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On May 22 2014 17:21 Belisarius wrote:
I do feel like there are a number of heroes who would benefit from some kind of (support) (semicarry) (carry) distribution rather than (lane) (mid) (jungle).
I understand why you prefer that structure and most of the time it's more approachable, but it does let you down badly in quite a few cases.
I'm also not convinced that mid ET suggests damage. He's fine as a utility mek/aura carrier coming out of mid, just like doom/alc et al. He gets more out of his mid levels building damage, obviously, but it's surely going to to be more game-dependent than lane dependent.
The reason I do Lane/Mid/Jungle in the title is because there is literally nowhere else to put it that would look suitable. If I add any more tabs, the recommended items section becomes really squished and overbearing.
For hero descriptions, I am fixing them so it is a bit more explanatory; but you don't necessarily read it unless you're at the Steam Community webpage.
For heroes who can play a variety of roles, we offer guides with breakdowns of each item suggestion. Otherwise, I do a separate guide and slot them in a separate role.
Ir's either one or the other and I find telling people which lane to go to (or jungle) is a lot more fitting than telling them their role when that is so much more flexible and situational.
For ET, we assume that since you are mid; you can get more gold and have more impact in the game; while both are fine mid (utility or dmg) - I find that it's more of a controlling role if you're mid than if you're at the side-lane.
Same thing with Tiny where the mid guide is a ganking one since you get bottle and I made the side-lane more carry-oriented.
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any reason the greasemonkey script to subscribe all guides is only in the reddit OP?
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On May 23 2014 00:27 nRoot wrote:
any reason the greasemonkey script to subscribe all guides is only in the reddit OP?
I'm dumb
I need to reorganize the first page because it doesn't look good.
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Just saw this thread and I don't really agree with the skill build for the Shadow Shaman (Lane)
Usually I'd start with Shackle or Forked Lightning and almost never Hex. Reason is because if you have an aggressive lane I feel Shackle is stronger than Hex and hopefully someone else in the trilane has better initiation range. If there's no kill potential then Forked Lightning has better harassment ability.
However, the real problem with the skill build is that given the duration of Hex / Shackle both scale by 0.75s maxing Hex first seems far more logical. You've still got better two-person lockdown (as both durations are similar) and your single target lockdown is the same (but less damage) AND you don't need to be standing still in a teamfight for 5 seconds.
I'm not sure how much space you get to write things but it should probably also be noted to newbies that Serpent Wards is best used on towers instead of aiming for kills. Using Serpent Wards to kill a tower is better than using Serpent Wards to kill a support.
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Yeah hex first if for Lion, not Rhasta.
Shackle last 3sec instead of the 1.3 hex and shackle also does 100dmg ish or so. Should be Shackle / Lightning -> Shackle / Lightning -> Lightning -> hex -> lightning -> ult -> lightning -> 3 point in hex.
Q/E
Q/E
Q
W
Q
R
Q
WWW
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On May 23 2014 17:38 Yoz wrote:
Just saw this thread and I don't really agree with the skill build for the Shadow Shaman (Lane)
Usually I'd start with Shackle or Forked Lightning and almost never Hex. Reason is because if you have an aggressive lane I feel Shackle is stronger than Hex and hopefully someone else in the trilane has better initiation range. If there's no kill potential then Forked Lightning has better harassment ability.
However, the real problem with the skill build is that given the duration of Hex / Shackle both scale by 0.75s maxing Hex first seems far more logical. You've still got better two-person lockdown (as both durations are similar) and your single target lockdown is the same (but less damage) AND you don't need to be standing still in a teamfight for 5 seconds.
I'm not sure how much space you get to write things but it should probably also be noted to newbies that Serpent Wards is best used on towers instead of aiming for kills. Using Serpent Wards to kill a tower is better than using Serpent Wards to kill a support.
I seem to have made that change with the middle guide, but forgot to apply it to the Lane version.
thak you very much
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On May 23 2014 20:18 Torte de Lini wrote:Shadow Shaman (Lane)New Skill Build: E Q Q W Q R Q E E E R W W W (1. Fork Lightning 2. Shackle 3. Hex)
I think you have your skills mixed up.. It's Q/W/E = Forked/Hex/Shackle isn't it?
It really comes down to lanes and player preference but I feel the standard for me would be E-W-Q as I feel it offers much better ganking potential at Level 2. I'm not sure how much lowbies smoke gank but a Lv2 Shadow Shaman (E-W) smoked into mid is going to kill a lot of things that a Lv2 Shadow Shaman (E-Q) isn't going to kill.
