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Don't post in this thread to say "gay gamers are like everyone else, why do they have a special thread?" It is something that has been posted numerous times, and this isn't the place for that discussion.
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On October 31 2011 07:22 purgerinho wrote:I just think gay people are closed in themselves for many years (mostly they 'come out' around age of 18) and after they admit to the everyone that they are gay they need to compensate all those years they were 'inside'. That is the reason of gay prides in communities where gay people have everything (most of the cities in US, Canada, Holland...), there aren't other reasons than show off because they have all the rights they can have as human beings + extras because they are gay. In my country gay prides are still protests and that culture is very young but because of militant gay guys and girls people don't like them. I'm in all of that and sometimes I have a feeling most of that gay acitivsts are heterofobs and I'm serious about it. They just feel insulted about everything, sometimes I can't belive what they are talking. example: they are offended because children have fairytales with prince and princss, they think that there should be tales about prince and prince so kids could learn about gay people from early age etc. Because of all of that things there is a need to separate themselves. Gay olympics, gay orchestra - i can't see a reason for that and i'm against such a separation because I know what would happen if there would be straight only things. I can see reasons for gay bars or this type of threads because there were threads about girsl that play starcraft and that is just a same thing and in gay bars gay people can meet each other without any problem. I hope some day world will work in a way that there would be no reason for gay people to scream how gay they are all the time and I hope being gay will stop be a way of life because sexuality is like skin color, we are born with it and it is our life, not our way of life, way of life is everything we do from ourselves. And I hope that some day gay people could walk with their partners everywhere in the world without any problem, without angry people watching them or hating them. and after this big thoughts some QUESTIONS  Why gay men love fem guys? I mean, they look like a girsl and being a gay guy is to love men, right? So, how can you be turn on by some guy that smells like a girl, have clothes like a girl, talk like a girl, act like a girl, have no body or facial hair. Why? Same Q I have for homosex women. They do it more than a gay guys. There is always some manly girl that is so unactrative, with short hair, without make up, having clothes of a man, talks like a man, acts like a man, doesn't care about looks
someone has some stereotypes and biases here. Not necessarily a bad thing, since at least you are open to discussion. I am going to leave the gay pride thing alone, I have learned that many people dont have the basis from which to have the sort of feelings that go into the pride, so cannot empathize. Not any fault of you mate, but of your upbringing and greater social construct you live in.
As for the questions, not all gay men love fem guys. And what is a "fem" guy anyway? I am told that I am recognizably gay, but not effeminate. I wear mens clothing, wear men's shoes, mainly do activities socially befitting my gender, but yet, people can tell I am gay.
Femininity is a spectrum (just like sexuality) and most people fall somewhere in the middle. Sure, there are gay guys that like the pre-madonna highheels and scarf wearing gay guy with the super lisp and wrists that would limp in a cast. Some gay guys like the more masculine, muscled, hairy, strong, comforting man that wears jeans, tennis shoes, plays sports and is "normal". My personal preference is in the middle, varying from the athletic to the slightly feminine. Everyone is very, very different and likes different things in different people.
I am not a lesbian (being male), so I cannot vouch for them, but I imagine it is roughly the same 
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On October 31 2011 05:08 floi wrote:any queer people around who wouldn't consider themselves to be 'male' (as a binary category of gender) ? 
I once had a crush on a female to male, it was kind of weird to think about. Me personally, I wish I were more androgynous, and I like androgynous features in other guys, but I still consider myself to be binary male (though I don't view gender as binary)
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On October 31 2011 07:22 purgerinho wrote:
I just think gay people are closed in themselves for many years (mostly they 'come out' around age of 18) and after they admit to the everyone that they are gay they need to compensate all those years they were 'inside'. That is the reason of gay prides in communities where gay people have everything (most of the cities in US, Canada, Holland...), there aren't other reasons than show off because they have all the rights they can have as human beings + extras because they are gay. In my country gay prides are still protests and that culture is very young but because of militant gay guys and girls people don't like them. I'm in all of that and sometimes I have a feeling most of that gay acitivsts are heterofobs and I'm serious about it.
