On November 18 2013 07:46 TheYango wrote:
Honestly I really dislike the idea of recommending Doom as a jungle hero in the first place in pubs, rather than a mid hero or safe lane carry.

Both guides are available (lane and jungle)

Torte de Lini

Germany38463 Posts

November 21 2013 14:00 GMT

#664

Still testing out Ember Spirit, but I am dissatisfied with him as a whole.
also looking to remake Ogre Magi's skill build..

Torte de Lini

Germany38463 Posts

November 23 2013 08:29 GMT

#665

Updated names for guides:

Windranger
Necro

Torte de Lini

Germany38463 Posts

December 08 2013 11:43 GMT

#666

Removed error on Morphling's ultimate description.

epok

United States117 Posts

December 08 2013 16:51 GMT

#667

Thanks for your guides! I've been recommending them to my new friends for a while now.

Torte de Lini

Germany38463 Posts

December 08 2013 17:29 GMT

#668

Thanks, that's great to hear!

Please, if there's anything that seems out of place, tell me!

Torte de Lini

Germany38463 Posts

December 09 2013 11:50 GMT

#669

http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=128734250

I think IO's skill build needs to be changed.

Torte de Lini

Germany38463 Posts

December 09 2013 12:07 GMT

#670

Guides just hit another million. That's 3.7 to now 4.7, but I am disatisfied with a lot of the guides right now and still need a bit of help in regards to some specific ones ):

Wisp, Slardar and Ember Spirit are my main concerns as well as the backlog from last month.

Sn0_Man

Tebellong44238 Posts

December 09 2013 16:57 GMT

#671

Wisp:

Tether/Balls/Balls/Over/Balls/Ult/Balls/Over/Over/Over/Ult/Stats ult at 16 tether at 23/24/25. Unless you need items help in which case its situational but urn/arcanes/mek is pretty reliable. Stick is absolutely NOT optional on wisp though since he shares the regen.

Slardar: I assume this is an item question? As much as it pains me to admit it, "guide" tier players may want vanguard first over other items on him. Blink is still core though, along with BKB.

Haven't tried ember i'm no help there. Best guide is "repick button" though afaik. Hes like 35% winrate.

Torte de Lini

Germany38463 Posts

December 09 2013 17:11 GMT

#672

On December 10 2013 01:57 Sn0_Man wrote:
Wisp:

Tether/Balls/Balls/Over/Balls/Ult/Balls/Over/Over/Over/Ult/Stats ult at 16 tether at 23/24/25. Unless you need items help in which case its situational but urn/arcanes/mek is pretty reliable. Stick is absolutely NOT optional on wisp though since he shares the regen.

Slardar: I assume this is an item question? As much as it pains me to admit it, "guide" tier players may want vanguard first over other items on him. Blink is still core though, along with BKB.

Haven't tried ember i'm no help there. Best guide is "repick button" though afaik. Hes like 35% winrate.

Build order.
I was thinking the same with Wisp and going more overdrive than tether.

Not only one in tether?

Sn0_Man

Tebellong44238 Posts

December 09 2013 17:13 GMT

#673

Can you restate your post with more context?

I'm recommending exactly 1 point in tether for as long as possible.

Whole

United States6046 Posts

December 09 2013 19:02 GMT

#674

For Slardar, I would move Blink to Core and Armlet to situational. Armlet is good if you have higher farm priority/getting fed, but that is rarely the case. You need Blink to gank early on because Sprint isn't good enough. I think you need a point in Bash early on. Also, why Sprint over Crush at 7? And, I'm not too sure why you have Butterfly and MKB as Extension Items. Yea, get that if you're some weird position 1 Slardar, but that is so rare that I don't think it should even be included in the guide. I would replace them with Heaven's Halberd and Shiva's Guard, and put Desolator into situational . Take out Quelling Blade from situational too.

For Ember Spirit, I suggest you read DucK's and Yango's posts in the Ember Spirit thread. To sum it up, you skill Q-W-Q-W-Q-R-W-W. Three levels of Q is needed because it becomes a three second snare. Maxing W is essential for team fighting because your Flame Shield gets popped off way too easily in teamfights. So if you max Flame Shield before W, you might have better ganks (debatable), but your teamfighting will be bad. You need to mention to get Flame Shield instead of two points in W in lane if you need it and would die/not farm otherwise. Also, save the second and third level of ult until level 24 and 25. By level 11, you can't use your ult for damage or else you'll die. You need to use it to escape. There are some cases when you have a level advantage and stuff where a level at 11 would be good, but in general, you need it purely to escape. So it's best to just max out Flame Guard and Q (not even sure if you want the 4th point in Q) earlier in place of ult levels and start pumping stats.

