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In-Game Standard Hero Builds Project - Page 323

Forum Index > The Tavern
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ahswtini
Profile Blog Joined June 2008
Northern Ireland22213 Posts
July 04 2016 10:30 GMT
#6441
riki should not buy clarities. riki starting items are tangoes oov sentries, much like bounty. he doesnt need clarities. u need tango sentry to counter the inevitable sentry mid.
"As I've said, balance isn't about strategies or counters, it's about probability and statistics." - paralleluniverse
Buckyman
Profile Joined May 2014
1364 Posts
July 04 2016 18:46 GMT
#6442
On July 04 2016 19:22 Belisarius wrote:
Also if you're roaming you absolutely take lv1 cloak so idk what you're talking about smoke for.


lvl 1 cloak is fine, but I want 1-1-2 minimum before abandoning the offlane.
firebfm
Profile Joined April 2014
22 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-07-04 19:02:42
July 04 2016 18:55 GMT
#6443
Add urn and raindrop to Warlock. He needs mana regen. It's hard to rush aghs without some small items. Urn is great on silencer. Silencer has to be in fights to steal int so he can also get urn charges.
Birdie
Profile Blog Joined August 2007
New Zealand4438 Posts
July 04 2016 22:14 GMT
#6444
On July 05 2016 03:46 Buckyman wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 04 2016 19:22 Belisarius wrote:
Also if you're roaming you absolutely take lv1 cloak so idk what you're talking about smoke for.


lvl 1 cloak is fine, but I want 1-1-2 minimum before abandoning the offlane.

If you're roaming you don't start in the offlane. You start by sniping mid courier, or harassing mid, or perhaps working with the other support to secure a kill on their offlaner (unless he's smart and starting in the jungle, in which case you go harass him there and steal his last hits).
Red classic | A butterfly dreamed he was Zhuangzi | 4.5k, heading to 5k as support!
ahswtini
Profile Blog Joined June 2008
Northern Ireland22213 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-07-05 09:28:59
July 05 2016 09:24 GMT
#6445
and thus we have the problem of labelling riki as an offlaner SUBTITLE roamer. do u start in the offlane and then abandon it for some reason to "roam"? do u dual lane with another offlaner and then roam? just call him a roaming support already and make a separate core farming riki guide idk why people think offlaners automatically go and roam. offlaners either gank when they have certain spells (beastmaster) and go back to farming or they farm for their teamfight item (mek, blink) and go take towers. they dont roam lol.

i feel like we're hitting yet another torte wall of stubborness
"As I've said, balance isn't about strategies or counters, it's about probability and statistics." - paralleluniverse
Torte de Lini
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
Germany38463 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-07-05 20:51:20
July 05 2016 20:28 GMT
#6446
On July 04 2016 11:06 Belisarius wrote:
I looked at all three guides.

Prophet has faery fires. If anything, those imply lane over jungle. You only have one prophet guide and it would function for both lane and jungle if you removed jungle from the tab description. You are overusing subtitles in general.

Offlane and roaming are different things. In specific cases they can overlap (for convenience and because you don't want to make a new guide), but you are conflating them much too easily. In 99% of cases, roaming is support.


Nature's Prophet has no regen. items (Tango/Salve), that is not a lane-purposed build. It can be adjusted to accommodate Lane, but that would also render the Jungle alternative to be a bit inefficient.

In the case of Riki, this is an overlapping build. Riki is building Core Items with the availability to buy support items.

The fluidity of how Riki is played (with Core Items) set both in current high-level Pub matches and the recent competitive matches (see notes) displays Riki doing just fine in the Offlane while also being able to roam appropriately.

Complexity and IG had the same build, but played entirely different surrounding the offlane and purchasing utility items. Both has their validity and that validity and needed fluidity is emphasized by who the target demographic is as well as needing to accommodate for both circumstances, playstyles and match-ups.

