On June 13 2011 07:28 Housemd wrote: I don't get the fuss in this thread.
Anna stated that evolution should be taught in school along with other theories. She never said "God created the world, people, trees, etc. and that religion be the only thing taught"
As for her believing in intelligent design, who gives a fuck? I bet there's people in the world who believe in intelligent design and have done far more in the world than the community here. It's there belief, let them be...
I don't think you've heard the history of the seemingly inoccuous phrase "alongside other theories" and the intelligent design movement as a whole. It's not just a personal belief, so much as a movement to shoehorn creationism into the classroom under the pretext that it's scientifically legitimate as 'another theory'.
I don't particularly blame Anna for being sucked in by it, but people have a right to discuss it, and to judge her for it.
EDIT: All the same, Incontrol's point is valid. Religious debates on TL (or indeed the interwebs) never go anywhere worthwhile.
Oh wow, I really didn't know about the history. But still, I think we're being a little too harsh on Anna. It's her beliefs and people are just bashing her.
And yea, these religious debates are completely unnecessary and get us nowhere. Believe in Allah, Jesus, Yahweh, etc. I really don't care so as long as you don't impose your beliefs on someone who doesn't want to hear them or give them any merit.
Isn't teaching kids bullshit like creationism in school even worse than that?
These widespread stupid beliefs like creationism should be fought wherever they can, especially in the USA. It's just super weird and probably counter-productive when one of the most developed countries has a majority of people who don't even believe in evolution. I don't think an anti-science society is very helpful for a better future at all.
So yeah, I think we should discuss it here if someone who thinks it's acceptable to teach Intelligent Design in schools should really be Miss USA... or if you have to say this in order to get more votes, what kind of fucked up society the USA is.
On June 13 2011 07:28 Housemd wrote: I don't get the fuss in this thread.
Anna stated that evolution should be taught in school along with other theories. She never said "God created the world, people, trees, etc. and that religion be the only thing taught"
As for her believing in intelligent design, who gives a fuck? I bet there's people in the world who believe in intelligent design and have done far more in the world than the community here. It's there belief, let them be...
I don't think you've heard the history of the seemingly inoccuous phrase "alongside other theories" and the intelligent design movement as a whole. It's not just a personal belief, so much as a movement to shoehorn creationism into the classroom under the pretext that it's scientifically legitimate as 'another theory'.
I don't particularly blame Anna for being sucked in by it, but people have a right to discuss it, and to judge her for it.
EDIT: All the same, Incontrol's point is valid. Religious debates on TL (or indeed the interwebs) never go anywhere worthwhile.
Oh wow, I really didn't know about the history. But still, I think we're being a little too harsh on Anna. It's her beliefs and people are just bashing her.
And yea, these religious debates are completely unnecessary and get us nowhere. Believe in Allah, Jesus, Yahweh, etc. I really don't care so as long as you don't impose your beliefs on someone who doesn't want to hear them or give them any merit.
Isn't teaching kids bullshit like creationism in school even worse than that?
These widespread stupid beliefs like creationism should be fought wherever they can, especially in the USA. It's just super weird and probably counter-productive when one of the most developed countries has a majority of people who don't even believe in evolution. I don't think an anti-science society is very helpful for a better future at all.
So yeah, I think we should discuss it here if someone who thinks it's acceptable to teach Intelligent Design in schools should really be Miss USA... or if you have to say this in order to get more votes, what kind of fucked up society the USA is.
Absolutely. I think teaching someone the religion of Islam, the Jewish religion, Christianity can go semi-far. It allows us to connect with the different cultures of the world and gain insight on them, even though we may not support or understand their beliefs. It's a nice socialization tool and in my opinion, teaching a little bit of religion allows us to gain tolerance for the different beliefs people have.
EDIT: When, I say "teaching someone", I just mean giving students a bit of background into the religion and how it originated.
