EPTDota 2 QQ thread - Page 102
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Please remember that while this thread is for QQ and venting about the game, racism is not tolerated here on LD. | ||
Firebolt145
Lalalaland34503 Posts
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PassiveAce
United States18076 Posts
Am I gonna have to get the graph again? | ||
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LeglessPuppy
United States190 Posts
On August 09 2012 06:35 neurosx wrote: ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/41grt.jpg) I was clinkz, and yes I we lost it .. cba -_______________- You had a Nyx Assassin on team... that is why you lost. He does nothing but gank, that is all he can do because you have to build so much int/mana on him. Edit: That and you weren't fully built on clinkz who gets outcarried by almost every other ranged carry in the game | ||
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noobcakes
United States526 Posts
"LOW PRIORITY QUEUE" FUCK YOU. | ||
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Firebolt145
Lalalaland34503 Posts
Edit: That and you weren't fully built on clinkz who gets outcarried by almost every other ranged carry in the game Clinkz is outcarried by every other ranged carry in the game? News to me, especially with strafe + his ult. | ||
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ChrisXIV
Austria3553 Posts
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/x3hGP.png) When talking about who should go mid against Pudge I see this gem. Wtf? (I finished 14-2-16) | ||
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LeglessPuppy
United States190 Posts
On August 10 2012 01:54 Firebolt145 wrote: Clinkz is outcarried by every other ranged carry in the game? News to me, especially with strafe + his ult. Notice I did say ALMOST every other ranged carry in the game. Given that he needs outrageous farm to compete with other ranged carries such as TA and Luna or even a Mirana should be evidence enough. Clinkz only has strafe and his w to really do anything since his ult depends on him getting a good creep which doesnt always happen. Strafe helps a ton with the 110 attack speed and his ult gives pretty much a max of 60damage and 500-600hp. Who carries harder than him? Luna, TA, Morphling, Viper (yes, even viper), shadowfiend, razor, weaver, mirana, drow, OD, QoP, Invoker (if he builds like a carry), Furion (same as invoker). Luna: Long range stun, can push, has built in damage aura, very powerful ult. TA: Refraction + Meld, enough said. Morphling: I have never seen a morphling outcarried by a clinkz. Morph strength, you cant kill him. Morph Agility, be prepared to be shotgunned. Viper: Move and attack speed slows, built in slows on his passive, tons of poison damage to add to any DPS he gets by building like a carry (Why you would though idk). Shadowfiend: Raze. Ult. Enough said. Razor: can build like a tank and shut down any carry in the game with his leash. His ult is pretty damn powerful as well. Weaver: Most of his kit is built around being a better carry, and his ult is pretty much a free aegis. Mirana: Brings a HUGE stun to a fight, has an escape mechanic (which clinkz does as long as there is no gem/dust on the enemy team), free smoke with her ult to allow escapes or ganks. Drow: Built in 45 agility on her ult, ranged damage increase aura, huge area silence, frost arrows. OD: Built Int, ult, watch enemy team die. QoP: Can carry, can gank, what more do you need from her? Invoker: CAN build like a carry but I find it better if he has items like a force/sheep over something like a mkb or whatever. Furion: Sprout, farms EXTREMELY easy, can carry and counter push. What does clinkz do? Strafe for +110 attack speed for 4/6/8/10 seconds on a 60/50/40/30 second CD. Searing Arrows for bonus 50 damage per hit, which is nice. Skeleton Walk to run away or to go gank Ult for extra HP/Damage. Pretty much every carry I mentioned brings something to the team and will outcarry a clinkz (given obviously that there is a good teamcomp which the guy playing clinkz didnt have which is what you get in allpick). | ||
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rabidch
United States20289 Posts
On August 10 2012 03:35 LeglessPuppy wrote: Notice I did say ALMOST every other ranged carry in the game. Given that he needs outrageous farm to compete with other ranged carries such as TA and Luna or even a Mirana should be evidence enough. Clinkz only has strafe and his w to really do anything since his ult depends on him getting a good creep which doesnt always happen. Strafe helps a ton with the 110 attack speed and his ult gives pretty much a max of 60damage and 500-600hp. Who carries harder than him? Luna, TA, Morphling, Viper (yes, even viper), shadowfiend, razor, weaver, mirana, drow, OD, QoP, Invoker (if he builds like a carry), Furion (same as invoker). Luna: Long range stun, can push, has built in damage aura, very powerful ult. TA: Refraction + Meld, enough said. Morphling: I have never seen a morphling outcarried by a clinkz. Morph strength, you cant kill him. Morph Agility, be prepared to be shotgunned. Viper: Move and