I'm doubtful about your compensation argument, but I do have some experience with the difference of pride marches / parades around the world, because I have helped organizing a pride march in Jerusalem once. Coming from Europe that was definitely different and people had to fight for their right to just march and have speeches while other pride marches were huge parties (even in other big cities in Israel, such as Tel Aviv).
Sadly, the example of Tel Aviv also proves that the fact that some places are far more advanced when it comes to gay rights in general, does not necessarily mean that "people have everything" (there was a horrible shooting at a Tel Aviv gay bar not long ago).
But I think that there is more to this issue than what has been laid down and codified as "gay rights", because even in the communities that you classified as where "people have everything", there is so much stereotypes, stigma, discrimination and plain hatred that I sometimes feel is woven so deep into the very fabric of society that it's gonna take a lot of struggling before the goal of people having everything will be achieved.
They just feel insulted about everything, sometimes I can't belive what they are talking.
example: they are offended because children have fairytales with prince and princss, they think that there should be tales about prince and prince so kids could learn about gay people from early age etc.
Honestly, I don't feel insulted about many of these things, because I don't consider myself gay, but I do think that the central assumption of our culture of there being man and woman (created by god or whatever) who should get together and procreate is wrong at best.
I also think that deviation from the norm is at the core of many of the problems I mentioned above. And I believe that these norms are constructed in many different and complicated ways which include fairytales and stories, and television, pop culture, advertising etc. etc.
I'm tired and I'm afraid that people might not understand what I'm saying so here is the summary:
I don't want people to accept deviation from the norm, I basically want the norm to be broken and smashed to pieces, so that everybody can be and live the way they want to.
[leaving out the separation part for now]
I hope some day world will work in a way that there would be no reason for gay people to scream how gay they are all the time and I hope being gay will stop be a way of life because sexuality is like skin color, we are born with it and it is our life, not our way of life, way of life is everything we do from ourselves.
I honestly don't believe that being gay is truly genetic, because I'm VERY sceptical (to say the least) about the current hype about finding the corresponding gene for every type of human behavior we can think of. Most of it isn't true when it comes to alleged gender differences and I don't believe it's more useful for other differences.
And I hope that some day gay people could walk with their partners everywhere in the world without any problem, without angry people watching them or hating them. couldn't agree more.
but I still consider myself to be binary male (though I don't view gender as binary)
wow, I didn't get that at all... can you please explain? o:
That's it for now, hope this wasn't too confusing...
off to bed now~
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@floi
I meant that I see myself as fitting the binary gender stereotype of male, but don't subscribe to the male/female dichotomy of gender.
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Just came back after some months of inactivty,
glad to see that this thread is still up
<33
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On October 31 2011 20:09 vTv.Marine wrote:
Just came back after some months of inactivty,
glad to see that this thread is still up
<33
On October 31 2011 02:29 jarrydesque wrote:vTv.Marine. Click here for a post introducing himself and to get in touch. Welcome 
Speak of the devil!
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On October 31 2011 10:00 floi wrote:some places are far more advanced when it comes to gay rights in general, does not necessarily mean that "people have everything" (there was a horrible shooting at a Tel Aviv gay bar not long ago).
But I think that there is more to this issue than what has been laid down and codified as "gay rights", because even in the communities that you classified as where "people have everything", there is so much stereotypes, stigma, discrimination and plain hatred that I sometimes feel is woven so deep into the very fabric of society that it's gonna take a lot of struggling before the goal of people having everything will be achieved.
but there is hate everywhere about everything. Racism or sovinism are big problem even in Holland or Sweden but those countries are very open minded. Like UK etc. I'm talking about basic rights in the law not about the people because there will be always some sick fak that will shoot at gays, african/asian folks, women... But they will be punished for their crimes and that is a good thing.
and when I was talking about the thing they get easily offended it was about gay activists here in Croatia. They are too militant and they like to act that situation is worse than it is. Because of that they like to provocate in any way. Sometimes that is funny (at least to me) but sometimes it is not. Here we have very sensitive society when politics came in question so (except this last pride in Zagreb (11th) that was great) they love to provocate with communism ex Yugoslavia etc. People are angry when they see something like that and they would be angry if anybody would march with red stars, pictures of tito, three fingers in the air or starting speeches with comrads (like in Split this year where were big riots at the pride).
