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On August 23 2011 15:11 Djzapz wrote:Show nested quote +On August 23 2011 14:56 Heavenly wrote:On August 23 2011 14:53 Djzapz wrote:On August 23 2011 14:49 Heavenly wrote:On August 23 2011 14:38 Djzapz wrote:IdrA is also a top foreign player so 1, 2, and 4 make up for the faults of 3. Well "point 2" is kind of a mess because it includes qualities that are very different between the players. IdrA's work ethics are horrible, for instance. Regardless, of course IdrA is more valuable than Destiny, I wasn't comparing them - sorry if it looked like I was. IdrA is a superstar. Teams hire "B-teamers" too. SLush is my favorite players and he's not a star - yet he's employable and an asset to his team. I can look at every team like FXO, mouz, Liquid, etc. - they all have players who aren't expected to win tournaments. Destiny is good enough to put up a good fight and people will get out of their way to watch his games too. I can't imagine Destiny being a bad addition to a team if he wants to be. Well Slush is alright, he's on about the same level as most people in REIGN. He is part of REIGN's A-team isn't he? Him, Spades, and Kiwi seem to be the main A-teamers and you have B-teamers like Fayth and whoever else. And him and Kiwikaki were the A-team for Root. Obviously Destiny could be a B-teamer on middleish clan if he wanted. My problem is just with the actual creation of this thread and the rage of Destiny fans, as if they actually expected EG or Liquid or a major team like that to want him? Yes, Liquid "kind of" has B-teamers not expected to win tournaments (Haypro and Tyler I guess?) but those people were signed early in the game and have since then become part of the team's identity since its creation. Who has EG picked up lately? Huk and Puma. Who has TL picked up lately? Sheth and Hero. The existence of B-teamers like LZ Gamer on EG doesn't mean EG is going to sign a B-teamer. Well look at coL, they just took all of root... I don't mean to be rude but... you know... btw I just tuned into Destiny's stream in time to watch him blindly mass spinecrawlers and turtle on two base with roach/infestor while roaming around with a burrowed hit squad. The uninspiring play I was talking about earlier that makes me baffled at his fanbase. 9300 people are watching this exact same thing he has been doing on the NA server for months whereas SlayerS_Dragon has 2k viewers and Rainbow has less than 400? I'd much rather see a player who uses infestors properly when the alternatives are not always particularly entertaining. If I want good, high level games, I'll go look up GSL VODs. In that game you saw, he was talking to Kyle and had "Infestor number 9" do a special-ops mission to murder 7 full energy infestors with 2 FG's. It was actually a fairly good match.
Well I would rather watch a high level Korean terran like Slayers_Dragon doing a wide variety of entertaining, interesting, and skillful builds against other high level opponents instead of wondering whether or not Destiny's infestors can fungal his opponent's infestors first THIS game, but okay. People are allowed to want to watch Destiny put himself in the same position every game with slight variations on micro...it just makes no sense to me why people become rabid fanboys over that play. I guess he fills the niche role of people who just want to watch a zerg play (which appears to be x4 the amount of people who want to watch a terran) but...the fanboys...I can't understand.
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He is a good player, not just because of infestors.
he is good at using other units as well, but infestors really is just the one that differentiate from other players.
I have seen SlayerS_Golden using the same style but he didn't achieve the same level of success (he wins, but it is clear that he can't be as creative as Destiny with infestors)
For a build that is so heavily revolve around a unit, there is a strong flaw tagged along with it. This is no different.
I rate him a 6 or 7 depending on what level you are looking at. Comparing against top korean, he is probably more like a 5 or 6 (as in he can win some games but not that close to being at the top level consistently)
At foreign level, he is probably a 6 to 7, he just isn't able to bring out a good tournament result.
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On August 23 2011 15:17 Heavenly wrote:Show nested quote +On August 23 2011 15:11 Djzapz wrote:On August 23 2011 14:56 Heavenly wrote:On August 23 2011 14:53 Djzapz wrote:On August 23 2011 14:49 Heavenly wrote:On August 23 2011 14:38 Djzapz wrote:IdrA is also a top foreign player so 1, 2, and 4 make up for the faults of 3. Well "point 2" is kind of a mess because it includes qualities that are very different between the players. IdrA's work ethics are horrible, for instance. Regardless, of course IdrA is more valuable than Destiny, I wasn't comparing them - sorry if it looked like I was. IdrA is a superstar. Teams hire "B-teamers" too. SLush is my favorite players and he's not a star - yet he's employable and an asset to his team. I can look at every team like FXO, mouz, Liquid, etc. - they all have players who aren't expected to win tournaments. Destiny is good enough to put up a good fight and people will get out of their way to watch his games too. I can't imagine Destiny being a bad addition to a team if he wants to be. Well Slush is alright, he's on about the same level as most people in REIGN. He is part of REIGN's A-team isn't he? Him, Spades, and Kiwi seem to be the main A-teamers and you have B-teamers like Fayth and whoever else. And him and Kiwikaki were the A-team for Root. Obviously Destiny could be a B-teamer on middleish clan if he wanted. My problem is just with the actual creation of this thread and the rage of Destiny fans, as if they actually expected EG or Liquid or a major team like that to want him? Yes, Liquid "kind of" has B-teamers not expected to win tournaments (Haypro and Tyler I guess?) but those people were signed early in the game and have since then become part of the team's identity since its creation. Who has EG picked up lately? Huk and Puma. Who has TL picked up lately? Sheth and Hero. The existence of B-teamers like LZ Gamer on EG doesn't mean EG is going to sign a B-teamer. Well look at coL, they just took all of root... I don't mean to be rude but... you know... btw I just tuned into Destiny's stream in time to watch him blindly mass spinecrawlers and turtle on two base with roach/infestor while roaming around with a burrowed hit squad. The uninspiring play I was talking about earlier that makes me baffled at his fanbase. 9300 people are watching this exact same thing he has been doing on the NA server for months whereas SlayerS_Dragon has 2k viewers and Rainbow has less than 400? I'd much rather see a player who uses infestors properly when the alternatives are not always particularly entertaining. If I want good, high level games, I'll go look up GSL VODs. In that game you saw, he was talking to Kyle and had "Infestor number 9" do a special-ops mission to murder 7 full energy infestors with 2 FG's. It was actually a fairly good match. Well I would rather watch a high level Korean terran like Slayers_Dragon doing a wide variety of entertaining, interesting, and skillful builds against other high level opponents instead of wondering whether or not Destiny's infestors can fungal his opponent's infestors first THIS game, but okay. People are allowed to want to watch Destiny put himself in the same position every game with slight variations on micro...it just makes no sense to me why people become rabid fanboys over that play. I guess he fills the niche role of people who just want to watch a zerg play (which appears to be x4 the amount of people who want to watch a terran) but...the fanboys...I can't understand.
If there are 9k people watching him spam infestors at 2am day in and day out, there's got to be SOMETHING he's doing correctly.......right? right?
Orrrr, maybe everyone on his stream is just retarded.
You decide.