attack speed slows, built in slows on his passive, tons of poison damage to add to any DPS he gets by building like a carry (Why you would though idk). Shadowfiend: Raze. Ult. Enough said. Razor: can build like a tank and shut down any carry in the game with his leash. His ult is pretty damn powerful as well. Weaver: Most of his kit is built around being a better carry, and his ult is pretty much a free aegis. Mirana: Brings a HUGE stun to a fight, has an escape mechanic (which clinkz does as long as there is no gem/dust on the enemy team), free smoke with her ult to allow escapes or ganks. Drow: Built in 45 agility on her ult, ranged damage increase aura, huge area silence, frost arrows. OD: Built Int, ult, watch enemy team die. QoP: Can carry, can gank, what more do you need from her? Invoker: CAN build like a carry but I find it better if he has items like a force/sheep over something like a mkb or whatever. Furion: Sprout, farms EXTREMELY easy, can carry and counter push. What does clinkz do? Strafe for +110 attack speed for 4/6/8/10 seconds on a 60/50/40/30 second CD. Searing Arrows for bonus 50 damage per hit, which is nice. Skeleton Walk to run away or to go gank Ult for extra HP/Damage. Pretty much every carry I mentioned brings something to the team and will outcarry a clinkz (given obviously that there is a good teamcomp which the guy playing clinkz didnt have which is what you get in allpick). well just by looking at the numbers you dont know clinkz's abilities very well | ||
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Heh_
Singapore2712 Posts
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LeglessPuppy
United States190 Posts
Any competent team would realize when it is time to start running together/carry a gem or dust to kill clinkz. I guess playing CM with competent teams has spoiled me compared to what happens in allpick games where you have Clinkz Nyx AA Jugg and BH vs Slardar Storm Spirit Pudge Shadow Shaman and PA. IMO I find clinkz to be in the same league as a BH. He is good at what he does, which is be an assassin. He is NOT good at carrying a team like the many heroes I listed in my previous post. We can disagree all we want, but if clinkz is such a good carry, why is he rarely played beyond pubstomps? | ||
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cilinder007
Slovenia7251 Posts
On August 10 2012 03:35 LeglessPuppy wrote: Notice I did say ALMOST every other ranged carry in the game. Given that he needs outrageous farm to compete with other ranged carries such as TA and Luna or even a Mirana should be evidence enough. Clinkz only has strafe and his w to really do anything since his ult depends on him getting a good creep which doesnt always happen. Strafe helps a ton with the 110 attack speed and his ult gives pretty much a max of 60damage and 500-600hp. Who carries harder than him? Luna, TA, Morphling, Viper (yes, even viper), shadowfiend, razor, weaver, mirana, drow, OD, QoP, Invoker (if he builds like a carry), Furion (same as invoker). Luna: Long range stun, can push, has built in damage aura, very powerful ult. TA: Refraction + Meld, enough said. Morphling: I have never seen a morphling outcarried by a clinkz. Morph strength, you cant kill him. Morph Agility, be prepared to be shotgunned. Viper: Move and attack speed slows, built in slows on his passive, tons of poison damage to add to any DPS he gets by building like a carry (Why you would though idk). Shadowfiend: Raze. Ult. Enough said. Razor: can build like a tank and shut down any carry in the game with his leash. His ult is pretty damn powerful as well. Weaver: Most of his kit is built around being a better carry, and his ult is pretty much a free aegis. Mirana: Brings a HUGE stun to a fight, has an escape mechanic (which clinkz does as long as there is no gem/dust on the enemy team), free smoke with her ult to allow escapes or ganks. Drow: Built in 45 agility on her ult, ranged damage increase aura, huge area silence, frost arrows. OD: Built Int, ult, watch enemy team die. QoP: Can carry, can gank, what more do you need from her? Invoker: CAN build like a carry but I find it better if he has items like a force/sheep over something like a mkb or whatever. Furion: Sprout, farms EXTREMELY easy, can carry and counter push. What does clinkz do? Strafe for +110 attack speed for 4/6/8/10 seconds on a 60/50/40/30 second CD. Searing Arrows for bonus 50 damage per hit, which is nice. Skeleton Walk to run away or to go gank Ult for extra HP/Damage. Pretty much every carry I mentioned brings something to the team and will outcarry a clinkz (given obviously that there is a good teamcomp which the guy playing clinkz didnt have which is what you get in allpick). most of the heros you listed there are pretty random, like razor outcarying clinkz ? pls stop right there buddy, your reasoning is even more random edit: actualy reading what your wrote again I really hope you're just trolling | ||
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SKC
Brazil18828 Posts