Imagine pride in New York where participants disrespect USA, where you have guests from Mexico that provocate Americans with things they are sensitive at. That is not what Pride should be and that is a problem here. Except this year in Zagreb, there was nothing except gay messages.
[B]someone has some stereotypes and biases here. Not necessarily a bad thing, since at least you are open to discussion. I am going to leave the gay pride thing alone, I have learned that many people dont have the basis from which to have the sort of feelings that go into the pride, so cannot empathize. Not any fault of you mate, but of your upbringing and greater social construct you live in.
i'm too involved in prides almost ten years and i met so many gay people in my life that i can't even say a number. I asked questions like i'm asking here millions of times, I just wanted to hear from foreigners how they think about it because you are from different culture and gay people are in different position there so you like to talk more about everything. So, everything I say is based from that I know and people I met. I just know that every gay person involved in a pride (here in CRO or Serbia) talks about their rights and as example of great gay society they will mention big cities in USA, Canada, Holland, Germany, Spain, France... And they are saying that prides are parties there, that is great, that there are millions of participants etc.
So, I asked many times: gold is to have rights and to party after that every year?
That question makes them angry because here we know how many people have bigger problems than gay population (gay population is among those people with problems), there aren't basic rights for some parts of society. Even Amnesty International says gay rights in Croatia aren't in top3 problems here (social rights, workers' rights and same economy rights to everybody are top3).
We had major antigovernment protests in Croatia back in february and whole march. Police locked us up, they allowed protests only at some places, they were brutal etc. Gay activists weren't at that protests (they were as individuals but only their associations refused to give public support to the gold because they calculate - they ned money from government and they can't be against it), but they expected all of us to give them all the support they need. And they got it from media (i was working in the biggest media in CRO last 5 yrs so I know how many negative articles they had about protests), police, government, everyone. So, when Croats fights for their basic rights (that includes gay people too because they need their job, pay, freedom of speech as all of us) gay activits are saying: it's not our business. But it should be our business when they are protesting, even if we all know that they have no problems with media, police or government, their pride is funded from city where pride is and from government etc. So, I feel there is some gap and separation from both sides.
I just wanted to say this: it is great to party but it is not so great to party at places where are homeless people and people without basic rights. And that kind of problems are in whole world. There shoud be priorities. Money from gay prides could be spent for greater cause. But it is just my opinion, I'm always attacked because of it so I'm used to it, i know that all of the groupations mostly watch for themselves. So, I will be for Prides in Croatia every time (I will critise every fak with offensive political messages) but I will stop support them when they achive their gold: marriages and laws against those who hates them just because they are different. But I will not support their gold to get a law in which they will be recognized like national minorities, that is absurde because there are already gay people among minorities and sexuality is not nationality. When they will made their golds (basic rights that all of us have) I will switch, I will not be involved in prides anymore because I don't like to party when I know that money or support should be somewhere else.
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On October 31 2011 07:22 purgerinho wrote:
example: they are offended because children have fairytales with prince and princss, they think that there should be tales about prince and prince so kids could learn about gay people from early age etc.
Hmm, there may be a select group of the LGBT community that are offended by this sort of thing, but I think the overwhelming majority are not. Maybe it would be healthy for young kids to learn about gay couples existing, but to actually get offended is a gross overreaction. Clearly such people are the vocal ones, but I must admit I haven't really heard anyone get offended by this sort of thing (other than in jest).
