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In-Game Standard Hero Builds Project - Page 50

Forum Index > The Tavern
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Torte de Lini
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
Germany38463 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-02-26 10:21:54
February 25 2014 21:58 GMT
#981
Meepo

New Skill Build Q E R W W W W Q Q R Q E E E
Added Tango, Tango, Healing Salve, Ring of Protection and Branch to Starting Items
Added Ring of Basilius to Early Game
Added Orb of Venom to Situational Items
Added Blink Dagger to Situational Items
Added Eye of Skadi to Extension Items
Moved Ethreal Blade to Extension Items

Viper

Moved Mekansm to Core Items

Phoenix (Middle)

Moved Urn of Shadows to Core Items

Phoenix (Lane)

Moved Urn of Shadows to Core Items

Luna

Moved Monkey King Bar to Situational Items
Added Butterfly to Extension Items


Not really happy with the Luna guide at all though :x
https://twitter.com/#!/TorteDeLini (@TorteDeLini)
Sn0_Man
Profile Blog Joined October 2012
Tebellong44238 Posts
February 25 2014 22:01 GMT
#982
Honestly after seeing ur posts on reddit I just read ur name as Torte de Weenie all the time. It's kinda off-putting.
LiquidDota StaffSCIENTISTS BAFFLED | 3275929302
Torte de Lini
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
Germany38463 Posts
February 25 2014 22:29 GMT
#983
Sorry, I think.

HOTD with Huskar seems a bit strange no? Orb effect with the other seems a bit odd when you have Urn + Inner Vitality
https://twitter.com/#!/TorteDeLini (@TorteDeLini)
Sn0_Man
Profile Blog Joined October 2012
Tebellong44238 Posts
February 25 2014 22:32 GMT
#984
HotD is (as always) a farming item. If you are farming then urn sucks ass and HotD is amazing since it allows you to float your life right where you want it to farm insanely fast. And stack. And have a creep. And satanic is ofc excellent super-late.

As a fighting item, HotD is pretty lacking and basically gets rejected. Urn shines there, along with stuff like armlet, HH, etc.
LiquidDota StaffSCIENTISTS BAFFLED | 3275929302
Whole
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United States6046 Posts
February 26 2014 00:46 GMT
#985
Ever since they changed Huskar's passive to be more early fighting oriented (with magic damage reduction), I don't think HOTD or farming with Huskar is the way to go.
Torte de Lini
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
Germany38463 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-02-26 16:49:53
February 26 2014 11:29 GMT
#986
edit
https://twitter.com/#!/TorteDeLini (@TorteDeLini)
Sn0_Man
Profile Blog Joined October 2012
Tebellong44238 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-02-26 15:40:06
February 26 2014 15:37 GMT
#987
Lifestealer distinctly does NOT max feast in lane dear god.

You generally want 1-1-1 at 3 but the order is extremely situational. Feast only does things for you if you are hitting the enemy heroes at that stage (it is in general around 2 dmg in lasthit scenarios, no better than stats lol).

From there, rage is the skill you want points in but you generally need anywhere from 2-4 points in open wounds to actually get it on an enemy due to the abysmal range.

The most REASONABLE build as a "cookie cutter" is IMO Open Wounds max as that gives you the most usefulness early, although often you need more than 1 point in rage to be useful so... yeah its situational. Something like "E/W/Q/E/E/R/E/Q/Q/Q/R/W/W/W/Stats/R" to 16.

After the first point, feast is pretty much always worse than the other abilities. Don't forget that the first feast level is better than the next 3 combined.

Oh yeah items. Midas is much better in lane than jungle but it remains situational, theres lots of games you don't want it.

Hyperstone aint core. U only want that item if ur going AC or mjollnir, which is NOT a given.
LiquidDota StaffSCIENTISTS BAFFLED | 3275929302
LonelyCat
Profile Joined April 2011
United Kingdom130 Posts
February 26 2014 16:09 GMT
#988
Midas is far from necessary in lane with lifestealer now, it depends on how much you expect/want to fight heroes. Phase/drum/armlet rush (I'd argue drum is core) probably gives you one of the strongest 20-minute heroes in entire game.

