Dota 2 QQ thread - Page 103

On August 10 2012 06:23 LeglessPuppy wrote:
How is building a heart of mirana 'building tank'? Have you never seen a heart build on TA, Naga, AM, Void, PA, Luna, or any other carry? The heart allows those carries that have an escape like mirana to leap out and get some quick health before coming back in (assuming people focus her).

cilinder why dont YOU try to show something otherwise? Notice I didn't say every carry outcarrys him, or that he is garbage. I said that most ranged carries outcarry him and then have a whole list of things that they bring to teamfights (which.... help for the carry to carry) and none of them are shut down by a gem or dust.

@Heh_ the same argument about playing vs someone with any tiny amount of common sense when it comes to playing vs a clinkz. Oh there is a clinkz on the enemy team? Buy a dust, a set of sentries or a gem and guess what, clinkz ganks do nothing against you and he cant stealth to avoid your stuns etc leading to free kills. It all depends on who is playing as the clinkz or mirana. If you get someone who blows his leap to try to avoid some auto attacks, you just need to realize it is down for another 30seconds so your trilane (if you are running one) has an easy kill. If you play vs a clinkz just drop a sentry and you are completely safe vs him (obviously you have to have common sense as well to not be like 'herp-derp mid is missing i should go and play aggressive').

If you play vs anyone with common sense then they should know what to do vs any carry you can bring out, which doesnt happen when you play with russians and brazillians in allpick (once again, I do not play AP. I only play CM with friends so we have a sense of a team already there).

On August 10 2012 00:50 LeglessPuppy wrote:


You had a Nyx Assassin on team... that is why you lost. He does nothing but gank, that is all he can do because you have to build so much int/mana on him.

Edit: That and you weren't fully built on clinkz who gets outcarried by almost every other ranged carry in the game

On August 10 2012 03:35 LeglessPuppy wrote:

Pretty much every carry I mentioned brings something to the team and will outcarry a clinkz (given obviously that there is a good teamcomp which the guy playing clinkz didnt have which is what you get in allpick).

On August 10 2012 04:16 LeglessPuppy wrote:
the most I got was around 600hp and 60damage from one of the jungle creeps (I believe it was one from the trio of the 2 red and 1 blue things).

On August 10 2012 05:48 LeglessPuppy wrote:
2) I don't play AP and refuse to because of the situations that happen in this thread. Nyx assassin? Only someone who doesnt realize how garbage he is would pick him.

On August 10 2012 06:38 SKC wrote:
You are arguing completelly diferent things. You looked at an endgame screenshot of a Clinkz with a BKB, orchid, buriza and MKB and basically said that the Clinkz get's outcarried, even with those items, by the likes of Furion, QoP, etc. Now you are arguing he is a shitty carry because you won't be able to reach that point in the game.

That is irrelevant. A farmed Clinkz is scary and can easily carry a game. That team didn't stop Clinkz from getting kills or farming, so you are arguing about something completelly irrelevant to the game at hand. He reached that point in the game.

Plus, I wasn't talking about low level -CM games or whatever you are talking about, I'm talking about broadcasted pro matches, where Clinkz was picked 70 times, OD only 34 times, Razor only 32 times, Drow Ranges only 24 times and Luna has only been picked 2 times, with 2 losses (she is far more recent to the game though). And yet you still believe those heroes are better, more versatile and easier to fit in a strategy than Clinkz.

http://dota-academy.com/herolist/

You should probally get in touch with some captains, they are clearly doing it wrong.

The biggest issue with OD is probally how useless he is against BKB.

On August 10 2012 06:51 LeglessPuppy wrote:
Clinkz: Picked 70 games. Won 28. 40% win rate

Drow Picked 24. Won 10 41.6666667% Win rate

Morphling: Picked 326. Won 164. ~50% win rate

OD Picked 34 Won 15 44% win rate


Am I doing this right? Just because a hero is picked more doesn't mean it is better. There are more ranged carries with more picks than Clinkz, all with higher win rates since you want to bring up just the amount of picks I brought up the wins. The only one that I mentioned that has a worse win rate that clinkz is viper.

As for the game posted, I wasn't comparing carries vs that clinkz. He did what he needed to do and wasn't full built (close but not full build unless he wanted that last spot open for aegis or whatnot. I CLEARLY put the reason he lost on the piece of shit Nyx in his game.

Anyone want to try to tell me about how Nyx is a good hero?

On August 10 2012 06:52 Canas wrote:


Actually, NA could've worked fine vs that team since they have two VERY soft targets with storm and rhasta that he can just go around pretty much instakilling once he hits level 7, but the guy was obviously a pretty bad player since he went bloodstone on NA and upgraded his dagon past level 1.



I SERIOUSLY fucking hope you're joking. Clinkz outcarries like half the heroes you listed, if not more, what you did was basically just list abilities of random heroes and then list clinkz's abilities, and without any reasoning just claimed that clinkz was worse than all of those heroes? Out of the heroes you listed, clinkz gets picked A LOT more than luna, razor, SF, viper, drow, weaver and OD in pro games, and there's probably a reason for that.

No offense or anything, but you're clearly not a very high level player, judging from this:



So you probably shouldn't try and make it sound like you are, especially since you just flat out ignore one of the most important parts of clinkz, which is tower pushing, as towers just MELT due to searing arrows (did you know searing arrows does damage to towers?) and strafe.



I'm sorry but now you're just being dumb, did you realize that people play this game to have fun, and that some people may enjoy playing that hero? On top of that, NA can pubstomp just fine. Get off your high horse.