To take it to the other extreme though, on a topic I feel very passionately about, is discussing homosexuality in sex education. In my school, not once was homosexuality even mentioned, and it's not like at that age of ~12 I would be willing to go up to the teacher and ask! Everything was focused on how men will have feelings for women, and vice versa. All I wanted at that age was someone to say that it was ok to have feelings for someone of the same sex, that's all I wanted.
Anyway I know the above was unrelated to your point, but I guess what I'm getting at is that there are times when you simply have to teach kids about homosexuality. When, and in what environment, is entirely up for debate.
On October 31 2011 07:22 purgerinho wrote:
Because of all of that things there is a need to separate themselves. Gay olympics, gay orchestra - i can't see a reason for that and i'm against such a separation because I know what would happen if there would be straight only things. I can see reasons for gay bars or this type of threads because there were threads about girsl that play starcraft and that is just a same thing and in gay bars gay people can meet each other without any problem.
Again, I'm not convinced anyone would really want to take it that far. It's nice to talk to gay people, simply because you have something in common, but clearly a total segregation of the gay community from the straight community is seriously unhealthy.
On October 31 2011 07:22 purgerinho wrote:
I hope some day world will work in a way that there would be no reason for gay people to scream how gay they are all the time and I hope being gay will stop be a way of life because sexuality is like skin color, we are born with it and it is our life, not our way of life, way of life is everything we do from ourselves. And I hope that some day gay people could walk with their partners everywhere in the world without any problem, without angry people watching them or hating them.
Indeed.
On October 31 2011 07:22 purgerinho wrote:
Why gay men love fem guys? I mean, they look like a girsl and being a gay guy is to love men, right? So, how can you be turn on by some guy that smells like a girl, have clothes like a girl, talk like a girl, act like a girl, have no body or facial hair. Why? Same Q I have for homosex women. They do it more than a gay guys. There is always some manly girl that is so unactrative, with short hair, without make up, having clothes of a man, talks like a man, acts like a man, doesn't care about looks
I do not like any of these qualities. Obviously a well dressed guy looks better than someone who isn't, but it would have to be a well dressed as a man. I can't stand camp, it is a complete turn off in all its forms. Facial hair is really a different issue, I know girls who love it and hate it, it really implies nothing about the effeminacy of the guy.
There are some who like effeminate guys, but don't make the assumption that the entire gay community like that. Furthermore, don't make the assumption that the gay community does act like that. Yes some do, and they are the ones people notice, but the majority of us behave "normally" and I doubt you'd be able to tell we're gay.
Equally though if people want to be camp then let them, it doesn't bother me, just don't expect me to hit on you :p
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On October 31 2011 23:15 Morgan141 wrote:
To take it to the other extreme though, on a topic I feel very passionately about, is discussing homosexuality in sex education. In my school, not once was homosexuality even mentioned, and it's not like at that age of ~12 I would be willing to go up to the teacher and ask! Everything was focused on how men will have feelings for women, and vice versa. All I wanted at that age was someone to say that it was ok to have feelings for someone of the same sex, that's all I wanted.
Just wanted to address this point, as I'm not sure when you went to school, but in my school they actually did briefly cover "and some people like others of the same sex and they should also take care". I learnt later that they were walking a very fine as they're apparently not allowed to "endorse" homosexuality, but it's clear to me as an adult that there must be at least some school's trying to educate as far as they're allowed. That was 10 or so years ago though so maybe things have gotten better/worse I don't know.
+ Show Spoiler [On topic Story] +So yeah, the other thing they did was try to explain that homosexuality wasn't some tiny outcast minority that should be looked down on by explaining the statistics and that if our group in the class room followed the stats there would be 1 or 2 of our friends who might be gay. No one seemed particularly phased by that but what followed was the most idiotic thing I've ever said - "But statistics only provide a chance, it could still be that no one here is like that". I was such a socially stupid kid at times, I took it as a mathematical challenge and it was only as I grew up I realised how bad that could have been if there was someone gay in our class. So yeah, that's unquestionably the most stupid thing I've ever said. Accurate, but stupid. 