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On August 23 2011 15:23 Mioraka wrote:Show nested quote +On August 23 2011 15:17 Heavenly wrote:On August 23 2011 15:11 Djzapz wrote:On August 23 2011 14:56 Heavenly wrote:On August 23 2011 14:53 Djzapz wrote:On August 23 2011 14:49 Heavenly wrote:On August 23 2011 14:38 Djzapz wrote:IdrA is also a top foreign player so 1, 2, and 4 make up for the faults of 3. Well "point 2" is kind of a mess because it includes qualities that are very different between the players. IdrA's work ethics are horrible, for instance. Regardless, of course IdrA is more valuable than Destiny, I wasn't comparing them - sorry if it looked like I was. IdrA is a superstar. Teams hire "B-teamers" too. SLush is my favorite players and he's not a star - yet he's employable and an asset to his team. I can look at every team like FXO, mouz, Liquid, etc. - they all have players who aren't expected to win tournaments. Destiny is good enough to put up a good fight and people will get out of their way to watch his games too. I can't imagine Destiny being a bad addition to a team if he wants to be. Well Slush is alright, he's on about the same level as most people in REIGN. He is part of REIGN's A-team isn't he? Him, Spades, and Kiwi seem to be the main A-teamers and you have B-teamers like Fayth and whoever else. And him and Kiwikaki were the A-team for Root. Obviously Destiny could be a B-teamer on middleish clan if he wanted. My problem is just with the actual creation of this thread and the rage of Destiny fans, as if they actually expected EG or Liquid or a major team like that to want him? Yes, Liquid "kind of" has B-teamers not expected to win tournaments (Haypro and Tyler I guess?) but those people were signed early in the game and have since then become part of the team's identity since its creation. Who has EG picked up lately? Huk and Puma. Who has TL picked up lately? Sheth and Hero. The existence of B-teamers like LZ Gamer on EG doesn't mean EG is going to sign a B-teamer. Well look at coL, they just took all of root... I don't mean to be rude but... you know... btw I just tuned into Destiny's stream in time to watch him blindly mass spinecrawlers and turtle on two base with roach/infestor while roaming around with a burrowed hit squad. The uninspiring play I was talking about earlier that makes me baffled at his fanbase. 9300 people are watching this exact same thing he has been doing on the NA server for months whereas SlayerS_Dragon has 2k viewers and Rainbow has less than 400? I'd much rather see a player who uses infestors properly when the alternatives are not always particularly entertaining. If I want good, high level games, I'll go look up GSL VODs. In that game you saw, he was talking to Kyle and had "Infestor number 9" do a special-ops mission to murder 7 full energy infestors with 2 FG's. It was actually a fairly good match. Well I would rather watch a high level Korean terran like Slayers_Dragon doing a wide variety of entertaining, interesting, and skillful builds against other high level opponents instead of wondering whether or not Destiny's infestors can fungal his opponent's infestors first THIS game, but okay. People are allowed to want to watch Destiny put himself in the same position every game with slight variations on micro...it just makes no sense to me why people become rabid fanboys over that play. I guess he fills the niche role of people who just want to watch a zerg play (which appears to be x4 the amount of people who want to watch a terran) but...the fanboys...I can't understand. If there are 9k people watching him spam infestors at 2am day in and day out, there's got to be SOMETHING he's doing correctly.......right? right? Orrrr, maybe everyone on his stream is just retarded. You decide.
Uh...okay?
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On August 23 2011 15:23 Mioraka wrote:Show nested quote +On August 23 2011 15:17 Heavenly wrote:On August 23 2011 15:11 Djzapz wrote:On August 23 2011 14:56 Heavenly wrote:On August 23 2011 14:53 Djzapz wrote:On August 23 2011 14:49 Heavenly wrote:On August 23 2011 14:38 Djzapz wrote:IdrA is also a top foreign player so 1, 2, and 4 make up for the faults of 3. Well "point 2" is kind of a mess because it includes qualities that are very different between the players. IdrA's work ethics are horrible, for instance. Regardless, of course IdrA is more valuable than Destiny, I wasn't comparing them - sorry if it looked like I was. IdrA is a superstar. Teams hire "B-teamers" too. SLush is my favorite players and he's not a star - yet he's employable and an asset to his team. I can look at every team like FXO, mouz, Liquid, etc. - they all have players who aren't expected to win tournaments. Destiny is good enough to put up a good fight and people will get out of their way to watch his games too. I can't imagine Destiny being a bad addition to a team if he wants to be. Well Slush is alright, he's on about the same level as most people in REIGN. He is part of REIGN's A-team isn't he? Him, Spades, and Kiwi seem to be the main A-teamers and you have B-teamers like Fayth and whoever else. And him and Kiwikaki were the A-team for Root. Obviously Destiny could be a B-teamer on middleish clan if he wanted. My problem is just with the actual creation of this thread and the rage of Destiny fans, as if they actually expected EG or Liquid or a major team like that to want him? Yes, Liquid "kind of" has B-teamers not expected to win tournaments (Haypro and Tyler I guess?) but those people were signed early in the game and have since then become part of the team's identity since its creation. Who has EG picked up lately? Huk and Puma. Who has TL picked up lately? Sheth and Hero. The existence of B-teamers like LZ Gamer on EG doesn't mean EG is going to sign a B-teamer. Well look at coL, they just took all of root... I don't mean to be rude but... you know... btw I just tuned into Destiny's stream in time to watch him blindly mass spinecrawlers and turtle on two base with roach/infestor while roaming around with a burrowed hit squad. The uninspiring play I was talking about earlier that makes me baffled at his fanbase. 9300 people are watching this exact same thing he has been doing on the NA server for months whereas SlayerS_Dragon has 2k viewers and Rainbow has less than 400? I'd much rather see a player who uses infestors properly when the alternatives are not always particularly entertaining. If I want good, high level games, I'll go look up GSL VODs. In that game you saw, he was talking to Kyle and had "Infestor number 9" do a special-ops mission to murder 7 full energy infestors with 2 FG's. It was actually a fairly good match. Well I would rather watch a high level Korean terran like Slayers_Dragon doing a wide variety of entertaining, interesting, and skillful builds against other high level opponents instead of wondering whether or not Destiny's infestors can fungal his opponent's infestors first THIS game, but okay. People are allowed to want to watch Destiny put himself in the same position every game with slight variations on micro...it just makes no sense to me why people become rabid fanboys over that play. I guess he fills the niche role of people who just want to watch a zerg play (which appears to be x4 the amount of people who want to watch a terran) but...the fanboys...I can't understand. If there are 9k people watching him spam infestors at 2am day in and day out, there's got to be SOMETHING he's doing correctly.......right? right? Orrrr, maybe everyone on his stream is just retarded. You decide.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argumentum_ad_populum
whether destiny is entertaining to watch or not has very little to do with how strong of a player he is. I pretty much agree with Alex's statement, Destiny's a fun player to watch and is really skilled but as a good prospect to be recruited imo there are other, better choices
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On August 23 2011 15:17 Heavenly wrote:Show nested quote +On August 23 2011 15:11 Djzapz wrote:On August 23 2011 14:56 Heavenly wrote:On August 23 2011 14:53 Djzapz wrote:On August 23 2011 14:49 Heavenly wrote:On August 23 2011 14:38 Djzapz wrote:IdrA is also a top foreign player so 1, 2, and 4 make up for the faults of 3. Well "point 2" is kind of a mess because it includes qualities that are very different between the players. IdrA's work ethics are horrible, for instance. Regardless, of course IdrA is more valuable than Destiny, I wasn't comparing them - sorry if it looked like I was. IdrA is a superstar. Teams hire "B-teamers" too. SLush is my favorite players and he's not a star - yet he's employable and an asset to his team. I can look at every team like FXO, mouz, Liquid, etc. - they all have players who aren't expected to win tournaments. Destiny is good enough to put up a good fight and people will get out of their way to watch his games too. I can't imagine Destiny being a bad addition to a team if he wants to be. Well Slush is alright, he's on about the same level as most people in REIGN. He is part of REIGN's A-team isn't he? Him, Spades, and Kiwi seem to be the main A-teamers and you have B-teamers like Fayth and whoever else. And him and Kiwikaki were the A-team for Root. Obviously Destiny could be a B-teamer on middleish clan if he wanted. My problem is just with the actual creation of this thread and the rage of Destiny fans, as if they actually expected EG or Liquid or a major team like that to want him? Yes, Liquid "kind of" has B-teamers not expected to win tournaments (Haypro and Tyler I guess?) but those people were signed early in the game and have since then become part of the team's identity since its creation. Who has EG picked up lately? Huk and Puma. Who has TL picked up lately? Sheth and Hero. The existence of B-teamers like LZ Gamer on EG doesn't mean EG is going to sign a B-teamer. Well look at coL, they just took all of root... I don't mean to be rude but... you know... btw I just tuned into Destiny's stream in time to watch him blindly mass spinecrawlers and turtle on two base with roach/infestor while roaming around with a burrowed hit squad. The uninspiring play I was talking about earlier that makes me baffled at his fanbase. 9300 people are watching this exact same thing he has been doing on the NA server for months whereas SlayerS_Dragon has 2k viewers and Rainbow has less than 400? I'd much rather see a player who uses infestors properly when the alternatives are not always particularly entertaining. If I want good, high level games, I'll go look up GSL VODs. In that game you saw, he was talking to Kyle and had "Infestor number 9" do a special-ops mission to murder 7 full energy infestors with 2 FG's. It was actually a fairly good match. Well I would rather watch a high level Korean terran like Slayers_Dragon doing a wide variety of entertaining, interesting, and skillful builds against other high level opponents instead of wondering whether or not Destiny's infestors can fungal his opponent's infestors first THIS game, but okay. People are allowed to want to watch Destiny put himself in the same position every game with slight variations on micro...it just makes no sense to me why people become rabid fanboys over that play.
Well here's the thing, I can watch VODs of better players than Dragon play anytime I want but I can't always watch Destiny's show. (which, frankly, I watch half the time and it's background noise and lulz for the other half)
As for his strategy which you dislike, I think the variations are important enough that it ends up being pretty varied. The average IdrA game is more monotonous and standard than this. TvT's in general are unbearably boring when compared to this. I've seen "standard" a billion times from a bunch of players. This is different on many levels.
