In-Game Standard Hero Builds Project - Page 74

On June 07 2014 02:53 Ayaz2810 wrote:
Just wanted to give you another internet high five Torte. I love this. So much info in one place. Keep up the good work bud.

On June 06 2014 02:04 NeoRussia wrote:


Earth is a positioning based hero with a melee range ultimate, dagger is better than force but both are situational. His roll just isn't enough to make positioning items absolete on him. AC only applies the debuff for a split second unlike desolator, you're basically only using AC to do the initial damage. SoF has more range than aura so you will almost never be in range to spread it it other heroes, and armour and attack speed is worthless on ember, therefore making ember one of the worst AC carriers in the game and also the worst carrier of any aura item including ones that have other benefits like drums. Maelstrom is a cheese item on him because battlefury does everything it does and more, and maelstrom overrides desolator procs so it shouldn't be built with deso. It also only hits once per SoF because it can only proc once the first stops bouncing. Yes maelstrom helps you farm but so does battlefury which also gives ember the regen he needs, without the useless attack speed. The price difference between maelstrom and deso / bfury is not enough to make it viable either.

On June 06 2014 02:04 NeoRussia wrote:


Earth is a positioning based hero with a melee range ultimate, dagger is better than force but both are situational. His roll just isn't enough to make positioning items absolete on him. AC only applies the debuff for a split second unlike desolator, you're basically only using AC to do the initial damage. SoF has more range than aura so you will almost never be in range to spread it it other heroes, and armour and attack speed is worthless on ember, therefore making ember one of the worst AC carriers in the game and also the worst carrier of any aura item including ones that have other benefits like drums. Maelstrom is a cheese item on him because battlefury does everything it does and more, and maelstrom overrides desolator procs so it shouldn't be built with deso. It also only hits once per SoF because it can only proc once the first stops bouncing. Yes maelstrom helps you farm but so does battlefury which also gives ember the regen he needs, without the useless attack speed. The price difference between maelstrom and deso / bfury is not enough to make it viable either.

NEW GUIDE
Naga Siren (Middle)

Skill Build: Q W Q W W R W E E E R E Q Q R (1. Mirror Image 2. Rip Tide 3. Ensnare)
Starting Items: Tangos, Quelling Blade, Stout Shield
Early Game: Bottle, Ring of Aquila, Boots of Speed
Core Items: Treads, Drums of Endurance, Diffusal Blade
Situational Items: Radiance
Extension Items: Manta Style, Butterfly, Heart of Tarrasque, Boots of Travel

On June 11 2014 21:15 BluemoonSC wrote:


Do you believe that diffusal is a core item in all situations? IMO in terms of value, a yasha is a better "core" item than a diffusal. sure, it has 10 less agi, but it is 1k cheaper, provides attack speed, and movement speed (which can allow for quicker farming).

As a stepping stone item, I feel like a casual yasha can propel naga towards her other items (including potential for a diffusal, but mostly for manta) especially if you're getting drums and treads before it.

Also - what timing would you recommend for radiance? Is this included in your guide? A lot of naga players try to rush it and wind up getting stomped.

On June 11 2014 21:38 Torte de Lini wrote:


Personally, when I get Diffusal; I feel compelled to gank and be active with it and that's why I debated making it situational or core. Then I realized you can just get it for the stats and the mana burn is good even if you are not using the slow and pushing down the lanes and burning any foes that try to stop you is good regardless.

Maybe it should be extension instead though.

Radiance is 18 minutes, but I think smarter people will tell me otherwise.

Hm, maybe Yasha instead of Drums?? Interesting.

On June 12 2014 01:10 -Celestial- wrote:



How does the cost of an item effect it being core or not?

Battlefury is core on AM, it costs over 4k gold. BKB is core on most carries and costs nearly 4k.


Diffusal has a really nice build up and is by far one of the best ways to boost your damage on Naga by a huge amount as well as making her illusions a threat very quickly. They do very little damage otherwise. And the purge is incredibly useful.

Yasha is a pure stepping-stone item and isn't particularly scary to see up. Diffusal is extremely useful in itself for both farming and killing. I would always, always prioritise it if I'm not going Radiance; for the same reason you want it on PL.


Honestly I just don't view them as comparable in any way. You need a diffusal throughout the game to make your illusions scary. You want a Yasha because you're building a Manta, not because you want anything off the Yasha itself.

Effectively you need a way to utilise your illusions or they're a waste. That means you either need Radiance or Diffusal, because they only do 20/25/30/35% of your own damage.


For comparison's sake on the illusions:
Yasha gives 3.2/4/4.8/5.6 extra damage.

Diffusal 1 gives 25/26.25/27.5/28.75 extra damage.

On June 11 2014 18:56 Torte de Lini wrote:
To-do Guides:

• Lycan (Lane)
  
• Skywrath Mage (Lane)
  
• Naga (Support - similar to how Alchemist is done)

Are we running out of guides to do?

On June 12 2014 10:48 BluemoonSC wrote:


I see what you're saying, but you are arguing the definition of "core." IMO, that is some basic items that make your hero tick. Is BF a core item on antimage? absolutely not. you don't *need* a BF to be useful as antimage. Are Boots of Travel core on tinker? absolutely, in order to fully actualize his ultimate.

Core items are something that you want to get every game for a hero, which is why I believe Radiance and Diffusal are situational. Yasha provides more farming utility (something you will want to be doing as an illusion carry) than a diffusal blade, IMO, which is why I believe that yasha is more "core" than diffusal.

On June 12 2014 17:59 Torte de Lini wrote:


In the guides, Core Items are understood as necessary items to optimally play your hero or to build your towards optimal play (which would mean optimal items needed to fully take advantage of what your hero can do and the items he would need to get it).

They are also in sequential order while Extension Items are a selection.

So for AM: Battlefury would be considered core.

For Naga Siren: I think it would be pretty great to have it, but perhaps it is better as extension instead as I feel it is more desired than Radiance due to how Radiance is a path you have to take while Diffusal can be picked up later and still be valid.

On June 12 2014 21:05 BluemoonSC wrote:


Yeah, I think at this point its a matter of semantics. I haven't played AM in a while, but IIRC there were several ways to build him apart from BF. I could totally be wrong though! But, either way, I think my definition of core is slightly different than what your guides intend.

If you're running out of guides and looking to update, could you possibly work on making the guides more specific with paths such as "poverty build" and "if you have free farm" kinda stuff? I think that would be neat and would really clarify itemization. I feel as though people get stuck heading down a path of something like getting a BF on AntiMage or Radiance on Naga (to name a few), and don't really know what to do when they've been ganked a bunch and cannot safely farm.

Either way, your guides are great and if I'm playing a hero I'm not entirely sure how to build, I always seek yours out, even if there are more highly rated guides out there. You know you're doing a good job when you can bring out discussion like this. Keep up the great work!