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On November 01 2011 00:24 Iyerbeth wrote:Show nested quote +On October 31 2011 23:15 Morgan141 wrote:
To take it to the other extreme though, on a topic I feel very passionately about, is discussing homosexuality in sex education. In my school, not once was homosexuality even mentioned, and it's not like at that age of ~12 I would be willing to go up to the teacher and ask! Everything was focused on how men will have feelings for women, and vice versa. All I wanted at that age was someone to say that it was ok to have feelings for someone of the same sex, that's all I wanted. Just wanted to address this point, as I'm not sure when you went to school, but in my school they actually did briefly cover "and some people like others of the same sex and they should also take care". I learnt later that they were walking a very fine as they're apparently not allowed to "endorse" homosexuality, but it's clear to me as an adult that there must be at least some school's trying to educate as far as they're allowed. That was 10 or so years ago though so maybe things have gotten better/worse I don't know. + Show Spoiler [On topic Story] +So yeah, the other thing they did was try to explain that homosexuality wasn't some tiny outcast minority that should be looked down on by explaining the statistics and that if our group in the class room followed the stats there would be 1 or 2 of our friends who might be gay. No one seemed particularly phased by that but what followed was the most idiotic thing I've ever said - "But statistics only provide a chance, it could still be that no one here is like that". I was such a socially stupid kid at times, I took it as a mathematical challenge and it was only as I grew up I realised how bad that could have been if there was someone gay in our class. So yeah, that's unquestionably the most stupid thing I've ever said. Accurate, but stupid.
It was around the same time. I'm 21, and at no stage in my sex education was homosexuality even mentioned.
I'm glad your school was more liberal with such things, because I think it would have made a massive difference. I'm not asking for "promoting" homosexuality (although I don't really understand how you can "promote" sexual preferences, but hey ho), I just wanted someone to condone it.
People may say being gay is not a big deal anymore, which is arguably true for adults in the UK, but it is a massive deal for kids. There was (is?) literally no one to talk to about what you're feeling. Your teacher is telling you what you should feel and you just don't, your peers would eat you alive if you came out as gay and you would never talk to your parents about this sort of thing.
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On October 31 2011 23:15 Morgan141 wrote:
To take it to the other extreme though, on a topic I feel very passionately about, is discussing homosexuality in sex education. In my school, not once was homosexuality even mentioned, and it's not like at that age of ~12 I would be willing to go up to the teacher and ask! Everything was focused on how men will have feelings for women, and vice versa. All I wanted at that age was someone to say that it was ok to have feelings for someone of the same sex, that's all I wanted.
Most likely because there would be a public outcry of the muslims, catholics (you know, the usual suspects) and no school would want such problems so as to not get sued etc.
It's a wonderful world we live in.
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homosexuality was mentioned in my education, but with a derisive sneer and only once, when I was 13 or so.
If the catholics and the muslims can have their lawsuits, I want mine. I want a class action lawsuit about not educating gay youth about themselves and their sexuality. It is irresponsible to say the least and can be extremely harmful to the sexual development of a minority group.
Okay, so I don't actually think that, but it does seem odd that we are throwing no establishment out the window in certain cases and looking completely the other way.
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Too much serious gay in this thread and not enough silly gay. Commence the silly Halloween party costumes you all wore!
+ Show Spoiler +
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On November 01 2011 00:43 Psychobabas wrote:Show nested quote +On October 31 2011 23:15 Morgan141 wrote:
To take it to the other extreme though, on a topic I feel very passionately about, is discussing homosexuality in sex education. In my school, not once was homosexuality even mentioned, and it's not like at that age of ~12 I would be willing to go up to the teacher and ask! Everything was focused on how men will have feelings for women, and vice versa. All I wanted at that age was someone to say that it was ok to have feelings for someone of the same sex, that's all I wanted.
Most likely because there would be a public outcry of the muslims, catholics (you know, the usual suspects) and no school would want such problems so as to not get sued etc. It's a wonderful world we live in.