In 6.87, he was 100% roaming going with max Smoke. 6.88 is a little more concentrated on a core build.




Mirana in the offlane is fine and is also built as a Core. We can move her to Middle.
https://twitter.com/#!/TorteDeLini (@TorteDeLini)
Torte de Lini
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
Germany38463 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-07-07 07:28:57
July 05 2016 20:36 GMT
#6447
ed
https://twitter.com/#!/TorteDeLini (@TorteDeLini)
Velzi
Profile Joined June 2012
Finland659 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-07-06 08:28:15
July 06 2016 08:26 GMT
#6448
Honestly the problem right now is the fact that We consider "Offlane" to be solo offlane, not some sort of offlane or/and support kinda role, where as Torte thinks Offlane is sometimes dual lane where Riki serves as a secondary hero, not the main laner.

Still I think we should have support/roam riki, not off/roam riki, if u leave the off tag there, u can be 100% sure offlane rikis will never roam to mid or safelane, but if u have it as a support, u can guarantee roaming SUPPORT riki will roam safelane and mid, even sometimes off if its possible.

And i do agree support/roaming riki can and should buy some core items and transition to relevant right click build if things go well, but its not like u are expecting boots SnY Diffu BKB @30min from roaming riki, u are more like additional unexpected damage from the position 4 hero when u already have 2-3 main cores dealing most of the damage.

NP, Faerie Fires indeed work better in lane than jungle, i'm by no means even good at NP so im not going to say anything about him.

Agreed on Mirana, having mirana as Mid kinda serves as a middle ground for all the current most used lanes (Safe,Mid,Off). Still, starting items are awful tbh, if u are core, u are not going to start off with obs and double tango (wtf), stats+regen is the way to go.
Never argue with stupid people, they will drag you to their level and then beat you with experience. http://www.dotabuff.com/players/115305822 https://yasp.co/players/115305822
Torte de Lini
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
Germany38463 Posts
July 06 2016 16:23 GMT
#6449
On July 06 2016 17:26 Velzi wrote:
Honestly the problem right now is the fact that We consider "Offlane" to be solo offlane, not some sort of offlane or/and support kinda role, where as Torte thinks Offlane is sometimes dual lane where Riki serves as a secondary hero, not the main laner.

Still I think we should have support/roam riki, not off/roam riki, if u leave the off tag there, u can be 100% sure offlane rikis will never roam to mid or safelane, but if u have it as a support, u can guarantee roaming SUPPORT riki will roam safelane and mid, even sometimes off if its possible.

And i do agree support/roaming riki can and should buy some core items and transition to relevant right click build if things go well, but its not like u are expecting boots SnY Diffu BKB @30min from roaming riki, u are more like additional unexpected damage from the position 4 hero when u already have 2-3 main cores dealing most of the damage.

NP, Faerie Fires indeed work better in lane than jungle, i'm by no means even good at NP so im not going to say anything about him.

Agreed on Mirana, having mirana as Mid kinda serves as a middle ground for all the current most used lanes (Safe,Mid,Off). Still, starting items are awful tbh, if u are core, u are not going to start off with obs and double tango (wtf), stats+regen is the way to go.


I'll fix Mirana, that' s an error.

If that is what a lane build also uses as starting items, I can switch to Core title. I'll verify.

Is support really the more apt title, wouldn't it be more confusing for users to see right-click/damage items and the title says "Support" instead of Offlane.
https://twitter.com/#!/TorteDeLini (@TorteDeLini)
Logo
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States7542 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-07-06 18:38:33
July 06 2016 18:36 GMT
#6450
Naga Siren Thoughts:

* The links on page 1 are in the wrong order (Support goes to the Core guide)

* Core Naga should probably get Rip Tide at level 1, illusions are pretty useless without Rip Tide. I don't know what level 1 illusions would ever offer over Rip Tide level 1.

* It depends a bit from there, but I think 2-0-3 faster for farming than 3-0-2 isn't it?

