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On January 14 2014 06:09 TheYango wrote:Show nested quote +On January 14 2014 05:54 Pokebunny wrote:
I also strongly disagree with taking a point in Heartstopper early, unless you're playing support Necro (which you never should be). It pushes your lane, and Sadist + Heal are what makes necro a fairly decent laner. Heartstopper rank 1 is basically for vs. melee lanes mid, where you will push lane to get runes anyway, and they have to spend a lot of time inside the aura if they want to lasthit. Vs ranged they don't spend enough time in it for it to be worth it over more Sadist regen, especially since Sadist returns health in addition to mana now too. Show nested quote +On January 14 2014 06:06 Pokebunny wrote:
I'll usually pick up the casual vit booster straight after Mek and then finish heart after a Hex or Shiva, sometimes with force staff thrown in. I don't like pipe because usually you'll have major mana problems if you're getting mek and pipe before a big mana item, and by the time you have mek and a hex or shiva, you aren't gonna be getting a pipe at the point in the game where magic damage is a huge factor (generally).
Pipe on Necro is for safe lane Necro paired with a pushing Mek carrier mid (e.g. safe lane Necro + mid Pugna) or jungler (Chen, Enigma), which allows you to not get Mek and match your Pipe timing to their Mek timing (no Bottle + safe lane farm advantage allows the two timings to coincide fairly well) which creates a push timing that can be strong enough for you to punch through to T3s depending on lineups and execution.
Agree with both of these things! Also I think mid necro is pretty weak so I guess that's why I'd never go heartstopper. I agree with your logic on heartstopper for sure though. The pipe idea sounds quite reasonable especially against heavy magic teams, I'll keep that in mind. I could see pipe and mek timing working well with a Chen mek as well, which is actually something my team ran in LPCL yesterday.
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Lalalaland34507 Posts
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United States47024 Posts
Armlet is definitely not core. I think Lothar's is situational and not as "must-buy" as some people on the last page made it out to be. It's still a good item, but it can be awkward sometimes, especially given the nerfs its gotten as well.
Treads Drum BKB is a cookie-cutter "core" but honestly Slark's items vary a lot. He should be buying a lot of basic shit (OoV, Bracer, Wand, Bottle if mid, etc. and really how you transition out of that you really play by ear. He has a lot of options, and honestly any guide would just be laundry-listing items for a Slark player to keep in mind.
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Czech Republic18921 Posts
I'm neither Yango nor Firebolt, but for a lane Slark, Aquilla is really nice, because you really need some mana regen. Bottle is perfectly fine when he's mid (and it's generally a good idea to get even on lane, if your mid doesn't get it, like OD or Lone Druid), but on the sidelane, you really want something. It's also nice in lane and builds up to vlads later, which is decent on a lane slark, who wants to fight with his team often.
I've given you my opinions on shadowblade and armlet, I'm not gonna repeat myself on that one.
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United States47024 Posts
Aquila is sort of a miserly choice that's slightly more farm-focused than Drum. It saves you ~1k gold while giving you about equivalent farming power for somewhat weaker fighting power. You get the Aquila to farm a bigger fighting item like BKB somewhat sooner.
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On January 14 2014 06:35 Firebolt145 wrote:
And lost?
Yes? I don't see how that's relevant, I wasn't making a point about it being successful, just about how it could fit into a strategy that I've used before.
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I removed Armlet and bumped Lother's to core because it still has a solid basis to get it in most cases.
I'm keeping drums as core and dropping BKB to situational and I'll add S&Y as well.
I'm adding a section titled: Small purchases for Slark
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United States47024 Posts
I would keep BKB under core. You can put it off, but it's rare that you don't want a BKB on Slark. It's far more common that you would skip Lothar's than skip BKB.
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On January 14 2014 07:40 TheYango wrote:
I would keep BKB under core. You can put it off, but it's rare that you don't want a BKB on Slark. It's far more common that you would skip Lothar's than skip BKB.
I always feel it is redundant to get Lothar's and BKB as both core, as people would be buying both no? With two invis, I feel that would be sufficient initially as they find themselves needing that extra immunity during late-game; they would see BKB as situational.
Thoughts?
http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=165334812 (middle)
Changed level 2 ability to Essence Shift
Added Tab: Small Purchases for smaller situational stuff
Moved Black King Bar to Situational Items
Moved Shadow Blade to Core Items
Removed Armlet from Core Items
Added Sange & Yasha, Orchid and
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I forgot to add back Situational Items, sorry.
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United States47024 Posts
On January 14 2014 07:43 Torte de Lini wrote:
I always feel it is redundant to get Lothar's and BKB as both core, as people would be buying both no? With two invis, I feel that would be sufficient initially as they find themselves needing that extra immunity during late-game; they would see BKB as situational.
I'm not sure why you'd consider them redundant when their function has zero overlap.
The initial Lothar's invis is for picking an engagement point in a fight or for ganking. The nerfed CD on Lothar's basically doesn't allow it to be used as an in-fight disengage if you used it to enter the fight, which means it serves no function that's ever really overlapping with BKB.
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What about a general discussion of maxing Pact vs Pounce first? I lately have far preferred to max pact as I've found it significantly easier to farm/lane with him at levels 5-8 with pact max, while not particularly being much weaker in a ganking setting. Overall I'm aware that slark should be played as a ganker rather than a lane farmer most of the time, but I still find myself preferring pact. Thoughts?
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I used to max Pact, but I found Pounce to usually the most situation ally best during the early-game.
I think I prefer Pact at level 2 then Essence Shift for the escape help
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United States47024 Posts
It depends on the lane. Vs melee lanes, Essence Shift can be important enough to get at level 1 sometimes, but vs 550+ ranged heroes with escapes like QoP or Puck, the rank 1 Essence Shift at level 2 is virtually useless because you basically never get to hit them.
Pact vs Pounce max depends on the game, and goes hand in hand with your item choices.
This is sort of where the limitations of trying to have cookie-cutter guides comes into play, because for a hero like Slark--his gameplay evolves so much based on the game in question that it's hard to really pin down enough for a meaningful guide.
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Yeah, but there's definitely nothing I can do. I just with the majority or safer situation and make that "cookie-cutter" for a lot of heroes, I'm accommodating their diversity; but sometimes it is futile
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Slark (Middle)
Added Tab: Small Purchases for smaller situational stuff
Added Wand to Small Purchases
Added Orb of Venom to Small Purchases
Moved Black King Bar to Core Items
Moved Shadow Blade to Core Items
Removed Armlet from Core Items
Added Sange & Yasha, Orchid
Slark (Lane)
Added Tab: Small Purchases for smaller situational stuff
Added Wand to Small Purchases
Added Orb of Venom to Small Purchases
Moved Black King Bar to Core Items
Moved Shadow Blade to Core Items
Removed Armlet from Core Items
Added Sange & Yasha, Orchid
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Czech Republic18921 Posts
I think this is good. Obviously, it's not not going to be correct 100%, but no build ever is. For example, if you lose all three lanes and the enemy team is 5manning the shit out of all your towers, you don't want a shadowblade. But that should be obvious and it's not something you can really account for in an ingame guide, which can only be so long.
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Thank you, I appreciate the validation as I wasnt sure it was accurate.
I appreciate really holding my hand through some of these, as with all new builds; I will test it out in a game of my own later
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Lalalaland34507 Posts
On January 14 2014 07:01 Pokebunny wrote:Yes? I don't see how that's relevant, I wasn't making a point about it being successful, just about how it could fit into a strategy that I've used before.
I was poking fun at you mate. 
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EPT