On June 13 2011 02:13 Slaughter wrote: So out of the thousands of things that she can have an opinion or belief for some of you guys are dropping your "support" for her because you disagree on ONE issue. Classy. Why can't people simply respect that on some things people can have a different opinion? Even if your sure you are right you can still respect them as a person. Too many people seem to be automatically turned off to someone when they find out they have a different view on some issue (esp on the "big" issues).
This is not something silly like whether you think gun control is good or bad, or whether government has a place in health insurance. This is not something trivial like whether we should be spending lives and money rebuilding a nation on the far side of the world or whether the rich deserve a tax cut and if trickle down economics is real.
The Evolution vs Creationism debate and whether one or the other belongs in school will affect the very basis in which the next generation of people in the west view their VERY REALITY. It maybe the single most important issue today and it should be fought on all fronts. This is not about money or power which is minor when compared to this issue.
Unfortunately Miss Oregon is on the wrong side of this line. I don't care if she believes in ID. I really don't. But I really do care that she thinks ID has a place in school and that religious hogwash should be fed to youngsters as Science.
The Islamic world was the master of science and technology and they let fundamentalist religious bullshit seep into their mainstream way of thinking and they are still paying the price for it. This is an issue that affects everyone and anyone who has any values modern society should fight tooth and nail against this
On June 13 2011 02:13 Slaughter wrote: So out of the thousands of things that she can have an opinion or belief for some of you guys are dropping your "support" for her because you disagree on ONE issue. Classy. Why can't people simply respect that on some things people can have a different opinion? Even if your sure you are right you can still respect them as a person. Too many people seem to be automatically turned off to someone when they find out they have a different view on some issue (esp on the "big" issues).
This is not something silly like whether you think gun control is good or bad, or whether government has a place in health insurance. This is not something trivial like whether we should be spending lives and money rebuilding a nation on the far side of the world or whether the rich deserve a tax cut and if trickle down economics is real.
The Evolution vs Creationism debate and whether one or the other belongs in school will affect the very basis in which the next generation of people in the west view their VERY REALITY. It maybe the single most important issue today and it should be fought on all fronts. This is not about money or power which is minor when compared to this issue.
Unfortunately Miss Oregon is on the wrong side of this line. I don't care if she believes in ID. I really don't. But I really do care that she thinks ID has a place in school and that religious hogwash should be fed to youngsters as Science.
The Islamic world was the master of science and technology and they let fundamentalist religious bullshit seep into their mainstream way of thinking and they are still paying the price for it. This is an issue that affects everyone and anyone who has any values modern society should fight tooth and nail against this
I wholeheartedly agree with you, this is an issue you should fight for. It scares me to think that ID could be taught in schools because ID is NOT science and should never be taught in a SCIENCE class. If they chose to enroll their kids in a religious school, and in that school that teach ID that's sweet, but in Public Schools that should never be allowed, Public Schools are bad enough without blatantly wrong information being taught.
On June 13 2011 02:13 Slaughter wrote: So out of the thousands of things that she can have an opinion or belief for some of you guys are dropping your "support" for her because you disagree on ONE issue. Classy. Why can't people simply respect that on some things people can have a different opinion? Even if your sure you are right you can still respect them as a person. Too many people seem to be automatically turned off to someone when they find out they have a different view on some issue (esp on the "big" issues).
This is not something silly like whether you think gun control is good or bad, or whether government has a place in health insurance. This is not something trivial like whether we should be spending lives and money rebuilding a nation on the far side of the world or whether the rich deserve a tax cut and if trickle down economics is real.
The Evolution vs Creationism debate and whether one or the other belongs in school will affect the very basis in which the next generation of people in the west view their VERY REALITY. It maybe the single most important issue today and it should be fought on all fronts. This is not about money or power which is minor when compared to this issue.
Unfortunately Miss Oregon is on the wrong side of this line. I don't care if she believes in ID. I really don't. But I really do care that she thinks ID has a place in school and that religious hogwash should be fed to youngsters as Science.