* Octarine is probably too late in the list. If you are making the mana boots you should probably be getting the Octarine Core after Boots of Travel or after Manta at the latest. At that point it costs the same to complete as the Manta Style, farms comparably as fast as the Manta (by using the reduced cooldowns) and gives you tanky illusions that aren't easy to clear.

When you skip mana boots the build is more flexible, but if you're dropping the gold on the energy booster you should be taking advantage of that on the earlier side of things, not using it for your 5th or 6th item.
Logo
ahswtini
Profile Blog Joined June 2008
Northern Ireland22213 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-07-06 20:38:24
July 06 2016 20:37 GMT
#6451
On July 07 2016 01:23 Torte de Lini wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 06 2016 17:26 Velzi wrote:
Honestly the problem right now is the fact that We consider "Offlane" to be solo offlane, not some sort of offlane or/and support kinda role, where as Torte thinks Offlane is sometimes dual lane where Riki serves as a secondary hero, not the main laner.

Still I think we should have support/roam riki, not off/roam riki, if u leave the off tag there, u can be 100% sure offlane rikis will never roam to mid or safelane, but if u have it as a support, u can guarantee roaming SUPPORT riki will roam safelane and mid, even sometimes off if its possible.

And i do agree support/roaming riki can and should buy some core items and transition to relevant right click build if things go well, but its not like u are expecting boots SnY Diffu BKB @30min from roaming riki, u are more like additional unexpected damage from the position 4 hero when u already have 2-3 main cores dealing most of the damage.

NP, Faerie Fires indeed work better in lane than jungle, i'm by no means even good at NP so im not going to say anything about him.

Agreed on Mirana, having mirana as Mid kinda serves as a middle ground for all the current most used lanes (Safe,Mid,Off). Still, starting items are awful tbh, if u are core, u are not going to start off with obs and double tango (wtf), stats+regen is the way to go.


Is support really the more apt title, wouldn't it be more confusing for users to see right-click/damage items and the title says "Support" instead of Offlane.

no they should see support and think "ok im supposed to buy wards and shit and not be in lane farming. but if i do get money, i should buy these right click items"

on naga i get octarine after yasha and then finish the yasha into manta
"As I've said, balance isn't about strategies or counters, it's about probability and statistics." - paralleluniverse
Torte de Lini
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
Germany38463 Posts
July 06 2016 22:07 GMT
#6452
On July 07 2016 03:36 Logo wrote:
Naga Siren Thoughts:

* The links on page 1 are in the wrong order (Support goes to the Core guide)

* Core Naga should probably get Rip Tide at level 1, illusions are pretty useless without Rip Tide. I don't know what level 1 illusions would ever offer over Rip Tide level 1.

* It depends a bit from there, but I think 2-0-3 faster for farming than 3-0-2 isn't it?

* Octarine is probably too late in the list. If you are making the mana boots you should probably be getting the Octarine Core after Boots of Travel or after Manta at the latest. At that point it costs the same to complete as the Manta Style, farms comparably as fast as the Manta (by using the reduced cooldowns) and gives you tanky illusions that aren't easy to clear.

When you skip mana boots the build is more flexible, but if you're dropping the gold on the energy booster you should be taking advantage of that on the earlier side of things, not using it for your 5th or 6th item.


1. I will fix the links. It was never noted, but when I converted the Lane/Middle guides, I also swapped the most popular guide to be the Core version and the lesser popular one to be Support so confusion would be minimized overall. Looks like I missed that change on the front page. I used this technique on a few other heroes also.

2. Ok

3. I have to double-check, I had not checked Naga since Frankfurt
https://twitter.com/#!/TorteDeLini (@TorteDeLini)
BigO
Profile Joined December 2011
Sweden956 Posts
July 06 2016 23:21 GMT
#6453
Any particular reason why you suggest maxing Riki's E first. I have played a fair amount of Riki and I have pretty much always valued the blink strike over the added damage from his E. Like when you roam and gank with Riki, the added flexibility of having a low cooldown blinkstrike will most of the time make it easier for you to get out alive or secure the kill. There isn't really going to be any difference in your damage output early game (well, except if there somehow is a fairly long fight, which rarely happens).