Since the Open Wounds nerf as Sn0_Man says you need more than a single point in almost all scenarios (1 point isn't even enough to guarantee it if you have a naix bomb!), I started 1/1/3/1 quite often since the nerf, then either going to 4/1/3/1, 2/1/3/1->2/1/4/1->4/1/4/1, but as a general case I think 1/1/3/1 into 4/1/3/1 is probably best as it gives you rage maxed relatively early but allows you to chase down easily.

I think AC is better than Mjollnir (in fact Mjollnir is bad in most situations I think) in almost all situations - its relatively rare that armor is bad. Desolater is probably situational, its a rare pickup now but super strong if you need to end and are snowballing as it kills people even faster + helps kill towers.

Orb of Venom should be situational probably, its super good on a hero building to chase people down to eat them.
Heart feels mediocre on LS when compared to other options but I haven't played him much without a delivery system in a long long time so maybe then its better.

Is starting shield, branch x2, salve, tango not better than the alternative - if you want a general guide I think a surplus of regen is probably ideal.


-----------------------

Tusk (Middle) could be worth doing though its pretty rare in pubs, but I'm not sure how much it would differ from other Tusk guides other than bottle?
Sn0_Man
Profile Blog Joined October 2012
Tebellong44238 Posts
February 26 2014 16:14 GMT
#989
Oh yeah its stout/tango/flask branchx2 forgot to mention that. 4/1/3/1 is also legit for sure.

Drums now suck ass on LS unless you have a specific reason to buy them. Have you seen how much that shit costs? If you want zoom zoom go sny. However, I can accept them being situational.

I don't think u can completely count out mjollnir after the 6.8 change to it's range (i think its bugged atm).
LiquidDota StaffSCIENTISTS BAFFLED | 3275929302
TheYango
Profile Joined September 2008
United States47024 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-02-26 16:25:36
February 26 2014 16:16 GMT
#990
On February 26 2014 20:29 Torte de Lini wrote:
Shadow Shaman (Lane)

Moved Shiva's Guard to Extension Items
Removed Blink Dagger
Added Ghost Scepter to Situational Items
Added Mekansm to Situational Items

NEW GUIDE
Shadow Shaman (Middle)

Skill Build: Q E Q W Q R Q W W W R E E E (1. Ether Shock 2. Hex 3. Shackles)
Starting Items: Tango, 3x Branches
Early Game: Bottle, Boots
Core Items: Arcane Boots, Blink Dagger
Situational Items: Ghost Scepter, Eul's Scepter of Divinity and Black King Bar
Extension Items: Aghanim's, Shiva's Guard, Scythe of Vyse, Refresher's Orb

Shaman support should still have Blink Dagger as situational. Mid Shaman should have Mek as situational.

The starting items for mid Shaman should not be Tango+3 Branch bottle rush. If you're going to rush Bottle, then start Tango+Salve+4 Branch.

I'm having huge trouble with BM middle as well as the original lane guide as BM fills so many potential roles and is pretty situational.

Beastmaster mid:
Skill Build: Max Axes, then Call, Aura at 2 always, sometimes at 4 depending on playstyle.
Starting: Tango, 3 Branch
Early: Boots, Bottle, Wand (Arcanes+Bottle+Wand+Headdress+Smoke+TP is your early game core which lets you camp out in jungle after level 8 and always be a gank threat thanks to TP+Smoke)
Core: Arcanes Mek Necro (Necro rush is good if you're ahead and can use it to solo-kill but the Mek first is better in even-ish games and most people reading this guide aren't going to usually get ahead enough for Necro rush to be worth it on a hero that fundamentally stalemates most lanes)
Situational/Extension: Vlad Agha Pipe AC Heart Blink Sheep Halberd
Moderator
Torte de Lini
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
Germany38463 Posts
February 26 2014 16:41 GMT
#991
On February 27 2014 00:37 Sn0_Man wrote:
Lifestealer distinctly does NOT max feast in lane dear god.

You generally want 1-1-1 at 3 but the order is extremely situational. Feast only does things for you if you are hitting the enemy heroes at that stage (it is in general around 2 dmg in lasthit scenarios, no better than stats lol).

From there, rage is the skill you want points in but you generally need anywhere from 2-4 points in open wounds to actually get it on an enemy due to the abysmal range.