The Islamic world was the master of science and technology and they let fundamentalist religious bullshit seep into their mainstream way of thinking and they are still paying the price for it. This is an issue that affects everyone and anyone who has any values modern society should fight tooth and nail against this
I wholeheartedly agree with you, this is an issue you should fight for. It scares me to think that ID could be taught in schools because ID is NOT science and should never be taught in a SCIENCE class. If they chose to enroll their kids in a religious school, and in that school that teach ID that's sweet, but in Public Schools that should never be allowed, Public Schools are bad enough without blatantly wrong information being taught.
I agree with you as well, Intelligent design does not belong in the classroom. I don't need to vote for someone for something if I don't agree with her, regardless of her connections to some starcraft players.
She likes gaming, she looks awesome, she is an intelligent person, Yeah, cool.
I dont care what she believes in. I dont care if she would be black, jewish, christian, converted to islam (except for some terroristic tendencies ) or thinks the earth is a disc riding on a giant turtle. She doesn't have to be the best person in the world or an human idol without any faults.
Please stop this pointless discussions. The only thing that matters is that she is a precious member of our community, people who love gaming and Starcraft. Everything I catched up in interviews, SotG and other stuff she was involved was cool and entertaining. She is a lovely person and every person who gives love to the Starcraft-Community should get our respect and our support. Haters will be around every corner, especially with the anonymity in the internet.
Did she actually say ID should be taught or just that she believes in it?
Just checked twitter Anna Prosser Evolution: I believe in intelligent design, the separation of church & state, & the responsibility of every individual to search for truth.
Unless she said elsewhere that it has a place in schools I don't see a problem with this at all, despite the fact I strongly disagree with ID.
On June 13 2011 06:08 iNcontroL wrote: the great destroyer of TL
The Religious Debate!!!
Go find a thread that isn't absolutely ruined by a bunch of people going over and over and over the most beaten dead horse on the planet.
Mindless defense from the white knight. This thread is the place to comment on Ms. Anna Prosser, sir. That's the subject at hand, and you're gonna have to deal with the fact that not everyone supports her. If she's dumb enough to believe in ID, people will forever call her out on it around TL. (in a thread devoted to her reputation, in a popularity contest, no less) As if any neck beard can resist such bait?
If it was a few years earlier, and someone you weren't dating, you'd probably be the first to make some not-quite-clever, sarcastic remark and expect nothing but praise for it. Gimme a break.
On June 13 2011 02:16 iNcontroL wrote: rather than be a dick about it every chance you get sometimes you can try and be the "bigger man" and just say "well I disagree but ok!"
That's exactly, what most people are doing here. For good reason, if i might add. My arguments have all been made here by others, so there's no reason me for me to repeat them, but I definetely cannot resist the urge to state, that it actually DOES matter, whether you believe in some kind of creator or not, because it reflects your cognitive capabilities and their boundaries. We shall not judge others based on their belief? Sorry, but if I try to get an idea of someone, I try to take everything into account, I know about that specific person. Though - of course - that "judgement" remains alterable.
Religious debates on internetforums lead nowhere? You ever had a religious debate in real life, that went anywhere? In fact, if we shied any debate, that will probably not result in a consensus, there would be few left to talk about, apart from typical gossip issues. I admit though, that the religious debate is one with hardened discussionfronts. In fact, it's hard to say, whether a discussion "went anywhere" in terms of effecting someones way of looking at things. I think religion and especially critisism of it is too much of a taboo in western countries, especially the USA. We act like it's a matter of personal taste, although it's from great relevance to society and human coexistence. We're quick at judging islamic fundamentalists and those, who we mistakenly think to be some, but shy away from any debate, concerning our own religion. That's what I call hypocratical. It is questionable though, whether that debate belongs on this forum in general and/or this thread expecially.
I think religious debates are more about understanding different people different view points and how they make sense of things rather than strictly being about religion. Well that's what I've gathered from about 5 years of internet forum crusing anyway
Edit: This is an American pageant, so you can expect that if she sides with the rightwing on an issue, she is safe. American conservatives are generally more outspoken. Donald Trump, Republican owner of Miss Universe Organization, defended Carrie Prejean when she expressed her beliefs that gays shouldn't be able to marry each other. Sure, she'll get flack from some of the public for stating her opinion on a controversial issue, but ultimately it comes down to the people who are in charge.