The lower cooldown invis is pretty much a non factor and is not as reliable as blink strike when trying to escape after a gank. Another thing is, once you hit 6, you can blink strike in, cloud, hit once, ult and then blink strike out and never be in any real danger.
Torte de Lini
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
Germany38463 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-07-07 07:11:53
July 07 2016 07:09 GMT
#6454
On July 07 2016 08:21 BigO wrote:
Any particular reason why you suggest maxing Riki's E first. I have played a fair amount of Riki and I have pretty much always valued the blink strike over the added damage from his E. Like when you roam and gank with Riki, the added flexibility of having a low cooldown blinkstrike will most of the time make it easier for you to get out alive or secure the kill. There isn't really going to be any difference in your damage output early game (well, except if there somehow is a fairly long fight, which rarely happens).

The lower cooldown invis is pretty much a non factor and is not as reliable as blink strike when trying to escape after a gank. Another thing is, once you hit 6, you can blink strike in, cloud, hit once, ult and then blink strike out and never be in any real danger.


I don't think I have seen anyone ever max Blink Strike over CnD or Smoke. Wouldn't having it maxed severely hinder your mana pool (since you need to smoke).

To add, Riki is initiating with Smoke and gets a Blink Dagger later on: removing the need to use Blink Strike to escape (and if so, you have one point in it early on just in case). With the slow of Smoke (and your OOV), you want to do as much damage as possible with your via CnD bonus damage than Blink Strike that can sap your mana relatively fast.

Blink Strike is maxed second in view of getting Drums to alleviate any mana concerns.
https://twitter.com/#!/TorteDeLini (@TorteDeLini)
Torte de Lini
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
Germany38463 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-07-10 19:25:39
July 07 2016 07:29 GMT
#6455
Leshrac (Core)
New Skill Build: Q W W Q W R W Q Q E R E E E R (1. Diabolic Edict 2. Split Earth 3. Lightning Storm)

Huskar
New Skill Build: W E W Q W R W E E E Q Q Q R R (1. Burning Spear 2. Berserker's Blood 3. Inner Vitality)
Added Wind Lace to Starting Items
Added Magic Wand to Core Items
Added Hurricane Pike to Extension Items
Added Boots of Travel to Extension Items
Removed Monkey King Bar

Treant Protector
Created New Tab: "Early Game"
Added Stout Shield to Starting Items
Added Boots of Speed to "Early Game"
Added Iron Talon to "Early Game"
Added Medallion of Courage to Core Items
Added Blade Mail to Situational Items
Moved Guardian Greaves to Extension Items
Removed Clarity
Removed Iron Branch x2
Removed Refresher Orb

Nyx Assassin (Support)
New Skill Build: W Q Q E Q R Q E E E R W W W R (1. Impale 2. Spiked Carapace 3. Mana Burn)

Phantom Assassin
New Skill Build: Q W Q E Q R Q E E E R W W W R (1. Stifling Dagger 2. Blur 3. Phantom Strike)
Added Ring of Protection to Starting Items
Added Vanguard to Core Items
Added Satanic to Extension Items
Moved Vladmir's Offering to Situational Items
Removed Quelling Blade
Removed Boots of Speed

Outworld Devourer
New Skill Build: W E Q Q E R E Q Q E R W W W R (1. Arcane Orb 2. Essence Aura 3. Astral Imprisonment)
Added Veil of Discord to Situational Items
Added Hurricane Pike to Extension Items
Removed Dragon Lance

