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Please remember that while this thread is for QQ and venting about the game, racism is not tolerated here on LD. |
On May 19 2015 22:57 DinoMight wrote:I stopped playing Dota and went back to SC2. It's so nice to win or lose based on your own skill level. I wish that were possible in Dota because sometimes I do enjoy Dota 
The eternal dilemma
SC2: Depend all on yourself, no one to drag you down, less random shit that happens.............And then when you lose, you have no one to blame but yourself, huge mental stress.
Dota: Don't have to depend all on yourself, plenty of avenues to blame when you lost, more variety to a certain extent................but you have all those fucking games with retarded inbred bitches on your team.
There is no middle ground
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It feels wrong not to point out that a good player would win literally >99% of games at DinoMight's MMR which means that really, every game is your fault.
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The only common factor in every game you lose is you.
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On May 20 2015 03:14 Sn0_Man wrote:
It feels wrong not to point out that a good player would win literally >99% of games at DinoMight's MMR which means that really, every game is your fault.
On May 20 2015 03:17 Plansix wrote:
The only common factor in every game you lose is you.
That's so untrue.
Every game I play has some idiot that keeps YOLOing at their team and getting himself killed.
Short of playing Chen, following around, and sending him back to the fountain every time he's about to feed, there is literally NOTHING you can do about that.
Last game I played I died twice out of 30+ kills on their team. What the fuck am I supposed to do if by the time I get my 9-10 mins Boots of Travel as Tinker my team has already fed 15 kills???
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The thing is, it isn't untrue. It's fact.
No amount of feeding is enough to help 2K players to beat even just one competent dota player.
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On May 20 2015 03:10 xAdra wrote:Show nested quote +On May 19 2015 22:57 DinoMight wrote:I stopped playing Dota and went back to SC2. It's so nice to win or lose based on your own skill level. I wish that were possible in Dota because sometimes I do enjoy Dota The eternal dilemma SC2: Depend all on yourself, no one to drag you down, less random shit that happens.............And then when you lose, you have no one to blame but yourself, huge mental stress. Dota: Don't have to depend all on yourself, plenty of avenues to blame when you lost, more variety to a certain extent................but you have all those fucking games with retarded inbred bitches on your team. There is no middle ground
YUP.
Right now the pendulum is swinging towards SC2. Because no matter how hard I try, there is always some retard playing a dumb fucking hero who thinks he's invincible and keeps charging into their team even as we yell at him not to.
Or how about people who play ranked games and just mute everyone from the start? How are you supposed to play a 5v5 team game with them?
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On May 20 2015 03:27 DinoMight wrote:Show nested quote +On May 20 2015 03:14 Sn0_Man wrote:
It feels wrong not to point out that a good player would win literally >99% of games at DinoMight's MMR which means that really, every game is your fault. Show nested quote +On May 20 2015 03:17 Plansix wrote:
The only common factor in every game you lose is you. That's so untrue. Every game I play has some idiot that keeps YOLOing at their team and getting himself killed. Short of playing Chen, following around, and sending him back to the fountain every time he's about to feed, there is literally NOTHING you can do about that. Last game I played I died twice out of 30+ kills on their team. What the fuck am I supposed to do if by the time I get my 9-10 mins Boots of Travel as Tinker my team has already fed 15 kills???
I've played on accounts around that rating, losing games is very difficult, it's like the enemy team is in full throw mode 100% of the time. How big a winstreak should I get on your account for you to be convinced?
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On May 20 2015 03:31 Sn0_Man wrote:
The thing is, it isn't untrue. It's fact.
No amount of feeding is enough to help 2K players to beat even just one competent dota player.
A fed Sniper can kill and entire team with his hands off the keyboard... I agree with you to an extent that a very skilled player could, but 3k?4K? I don't think so.
I've got a buddy who's ~5k that I play with sometimes and my Vengeful Spirit or Abaddon are certainly good enough to do the basic required things for us to win... 1) ward, 2) don't feed, 3) help with kills, 4) Save him when he's about to die.
The people I play with are unable to do the simplest things. Zero minimap awareness whatsoever. Zero game sense... absolutely no idea where it's okay for them to stand and where it's not.
I have teammates bitch that they should be safe because "they're under a tower" all the fucking time.
Literally no idea why I'm playing with these people.
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Just to be clear, people are saying that the "ability" to win any game is in your hand. It doesn't do anything to diminish the totally hopeless feeling you get when your team goes full throw and you don't have the skill or knowledge to pull it back.
But you are wrong that you can't win because of your team mates. Because players that are very good are able to get really long streaks of wins at low MMR and carry whole games themselves.