It's very situational but also defensively E-W-Q will stop ganks on your cores a lot better than E-Q-Q given you can disable two rather than one. Even if you're just disjointing a stun with the Lv 1 hex it might be the difference between your core getting out of range or not.
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I have a few words on Chen items.
Personally prefer leaving obs to the other support and start with cour+sentry+RoP+clarities. Magic wand doesn't work for him imo since you spend very little time in lane and expose to mass spells.In ganks I hardly see more than 3 spells and rarely throw myself to the front lines.
I am skeptical about aghs since 4200 gold is no joke to begin with. After mana boots + mek, it is really hard to commit on it without sacrificing utility. You can either have Necro 2 which I prefer any time any day.
You can't plan/invest on late game with Chen so I prefer items come up online earlier.
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United States47024 Posts
On May 24 2014 00:02 Yoz wrote:I think you have your skills mixed up.. It's Q/W/E = Forked/Hex/Shackle isn't it? It really comes down to lanes and player preference but I feel the standard for me would be E-W-Q as I feel it offers much better ganking potential at Level 2. I'm not sure how much lowbies smoke gank but a Lv2 Shadow Shaman (E-W) smoked into mid is going to kill a lot of things that a Lv2 Shadow Shaman (E-Q) isn't going to kill. It's very situational but also defensively E-W-Q will stop ganks on your cores a lot better than E-Q-Q given you can disable two rather than one. Even if you're just disjointing a stun with the Lv 1 hex it might be the difference between your core getting out of range or not.
140 damage rank 1 nuke contributes more to level 2 kills than 1.25s Hex.
If you need the Hex to lead off, chances are you won't get the kill regardless because Rhasta's abysmal base movement speed means he can't be the one to break smoke and lead off on a level 2 kill except in cases where the enemy is so absurdly out of position that you shouldn't need Hex to lead. If you aren't leading off, for the most part 140 damage at level 2 is just way higher than the damage 2 or even 3 heroes can do in 1.25s of additional disable (1.25s is shorter than most heroes' attack time at that level, so at most it's 1 extra autoattack from each of 2-3 heroes that do ~50 damage at that level).
Rhasta's Lightning has higher rank 1 base damage than most comparable level 1 nukes. It's very rare that you aren't going to abuse this at level 1-2, though actually getting the 2nd rank at level 3 is more questionable because adding secondary targets isn't always a good thing in lanes you're trying to control.
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Great guides, took a long time to make I bet, though many are situational these are generally all pretty safe guides and standard like you say in the first sentence. There are always more greedy versions for just about every hero but overall of the ones I read are pretty balanced.
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Just wanted to thank you for your guides! Super useful when I was doing the 10 hero challenge, I could always find one and use it even when I had no idea what the hero was doing.
Keep up the awesome work!
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How do you use that script to auto subscribe to the guides?
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On May 25 2014 06:03 BoZiffer wrote:
How do you use that script to auto subscribe to the guides?
It's the one thing I never figured out unfortunately
On May 25 2014 03:50 Merany wrote:
Just wanted to thank you for your guides! Super useful when I was doing the 10 hero challenge, I could always find one and use it even when I had no idea what the hero was doing.
Keep up the awesome work!
Thank you, as you can see here; I'm not the only one contributing; I just do the small lifting.
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On May 24 2014 00:37 Laserist wrote:
I have a few words on Chen items.
Personally prefer leaving obs to the other support and start with cour+sentry+RoP+clarities. Magic wand doesn't work for him imo since you spend very little time in lane and expose to mass spells.In ganks I hardly see more than 3 spells and rarely throw myself to the front lines.
I am skeptical about aghs since 4200 gold is no joke to begin with. After mana boots + mek, it is really hard to commit on it without sacrificing utility. You can either have Necro 2 which I prefer any time any day.
You can't plan/invest on late game with Chen so I prefer items come up online earlier.
I'll put magic wand must later.
You're right about Agh's, it's been told to me before and I was adamant about keep it on. However to tell me that late-game is situational is pretty much a given and can't be accurately portrayed in a guide.
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How about a Lycan laning guide since, y'know, Lycan jungle hasn't been viable since 6.75?
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Lalalaland34504 Posts
It's definitely still viable in pubs, although safelane Lycan is obviously stronger if you are guaranteed a good lane.
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it's been suggested before and now my plate ain't so full, so I can definitely add it to the list. I really want to fix up some older guides first.
I'm also facing a consistent problem where all other guides haven't been updates in 2013; so I can't cross-reference ideas anymore...
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EPT