Nature's Prophet
Added Iron Branch to Starting Items
Added Hurricane Pike to Extension Items
Moved Drum of Endurance to Core Items
Moved Shadow Blade to Core Items
Moved Maelstrom to Core Items
Moved Desolator to Situational Items
Moved Hand of Midas to Situational Items
Moved Black King Bar to Extension Items
Removed Clarity
Removed Orchid of Malevolence

Naga Siren (Core)
New Skill Build: E Q Q E Q R Q E E W R W W W R (1. Mirror Image 2. Rip Tide 3. Ensnare)
Added Yasha to Core Items
Added Iron Talon to Situational Items
Moved Octarine Core to Core Items
Moved Manta Style to Extension Items

Renamed Core
Mirana
Added Healing Salve to Starting Items
Added Bottle to Early Game
Added Ethereal Blade to Extension Items
Added Dagon - Level 5 to Extension Items
Added Shiva's Guard to Extension Items
Moved Wraith Band to Starting Items
Moved Black King Bar to Situational Items
Moved Linken's Sphere to Extension Items
Removed Mjollnir
Removed Tango x2
Removed Observer Ward
Removed Faerie Fire x2
Removed Iron Branch

Renamed Offlane
Riki
New Skill Build: E Q W E E R E Q Q Q R W W W (1. Cloak and Dagger 2. Smoke Screen 3. Blink Strike)
Created New Tab: "Early Game"
Added Clarity to Starting Items
Added Iron Branch x2 to Starting Items
Added Observer Ward to Starting Items
Added Boots of Speed to "Early Game"
Added Infused Raindrop to "Early Game"
Added Tranquil Boots to Core Items
Added Magic Wand to Core Items
Added Urn of Shadows to Core Items
Added Observer Ward to Utility Items
Added Sentry Ward to Utility Items
Added Smoke of Deceit to Utility Items
Added Drum of Endurance to Situational Items
Added Wind Lace to Situational Items
Added Blink Dagger to Extension Items
Added Butterfly to Extension Items
Moved Black King Bar to Extension Items
Removed Tango
Removed Stout Shield
Removed Poor Man's Shield
Removed Power Treads
Removed Ring of Aquila
Removed Infused Raindrop
Removed Desolator
Removed Daedalus



Notes: 6.87 + 6.88

+ Show Spoiler [Riki Builds] +
Competitive Matches
Manila Majors ~30 days ago
http://www.dotabuff.com/matches/2410966933 - Phase/Urn/Core/Max CnD
http://www.dotabuff.com/matches/2411603661 - Phase/Urn/Supp/Max CnD
http://www.dotabuff.com/matches/2418319460 - Tranq/NA/Supp/Max Smoke
http://www.dotabuff.com/matches/2419483371 - Phase/NA/Supp/Max Smoke
http://www.dotabuff.com/matches/2420586461 - Tranq/Midas/Core/Max Smoke
http://www.dotabuff.com/matches/2423222858 - Tranq/NA/Supp/Max Smoke
http://www.dotabuff.com/matches/2425646897 - Tranq/Urn/Supp/Max Smoke
http://www.dotabuff.com/matches/2426001580 - Tranq/Urn/Supp/Max Smoke
http://www.dotabuff.com/matches/2428372192 - Tranq/Urn/Supp/Max Smoke
http://www.dotabuff.com/matches/2430618706 - Tranq/Urn/Supp/Max Smoke

ESL Frankfurt ~15 days ago
http://www.dotabuff.com/matches/2442244100 - Treads/Vlad's/Supp/Max CnD
http://www.dotabuff.com/matches/2442540306 - Tranq/Urn/Supp/Max Smoke
http://www.dotabuff.com/matches/2444509429 - Tranq/Urn/Supp/Max Smoke
http://www.dotabuff.com/matches/2444663195 - Tranq/Urn/Supp/Max Smoke
http://www.dotabuff.com/matches/2444881470 - Tranq/NA/Supp/Max Smoke
http://www.dotabuff.com/matches/2447190474 - Tranq/Urn/Supp/Max Smoke
http://www.dotabuff.com/matches/2447365661 - Tranq/Urn/Supp/Max Smoke
http://www.dotabuff.com/matches/2448310164 - Phase/Drums/Core/Max CnD