The most REASONABLE build as a "cookie cutter" is IMO Open Wounds max as that gives you the most usefulness early, although often you need more than 1 point in rage to be useful so... yeah its situational. Something like "E/W/Q/E/E/R/E/Q/Q/Q/R/W/W/W/Stats/R" to 16.

After the first point, feast is pretty much always worse than the other abilities. Don't forget that the first feast level is better than the next 3 combined.

Oh yeah items. Midas is much better in lane than jungle but it remains situational, theres lots of games you don't want it.

Hyperstone aint core. U only want that item if ur going AC or mjollnir, which is NOT a given.


On February 27 2014 01:09 LonelyCat wrote:
Midas is far from necessary in lane with lifestealer now, it depends on how much you expect/want to fight heroes. Phase/drum/armlet rush (I'd argue drum is core) probably gives you one of the strongest 20-minute heroes in entire game.

Since the Open Wounds nerf as Sn0_Man says you need more than a single point in almost all scenarios (1 point isn't even enough to guarantee it if you have a naix bomb!), I started 1/1/3/1 quite often since the nerf, then either going to 4/1/3/1, 2/1/3/1->2/1/4/1->4/1/4/1, but as a general case I think 1/1/3/1 into 4/1/3/1 is probably best as it gives you rage maxed relatively early but allows you to chase down easily.

I think AC is better than Mjollnir (in fact Mjollnir is bad in most situations I think) in almost all situations - its relatively rare that armor is bad. Desolater is probably situational, its a rare pickup now but super strong if you need to end and are snowballing as it kills people even faster + helps kill towers.

Orb of Venom should be situational probably, its super good on a hero building to chase people down to eat them.
Heart feels mediocre on LS when compared to other options but I haven't played him much without a delivery system in a long long time so maybe then its better.

Is starting shield, branch x2, salve, tango not better than the alternative - if you want a general guide I think a surplus of regen is probably ideal.


-----------------------

Tusk (Middle) could be worth doing though its pretty rare in pubs, but I'm not sure how much it would differ from other Tusk guides other than bottle?


Lifestealer:
Changed Skill Build: E W Q E E R E Q Q Q R W W W
Moved Midas to Situational Items
Removed Branch from Starting Items
Added Healing Salve to Starting Items

Thanks Sn0_Man and LonelyCat. I won't be adding desolator, it was on there and Cuirass, I feel in nearly all scenarios, is pretty good and almost infallible. So I put Hyperstone as core.

Does Jungle Naix need to max Feast? I feel it doesn't, but haven't really tried differently

Yeah, Tusk middle would be very similar to Lane, it's just people prefer a separate guide, regardless how similar sadly (easy to find/identify)


https://twitter.com/#!/TorteDeLini (@TorteDeLini)
TheYango
Profile Joined September 2008
United States47024 Posts
February 26 2014 16:42 GMT
#992
Jungle Naix needs 2 points max. Whether you get the 2nd point is situational.
Moderator
Torte de Lini
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
Germany38463 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-02-26 16:46:51
February 26 2014 16:44 GMT
#993
On February 27 2014 01:16 TheYango wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 26 2014 20:29 Torte de Lini wrote:
Shadow Shaman (Lane)

Moved Shiva's Guard to Extension Items
Removed Blink Dagger
Added Ghost Scepter to Situational Items
Added Mekansm to Situational Items

NEW GUIDE
Shadow Shaman (Middle)

Skill Build: Q E Q W Q R Q W W W R E E E (1. Ether Shock 2. Hex 3. Shackles)
Starting Items: Tango, 3x Branches
Early Game: Bottle, Boots
Core Items: Arcane Boots, Blink Dagger
Situational Items: Ghost Scepter, Eul's Scepter of Divinity and Black King Bar
Extension Items: Aghanim's, Shiva's Guard, Scythe of Vyse, Refresher's Orb


Shaman support should still have Blink Dagger as situational. Mid Shaman should have Mek as situational.

The starting items for mid Shaman should not be Tango+3 Branch bottle rush. If you're going to rush Bottle, then start Tango+Salve+4 Branch.