I don't watch all day though.
On August 23 2011 15:27 G0dly wrote:Show nested quote +On August 23 2011 15:23 Mioraka wrote:On August 23 2011 15:17 Heavenly wrote:On August 23 2011 15:11 Djzapz wrote:On August 23 2011 14:56 Heavenly wrote:On August 23 2011 14:53 Djzapz wrote:On August 23 2011 14:49 Heavenly wrote:On August 23 2011 14:38 Djzapz wrote:IdrA is also a top foreign player so 1, 2, and 4 make up for the faults of 3. Well "point 2" is kind of a mess because it includes qualities that are very different between the players. IdrA's work ethics are horrible, for instance. Regardless, of course IdrA is more valuable than Destiny, I wasn't comparing them - sorry if it looked like I was. IdrA is a superstar. Teams hire "B-teamers" too. SLush is my favorite players and he's not a star - yet he's employable and an asset to his team. I can look at every team like FXO, mouz, Liquid, etc. - they all have players who aren't expected to win tournaments. Destiny is good enough to put up a good fight and people will get out of their way to watch his games too. I can't imagine Destiny being a bad addition to a team if he wants to be. Well Slush is alright, he's on about the same level as most people in REIGN. He is part of REIGN's A-team isn't he? Him, Spades, and Kiwi seem to be the main A-teamers and you have B-teamers like Fayth and whoever else. And him and Kiwikaki were the A-team for Root. Obviously Destiny could be a B-teamer on middleish clan if he wanted. My problem is just with the actual creation of this thread and the rage of Destiny fans, as if they actually expected EG or Liquid or a major team like that to want him? Yes, Liquid "kind of" has B-teamers not expected to win tournaments (Haypro and Tyler I guess?) but those people were signed early in the game and have since then become part of the team's identity since its creation. Who has EG picked up lately? Huk and Puma. Who has TL picked up lately? Sheth and Hero. The existence of B-teamers like LZ Gamer on EG doesn't mean EG is going to sign a B-teamer. Well look at coL, they just took all of root... I don't mean to be rude but... you know... btw I just tuned into Destiny's stream in time to watch him blindly mass spinecrawlers and turtle on two base with roach/infestor while roaming around with a burrowed hit squad. The uninspiring play I was talking about earlier that makes me baffled at his fanbase. 9300 people are watching this exact same thing he has been doing on the NA server for months whereas SlayerS_Dragon has 2k viewers and Rainbow has less than 400? I'd much rather see a player who uses infestors properly when the alternatives are not always particularly entertaining. If I want good, high level games, I'll go look up GSL VODs. In that game you saw, he was talking to Kyle and had "Infestor number 9" do a special-ops mission to murder 7 full energy infestors with 2 FG's. It was actually a fairly good match. Well I would rather watch a high level Korean terran like Slayers_Dragon doing a wide variety of entertaining, interesting, and skillful builds against other high level opponents instead of wondering whether or not Destiny's infestors can fungal his opponent's infestors first THIS game, but okay. People are allowed to want to watch Destiny put himself in the same position every game with slight variations on micro...it just makes no sense to me why people become rabid fanboys over that play. I guess he fills the niche role of people who just want to watch a zerg play (which appears to be x4 the amount of people who want to watch a terran) but...the fanboys...I can't understand. If there are 9k people watching him spam infestors at 2am day in and day out, there's got to be SOMETHING he's doing correctly.......right? right? Orrrr, maybe everyone on his stream is just retarded. You decide. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argumentum_ad_populumwhether destiny is entertaining to watch or not has very little to do with how strong of a player he is. I pretty much agree with Alex's statement, Destiny's a fun player to watch and is really skilled but as a good prospect to be recruited imo there are other, better choices
It's not an ad populum logical fallacy in this case since popularity // having a viewership kinda means that you're doing something right.
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On August 23 2011 15:28 Djzapz wrote:Show nested quote +On August 23 2011 15:17 Heavenly wrote:On August 23 2011 15:11 Djzapz wrote:On August 23 2011 14:56 Heavenly wrote:On August 23 2011 14:53 Djzapz wrote:On August 23 2011 14:49 Heavenly wrote:On August 23 2011 14:38 Djzapz wrote:IdrA is also a top foreign player so 1, 2, and 4 make up for the faults of 3. Well "point 2" is kind of a mess because it includes qualities that are very different between the players. IdrA's work ethics are horrible, for instance. Regardless, of course IdrA is more valuable than Destiny, I wasn't comparing them - sorry if it looked like I was. IdrA is a superstar. Teams hire "B-teamers" too. SLush is my favorite players and he's not a star - yet he's employable and an asset to his team. I can look at every team like FXO, mouz, Liquid, etc. - they all have players who aren't expected to win tournaments. Destiny is good enough to put up a good fight and people will get out of their way to watch his games too. I can't imagine Destiny being a bad addition to a team if he wants to be. Well Slush is alright, he's on about the same level as most people in REIGN. He is part of REIGN's A-team isn't he? Him, Spades, and Kiwi seem to be the main A-teamers and you have B-teamers like Fayth and whoever else. And him and Kiwikaki were the A-team for Root. Obviously Destiny could be a B-teamer on middleish clan if he wanted. My problem is just with the actual creation of this thread and the rage of Destiny fans, as if they actually expected EG or Liquid or a major team like that to want him? Yes, Liquid "kind of" has B-teamers not expected to win tournaments (Haypro and Tyler I guess?) but those people were signed early in the game and have since then become part of the team's identity since its creation. Who has EG picked up lately? Huk and Puma. Who has TL picked up lately? Sheth and Hero. The existence of B-teamers like LZ Gamer on EG doesn't mean EG is going to sign a B-teamer. Well look at coL, they just took all of root... I don't mean to be rude but... you know... btw I just tuned into Destiny's stream in time to watch him blindly mass spinecrawlers and turtle on two base with roach/infestor while roaming around with a burrowed hit squad. The uninspiring play I was talking about earlier that makes me baffled at his fanbase. 9300 people are watching this exact same thing he has been doing on the NA server for months whereas SlayerS_Dragon has 2k viewers and Rainbow has less than 400? I'd much rather see a player who uses infestors properly when the alternatives are not always particularly entertaining. If I want good, high level games, I'll go look up GSL VODs. In that game you saw, he was talking to Kyle and had "Infestor number 9" do a special-ops mission to murder 7 full energy infestors with 2 FG's. It was actually a fairly good match. Well I would rather watch a high level Korean terran like Slayers_Dragon doing a wide variety of entertaining, interesting, and skillful builds against other high level opponents instead of wondering whether or not Destiny's infestors can fungal his opponent's infestors first THIS game, but okay. People are allowed to want to watch Destiny put himself in the same position every game with slight variations on micro...it just makes no sense to me why people become rabid fanboys over that play. Well here's the thing, I can watch VODs of better players than Dragon play anytime I want but I can't always watch Destiny's show. (which, frankly, I watch half the time and it's background noise and lulz for the other half) As for his strategy which you dislike, I think the variations are important enough that it ends up being pretty varied. The average IdrA game is more monotonous and standard than this. TvT's in general are unbearably boring when compared to this. I've seen "standard" a billion times from a bunch of players. This is different on many levels. I don't watch all day though.
There's no point in me arguing about your personal preference (even though it's tempting because I argue about anything). The entire time I've been posting I've been baffled by the cult-like following that seems to think he's a top player and bashing EG for underrating him. He's like a much less accomplished zerg WhiteRa but even WhiteRa seems to have less viewers and rabid fanboys? Not like I care whether or not you want to watch Destiny play while acknowledging that he's not god's gift to SC2.