If it helped a generation of LGBT children come to terms with their sexuality then it would be worth it.
It's the only time I've felt seriously hard done by as a gay guy. How schools can do this to generation after generation of kids is unbelievable.
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On November 01 2011 01:31 Morgan141 wrote:Show nested quote +On November 01 2011 00:43 Psychobabas wrote:On October 31 2011 23:15 Morgan141 wrote:
To take it to the other extreme though, on a topic I feel very passionately about, is discussing homosexuality in sex education. In my school, not once was homosexuality even mentioned, and it's not like at that age of ~12 I would be willing to go up to the teacher and ask! Everything was focused on how men will have feelings for women, and vice versa. All I wanted at that age was someone to say that it was ok to have feelings for someone of the same sex, that's all I wanted.
Most likely because there would be a public outcry of the muslims, catholics (you know, the usual suspects) and no school would want such problems so as to not get sued etc. It's a wonderful world we live in. If it helped a generation of LGBT children come to terms with their sexuality then it would be worth it. It's the only time I've felt seriously hard done by as a gay guy. How schools can do this to generation after generation of kids is unbelievable.
Its got better in the UK after the repel of section 28, which basically made promotion of homosexuality in the classroom verboten.
It was odd, because I remember learning about Homosexuality at some point, but I agree, it would have been nice to have been told that "I'm okay".
The majority of what I learnt about being gay at an early age was from my school friends, and all of it was negative.
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On August 27 2010 21:25 Mora wrote:Show nested quote +On August 27 2010 21:15 ironchef wrote:
Interesting, is that common for gays to be turned off by hetero porn? I always assumed the disgust for gay porn was mostly learned from society, so I didnt imagine the reverse would hold. hmm.. I think at the start it is. Most of us try REALLY hard to be straight cause we're so terrified of being gay. Ultimately, if you're a guy and you're not disgusted by pussy, you're straight. Bisexual men are a little different. I've met ones who are bothered by their attraction to men for a lot longer than gay guys are. Gays are forced to deal with it one way or another. Bisexual men can often have 'normal lives', getting married, having children, etc, without ever understanding or coming to terms with their bisexuality. Though that is less and less the case these days. The older i get, the less disgusted i am by women. In fact, i watch straight porn about 80% of the time. I dunno, there's nothing quite so masculine as a man fucking nailing some chick. I like the triple pen kind of stuff. lol
lol now thats soem BS
Ive been in some pretty fucking nasty pussy. Pussy is pretty fucking odd when you get (down) to it.
its liek dick ... i doubt a lass wants a yellow cheese crusted member.
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Mora would you ever consider being operated on to have girl body parts? I've noticed there's people who instead of being gay would rather just change their sex, what do you think about that? Would you ever consider it? Any other gay person can answer this too, I'm just very curious.
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On November 01 2011 03:41 MrNastyTime wrote:
Mora would you ever consider being operated on to have girl body parts? I've noticed there's people who instead of being gay would rather just change their sex, what do you think about that? Would you ever consider it? Any other gay person can answer this too, I'm just very curious.
I can't speak for everyone but no.
I am comfortable with my gender identity, I just happen to be attracted to other males. I consider myself male, and frankly the idea that someone who identifies as that gender (say male) would wish to transition to another gender that they don't associate with themselves, so that they're not classed as gay, seems very odd to me. So no, I would never ever consider it, I actually find the idea of being a gender other than what I define with abhorrent - though I have heard (unfortunately :/) than Iran (when they don't kill them) makes homosexuals have sex changes to "cure them" instead.
That's not to say that there aren't people who don't define with a gender or consider themselves to have a different gender than the one they're born with - but that's a completely seperate thing to being gay (gender identity vs sexual orientation) and I can't see any cis-gendered gay people considering a sex change.
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On November 01 2011 01:27 jarrydesque wrote:Too much serious gay in this thread and not enough silly gay. Commence the silly Halloween party costumes you all wore! + Show Spoiler +
cute.
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EPT![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/vlfRO.jpg)
