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Buckyman
1364 Posts
I felt like I needed a tank item and health regen - Vanguard worked but felt overpriced. Early Mjollnir was a waste. Here's my very rough draft: ![[image loading]](https://i.imgur.com/IiqVkyy.png) Keep in mind that I've never made it to 25. And I totally forgot blink but it should be in there somewhere. | ||
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bdonballer
United States408 Posts
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Torte de Lini
Germany38463 Posts
Dark Willow (Roamer) Dark Willow (Core) Still improving them, just wanted to put something out. | ||
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Torte de Lini
Germany38463 Posts
On November 01 2017 12:41 bdonballer wrote: Good luck updating so many builds. I can't even imagine the amount of time it takes to do that. I just made some quick ones for my favorite heroes and it took a fair bit of time. Kudos to you Torte! thanks man | ||
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Torte de Lini
Germany38463 Posts
On November 01 2017 11:10 Buckyman wrote: Tried some Pangolier. Soul ring maelstrom works as advertised for flash farming (take the mana talent at 10 and skip E until level 11). Arcane boots felt better than treads because of even faster farming. I felt like I needed a tank item and health regen - Vanguard worked but felt overpriced. Early Mjollnir was a waste. Here's my very rough draft: Keep in mind that I've never made it to 25. And I totally forgot blink but it should be in there somewhere. Soul Ring seems like a waste. I took the mana talent. 1 point in E is great I would say. Phase Boots over Treads imo Shield Crash is meant to help you with tanking up. I feel like S&Y would be great here | ||
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Buckyman
1364 Posts
Your build is a lot less farm oriented and somewhat more fight oriented than mine. Aquila makes sense in that context. Phase boots would indeed be my choice if I weren't going for max farm from Arcanes. Extension Travels is a good call. His excellent wave-clearing makes him a good choice to handle split-push with. Skadi and S&Y seem redundant. I'd stick with Skadi but that might be our different playstyles again. In summary, of your item choices that weren't in my draft, these would be good in the maelstrom build: Boots of Travel, Eye of Skadi, Infused Raindrop, Blink Dagger These item choices represent a compromise: Phase Boots, Ring of Aquila These items only make sense in a diffusal-first build: Sange&Yasha, Blade mail Items I don't get and need to evaluate: Silver Edge, MKB | ||
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Torte de Lini
Germany38463 Posts
On November 02 2017 00:18 Buckyman wrote: Re: Pangolier Your build is a lot less farm oriented and somewhat more fight oriented than mine. Aquila makes sense in that context. Phase boots would indeed be my choice if I weren't going for max farm from Arcanes. Extension Travels is a good call. His excellent wave-clearing makes him a good choice to handle split-push with. Skadi and S&Y seem redundant. I'd stick with Skadi but that might be our different playstyles again. In summary, of your item choices that weren't in my draft, these would be good in the maelstrom build: Boots of Travel, Eye of Skadi, Infused Raindrop, Blink Dagger These item choices represent a compromise: Phase Boots, Ring of Aquila These items only make sense in a diffusal-first build: Sange&Yasha, Blade mail Items I don't get and need to evaluate: Silver Edge, MKB Do oyu suggest a second build? MKB is really strong on Pangolier, I agree S&Y/Skadi are redundant but I'm leaning towards S&Y, maybe I'll make it situational. | ||
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Sn0_Man
Tebellong44238 Posts
eventually you have to upgrade them though, then you get MKB and Basher | ||
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Buckyman
1364 Posts
On November 02 2017 02:03 Torte de Lini wrote: Do oyu suggest a second build? Eh, I'm publishing a polished-up version of my draft if you don't adopt it, so no need to make a second guide yourself. I would, however, suggest trying the soul ring maelstrom vanguard build at some point. | ||
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Torte de Lini
Germany38463 Posts
After 15 days (October 18 to November 2), we have risen from 271,285,269 to 275,124,726 combined subscriptions A difference of 3,839,457 Average Subscribers per Guide is 1,752,386.79 Growth Percentage is 1.41% 5 least popular guides (bottom being the least popular):
5 most popular guides (top being the most popular): Newly Released Guides: Patreon.com/Torte, this project continues to be made possible by the contributions of: Alfred Vogl, Cam Connor, Michael Carmody, Dylan Lauritsen, Thane Brimhall, Mathew Buhler, Sean McMurray, szymond70, James, Leonardo Lambertini, Sutas, Nicholas Chlumecky, Firebat4321, Jeroen Koenders, Alan Meng, Jade Wardle, Dice, Vodka, Kilataco, Andrew Krigline, Garbarise, Andrew Heckathorn, Demartan, Captain Marvelous, Christian Traeger, Katilyn McDougle, Benjamin Richter, dsrtfx_xx, Michael Kaeser, Lowe Schmidt, Tony Heugh, James Merrill, Guitaringegg, JimmaDaRustla, Daxdiv, Ryan Goss, Nate Hubbard, The WLD Crew, Matthew Nami, AD2L, tale, Swaroop Hegde, Anagh Kumar Baranwal, Luke Mirman, Jose Cacho, Eric Barett, JJ Sigler, Mr Magnificent, Ian Lunderskov, Unfun, Douglas Hitchcock, Kistaro Windrider, Nick Mayo, Paul Martindale, Liam Metzeling, Stefan Chladek, George Azarias, Julian Koniger, Christopher Dickson, S J, Tyler Reid, Hursha, Aaron Bell, Cooper Johnson, Samuel Enocsson, slashershot, Igor Dolgiy, Josh Laseter, Gerald Callow, zyberspace, Kjetil Kultom, Steve, Genc Musliu, Joshua Rodman, Moe Foster Portions of their pledges will go to long-time community members, dedicated to providing feedback to keep this collection of hero builds accurate to current standards of play. This latest update and hero builds changes was made possible thanks to the feedback and knowledge of the following community members. Sincere thank you to: Buckyman, Velzi, Sn0_Man, SerpentineLogic | ||
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Buckyman