He is picked more often than Viper or OD, if that is an argument for you, why did you place them ahead of him? He carries harder than Furion, Viper, QoP, etc. He has 3 steroid abilities he can use to deal a lot of damage. Add those 60 damage you got from the jungle creep to the +50? he gets from Searing Arrows and the huge attack speed bonus he get's from Strafe and he is one of the heroes that hits the hardest in the whole game for that short period of time, while also being failry tanky with his ult. He does not bring that much to a teamfight, but considering he often builds Orchid, it is still more than a weaver or antimage. The fact AP teams suck is irrelevant on wether he can carry hard when he gets a lot of items. It's like saying Spectre isn't a hard carry because she is rarely picked, will be shut down by a competent team and needs a team built around her. The discussion isn't about Clinkz being a great hero or not. "The most I got was 600hp and 60damage". That's huge. That's like a 30-50% HP increase, depending on when you get it, and a casual relic and you say it like if it's nothing impressive. | ||
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Heh_
Singapore2712 Posts
On August 10 2012 04:16 LeglessPuppy wrote: I spent quite a bit of time just running a bot game with the cheats on to get a feel for how much his ult gave on what creep and the most I got was around 600hp and 60damage from one of the jungle creeps (I believe it was one from the trio of the 2 red and 1 blue things). But what does clinkz truly bring to a team comp that is not built around just him? You run around and snipe people that are alone, great. Team fights? Nothing aside from some right click damage that almost any other ranged carry in the game beats him at. Any competent team would realize when it is time to start running together/carry a gem or dust to kill clinkz. I guess playing CM with competent teams has spoiled me compared to what happens in allpick games where you have Clinkz Nyx AA Jugg and BH vs Slardar Storm Spirit Pudge Shadow Shaman and PA. IMO I find clinkz to be in the same league as a BH. He is good at what he does, which is be an assassin. He is NOT good at carrying a team like the many heroes I listed in my previous post. We can disagree all we want, but if clinkz is such a good carry, why is he rarely played beyond pubstomps? 1: Ogre maulers have 850 hp while the "large" creeps (centaur khan, ursa warrior, dark troll warlord, satyr hellcaller) have 1100. You can get more than 600/60. 2: If you don't like playing AP pub games, then don't play that. 3: If you know the rest of your team is gonna pick a bunch of carries then don't get another one and blame your team for not supporting you. 4: If you hate clinkz so much, then why pick him? Even if you randomed him, there's a repick function. 5: Clinkz is a carry. Carries are supposed to do a ton of right click damage. Clinkz does that. What do you want him to do? Tank, stun everything, mass AoE, high right click damage, high mobility AND a good escape? Sorry, there's no hero called "godmode". | ||
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MaYuu
Sweden516 Posts
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LeglessPuppy
United States190 Posts
2) I don't play AP and refuse to because of the situations that happen in this thread. Nyx assassin? Only someone who doesnt realize how garbage he is would pick him. 3) I will play whatever is needed so no need to tell me about that. I don't mind support and I like jungling. 4) I was testing to see how he was in a bot game so I intentionally played him. 5) He does right click damage like other carries but he doesn't do it as well as other carries due to how they work. Mirana: 5second stun at max range (360 damage nuke), huge aoe damage (300 damage to all enemy units in a 625 radius with one taking an extra 150 for a second hit), high right click damage (scales just as well as clinkz, high mobility, has an escape (leap that gives a 16% move speed bonus for 10 seconds), can tank as long as you arent going 'herp-derp i build manta and mkb and desolator and nothing else because who needs more than 1300hp?'. Typical builds I usually see are Manta MKB Deso Heart and Treads with an open slot for TPs. I dare you to try to argue about heart being a bad item on her as it is one of the best items in the game on almost any hero. @SKC I have yet to see a clinkz carry harder than a QoP or Furion built as a carry. Keep in mind, a Furion that builds a dagon is NOT a carry. Razor is the anti-carry carry. Steal the carry's damage and there you go, 288 free damage while you have your ult going and you ministun + do damage to anyone casting a spell at you. Viper CAN carry harder than clinkz because of him being able to be in the fight longer due to his innate tankiness. I see OD a hell of a lot more than I see Clinkz and I have lost more to an OD than Clinkz (2 times to clinkz and probly 5-6 to OD). How can you dispute having 250++ pure damage bonus on his Q over clinkz's 110 with searing arrows and his ult. Not to mention OD's ult does much more than clinkz does in a teamfight. I do not see how you think clinkz brings more to a teamfight than AM who can farm to his hearts content and then melt entire teams (or your own if you are vs a dark seer or shadow demon) and is super tanky. As for Spectre, unless you can get 40-50minutes of farm she is garbage. Like I said in my previous post: Clinkz is the same as a BH. If he gets off to a very good start he is almost impossible to deal with because of his ganks. Of course BH snowballs much harder than clinkz because of track so BH gets out of control earlier. My last post on this subject btw as we can disagree all we want but it won't get us anywhere in terms of who carries better than who. Clinkz has higher damage but less teamfight utility which is great for him being able to pick off people before fights or during them while mirana can build tanky and still do amazing. | ||