The International ~5 days ago
http://www.dotabuff.com/matches/2464976921 - Tranq/Midas/Supp/Max CnD
http://www.dotabuff.com/matches/2465127321 - Tranq/Urn/Supp/Max Smoke
http://www.dotabuff.com/matches/2465530478 - Tranq/Midas/Supp/Max CnD
http://www.dotabuff.com/matches/2466075858 - Phase/Drums/Core/Max CnD
http://www.dotabuff.com/matches/2466394822 - Tranq/NA/Supp/Max CnD
http://www.dotabuff.com/matches/2466903757 - Treads/Drums/Supp/Max CnD
http://www.dotabuff.com/matches/2467484798 - Phase/NA/Supp/Max Smoke
http://www.dotabuff.com/matches/2467649043 - Treads/NA/Supp/Max CnD
http://www.dotabuff.com/matches/2467763435 - Phase/Drums/Supp/Max CnD
http://www.dotabuff.com/matches/2468846659 - Phase/Drums/Core/Max CnD

Total:
Phase: 8, Tranq: 17
Urn: 12, Drums: 5
Core: 5, Supp: 20
Smoke: 16, CnD: 12

Public Matches
http://www.dotabuff.com/players/124390073/matches?hero=riki - Treads/NA/Core/Max CnD
http://www.dotabuff.com/players/316950419/matches?hero=riki - Tranq/NA/Core/Max CnD
http://www.dotabuff.com/players/126503029/matches?hero=riki - Treads/Yasha/Supp/Max Blink Strike
http://www.dotabuff.com/players/102689086/matches?hero=riki - Treads/NA/Supp/Max CnD
http://www.dotabuff.com/players/43191774/matches?hero=riki - Phase/NA/Core/Max CnD
http://www.dotabuff.com/players/116585378/matches?hero=riki - Phase/Drum/Core/Max CnD
http://www.dotabuff.com/players/89249333/matches?hero=riki - Phase/NA/Core/Max CnD
http://www.dotabuff.com/players/4281729/matches?hero=riki - Tranq/NA/Core/Max Smoke
http://www.dotabuff.com/players/246237085/matches?hero=riki - Treads/NA/Core/Max CnD
http://www.dotabuff.com/players/111114687/matches?hero=riki - Tranq/Urn/Supp/Max Smoke
http://www.dotabuff.com/players/131043881/matches?hero=riki - Phase/Urn/Supp/Max Smoke
http://www.dotabuff.com/players/25907144/matches?hero=riki - Phase/Drum/Supp/Max CnD
http://www.dotabuff.com/players/86723143/matches?hero=riki - Tranq/NA/Core/Max CnD
http://www.dotabuff.com/players/89598554/matches?hero=riki - Phase/NA/Core/Max CnD

Total:
Phase: 6, Tranq: 4
Urn: 12, Drums: 2
Core: 2, Supp: 20
Smoke: 3, CnD: 10
https://twitter.com/#!/TorteDeLini (@TorteDeLini)
Torte de Lini
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
Germany38463 Posts
July 10 2016 06:07 GMT
#6456
Stats tomorrow.
https://twitter.com/#!/TorteDeLini (@TorteDeLini)
BluemoonSC
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
SoCal8933 Posts
July 10 2016 13:41 GMT
#6457
On July 07 2016 16:09 Torte de Lini wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 07 2016 08:21 BigO wrote:
Any particular reason why you suggest maxing Riki's E first. I have played a fair amount of Riki and I have pretty much always valued the blink strike over the added damage from his E. Like when you roam and gank with Riki, the added flexibility of having a low cooldown blinkstrike will most of the time make it easier for you to get out alive or secure the kill. There isn't really going to be any difference in your damage output early game (well, except if there somehow is a fairly long fight, which rarely happens).