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On August 23 2011 15:27 G0dly wrote:Show nested quote +On August 23 2011 15:23 Mioraka wrote:On August 23 2011 15:17 Heavenly wrote:On August 23 2011 15:11 Djzapz wrote:On August 23 2011 14:56 Heavenly wrote:On August 23 2011 14:53 Djzapz wrote:On August 23 2011 14:49 Heavenly wrote:On August 23 2011 14:38 Djzapz wrote:IdrA is also a top foreign player so 1, 2, and 4 make up for the faults of 3. Well "point 2" is kind of a mess because it includes qualities that are very different between the players. IdrA's work ethics are horrible, for instance. Regardless, of course IdrA is more valuable than Destiny, I wasn't comparing them - sorry if it looked like I was. IdrA is a superstar. Teams hire "B-teamers" too. SLush is my favorite players and he's not a star - yet he's employable and an asset to his team. I can look at every team like FXO, mouz, Liquid, etc. - they all have players who aren't expected to win tournaments. Destiny is good enough to put up a good fight and people will get out of their way to watch his games too. I can't imagine Destiny being a bad addition to a team if he wants to be. Well Slush is alright, he's on about the same level as most people in REIGN. He is part of REIGN's A-team isn't he? Him, Spades, and Kiwi seem to be the main A-teamers and you have B-teamers like Fayth and whoever else. And him and Kiwikaki were the A-team for Root. Obviously Destiny could be a B-teamer on middleish clan if he wanted. My problem is just with the actual creation of this thread and the rage of Destiny fans, as if they actually expected EG or Liquid or a major team like that to want him? Yes, Liquid "kind of" has B-teamers not expected to win tournaments (Haypro and Tyler I guess?) but those people were signed early in the game and have since then become part of the team's identity since its creation. Who has EG picked up lately? Huk and Puma. Who has TL picked up lately? Sheth and Hero. The existence of B-teamers like LZ Gamer on EG doesn't mean EG is going to sign a B-teamer. Well look at coL, they just took all of root... I don't mean to be rude but... you know... btw I just tuned into Destiny's stream in time to watch him blindly mass spinecrawlers and turtle on two base with roach/infestor while roaming around with a burrowed hit squad. The uninspiring play I was talking about earlier that makes me baffled at his fanbase. 9300 people are watching this exact same thing he has been doing on the NA server for months whereas SlayerS_Dragon has 2k viewers and Rainbow has less than 400? I'd much rather see a player who uses infestors properly when the alternatives are not always particularly entertaining. If I want good, high level games, I'll go look up GSL VODs. In that game you saw, he was talking to Kyle and had "Infestor number 9" do a special-ops mission to murder 7 full energy infestors with 2 FG's. It was actually a fairly good match. Well I would rather watch a high level Korean terran like Slayers_Dragon doing a wide variety of entertaining, interesting, and skillful builds against other high level opponents instead of wondering whether or not Destiny's infestors can fungal his opponent's infestors first THIS game, but okay. People are allowed to want to watch Destiny put himself in the same position every game with slight variations on micro...it just makes no sense to me why people become rabid fanboys over that play. I guess he fills the niche role of people who just want to watch a zerg play (which appears to be x4 the amount of people who want to watch a terran) but...the fanboys...I can't understand. If there are 9k people watching him spam infestors at 2am day in and day out, there's got to be SOMETHING he's doing correctly.......right? right? Orrrr, maybe everyone on his stream is just retarded. You decide. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argumentum_ad_populumwhether destiny is entertaining to watch or not has very little to do with how strong of a player he is. I pretty much agree with Alex's statement, Destiny's a fun player to watch and is really skilled but as a good prospect to be recruited imo there are other, better choices
Uhuh? Read the post im replying to before you post plz? He mentioned slayersdragon for skill AND entertainment.
You said he's popularity has nothing to do with his skills, but which part of my post I mentioned his skills? Of course he's not top tier, I didn't say he is.
But EG rating him as 4 and think he doesn't fit in the team?
LOL you mean the team "Idra and friends" where half of their team, according to his own scale, would get a 1/10?
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On August 23 2011 15:32 Mioraka wrote:Show nested quote +On August 23 2011 15:27 G0dly wrote:On August 23 2011 15:23 Mioraka wrote:On August 23 2011 15:17 Heavenly wrote:On August 23 2011 15:11 Djzapz wrote:On August 23 2011 14:56 Heavenly wrote:On August 23 2011 14:53 Djzapz wrote:On August 23 2011 14:49 Heavenly wrote:On August 23 2011 14:38 Djzapz wrote:IdrA is also a top foreign player so 1, 2, and 4 make up for the faults of 3. Well "point 2" is kind of a mess because it includes qualities that are very different between the players. IdrA's work ethics are horrible, for instance. Regardless, of course IdrA is more valuable than Destiny, I wasn't comparing them - sorry if it looked like I was. IdrA is a superstar. Teams hire "B-teamers" too. SLush is my favorite players and he's not a star - yet he's employable and an asset to his team. I can look at every team like FXO, mouz, Liquid, etc. - they all have players who aren't expected to win tournaments. Destiny is good enough to put up a good fight and people will get out of their way to watch his games too. I can't imagine Destiny being a bad addition to a team if he wants to be. Well Slush is alright, he's on about the same level as most people in REIGN. He is part of REIGN's A-team isn't he? Him, Spades, and Kiwi seem to be the main A-teamers and you have B-teamers like Fayth and whoever else. And him and Kiwikaki were the A-team for Root. Obviously Destiny could be a B-teamer on middleish clan if he wanted. My problem is just with the actual creation of this thread and the rage of Destiny fans, as if they actually expected EG or Liquid or a major team like that to want him? Yes, Liquid "kind of" has B-teamers not expected to win tournaments (Haypro and Tyler I guess?) but those people were signed early in the game and have since then become part of the team's identity since its creation. Who has EG picked up lately? Huk and Puma. Who has TL picked up lately? Sheth and Hero. The existence of B-teamers like LZ Gamer on EG doesn't mean EG is going to sign a B-teamer. Well look at coL, they just took all of root... I don't mean to be rude but... you know... btw I just tuned into Destiny's stream in time to watch him blindly mass spinecrawlers and turtle on two base with roach/infestor while roaming around with a burrowed hit squad. The uninspiring play I was talking about earlier that makes me baffled at his fanbase. 9300 people are watching this exact same thing he has been doing on the NA server for months whereas SlayerS_Dragon has 2k viewers and Rainbow has less than 400? I'd much rather see a player who uses infestors properly when the alternatives are not always particularly entertaining. If I want good, high level games, I'll go look up GSL VODs. In that game you saw, he was talking to Kyle and had "Infestor number 9" do a special-ops mission to murder 7 full energy infestors with 2 FG's. It was actually a fairly good match. Well I would rather watch a high level Korean terran like Slayers_Dragon doing a wide variety of entertaining, interesting, and skillful builds against other high level opponents instead of wondering whether or not Destiny's infestors can fungal his opponent's infestors first THIS game, but okay. People are allowed to want to watch Destiny put himself in the same position every game with slight variations on micro...it just makes no sense to me why people become rabid fanboys over that play. I guess he fills the niche role of people who just want to watch a zerg play (which appears to be x4 the amount of people who want to watch a terran) but...the fanboys...I can't understand. If there are 9k people watching him spam infestors at 2am day in and day out, there's got to be SOMETHING he's doing correctly.......right? right? Orrrr, maybe everyone on his stream is just retarded. You decide. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argumentum_ad_populumwhether destiny is entertaining to watch or not has very little to do with how strong of a player he is. I pretty much agree with Alex's statement, Destiny's a fun player to watch and is really skilled but as a good prospect to be recruited imo there are other, better choices Uhuh? Read the post im replying to before you post plz? He mentioned slayersdragon for skill AND entertainment. You said he's popularity has nothing to do with his skills, but which part of my post I mentioned his skills? Of course he's not top tier, I didn't say he is. But EG rating him as 4 and think he doesn't fit in the team? LOL you mean the team "Idra and friends" where half of their team, according to his own scale, would get a 1/10?
What?
And IdrA and friends know half of their team is weak, that's why they have a training house and acknowledge they aren't amazing. Where does EGAlex call Incontrol a 9? He doesn't fit in the team's FUTURE plans, people like LZ Gamer are the PAST. They can acquire top level players like Huk and Puma so Destiny as a new recruit is a 4/10 on the "how much does this appeal to me scale" whereas Huk and Puma are much higher. You're just personally attacking EG's B-team that was considered skilled all the way back when they WERE recruited and are now currently under contract.
Try using a bit of logic instead of seeing red whenever someone criticizes Destiny.