On August 10 2012 08:23 Heh_ wrote:
Stop putting up vague answers. State EXACTLY what you mean. When you say almost every other ranged carry, state explicitly why. Your whole list is pure unadulterated junk and have already been debunked.

You persist in arguing your way through vague replies.

Clinkz is a situational hero. DUH. There's reasons to pick clinkz over other heroes, and they're not getting through to you.

TLDR: Your crappy points have been solidly debunked, and you've not added a single thing worth mentioning. Have fun winning TI2. Oh wait, you weren't invited.

On August 10 2012 07:35 LeglessPuppy wrote:


If you notice, I listed what the other carries bring to a teamfight with their abilities not just say "oh sniper has a ministun passive so he must be super powerful and can outcarry anyone in the game". Also, I brought up NOTHING on tower pushing since guess what, there are ranged heroes that do that better as well! (Luna & SF to name a couple). Want to know why they push towers faster? SF has Raze to melt the incoming creep wave while Luna has her glaives which allows her to not even have to switch targets to clear a wave.

Just because a hero is picked more in a pro game does not always mean that the pick was serious or a smart one. I have seen zenith pick Sniper, LGD pick Sven, I have seen alchemist picked. All 3 of them have heroes that do things much better at what they bring. Sniper? Look at most ranged carries. Sven? Look at most melee carries. Alchemist? Look at a different hero completely.

Nyx is still garbage even at level 7 when you roam and gank. Sure he can get kills, but aside from using all his mana in 1 combo (which is why he is terrible, you HAVE to build mana/mana regen on him or you run out of mana very quickly) what more does he bring? You can't right click and deal damage because you are building int to help with your mana issues. All he pretty much is is a weaker ursa. Ursa scales well until he hits a slow, nyx scales well until he fails to kill someone in 1 combo. People can have fun playing a terrible hero with a terrible build in bot games all they want. Why should they be allowed to ruin the gaming experience of the rest of their team because they decide to do an experimental build or whatever on the fly?

@SKC I looked at the record for the games that were won and lost and MANY of them clinkz was well under a positive KD. You cannot just take a win % without looking at what happened inside the game. Was there a 5man level 1 gank on a bottom trilane where clinkz gets 3 kills? Were there early teamfights that clinkz got some kills in that helped him out gold and expwise? How about the losses? What was used to stop him? We cannot know what happened in the game unless we go pull the replays/vods and watch them (which is rather a waste since almost every game is 40min+).

Have you not seen ANY of my posts? (regarding me supposedly not comparing clinkz to other carries) I brought up other ranged carries, what they bring to the team, if they have an escape, stuns, damage auras etc. I then stated exactly what clinkz does and apparently people lack the reading comprehension to know that I am talking about carrying better in the sense that Mirana brings great initiation to a teamfight, she can pick people off rather easy and escape for example. If you want to talk about just straight THIS GUY DOES MORE DAMAGE SO HE OBVIOUSLY CARRIES HARDER, then find someone else to talk to as that is not what I was talking about at all because of course clinkz does a shit ton of damage, he has the steroids for it, but aside from those, what does he bring to the team? Nothing.

On August 10 2012 07:35 LeglessPuppy wrote:


If you notice, I listed what the other carries bring to a teamfight with their abilities not just say "oh sniper has a ministun passive so he must be super powerful and can outcarry anyone in the game". Also, I brought up NOTHING on tower pushing since guess what, there are ranged heroes that do that better as well! (Luna & SF to name a couple). Want to know why they push towers faster? SF has Raze to melt the incoming creep wave while Luna has her glaives which allows her to not even have to switch targets to clear a wave.

Just because a hero is picked more in a pro game does not always mean that the pick was serious or a smart one. I have seen zenith pick Sniper, LGD pick Sven, I have seen alchemist picked. All 3 of them have heroes that do things much better at what they bring. Sniper? Look at most ranged carries. Sven? Look at most melee carries. Alchemist? Look at a different hero completely.

Nyx is still garbage even at level 7 when you roam and gank. Sure he can get kills, but aside from using all his mana in 1 combo (which is why he is terrible, you HAVE to build mana/mana regen on him or you run out of mana very quickly) what more does he bring? You can't right click and deal damage because you are building int to help with your mana issues. All he pretty much is is a weaker ursa. Ursa scales well until he hits a slow, nyx scales well until he fails to kill someone in 1 combo. People can have fun playing a terrible hero with a terrible build in bot games all they want. Why should they be allowed to ruin the gaming experience of the rest of their team because they decide to do an experimental build or whatever on the fly?

@SKC I looked at the record for the games that were won and lost and MANY of them clinkz was well under a positive KD. You cannot just take a win % without looking at what happened inside the game. Was there a 5man level 1 gank on a bottom trilane where clinkz gets 3 kills? Were there early teamfights that clinkz got some kills in that helped him out gold and expwise? How about the losses? What was used to stop him? We cannot know what happened in the game unless we go pull the replays/vods and watch them (which is rather a waste since almost every game is 40min+).

Have you not seen ANY of my posts? (regarding me supposedly not comparing clinkz to other carries) I brought up other ranged carries, what they bring to the team, if they have an escape, stuns, damage auras etc. I then stated exactly what clinkz does and apparently people lack the reading comprehension to know that I am talking about carrying better in the sense that Mirana brings great initiation to a teamfight, she can pick people off rather easy and escape for example. If you want to talk about just straight THIS GUY DOES MORE DAMAGE SO HE OBVIOUSLY CARRIES HARDER, then find someone else to talk to as that is not what I was talking about at all because of course clinkz does a shit ton of damage, he has the steroids for it, but aside from those, what does he bring to the team? Nothing.