The lower cooldown invis is pretty much a non factor and is not as reliable as blink strike when trying to escape after a gank. Another thing is, once you hit 6, you can blink strike in, cloud, hit once, ult and then blink strike out and never be in any real danger.


I don't think I have seen anyone ever max Blink Strike over CnD or Smoke. Wouldn't having it maxed severely hinder your mana pool (since you need to smoke).

To add, Riki is initiating with Smoke and gets a Blink Dagger later on: removing the need to use Blink Strike to escape (and if so, you have one point in it early on just in case). With the slow of Smoke (and your OOV), you want to do as much damage as possible with your via CnD bonus damage than Blink Strike that can sap your mana relatively fast.

Blink Strike is maxed second in view of getting Drums to alleviate any mana concerns.


im pretty sure 4 position riki winds up building the same way that any other riki winds up building, albeit slower.

the purpose of picking riki as a roamer is mostly to turn into a strong 4 position with an AOE silence, and eventually, be able to murder supports with blink strike and your ult thanks to a diffusal.

you dont need a blink dagger now that blink strike is on CD and your ult basically lasts until you're ready to blink out to safety.
LiquidDota Staff@BluemoonGG_
Torte de Lini
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
Germany38463 Posts
July 10 2016 19:04 GMT
#6458
On July 10 2016 22:41 BluemoonSC wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 07 2016 16:09 Torte de Lini wrote:
On July 07 2016 08:21 BigO wrote:
Any particular reason why you suggest maxing Riki's E first. I have played a fair amount of Riki and I have pretty much always valued the blink strike over the added damage from his E. Like when you roam and gank with Riki, the added flexibility of having a low cooldown blinkstrike will most of the time make it easier for you to get out alive or secure the kill. There isn't really going to be any difference in your damage output early game (well, except if there somehow is a fairly long fight, which rarely happens).

The lower cooldown invis is pretty much a non factor and is not as reliable as blink strike when trying to escape after a gank. Another thing is, once you hit 6, you can blink strike in, cloud, hit once, ult and then blink strike out and never be in any real danger.


I don't think I have seen anyone ever max Blink Strike over CnD or Smoke. Wouldn't having it maxed severely hinder your mana pool (since you need to smoke).

To add, Riki is initiating with Smoke and gets a Blink Dagger later on: removing the need to use Blink Strike to escape (and if so, you have one point in it early on just in case). With the slow of Smoke (and your OOV), you want to do as much damage as possible with your via CnD bonus damage than Blink Strike that can sap your mana relatively fast.

Blink Strike is maxed second in view of getting Drums to alleviate any mana concerns.


im pretty sure 4 position riki winds up building the same way that any other riki winds up building, albeit slower.

the purpose of picking riki as a roamer is mostly to turn into a strong 4 position with an AOE silence, and eventually, be able to murder supports with blink strike and your ult thanks to a diffusal.

you dont need a blink dagger now that blink strike is on CD and your ult basically lasts until you're ready to blink out to safety.


Blink Strike has a cast-delay that is not an assured escape route (especially if you need to target a near target). You still want to get Blink Dagger for those situations.
https://twitter.com/#!/TorteDeLini (@TorteDeLini)
BluemoonSC
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
SoCal8933 Posts
July 10 2016 19:14 GMT
#6459
On July 11 2016 04:04 Torte de Lini wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 10 2016 22:41 BluemoonSC wrote:
On July 07 2016 16:09 Torte de Lini wrote:
On July 07 2016 08:21 BigO wrote:
Any particular reason why you suggest maxing Riki's E first. I have played a fair amount of Riki and I have pretty much always valued the blink strike over the added damage from his E. Like when you roam and gank with Riki, the added flexibility of having a low cooldown blinkstrike will most of the time make it easier for you to get out alive or secure the kill. There isn't really going to be any difference in your damage output early game (well, except if there somehow is a fairly long fight, which rarely happens).