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On May 20 2015 03:32 DinoMight wrote:Show nested quote +On May 20 2015 03:10 xAdra wrote:On May 19 2015 22:57 DinoMight wrote:I stopped playing Dota and went back to SC2. It's so nice to win or lose based on your own skill level. I wish that were possible in Dota because sometimes I do enjoy Dota The eternal dilemma SC2: Depend all on yourself, no one to drag you down, less random shit that happens.............And then when you lose, you have no one to blame but yourself, huge mental stress. Dota: Don't have to depend all on yourself, plenty of avenues to blame when you lost, more variety to a certain extent................but you have all those fucking games with retarded inbred bitches on your team. There is no middle ground YUP. Right now the pendulum is swinging towards SC2. Because no matter how hard I try, there is always some retard playing a dumb fucking hero who thinks he's invincible and keeps charging into their team even as we yell at him not to. Or how about people who play ranked games and just mute everyone from the start? How are you supposed to play a 5v5 team game with them?
What I try to do is establish myself as the "leader" of my team by using mic and communicating with them. If you stay positive, they will most of the time listen to you if you play good aswell. Oddses are quite high they will also want to win, so if they see you doing well they will just follow your lead. It does not always work, but it will still increase your winrate by quite a big margin if you are actually a better player then the rest in your mmr.
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On May 20 2015 03:43 Plansix wrote:
Just to be clear, people are saying that the "ability" to win any game is in your hand. It doesn't do anything to diminish the totally hopeless feeling you get when your team goes full throw and you don't have the skill or knowledge to pull it back.
But you are wrong that you can't win because of your team mates. Because players that are very good are able to get really long streaks of wins at low MMR and carry whole games themselves.
I mean, I understand what you're saying but I'm just debating HOW much better than everyone you need to be in order to carry your team to victory despite massive feeding.
I'm 2.2k right now. How good do you think I need to be to carry a team of 4 other 2.2kers to victory with each lane feeding 5-7 kills in the first 15 minutes? Because that's how my games go...
I often find myself mid vs a 2.7-2.9k or so enemy mid and really I don't see any apparent difference in skill....
On May 20 2015 03:44 BigO wrote:Show nested quote +On May 20 2015 03:32 DinoMight wrote:On May 20 2015 03:10 xAdra wrote:On May 19 2015 22:57 DinoMight wrote:I stopped playing Dota and went back to SC2. It's so nice to win or lose based on your own skill level. I wish that were possible in Dota because sometimes I do enjoy Dota The eternal dilemma SC2: Depend all on yourself, no one to drag you down, less random shit that happens.............And then when you lose, you have no one to blame but yourself, huge mental stress. Dota: Don't have to depend all on yourself, plenty of avenues to blame when you lost, more variety to a certain extent................but you have all those fucking games with retarded inbred bitches on your team. There is no middle ground YUP. Right now the pendulum is swinging towards SC2. Because no matter how hard I try, there is always some retard playing a dumb fucking hero who thinks he's invincible and keeps charging into their team even as we yell at him not to. Or how about people who play ranked games and just mute everyone from the start? How are you supposed to play a 5v5 team game with them? What I try to do is establish myself as the "leader" of my team by using mic and communicating with them. If you stay positive, they will most of the time listen to you if you play good aswell. Oddses are quite high they will also want to win, so if they see you doing well they will just follow your lead. It does not always work, but it will still increase your winrate by quite a big margin if you are actually a better player then the rest in your mmr.
That's basically what I try to do every game. Some people mute you, some people don't want to listen to what you're saying, and some people DONT SPEAK FUCKING ENGLISH. On the English server.
Sure I get the occasional game where everyone is super cooperative and we have a great game (and I add those people to play with again later) but for the most part it's impossible.
Honestly, my mechanics are pretty solid coming from Diamond/Masters SC2 play, Dota is pretty easy. But what I'm not as good at is game knowledge. At 2.2k though you can basically just spam all your abilities with any hero and if you don't feed to much you can win.
This basic task seems very hard to accomplish. I've played with Faceless Voids that don't land a single Chronosphere in an entire game.... Like even if the dude was missing 4 of his fingers it should be simple enough to blink in and press "R".
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I am with you in the same boat. But you can't get any better or win more games if you assume there is nothing you can do, because there is. I have lost plenty of games where I played very well, but not good enough to pull it through.
Also, the better you do, the more people follow and listen to you. Its easier to lead if you are making the plays.
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On May 20 2015 03:59 Plansix wrote:
I am with you in the same boat. But you can't get any better or win more games if you assume there is nothing you can do, because there is. I have lost plenty of games where I played very well, but not good enough to pull it through.
Also, the better you do, the more people follow and listen to you. Its easier to lead if you are making the plays.
I mean, sure I know I can farm more efficiently, gank better, lead better, use space better, etc.
It's just really depressing to feel like you're playing really well and still have the game completely out of reach because one guy on your team has his head on backwards or just doesn't speak english.