1364 Posts
QWQEERQEETQ ...but the level 10 attack speed talent means he might prefer having 0 cooldown when he picks it up: QWQEERQEQTE Also, with the new and very spammable Nethertoxin, it would be nice if the guide had some sort of mana regen solution that's more than Aquila but less than than Bloodthorne. | ||
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Sn0_Man
Tebellong44238 Posts
It's interesting to watch what pro's have attempted. Matumbaman played 3 games with viper at dotapit and opted for different builds every time. One fairly consistent thing he did was leaving nethertoxin at level 3 for quite a while, which I assume is due to the fact that he bought a veil, which *should* make nethertoxin 3 full-kill a creep wave. I don't think veil is the item (nor do i think 8% spell vamp is the talent, although matu took it consistently) but I do think that matu wasn't wrong about needing nethertoxin to farm. I think eventually we'll see players getting better at laning with viper with less levels in Q and E and more movement towards faster nethertoxin maxing for farming potential. I've only tried new viper once but I'd probably recommend a build like q/e/q/w/w/r/w/w/q/(talent)/q etc. Where the W max is because there's no way you get a veil. | ||
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Buckyman
1364 Posts
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Doomblaze
United States1292 Posts
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CosmicSpiral
United States15275 Posts
On November 03 2017 23:35 Sn0_Man wrote: I strongly disagree with maxing q and e before nethertoxin. It's true that viper isn't very intimidating in lane without some levels in q and e, but nethertoxin is viper's farming skill and it's imperative to get more than one level in it before 12. Nethertoxin annihilates creeps on essentially no cooldown. Unfortunately, I'm not really sure what the optimal skill build is because if you max nethertoxin in lane you aren't actually very scary (weak base damage, your Q costs infinite mana and doesn't do anything until you've already harassed them a lot, etc) but the suggested q/e max builds are like pretending you are just a nerfed version of old viper and accepting that. I don't see an optimal skill build on Viper anymore. It depends on what you want to do in lane. W+E is ideal if you want the laning phase to go by with minimal risk and turn around ganks; Q+W is great if you have an advantageous matchup and want to harass him away from the wave (although it requires Aquila + Raindrops by default). The Q+E build is crap. You can't accumulate enough damage to make Poison Attack a threat. On November 03 2017 23:35 Sn0_Man wrote: I don't think veil is the item (nor do i think 8% spell vamp is the talent, although matu took it consistently) but I do think that matu wasn't wrong about needing nethertoxin to farm. I think eventually we'll see players getting better at laning with viper with less levels in Q and E and more movement towards faster nethertoxin maxing for farming potential. I've only tried new viper once but I'd probably recommend a build like q/e/q/w/w/r/w/w/q/(talent)/q etc. Where the W max is because there's no way you get a veil. I've experimented with some hybrid builds and the spell vamp + Corrosive talents work best with Yasha -> Radiance. I don't see it becoming popular, for good reason, but the logic seems sound. | ||
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Torte de Lini
Germany38463 Posts
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tehh4ck3r
Magrathea7063 Posts
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Birdie
New Zealand4438 Posts
AntiMage Remove 2x slippers, add mango and stout shield. Put quelling in early game items, and wand. You don't actually need wand, it's arguably situational, but you already have the mango and for a general guide you probably want the more "general" case. It's probably worth putting skadi and satanic in there somewhere, extension or something. Lot of viable items late game for him now. For talents, +20 attack speed and +30% Spell shield are definitely the go. +300 blink cast range should be taken when vs bloodseeker, otherwise the +10 stats is better. The level 15 remains to be seen, a lot of people are favouring the illusion right now but Miracle is taking blink cooldown. I really like blink cooldown over the illusion personally. All Melee carries basically Remove slippers, add stout shield and mango, situational clarity for heroes like jugg and lifestealer. So starting items is tangos, salve, mango, stout, optional clarity (branch if you really want). All of what I just said has exceptions for heroes that don't build wand, for example PA rarely builds wand so you remove the mango. All ranged agi carries basically Start tangos mango salve, two branches, circlet. I say circlet because it's slot-efficient stats for an aquila and you don't really get more value from any other items at the start. Arguably more regen is good in an extremely tough lane, but these are standard guides. Most pros seem to be doing either this or wraith band and tangos. However, they can predict the difficulty of their lane better; the "standard" start should have the higher regen I think. Luna Talents should be attack speed, +24 lunar blessing, +10 all stats, +25% lifesteal. Probably put MoM before aquila and treads, as you usually want it first if you can get it. Medusa MoM or morbid mask should be in there, as core or early game, most carries without innate regen are building this. Talents should be +25 damage, +30 attack speed, +800 mana, Split Shot Uses Modifiers. | ||
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Torte de Lini
Germany38463 Posts
No longer: Legion Commander, Ursa, Axe, I think what we'll do is just duplicate the core builds to these outdated jungle builds and simply have two duplicate builds running. This should help transition those playing jungles to Core builds. We'll also just remove the NP Jungle build anyways, it was overdue. | ||
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Buckyman
1364 Posts
I suggest adding the standard stout shield and salve along with an obs ward. | ||
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