The lower cooldown invis is pretty much a non factor and is not as reliable as blink strike when trying to escape after a gank. Another thing is, once you hit 6, you can blink strike in, cloud, hit once, ult and then blink strike out and never be in any real danger.


I don't think I have seen anyone ever max Blink Strike over CnD or Smoke. Wouldn't having it maxed severely hinder your mana pool (since you need to smoke).

To add, Riki is initiating with Smoke and gets a Blink Dagger later on: removing the need to use Blink Strike to escape (and if so, you have one point in it early on just in case). With the slow of Smoke (and your OOV), you want to do as much damage as possible with your via CnD bonus damage than Blink Strike that can sap your mana relatively fast.

Blink Strike is maxed second in view of getting Drums to alleviate any mana concerns.


im pretty sure 4 position riki winds up building the same way that any other riki winds up building, albeit slower.

the purpose of picking riki as a roamer is mostly to turn into a strong 4 position with an AOE silence, and eventually, be able to murder supports with blink strike and your ult thanks to a diffusal.

you dont need a blink dagger now that blink strike is on CD and your ult basically lasts until you're ready to blink out to safety.


Blink Strike has a cast-delay that is not an assured escape route (especially if you need to target a near target). You still want to get Blink Dagger for those situations.

on a 4 position, you're gonna find far more use with that 2k gold elsewhere. if anything it is situational.
LiquidDota Staff@BluemoonGG_
Torte de Lini
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
Germany38463 Posts
July 10 2016 19:17 GMT
#6460
On July 11 2016 04:14 BluemoonSC wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 11 2016 04:04 Torte de Lini wrote:
On July 10 2016 22:41 BluemoonSC wrote:
On July 07 2016 16:09 Torte de Lini wrote:
On July 07 2016 08:21 BigO wrote:
Any particular reason why you suggest maxing Riki's E first. I have played a fair amount of Riki and I have pretty much always valued the blink strike over the added damage from his E. Like when you roam and gank with Riki, the added flexibility of having a low cooldown blinkstrike will most of the time make it easier for you to get out alive or secure the kill. There isn't really going to be any difference in your damage output early game (well, except if there somehow is a fairly long fight, which rarely happens).

The lower cooldown invis is pretty much a non factor and is not as reliable as blink strike when trying to escape after a gank. Another thing is, once you hit 6, you can blink strike in, cloud, hit once, ult and then blink strike out and never be in any real danger.


I don't think I have seen anyone ever max Blink Strike over CnD or Smoke. Wouldn't having it maxed severely hinder your mana pool (since you need to smoke).

To add, Riki is initiating with Smoke and gets a Blink Dagger later on: removing the need to use Blink Strike to escape (and if so, you have one point in it early on just in case). With the slow of Smoke (and your OOV), you want to do as much damage as possible with your via CnD bonus damage than Blink Strike that can sap your mana relatively fast.

Blink Strike is maxed second in view of getting Drums to alleviate any mana concerns.


im pretty sure 4 position riki winds up building the same way that any other riki winds up building, albeit slower.

the purpose of picking riki as a roamer is mostly to turn into a strong 4 position with an AOE silence, and eventually, be able to murder supports with blink strike and your ult thanks to a diffusal.

you dont need a blink dagger now that blink strike is on CD and your ult basically lasts until you're ready to blink out to safety.


Blink Strike has a cast-delay that is not an assured escape route (especially if you need to target a near target). You still want to get Blink Dagger for those situations.

on a 4 position, you're gonna find far more use with that 2k gold elsewhere. if anything it is situational.


Like what?

Your options are Basher and Blink Dagger, Diffusal Blade - Level 2.
Anything else either costs more than 2k, comes too late or simply doesn't offer what Riki wants.

Blink Dagger ensures survivability, better positioning and maneuverability.
https://twitter.com/#!/TorteDeLini (@TorteDeLini)
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