(Z wrote:
we sometime used negruzzi here (negru = black) way before i even heard of the n-word. Negruzzi is a family name and the word was just borrowed for colloquial use. its usage was rare but pretty specific, obviously. still, i'm with those bunch of white Europeans on its offensive value.
gypsy=țigani is offensive here; not for the gypsies but for the romanians. most go ape shit if/when they're called gypsies(especially on the internet).
so it's like a white dude from US would call another white dude from US the n-word and the later white dude would get offended. i don't even ...
It's call offended by proxy. Check your privilege
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EPT