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On August 23 2011 15:32 Heavenly wrote:Show nested quote +On August 23 2011 15:28 Djzapz wrote:On August 23 2011 15:17 Heavenly wrote:On August 23 2011 15:11 Djzapz wrote:On August 23 2011 14:56 Heavenly wrote:On August 23 2011 14:53 Djzapz wrote:On August 23 2011 14:49 Heavenly wrote:On August 23 2011 14:38 Djzapz wrote:IdrA is also a top foreign player so 1, 2, and 4 make up for the faults of 3. Well "point 2" is kind of a mess because it includes qualities that are very different between the players. IdrA's work ethics are horrible, for instance. Regardless, of course IdrA is more valuable than Destiny, I wasn't comparing them - sorry if it looked like I was. IdrA is a superstar. Teams hire "B-teamers" too. SLush is my favorite players and he's not a star - yet he's employable and an asset to his team. I can look at every team like FXO, mouz, Liquid, etc. - they all have players who aren't expected to win tournaments. Destiny is good enough to put up a good fight and people will get out of their way to watch his games too. I can't imagine Destiny being a bad addition to a team if he wants to be. Well Slush is alright, he's on about the same level as most people in REIGN. He is part of REIGN's A-team isn't he? Him, Spades, and Kiwi seem to be the main A-teamers and you have B-teamers like Fayth and whoever else. And him and Kiwikaki were the A-team for Root. Obviously Destiny could be a B-teamer on middleish clan if he wanted. My problem is just with the actual creation of this thread and the rage of Destiny fans, as if they actually expected EG or Liquid or a major team like that to want him? Yes, Liquid "kind of" has B-teamers not expected to win tournaments (Haypro and Tyler I guess?) but those people were signed early in the game and have since then become part of the team's identity since its creation. Who has EG picked up lately? Huk and Puma. Who has TL picked up lately? Sheth and Hero. The existence of B-teamers like LZ Gamer on EG doesn't mean EG is going to sign a B-teamer. Well look at coL, they just took all of root... I don't mean to be rude but... you know... btw I just tuned into Destiny's stream in time to watch him blindly mass spinecrawlers and turtle on two base with roach/infestor while roaming around with a burrowed hit squad. The uninspiring play I was talking about earlier that makes me baffled at his fanbase. 9300 people are watching this exact same thing he has been doing on the NA server for months whereas SlayerS_Dragon has 2k viewers and Rainbow has less than 400? I'd much rather see a player who uses infestors properly when the alternatives are not always particularly entertaining. If I want good, high level games, I'll go look up GSL VODs. In that game you saw, he was talking to Kyle and had "Infestor number 9" do a special-ops mission to murder 7 full energy infestors with 2 FG's. It was actually a fairly good match. Well I would rather watch a high level Korean terran like Slayers_Dragon doing a wide variety of entertaining, interesting, and skillful builds against other high level opponents instead of wondering whether or not Destiny's infestors can fungal his opponent's infestors first THIS game, but okay. People are allowed to want to watch Destiny put himself in the same position every game with slight variations on micro...it just makes no sense to me why people become rabid fanboys over that play. Well here's the thing, I can watch VODs of better players than Dragon play anytime I want but I can't always watch Destiny's show. (which, frankly, I watch half the time and it's background noise and lulz for the other half) As for his strategy which you dislike, I think the variations are important enough that it ends up being pretty varied. The average IdrA game is more monotonous and standard than this. TvT's in general are unbearably boring when compared to this. I've seen "standard" a billion times from a bunch of players. This is different on many levels. I don't watch all day though. There's no point in me arguing about your personal preference (even though it's tempting because I argue about anything). The entire time I've been posting I've been baffled by the cult-like following that seems to think he's a top player and bashing EG for underrating him. He's like a much less accomplished zerg WhiteRa but even WhiteRa seems to have less viewers and rabid fanboys? Not like I care whether or not you want to watch Destiny play while acknowledging that he's not god's gift to SC2.
1, cult-like following that seems to think he's a top player
Can you quote someone actually saying he is as good as Idra or even Sheth?
If not then you should stop putting up these straw man arguements.
2, bashing EG for underrating him
Not bashing EG for underrating, but bashing EG because half of their team gets half the score comparing to his own categories, this is not player bashing, but come on, EGLzgamer isn't even in GM......
3, Are you complaining about people liking something more than what you like, and arguing that for some reason they shouldn't?
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On August 23 2011 15:32 Heavenly wrote:Show nested quote +On August 23 2011 15:28 Djzapz wrote:On August 23 2011 15:17 Heavenly wrote:On August 23 2011 15:11 Djzapz wrote:On August 23 2011 14:56 Heavenly wrote:On August 23 2011 14:53 Djzapz wrote:On August 23 2011 14:49 Heavenly wrote:On August 23 2011 14:38 Djzapz wrote:IdrA is also a top foreign player so 1, 2, and 4 make up for the faults of 3. Well "point 2" is kind of a mess because it includes qualities that are very different between the players. IdrA's work ethics are horrible, for instance. Regardless, of course IdrA is more valuable than Destiny, I wasn't comparing them - sorry if it looked like I was. IdrA is a superstar. Teams hire "B-teamers" too. SLush is my favorite players and he's not a star - yet he's employable and an asset to his team. I can look at every team like FXO, mouz, Liquid, etc. - they all have players who aren't expected to win tournaments. Destiny is good enough to put up a good fight and people will get out of their way to watch his games too. I can't imagine Destiny being a bad addition to a team if he wants to be. Well Slush is alright, he's on about the same level as most people in REIGN. He is part of REIGN's A-team isn't he? Him, Spades, and Kiwi seem to be the main A-teamers and you have B-teamers like Fayth and whoever else. And him and Kiwikaki were the A-team for Root. Obviously Destiny could be a B-teamer on middleish clan if he wanted. My problem is just with the actual creation of this thread and the rage of Destiny fans, as if they actually expected EG or Liquid or a major team like that to want him? Yes, Liquid "kind of" has B-teamers not expected to win tournaments (Haypro and Tyler I guess?) but those people were signed early in the game and have since then become part of the team's identity since its creation. Who has EG picked up lately? Huk and Puma. Who has TL picked up lately? Sheth and Hero. The existence of B-teamers like LZ Gamer on EG doesn't mean EG is going to sign a B-teamer. Well look at coL, they just took all of root... I don't mean to be rude but... you know... btw I just tuned into Destiny's stream in time to watch him blindly mass spinecrawlers and turtle on two base with roach/infestor while roaming around with a burrowed hit squad. The uninspiring play I was talking about earlier that makes me baffled at his fanbase. 9300 people are watching this exact same thing he has been doing on the NA server for months whereas SlayerS_Dragon has 2k viewers and Rainbow has less than 400? I'd much rather see a player who uses infestors properly when the alternatives are not always particularly entertaining. If I want good, high level games, I'll go look up GSL VODs. In that game you saw, he was talking to Kyle and had "Infestor number 9" do a special-ops mission to murder 7 full energy infestors with 2 FG's. It was actually a fairly good match. Well I would rather watch a high level Korean terran like Slayers_Dragon doing a wide variety of entertaining, interesting, and skillful builds against other high level opponents instead of wondering whether or not Destiny's infestors can fungal his opponent's infestors first THIS game, but okay. People are allowed to want to watch Destiny put himself in the same position every game with slight variations on micro...it just makes no sense to me why people become rabid fanboys over that play. Well here's the thing, I can watch VODs of better players than Dragon play anytime I want but I can't always watch Destiny's show. (which, frankly, I watch half the time and it's background noise and lulz for the other half) As for his strategy which you dislike, I think the variations are important enough that it ends up being pretty varied. The average IdrA game is more monotonous and standard than this. TvT's in general are unbearably boring when compared to this. I've seen "standard" a billion times from a bunch of players. This is different on many levels. I don't watch all day though. There's no point in me arguing about your personal preference (even though it's tempting because I argue about anything). The entire time I've been posting I've been baffled by the cult-like following that seems to think he's a top player and bashing EG for underrating him. He's like a much less accomplished zerg WhiteRa but even WhiteRa seems to have less viewers and rabid fanboys? Not like I care whether or not you want to watch Destiny play while acknowledging that he's not god's gift to SC2.
Well, I consider myself to be a fan of Destiny. Not a "fanboy", I guess, because I think I'm sane, but I certainly have been "defending him" here even though I need to go to bed (which I'm going to do after I finish writing this post). I would do the same thing if people spoke ill of Idra, Naniwa, Sheth, Tyler or any one of the players I particularly like. I guess I kind of take it personally because you seem to have a pretty negative opinion of his playstyle and especially of his viewer-base. Maybe I shouldn't bother, but that's me - I'm a carebear and I don't get you.
Also comparing Destiny and Whitera doesn't quite make sense to me. They're not in the same league at all and their personalities are almost opposites. The only thing I can think about is the "special tactics" which are basically a show.
There are grounds to criticize Destiny's fanboys though, I'll give you that - and I'm certain he would give you that too. Entertainers all have a few drooling idiots under their wings.
I'll check back here tomorrow but it'll probably be old news by then. Good night.