I'll probably go back to Dota later this week and give it another shot, but I was just getting really frustrated with the game lately so needed a break.
Also one of my best heroes is Vengeful Spirit and in pubs there is rarely anyone worth saving lol. So I'm learning to play more carries because I guess it's easier to carry a game when your hero has more presence/impact.
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Northern Ireland22208 Posts
even i played on a friend's 2k account and went 22-2 (the two games i lost were both games where i went safelane farmer and the other lanes got out of control)
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On May 20 2015 04:04 DinoMight wrote:Show nested quote +On May 20 2015 03:59 Plansix wrote:
I am with you in the same boat. But you can't get any better or win more games if you assume there is nothing you can do, because there is. I have lost plenty of games where I played very well, but not good enough to pull it through.
Also, the better you do, the more people follow and listen to you. Its easier to lead if you are making the plays. I mean, sure I know I can farm more efficiently, gank better, lead better, use space better, etc. It's just really depressing to feel like you're playing really well and still have the game completely out of reach because one guy on your team has his head on backwards or just doesn't speak english. I'll probably go back to Dota later this week and give it another shot, but I was just getting really frustrated with the game lately so needed a break. Also one of my best heroes is Vengeful Spirit and in pubs there is rarely anyone worth saving lol. So I'm learning to play more carries because I guess it's easier to carry a game when your hero has more presence/impact.
Playing carry in pubs is a trap I feel especially if it's something taht requires a lot of farm to come online and/or is shit in lane as let me tell you oubs supports are generally fucking garbage. Just recently was playing spectre and had a guy supporting me as sk vs a DK Huskar Lane. Sandstormed lane and proceeded to spend half his time fucking off in jungle so I get barely any lhs. He proceeds to get pissed that I took some of his stacks to make up for my shitty lane and fucked off in jungle. Only reason we won was because the enemy fed me and at 30-40 minutes into the game he actually came out of the jungle for more than 30 seconds. And that was a good game. Other times you get supports who proceed to take every single lane of creeps thats pushed close to your base even when your right next to it and yell at you for no farm.
Learning more mid heroes seems more relaible as while a fed Nyx or Viper isnt as deadly as farmed as fuck Spectre or AM its much easier to get to that point as you generally are relying on yourself in teh mid lane rather than dipshit teammates to support you in lane.
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If we're talking an MMR discrepancy of like 1k between where you are and where you "should be", you should be able to "carry" pretty much regardless of hero. If it's equal skill and your teammates feed, sure you're fucked... but that's equal skill. Even in my own play at 4k I suicide like a retard, make poor decisions, just straight don't use skills, miss cs, completely fail to respond to ganks... I don't have to look hard to see obvious shit I did wrong in any given game, I don't see how someone can feel like they're 500+ mmr better than they currently are and not just blame the fuck out of themselves every game.
Like... recent loss. I'm Luna, have ~115 cs at around 20 minutes, can be left alone with their weaver and have basically no fear of dying... but elsewhere on the map we've got a 0/9 lone druid that the supports are rotating to try help, and dying in the process. So what do I do? Continue to not have a TP, spam lucent beam on the weaver so I don't have tp + eclipse mana, and don't respond to teamfights. Looking back, obviously a shitty decision, but at the time it was like "Look guys I won my lane hahaha this weaver is barely level 6 oh shit we lost you guys suck". You can look at that as either I had pretty good cs and my team failed, or I had great cs and didn't use it, so we lost. Not to preach too much, but if you choose to focus on how good you are and how bad your teammates are, you can pretty much make every game look like you're the hero that couldn't shine bright enough, when the truth is more likely that the decisions you made were just as shitty as your skill level.
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I'm sure 115 cs at min 20 is ass as luna anyway
not flaming u just pointing out you could always be way higher if u didn't suck (I suck)
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My games right now are: totally dominate, maybe win maybe lose
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Team so awful I can't even come online before it's over
Definitely feels very much in my control
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On May 20 2015 04:57 FHDH wrote:
My games right now are: totally dominate, maybe win maybe lose
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Team so awful I can't even come online before it's over
Definitely feels very much in my control
As we stated before, how it feels and the reality of the game might be two different things. I get you though, some games feel unwinnable in the first 10 minutes. Even Notail agreed that those games feel horrible.
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On May 20 2015 04:55 Sn0_Man wrote:
I'm sure 115 cs at min 20 is ass as luna anyway
not flaming u just pointing out you could always be way higher if u didn't suck (I suck)
Isn't optimal farm something like 80 cs per 10 mins?
And yeah me being bad was kinda the point. Thx tho.
Checked ti4 replays, Sylar has 113/17 at 21 minutes as luna get rekt ez #crushed
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EPT