Show nested quote +
I'm having huge trouble with BM middle as well as the original lane guide as BM fills so many potential roles and is pretty situational.

Beastmaster mid:
Skill Build: Max Axes, then Call, Aura at 2 always, sometimes at 4 depending on playstyle.
Starting: Tango, 3 Branch
Early: Boots, Bottle, Wand (Arcanes+Bottle+Wand+Headdress+Smoke+TP is your early game core which lets you camp out in jungle after level 8 and always be a gank threat thanks to TP+Smoke)
Core: Arcanes Mek Necro (Necro rush is good if you're ahead and can use it to solo-kill but the Mek first is better in even-ish games and most people reading this guide aren't going to usually get ahead enough for Necro rush to be worth it on a hero that fundamentally stalemates most lanes)
Situational/Extension: Vlad Agha Pipe AC Heart Blink Sheep Halberd



I added back Blink, I made note that it should be bought instead of Force Staff, but maybe a separate tab would be needed.
Added Mekansm as well with adequate description!

https://twitter.com/#!/TorteDeLini (@TorteDeLini)
TheYango
Profile Joined September 2008
United States47024 Posts
February 26 2014 16:45 GMT
#994
Blink+Force is fine, there's nothing wrong with having both.
Moderator
Torte de Lini
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
Germany38463 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-02-26 16:57:20
February 26 2014 16:48 GMT
#995
On February 27 2014 01:45 TheYango wrote:
Blink+Force is fine, there's nothing wrong with having both.


Done, I'll update the original update post in a sec!

whoops, fixed SS's mid lane starting items, thanks YANGO!
https://twitter.com/#!/TorteDeLini (@TorteDeLini)
Torte de Lini
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
Germany38463 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-02-27 08:47:35
February 26 2014 16:54 GMT
#996
edit
https://twitter.com/#!/TorteDeLini (@TorteDeLini)
Sn0_Man
Profile Blog Joined October 2012
Tebellong44238 Posts
February 26 2014 17:06 GMT
#997
Hmmmm
Poof really helps u CS at level 1 or 2 but w/e. Level 1 net is pretty ass too if u don't have a setup stun.
LiquidDota StaffSCIENTISTS BAFFLED | 3275929302
Torte de Lini
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
Germany38463 Posts
February 26 2014 17:14 GMT
#998
NEW GUIDE
Beastmaster (Middle)

Skill Build: Q W W Q Q R Q W W E R E E E (1. Wild Axes 2. Call of the Wild 3. Inner Beast)

Starting Items: 3x Branches and Tangos
Early Game: Bottle, Boots, Wand
Core Items: Arcane Boots, Mekansm, Aghanim's
Utility Items: Smoke of Deceit
Situational Items: Blink Dagger, Vlad's, Heaven's Halberd, Necromonicon, Pipe
Extension Items: Cuirass, Hearth, Scythe of Vyse
https://twitter.com/#!/TorteDeLini (@TorteDeLini)
Torte de Lini
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
Germany38463 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-02-26 17:28:12
February 26 2014 17:15 GMT
#999
On February 27 2014 02:06 Sn0_Man wrote:
Hmmmm
Poof really helps u CS at level 1 or 2 but w/e. Level 1 net is pretty ass too if u don't have a setup stun.


Yeah, I agree. I'm just unsure if we really want to steer clearly away from net; maybe we'll need it to escape or something. That's why I got a level in it.

Maybe it's just better to ignore it completely.

Would like more opinions. My meepo skills is subpar.

Personally, I prefer one in passive, max poof then one in net.

I'm going to test out the jungle Naix, but I made it two points in feast and then we max it last, after everything else; that might be wrong though...
https://twitter.com/#!/TorteDeLini (@TorteDeLini)
idonthinksobro
Profile Joined December 2010
3138 Posts
February 26 2014 21:21 GMT
#1000
i think elder titan needs a rework.

treads instead of arcane boots,
soulring instead of bottle if you are laning and not mid
stout -> situational

standard skill build is usually 0-4-4-0 -> 1-4-4-2
Echo stomp is really unreliable and you can only hit it if the enemy is bad or runs up a ramp without vision or something.
Ult is delayed because it costs a lot of mana and it also requires a setup to hit anything.
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