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On August 23 2011 15:32 Mioraka wrote:Show nested quote +On August 23 2011 15:27 G0dly wrote:On August 23 2011 15:23 Mioraka wrote:On August 23 2011 15:17 Heavenly wrote:On August 23 2011 15:11 Djzapz wrote:On August 23 2011 14:56 Heavenly wrote:On August 23 2011 14:53 Djzapz wrote:On August 23 2011 14:49 Heavenly wrote:On August 23 2011 14:38 Djzapz wrote:IdrA is also a top foreign player so 1, 2, and 4 make up for the faults of 3. Well "point 2" is kind of a mess because it includes qualities that are very different between the players. IdrA's work ethics are horrible, for instance. Regardless, of course IdrA is more valuable than Destiny, I wasn't comparing them - sorry if it looked like I was. IdrA is a superstar. Teams hire "B-teamers" too. SLush is my favorite players and he's not a star - yet he's employable and an asset to his team. I can look at every team like FXO, mouz, Liquid, etc. - they all have players who aren't expected to win tournaments. Destiny is good enough to put up a good fight and people will get out of their way to watch his games too. I can't imagine Destiny being a bad addition to a team if he wants to be. Well Slush is alright, he's on about the same level as most people in REIGN. He is part of REIGN's A-team isn't he? Him, Spades, and Kiwi seem to be the main A-teamers and you have B-teamers like Fayth and whoever else. And him and Kiwikaki were the A-team for Root. Obviously Destiny could be a B-teamer on middleish clan if he wanted. My problem is just with the actual creation of this thread and the rage of Destiny fans, as if they actually expected EG or Liquid or a major team like that to want him? Yes, Liquid "kind of" has B-teamers not expected to win tournaments (Haypro and Tyler I guess?) but those people were signed early in the game and have since then become part of the team's identity since its creation. Who has EG picked up lately? Huk and Puma. Who has TL picked up lately? Sheth and Hero. The existence of B-teamers like LZ Gamer on EG doesn't mean EG is going to sign a B-teamer. Well look at coL, they just took all of root... I don't mean to be rude but... you know... btw I just tuned into Destiny's stream in time to watch him blindly mass spinecrawlers and turtle on two base with roach/infestor while roaming around with a burrowed hit squad. The uninspiring play I was talking about earlier that makes me baffled at his fanbase. 9300 people are watching this exact same thing he has been doing on the NA server for months whereas SlayerS_Dragon has 2k viewers and Rainbow has less than 400? I'd much rather see a player who uses infestors properly when the alternatives are not always particularly entertaining. If I want good, high level games, I'll go look up GSL VODs. In that game you saw, he was talking to Kyle and had "Infestor number 9" do a special-ops mission to murder 7 full energy infestors with 2 FG's. It was actually a fairly good match. Well I would rather watch a high level Korean terran like Slayers_Dragon doing a wide variety of entertaining, interesting, and skillful builds against other high level opponents instead of wondering whether or not Destiny's infestors can fungal his opponent's infestors first THIS game, but okay. People are allowed to want to watch Destiny put himself in the same position every game with slight variations on micro...it just makes no sense to me why people become rabid fanboys over that play. I guess he fills the niche role of people who just want to watch a zerg play (which appears to be x4 the amount of people who want to watch a terran) but...the fanboys...I can't understand. If there are 9k people watching him spam infestors at 2am day in and day out, there's got to be SOMETHING he's doing correctly.......right? right? Orrrr, maybe everyone on his stream is just retarded. You decide. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argumentum_ad_populumwhether destiny is entertaining to watch or not has very little to do with how strong of a player he is. I pretty much agree with Alex's statement, Destiny's a fun player to watch and is really skilled but as a good prospect to be recruited imo there are other, better choices Uhuh? Read the post im replying to before you post plz? He mentioned slayersdragon for skill AND entertainment. You said he's popularity has nothing to do with his skills, but which part of my post I mentioned his skills? Of course he's not top tier, I didn't say he is. But EG rating him as 4 and think he doesn't fit in the team? LOL you mean the team "Idra and friends" where half of their team, according to his own scale, would get a 1/10?
actually, based on TLPD's elo ranking, every single EG player has had a higher elo peak than destiny.
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On August 23 2011 15:40 Mioraka wrote:Show nested quote +On August 23 2011 15:32 Heavenly wrote:On August 23 2011 15:28 Djzapz wrote:On August 23 2011 15:17 Heavenly wrote:On August 23 2011 15:11 Djzapz wrote:On August 23 2011 14:56 Heavenly wrote:On August 23 2011 14:53 Djzapz wrote:On August 23 2011 14:49 Heavenly wrote:On August 23 2011 14:38 Djzapz wrote:IdrA is also a top foreign player so 1, 2, and 4 make up for the faults of 3. Well "point 2" is kind of a mess because it includes qualities that are very different between the players. IdrA's work ethics are horrible, for instance. Regardless, of course IdrA is more valuable than Destiny, I wasn't comparing them - sorry if it looked like I was. IdrA is a superstar. Teams hire "B-teamers" too. SLush is my favorite players and he's not a star - yet he's employable and an asset to his team. I can look at every team like FXO, mouz, Liquid, etc. - they all have players who aren't expected to win tournaments. Destiny is good enough to put up a good fight and people will get out of their way to watch his games too. I can't imagine Destiny being a bad addition to a team if he wants to be. Well Slush is alright, he's on about the same level as most people in REIGN. He is part of REIGN's A-team isn't he? Him, Spades, and Kiwi seem to be the main A-teamers and you have B-teamers like Fayth and whoever else. And him and Kiwikaki were the A-team for Root. Obviously Destiny could be a B-teamer on middleish clan if he wanted. My problem is just with the actual creation of this thread and the rage of Destiny fans, as if they actually expected EG or Liquid or a major team like that to want him? Yes, Liquid "kind of" has B-teamers not expected to win tournaments (Haypro and Tyler I guess?) but those people were signed early in the game and have since then become part of the team's identity since its creation. Who has EG picked up lately? Huk and Puma. Who has TL picked up lately? Sheth and Hero. The existence of B-teamers like LZ Gamer on EG doesn't mean EG is going to sign a B-teamer. Well look at coL, they just took all of root... I don't mean to be rude but... you know... btw I just tuned into Destiny's stream in time to watch him blindly mass spinecrawlers and turtle on two base with roach/infestor while roaming around with a burrowed hit squad. The uninspiring play I was talking about earlier that makes me baffled at his fanbase. 9300 people are watching this exact same thing he has been doing on the NA server for months whereas SlayerS_Dragon has 2k viewers and Rainbow has less than 400? I'd much rather see a player who uses infestors properly when the alternatives are not always particularly entertaining. If I want good, high level games, I'll go look up GSL VODs. In that game you saw, he was talking to Kyle and had "Infestor number 9" do a special-ops mission to murder 7 full energy infestors with 2 FG's. It was actually a fairly good match. Well I would rather watch a high level Korean terran like Slayers_Dragon doing a wide variety of entertaining, interesting, and skillful builds against other high level opponents instead of wondering whether or not Destiny's infestors can fungal his opponent's infestors first THIS game, but okay. People are allowed to want to watch Destiny put himself in the same position every game with slight variations on micro...it just makes no sense to me why people become rabid fanboys over that play. Well here's the thing, I can watch VODs of better players than Dragon play anytime I want but I can't always watch Destiny's show. (which, frankly, I watch half the time and it's background noise and lulz for the other half) As for his strategy which you dislike, I think the variations are important enough that it ends up being pretty varied. The average IdrA game is more monotonous and standard than this. TvT's in general are unbearably boring when compared to this. I've seen "standard" a billion times from a bunch of players. This is different on many levels. I don't watch all day though. There's no point in me arguing about your personal preference (even though it's tempting because I argue about anything). The entire time I've been posting I've been baffled by the cult-like following that seems to think he's a top player and bashing EG for underrating him. He's like a much less accomplished zerg WhiteRa but even WhiteRa seems to have less viewers and rabid fanboys? Not like I care whether or not you want to watch Destiny play while acknowledging that he's not god's gift to SC2. 1, cult-like following that seems to think he's a top player Can you quote someone actually saying he is as good as Idra or even Sheth? If not then you should stop putting up these straw man arguements. 2, bashing EG for underrating him Not bashing EG for underrating, but bashing EG because half of their team gets half the score comparing to his own categories, this is not player bashing, but come on, EGLzgamer isn't even in GM...... 3, Are you complaining about people liking something more than what you like, and arguing that for some reason they shouldn't?
1) Read a few pages of this thread where people say he would be a good addition to Slayers, could participate in GSL Code A, is on Korean level due to beating Ace and Bomber, etc.
2) Lzgamer was good in his time and is now currently under a contract, as are all other underperforming players. Half of their contracted team not meeting their current standards for recruitment has nothing to do with anything and is just an attack on EG.
3) No.