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cilinder007
Slovenia7251 Posts
maybe rethink the situation instead of blindly defending whatever it is you're trying to defend | ||
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Heh_
Singapore2712 Posts
And btw mirana isn't a good carry. Clinkz can outcarry mirana ezpz. And who the fuck builds tank mirana. Might as well build tank veno, at least the latter has more utility. | ||
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pyro19
6575 Posts
On August 10 2012 00:40 PassiveAce wrote: Dude ursa is op. Am I gonna have to get the graph again? Just Played with a Fail URSA. We have a Team of Leshrac , NS , KOTL , Ursa and Weaver against Tide , TA , Windrunner , Storm Spirit and Puck...I beasted throught the Early and mid game as Leshrac and had a Score of 12-3-13 by the Late game... This guy playing Ursa Farms the WHOLE fucking game..I mean that Literally ..he Didn"t Participate in 1 Team Fight and usually tried to Chase and tower Dive a Windrunner and ended up dead..Still we Pushed them Back to their own base...and had their mid raxes down and both the mid ancient Towers to 100 HP while we still have top and bottom tier 2....While the URSA still farms the Easy camp...We even had a Aegis Steal and Teamwipe and allowed him to take the Aegis in Hopes he would then push...Nope goes straight to the Ancients to Farm some more...I tell him all game long to get a Heart but He"s more Intrested in a shadow Blade... Anyways we fight 4v 5 all game long...Sooner or Later we start losing them since there"s only so much we can do while our Hardest Carry who farmed all game is Still clearing out CreepWaves...They Get our Tier 2..He doesnt come...They get our Mid Raxes He doesnt come...They start attacking our Ancients..Then he turns around and goes headfirst into a 5 v 1 while the Rest of us are all dead.... I ask him to kindly Fuck off and never Play Ursa again...(plus this guy had like 250 wins while the rest of our team had around 65-70 avg) | ||
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LeglessPuppy
United States190 Posts
cilinder why dont YOU try to show something otherwise? Notice I didn't say every carry outcarrys him, or that he is garbage. I said that most ranged carries outcarry him and then have a whole list of things that they bring to teamfights (which.... help for the carry to carry) and none of them are shut down by a gem or dust. @Heh_ the same argument about playing vs someone with any tiny amount of common sense when it comes to playing vs a clinkz. Oh there is a clinkz on the enemy team? Buy a dust, a set of sentries or a gem and guess what, clinkz ganks do nothing against you and he cant stealth to avoid your stuns etc leading to free kills. It all depends on who is playing as the clinkz or mirana. If you get someone who blows his leap to try to avoid some auto attacks, you just need to realize it is down for another 30seconds so your trilane (if you are running one) has an easy kill. If you play vs a clinkz just drop a sentry and you are completely safe vs him (obviously you have to have common sense as well to not be like 'herp-derp mid is missing i should go and play aggressive'). If you play vs anyone with common sense then they should know what to do vs any carry you can bring out, which doesnt happen when you play with russians and brazillians in allpick (once again, I do not play AP. I only play CM with friends so we have a sense of a team already there). | ||
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SKC
Brazil18828 Posts
That is irrelevant. A farmed Clinkz is scary and can easily carry a game. That team didn't stop Clinkz from getting kills or farming, so you are arguing about something completelly irrelevant to the game at hand. He reached that point in the game. Plus, I wasn't talking about low level -CM games or whatever you are talking about, I'm talking about broadcasted pro matches, where Clinkz was picked 70 times, OD only 34 times, Razor only 32 times, Drow Ranges only 24 times and Luna has only been picked 2 times, with 2 losses (she is far more recent to the game though). And yet you still believe those heroes are better, more versatile and easier to fit in a strategy than Clinkz. http://dota-academy.com/herolist/ You should probally get in touch with some captains, they are clearly doing it wrong. The biggest issue with OD is probally how useless he is against BKB. | ||
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