As for items, the core should be Battlefury, Battlefury, Daedalus. Situational items should be MKB, BKB, Linken's, and Desolator. BKB and Linken's are for extreme cases, MKB is for evasion, Desolator is if you're underfarmed or want to impact earlier or something. Extension should be Divine Rapier. Also, perhaps find somewhere to add Smoke of Deceit and add that with level two W, you can use W from the exact range that Smoke reveals you. So encourage people to practice trying to use Q during their W attacks and gank with that.

Torte de Lini

Germany38463 Posts

December 09 2013 19:11 GMT

#675

On December 10 2013 02:13 Sn0_Man wrote:
Can you restate your post with more context?

I'm recommending exactly 1 point in tether for as long as possible.

Yes, why?

And I was looking for skill build order for Slardar

idonthinksobro

3138 Posts

December 09 2013 19:17 GMT

#676

Early level bash does very little, sprint and stun are more important for solokill potential and the bonus damage is very annoying because it messes up lasthitting.
Slardar can carry but he can only do so if he snowballs if you have weak enemies on your lane and get a couple of early kills you want to build carry items, that is why carry items should be listed as optional.

Maybe the guide should have 2 item builds, slardar carry items and slardar ganker items.

Slardar skill build (i use):
2
1
2
1
2
4
2
1
1
3
4
3
3
3
stat
4
stats

Sn0_Man

Tebellong44238 Posts

December 09 2013 19:22 GMT

#677

More points in tether doesn't really help in the vast majority of situations. Having a mildly longer slow doesn't usually save you from death nor secure a kill. To expound, if you hit tether on a support they should be dead regardless of the duration of the slow assuming you have a carry with you, and on a more robust hero the fully levelled tether isn't very relevant. Its like atos, sounds really good but never actually good. The heroes it matters on have BKB or a blink type thing etc. Especially with such terrible stat gain wisp really benefits from levels in stats (considering the chances of wisp getting past level 16 in most games...). Especially since wisp always has a buddy so you aren't solo killing people or whatever.

Slardar you want Stun/Sprint/Stun/Sprint/Stun/Ult/Stun/Bash/Sprint/Sprint/Ult/Bash/Bash/Bash/Stats/Ult
Situationally an earlier level of bash can be OK but levelling sprint is more reliable and stable.

EDIT: so I'm recommending a miser's level of bash at 8, but otherwise about the same as the guy above.

Double edit: Tether slow really is never long enough to matter even at level 4 is kinda the point I'm making. With stuns, every little bit matters. With slows, if its not like an extra second it's not terribly good lol. Comparing level 4 tether slow to level 1 veno gale is kinda informative.

Torte de Lini

Germany38463 Posts

December 09 2013 21:07 GMT

#678

IO:
Changed skill order: Q W W E W R W E E E R Stats
Removed Wand from Early Game Items
Added: Sn0_Man as Contributor

Slardar:
Changed skill order: W Q W Q W R W Q Q E R E E E
Removed Quelling Blade
Improved Item Build system: Core - Treads/Blink Dagger, Ganker - Medallion/BKB/Armlet/Deso/AC, Carry - BKB/AC/Heart, Situational Items - MKB/Shiva's Guard/Heaven's Halberd
Added: Whole as Contributor

I can split the guide into two forms [carry/ganker], but it'll need to be refined in terms of items.

I'm updating Ember Spirit, but the suggestion confuses me. That build feels like it makes no sense!

Thanks for the suggestions!

Should I remove the 6.79 part in the title or just leave it?

Whole

United States6046 Posts

December 09 2013 22:20 GMT

#679

For carry, you should still include AC. AC is just an all around great item for a late game Slardar regardless of the role. Still confused about MKB.

What questions do you have about the Ember Spirit build? It seems really weird, but that is because Ember Spirit is a very odd hero. His late game is literally staying in the back and spamming W because his stats are so bad that he cannot be in the middle of a fight (Flame Guard doesn't stop that much damage.)

Torte de Lini

Germany38463 Posts

December 09 2013 23:33 GMT

#680

What should be the ganker items for Slardar?