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On August 23 2011 15:44 G0dly wrote:Show nested quote +On August 23 2011 15:32 Mioraka wrote:On August 23 2011 15:27 G0dly wrote:On August 23 2011 15:23 Mioraka wrote:On August 23 2011 15:17 Heavenly wrote:On August 23 2011 15:11 Djzapz wrote:On August 23 2011 14:56 Heavenly wrote:On August 23 2011 14:53 Djzapz wrote:On August 23 2011 14:49 Heavenly wrote:On August 23 2011 14:38 Djzapz wrote:
[quote]
Well "point 2" is kind of a mess because it includes qualities that are very different between the players. IdrA's work ethics are horrible, for instance.
Regardless, of course IdrA is more valuable than Destiny, I wasn't comparing them - sorry if it looked like I was. IdrA is a superstar.
Teams hire "B-teamers" too. SLush is my favorite players and he's not a star - yet he's employable and an asset to his team. I can look at every team like FXO, mouz, Liquid, etc. - they all have players who aren't expected to win tournaments. Destiny is good enough to put up a good fight and people will get out of their way to watch his games too.
I can't imagine Destiny being a bad addition to a team if he wants to be. Well Slush is alright, he's on about the same level as most people in REIGN. He is part of REIGN's A-team isn't he? Him, Spades, and Kiwi seem to be the main A-teamers and you have B-teamers like Fayth and whoever else. And him and Kiwikaki were the A-team for Root. Obviously Destiny could be a B-teamer on middleish clan if he wanted. My problem is just with the actual creation of this thread and the rage of Destiny fans, as if they actually expected EG or Liquid or a major team like that to want him? Yes, Liquid "kind of" has B-teamers not expected to win tournaments (Haypro and Tyler I guess?) but those people were signed early in the game and have since then become part of the team's identity since its creation. Who has EG picked up lately? Huk and Puma. Who has TL picked up lately? Sheth and Hero. The existence of B-teamers like LZ Gamer on EG doesn't mean EG is going to sign a B-teamer. Well look at coL, they just took all of root... I don't mean to be rude but... you know... btw I just tuned into Destiny's stream in time to watch him blindly mass spinecrawlers and turtle on two base with roach/infestor while roaming around with a burrowed hit squad. The uninspiring play I was talking about earlier that makes me baffled at his fanbase. 9300 people are watching this exact same thing he has been doing on the NA server for months whereas SlayerS_Dragon has 2k viewers and Rainbow has less than 400? I'd much rather see a player who uses infestors properly when the alternatives are not always particularly entertaining. If I want good, high level games, I'll go look up GSL VODs. In that game you saw, he was talking to Kyle and had "Infestor number 9" do a special-ops mission to murder 7 full energy infestors with 2 FG's. It was actually a fairly good match. Well I would rather watch a high level Korean terran like Slayers_Dragon doing a wide variety of entertaining, interesting, and skillful builds against other high level opponents instead of wondering whether or not Destiny's infestors can fungal his opponent's infestors first THIS game, but okay. People are allowed to want to watch Destiny put himself in the same position every game with slight variations on micro...it just makes no sense to me why people become rabid fanboys over that play. I guess he fills the niche role of people who just want to watch a zerg play (which appears to be x4 the amount of people who want to watch a terran) but...the fanboys...I can't understand. If there are 9k people watching him spam infestors at 2am day in and day out, there's got to be SOMETHING he's doing correctly.......right? right? Orrrr, maybe everyone on his stream is just retarded. You decide. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argumentum_ad_populumwhether destiny is entertaining to watch or not has very little to do with how strong of a player he is. I pretty much agree with Alex's statement, Destiny's a fun player to watch and is really skilled but as a good prospect to be recruited imo there are other, better choices Uhuh? Read the post im replying to before you post plz? He mentioned slayersdragon for skill AND entertainment. You said he's popularity has nothing to do with his skills, but which part of my post I mentioned his skills? Of course he's not top tier, I didn't say he is. But EG rating him as 4 and think he doesn't fit in the team? LOL you mean the team "Idra and friends" where half of their team, according to his own scale, would get a 1/10? actually, based on TLPD's elo ranking, every single EG player has had a higher elo peak than destiny.
Was going to go but I have to point out, how many Craftscup has Destiny participated in? ELO is not a good gauge when it's fairly easy to boost it (in the low ranks anyway) by playing in easy tournaments.
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On August 23 2011 15:48 Djzapz wrote:Show nested quote +On August 23 2011 15:44 G0dly wrote:On August 23 2011 15:32 Mioraka wrote:On August 23 2011 15:27 G0dly wrote:On August 23 2011 15:23 Mioraka wrote:On August 23 2011 15:17 Heavenly wrote:On August 23 2011 15:11 Djzapz wrote:On August 23 2011 14:56 Heavenly wrote:On August 23 2011 14:53 Djzapz wrote:On August 23 2011 14:49 Heavenly wrote:
[quote]
Well Slush is alright, he's on about the same level as most people in REIGN. He is part of REIGN's A-team isn't he? Him, Spades, and Kiwi seem to be the main A-teamers and you have B-teamers like Fayth and whoever else. And him and Kiwikaki were the A-team for Root. Obviously Destiny could be a B-teamer on middleish clan if he wanted. My problem is just with the actual creation of this thread and the rage of Destiny fans, as if they actually expected EG or Liquid or a major team like that to want him? Yes, Liquid "kind of" has B-teamers not expected to win tournaments (Haypro and Tyler I guess?) but those people were signed early in the game and have since then become part of the team's identity since its creation. Who has EG picked up lately? Huk and Puma. Who has TL picked up lately? Sheth and Hero. The existence of B-teamers like LZ Gamer on EG doesn't mean EG is going to sign a B-teamer. Well look at coL, they just took all of root... I don't mean to be rude but... you know... btw I just tuned into Destiny's stream in time to watch him blindly mass spinecrawlers and turtle on two base with roach/infestor while roaming around with a burrowed hit squad. The uninspiring play I was talking about earlier that makes me baffled at his fanbase. 9300 people are watching this exact same thing he has been doing on the NA server for months whereas SlayerS_Dragon has 2k viewers and Rainbow has less than 400? I'd much rather see a player who uses infestors properly when the alternatives are not always particularly entertaining. If I want good, high level games, I'll go look up GSL VODs. In that game you saw, he was talking to Kyle and had "Infestor number 9" do a special-ops mission to murder 7 full energy infestors with 2 FG's. It was actually a fairly good match. Well I would rather watch a high level Korean terran like Slayers_Dragon doing a wide variety of entertaining, interesting, and skillful builds against other high level opponents instead of wondering whether or not Destiny's infestors can fungal his opponent's infestors first THIS game, but okay. People are allowed to want to watch Destiny put himself in the same position every game with slight variations on micro...it just makes no sense to me why people become rabid fanboys over that play. I guess he fills the niche role of people who just want to watch a zerg play (which appears to be x4 the amount of people who want to watch a terran) but...the fanboys...I can't understand. If there are 9k people watching him spam infestors at 2am day in and day out, there's got to be SOMETHING he's doing correctly.......right? right? Orrrr, maybe everyone on his stream is just retarded. You decide. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argumentum_ad_populumwhether destiny is entertaining to watch or not has very little to do with how strong of a player he is. I pretty much agree with Alex's statement, Destiny's a fun player to watch and is really skilled but as a good prospect to be recruited imo there are other, better choices Uhuh? Read the post im replying to before you post plz? He mentioned slayersdragon for skill AND entertainment. You said he's popularity has nothing to do with his skills, but which part of my post I mentioned his skills? Of course he's not top tier, I didn't say he is. But EG rating him as 4 and think he doesn't fit in the team? LOL you mean the team "Idra and friends" where half of their team, according to his own scale, would get a 1/10? actually, based on TLPD's elo ranking, every single EG player has had a higher elo peak than destiny. Was going to go but I have to point out, how many Craftscup has Destiny participated in? ELO is not a good gauge when it's fairly easy to boost it (in the low ranks anyway) by playing in easy tournaments.
what objective measurement of skill would you prefer?
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destiny's got a large dedicated following, every perceived attack on him will instantly get made into a much bigger deal than it really is.
I mean, it's a (single) esports manager who is giving his honest opinion on a player and all of a sudden it's a good ol' bash EG time.
I like Destiny, he's a funny guy, I watch his stream occasionally, but when EG's recruiting players like Huk and Puma, Destiny's rating makes sense.
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On August 23 2011 15:51 G0dly wrote:
destiny's got a large dedicated following, every perceived attack on him will instantly get made into a much bigger deal than it really is.
I mean, it's a (single) esports manager who is giving his honest opinion on a player and all of a sudden it's a good ol' bash EG time.