I don't see any pageant judges that are biologists. Also, most Americans are less certain and less passionate about the evolution/creation debate than they are about homosexuality debate. So, stating that you're a creationist is safe in America, and will be safe in this pageant.
She can also try to verbally sidestep this issue as best as she can.
On June 13 2011 11:02 Phenny wrote: Did she actually say ID should be taught or just that she believes in it?
Just checked twitter Anna Prosser Evolution: I believe in intelligent design, the separation of church & state, & the responsibility of every individual to search for truth.
Unless she said elsewhere that it has a place in schools I don't see a problem with this at all, despite the fact I strongly disagree with ID.
Yeah, she said she thinks both should be taught in schools in this video:
It's somewhat silly that this thread has gotten so derailed. This thread was meant to be a means in which we can show support for someone who has dedicated time to this community. Instead, everyone has taken it upon themselves to judge whether or not she deserves your vote, and share it in whatever fashion they deem fit.
How about instead of derailing this thread more, those who wish to argue religion move somewhere else and those who still want to offer support stay?
I don't know!! Pretty absurd idea. On a more related note, GO ANNA! You have my vote!
The one, singular positive thread on TL to support a community member in a contest of some sort, and some of you have to go ruin it for the rest of us with your religious debate bullshit.
Aren't there enough threads about those already?
So what if Anna believes in bullshit like ID? I'm still going to vote another 10 times.
On June 13 2011 06:08 iNcontroL wrote: the great destroyer of TL
The Religious Debate!!!
Go find a thread that isn't absolutely ruined by a bunch of people going over and over and over the most beaten dead horse on the planet.
Mindless defense from the white knight. This thread is the place to comment on Ms. Anna Prosser, sir. That's the subject at hand, and you're gonna have to deal with the fact that not everyone supports her. If she's dumb enough to believe in ID, people will forever call her out on it around TL. (in a thread devoted to her reputation, in a popularity contest, no less) As if any neck beard can resist such bait?
If it was a few years earlier, and someone you weren't dating, you'd probably be the first to make some not-quite-clever, sarcastic remark and expect nothing but praise for it. Gimme a break.
Oh come on man. The point Incontrol is making is that religion debates are stupid and get nowhere. It is absolutely true.
If we could keep the debate confined to ID in schools, it might be justified, otherwise it's just another useless flamewar thread derailment.
I think community members deserve a bit of recognition and support. If you don't want to because of what she said, thats your call. Personally I feel it is enough just to call her out on her statement.
On June 13 2011 11:32 TheRiotXL wrote: It's somewhat silly that this thread has gotten so derailed. This thread was meant to be a means in which we can show support for someone who has dedicated time to this community. Instead, everyone has taken it upon themselves to judge whether or not she deserves your vote, and share it in whatever fashion they deem fit.
How about instead of derailing this thread more, those who wish to argue religion move somewhere else and those who still want to offer support stay?
I don't know!! Pretty absurd idea. On a more related note, GO ANNA! You have my vote!
It's silly that Miss America Beauty Contest asks its contestants the really important questions at all. Do the viewers really care at the end?
Anyways, I do want to lend my support. She is a gamer, and in every video I've seen of her, she sounds like a nice person. If she wins, she'll definitely shoot up in TL popularity, what with all the dudes here
On June 13 2011 11:45 johanngrunt wrote: TL posters, seriously, don't do this again.
The one, singular positive thread on TL to support a community member in a contest of some sort, and some of you have to go ruin it for the rest of us with your religious debate bullshit.
Aren't there enough threads about those already?
So what if Anna believes in bullshit like ID? I'm still going to vote another 10 times.
Stop derailing this thread.
Yeh it's not gunna stop me from voting for her either, but that's not to say that debating this is bad so long as it doesn't deteriorate into a shitfest, which I guess it probably will.
EPT
) or thinks the earth is a disc riding on a giant turtle. She doesn't have to be the best person in the world or an human idol without any faults.![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/6eh2D.png)