I like Destiny, he's a funny guy, I watch his stream occasionally, but when EG's recruiting players like Huk and Puma, Destiny's rating makes sense.
Maybe because his name is EGAlex.
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On August 23 2011 15:11 Djzapz wrote:Show nested quote +On August 23 2011 14:56 Heavenly wrote:On August 23 2011 14:53 Djzapz wrote:On August 23 2011 14:49 Heavenly wrote:On August 23 2011 14:38 Djzapz wrote:IdrA is also a top foreign player so 1, 2, and 4 make up for the faults of 3. Well "point 2" is kind of a mess because it includes qualities that are very different between the players. IdrA's work ethics are horrible, for instance. Regardless, of course IdrA is more valuable than Destiny, I wasn't comparing them - sorry if it looked like I was. IdrA is a superstar. Teams hire "B-teamers" too. SLush is my favorite players and he's not a star - yet he's employable and an asset to his team. I can look at every team like FXO, mouz, Liquid, etc. - they all have players who aren't expected to win tournaments. Destiny is good enough to put up a good fight and people will get out of their way to watch his games too. I can't imagine Destiny being a bad addition to a team if he wants to be. Well Slush is alright, he's on about the same level as most people in REIGN. He is part of REIGN's A-team isn't he? Him, Spades, and Kiwi seem to be the main A-teamers and you have B-teamers like Fayth and whoever else. And him and Kiwikaki were the A-team for Root. Obviously Destiny could be a B-teamer on middleish clan if he wanted. My problem is just with the actual creation of this thread and the rage of Destiny fans, as if they actually expected EG or Liquid or a major team like that to want him? Yes, Liquid "kind of" has B-teamers not expected to win tournaments (Haypro and Tyler I guess?) but those people were signed early in the game and have since then become part of the team's identity since its creation. Who has EG picked up lately? Huk and Puma. Who has TL picked up lately? Sheth and Hero. The existence of B-teamers like LZ Gamer on EG doesn't mean EG is going to sign a B-teamer. Well look at coL, they just took all of root... I don't mean to be rude but... you know... btw I just tuned into Destiny's stream in time to watch him blindly mass spinecrawlers and turtle on two base with roach/infestor while roaming around with a burrowed hit squad. The uninspiring play I was talking about earlier that makes me baffled at his fanbase. 9300 people are watching this exact same thing he has been doing on the NA server for months whereas SlayerS_Dragon has 2k viewers and Rainbow has less than 400? I'd much rather see a player who uses infestors properly when the alternatives are not always particularly entertaining. If I want good, high level games, I'll go look up GSL VODs. In that game you saw, he was talking to Kyle and had "Infestor number 9" do a special-ops mission to murder 7 full energy infestors with 2 FG's. It was actually a fairly good match.
Properly? He just blindly sends burrowed infestors into his enemies base. Either the opponent ignores infestors and ignorantly loses to them, or they counter the infestors, Destiny cries about protoss and promptly quits the game.
He has less build variety than BW Idra and has a louder mouth. EG's ranking of Destiny isn't comparing him to LZ or Incontrol, it's compared to players like HuK and Puma.
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On August 23 2011 15:41 Djzapz wrote:Show nested quote +On August 23 2011 15:32 Heavenly wrote:On August 23 2011 15:28 Djzapz wrote:On August 23 2011 15:17 Heavenly wrote:On August 23 2011 15:11 Djzapz wrote:On August 23 2011 14:56 Heavenly wrote:On August 23 2011 14:53 Djzapz wrote:On August 23 2011 14:49 Heavenly wrote:On August 23 2011 14:38 Djzapz wrote:IdrA is also a top foreign player so 1, 2, and 4 make up for the faults of 3. Well "point 2" is kind of a mess because it includes qualities that are very different between the players. IdrA's work ethics are horrible, for instance. Regardless, of course IdrA is more valuable than Destiny, I wasn't comparing them - sorry if it looked like I was. IdrA is a superstar. Teams hire "B-teamers" too. SLush is my favorite players and he's not a star - yet he's employable and an asset to his team. I can look at every team like FXO, mouz, Liquid, etc. - they all have players who aren't expected to win tournaments. Destiny is good enough to put up a good fight and people will get out of their way to watch his games too. I can't imagine Destiny being a bad addition to a team if he wants to be. Well Slush is alright, he's on about the same level as most people in REIGN. He is part of REIGN's A-team isn't he? Him, Spades, and Kiwi seem to be the main A-teamers and you have B-teamers like Fayth and whoever else. And him and Kiwikaki were the A-team for Root. Obviously Destiny could be a B-teamer on middleish clan if he wanted. My problem is just with the actual creation of this thread and the rage of Destiny fans, as if they actually expected EG or Liquid or a major team like that to want him? Yes, Liquid "kind of" has B-teamers not expected to win tournaments (Haypro and Tyler I guess?) but those people were signed early in the game and have since then become part of the team's identity since its creation. Who has EG picked up lately? Huk and Puma. Who has TL picked up lately? Sheth and Hero. The existence of B-teamers like LZ Gamer on EG doesn't mean EG is going to sign a B-teamer. Well look at coL, they just took all of root... I don't mean to be rude but... you know... btw I just tuned into Destiny's stream in time to watch him blindly mass spinecrawlers and turtle on two base with roach/infestor while roaming around with a burrowed hit squad. The uninspiring play I was talking about earlier that makes me baffled at his fanbase. 9300 people are watching this exact same thing he has been doing on the NA server for months whereas SlayerS_Dragon has 2k viewers and Rainbow has less than 400? I'd much rather see a player who uses infestors properly when the alternatives are not always particularly entertaining. If I want good, high level games, I'll go look up GSL VODs. In that game you saw, he was talking to Kyle and had "Infestor number 9" do a special-ops mission to murder 7 full energy infestors with 2 FG's. It was actually a fairly good match. Well I would rather watch a high level Korean terran like Slayers_Dragon doing a wide variety of entertaining, interesting, and skillful builds against other high level opponents instead of wondering whether or not Destiny's infestors can fungal his opponent's infestors first THIS game, but okay. People are allowed to want to watch Destiny put himself in the same position every game with slight variations on micro...it just makes no sense to me why people become rabid fanboys over that play. Well here's the thing, I can watch VODs of better players than Dragon play anytime I want but I can't always watch Destiny's show. (which, frankly, I watch half the time and it's background noise and lulz for the other half) As for his strategy which you dislike, I think the variations are important enough that it ends up being pretty varied. The average IdrA game is more monotonous and standard than this. TvT's in general are unbearably boring when compared to this. I've seen "standard" a billion times from a bunch of players. This is different on many levels. I don't watch all day though. There's no point in me arguing about your personal preference (even though it's tempting because I argue about anything). The entire time I've been posting I've been baffled by the cult-like following that seems to think he's a top player and bashing EG for underrating him. He's like a much less accomplished zerg WhiteRa but even WhiteRa seems to have less viewers and rabid fanboys? Not like I care whether or not you want to watch Destiny play while acknowledging that he's not god's gift to SC2. Well, I consider myself to be a fan of Destiny. Not a "fanboy", I guess, because I think I'm sane, but I certainly have been "defending him" here even though I need to go to bed (which I'm going to do after I finish writing this post). I would do the same thing if people spoke ill of Idra, Naniwa, Sheth, Tyler or any one of the players I particularly like. I guess I kind of take it personally because you seem to have a pretty negative opinion of his playstyle and especially of his viewer-base. Maybe I shouldn't bother, but that's me - I'm a carebear and I don't get you. Also comparing Destiny and Whitera doesn't quite make sense to me. They're not in the same league at all and their personalities are almost opposites. The only thing I can think about is the "special tactics" which are basically a show. There are grounds to criticize Destiny's fanboys though, I'll give you that - and I'm certain he would give you that too. Entertainers all have a few drooling idiots under their wings. I'll check back here tomorrow but it'll probably be old news by then. Good night.
I just think Destiny is a boring and fairly gimmicky player. Making infestors isn't a gimmick but the way he plays is. Blindly throw down spine crawlers, turtling with infestors, barely ever attempting to scout except with burrowed infestors, etc. There seems to be no attempt to actually try and figure things out on a deep level, just "pimpest play" your way through the game. When someone like IdrA talks about his play you go "oh, so he made exactly 13 drones at this timing for that exact reason. While he might be getting a bit better at "pimpest playing" his way through a situation he will never be a Ret.
I compare Destiny to much less accomplished WhiteRa because both are known for breaking the norms of their race with "special tactics" and because of their personalities attracting a lot of followers even if they are polar opposites.
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EPT
