In-Game Standard Hero Builds Project - Page 324

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Torte de Lini

Germany38463 Posts

July 10 2016 19:26 GMT

#6461

Leshrac (Core)
New Skill Build: Q W W Q W R W Q Q E R E E E R (1. Diabolic Edict 2. Split Earth 3. Lightning Storm)

Huskar
New Skill Build: W E W Q W R W E E E Q Q Q R R (1. Burning Spear 2. Berserker's Blood 3. Inner Vitality)
Added Wind Lace to Starting Items
Added Magic Wand to Core Items
Added Hurricane Pike to Extension Items
Added Boots of Travel to Extension Items
Removed Monkey King Bar

Treant Protector
Created New Tab: "Early Game"
Added Stout Shield to Starting Items
Added Boots of Speed to "Early Game"
Added Iron Talon to "Early Game"
Added Medallion of Courage to Core Items
Added Blade Mail to Situational Items
Moved Guardian Greaves to Extension Items
Removed Clarity
Removed Iron Branch x2
Removed Refresher Orb

Nyx Assassin (Support)
New Skill Build: W Q Q E Q R Q E E E R W W W R (1. Impale 2. Spiked Carapace 3. Mana Burn)

Phantom Assassin
New Skill Build: Q W Q E Q R Q E E E R W W W R (1. Stifling Dagger 2. Blur 3. Phantom Strike)
Added Ring of Protection to Starting Items
Added Vanguard to Core Items
Added Satanic to Extension Items
Moved Vladmir's Offering to Situational Items
Removed Quelling Blade
Removed Boots of Speed

Outworld Devourer
New Skill Build: W E Q Q E R E Q Q E R W W W R (1. Arcane Orb 2. Essence Aura 3. Astral Imprisonment)
Added Veil of Discord to Situational Items
Added Hurricane Pike to Extension Items
Removed Dragon Lance

Timbersaw
Added Poor Man's Shield to Early Game
Removed Soul Ring

Naga Siren (Core)
New Skill Build: E Q Q E Q R Q E E W R W W W R (1. Mirror Image 2. Rip Tide 3. Ensnare)
Added Yasha to Core Items
Added Iron Talon to Situational Items
Moved Octarine Core to Core Items
Moved Manta Style to Extension Items

Nature's Prophet
Added Iron Branch to Starting Items
Added Hurricane Pike to Extension Items
Moved Drum of Endurance to Core Items
Moved Shadow Blade to Core Items
Moved Maelstrom to Core Items
Moved Desolator to Situational Items
Moved Hand of Midas to Situational Items
Moved Black King Bar to Extension Items
Removed Clarity
Removed Orchid of Malevolence

Renamed Core

Mirana
Added Healing Salve to Starting Items
Added Bottle to Early Game
Added Ethereal Blade to Extension Items
Added Dagon - Level 5 to Extension Items
Added Shiva's Guard to Extension Items
Moved Wraith Band to Starting Items
Moved Black King Bar to Situational Items
Moved Linken's Sphere to Extension Items
Removed Mjollnir
Removed Tango x2
Removed Observer Ward
Removed Faerie Fire x2
Removed Iron Branch

Renamed Offlane

Riki
New Skill Build: E W Q E E R E Q Q Q R W W W (1. Cloak and Dagger 2. Smoke Screen 3. Blink Strike)
Created New Tab: "Early Game"
Added Clarity to Starting Items
Added Iron Branch x2 to Starting Items
Added Observer Ward to Starting Items
Added Boots of Speed to "Early Game"
Added Infused Raindrop to "Early Game"
Added Tranquil Boots to Core Items
Added Magic Wand to Core Items
Added Urn of Shadows to Core Items
Added Observer Ward to Utility Items
Added Sentry Ward to Utility Items
Added Smoke of Deceit to Utility Items
Added Drum of Endurance to Situational Items
Added Wind Lace to Situational Items
Added Blink Dagger to Extension Items
Added Skull Basher to Extension Items
Added Echo Sabre to Extension Items
Moved Black King Bar to Extension Items
Removed Tango
Removed Stout Shield
Removed Poor Man's Shield
Removed Power Treads
Removed Ring of Aquila
Removed Infused Raindrop
Removed Desolator
Removed Daedalus
Removed Abyssal Blade

Notes: 6.87 + 6.88

+ Show Spoiler [Riki Builds] +

BluemoonSC

SoCal8933 Posts

July 10 2016 19:39 GMT

#6462

I would get a Vlad's over a blink dagger 9/10 times probably unless I was stomping or made that code transition much sooner than planned which s why I'd put the blink under situational.

As a 4 position you're not gonna have the farm to make your survivability worth more than buffing your team. Basher would probably take priority over blink too.

Torte de Lini

Germany38463 Posts

July 10 2016 19:42 GMT

#6463

On July 11 2016 04:39 BluemoonSC wrote:
I would get a Vlad's over a blink dagger 9/10 times probably unless I was stomping or made that code transition much sooner than planned which s why I'd put the blink under situational.

As a 4 position you're not gonna have the farm to make your survivability worth more than buffing your team. Basher would probably take priority over blink too.

I don't think I've seen anyone ever build Vlad's on Riki.
Isn't he much too squishy and vulnerable to death to make the purchase warranted when there are better aura holders?

The argument is that Blink Dagger is not a viable or possible option on Riki and I disagree. It's been purchased a lot in The International 2016 as well.

tehh4ck3r

Magrathea7086 Posts

July 10 2016 19:52 GMT

#6464

i would prefer force over blink on riki if i needed more mobility

Torte de Lini

Germany38463 Posts

July 10 2016 19:54 GMT

#6465

Force Staff's range is not as good as Blink Dagger and obviously reveals direction, defeating the point of using it post-Tricks of the Trade.

I'm watching a game right now where the person is building Echo Sabre after Diffusal Blade??

BluemoonSC

SoCal8933 Posts

July 10 2016 20:10 GMT

#6466

I was thinking about force and a hurricane pike also but tbh I didnt think it would go over well. item use doesn't reveal riki so it shouldn't be an issue. You need to turn to use both items, that's not a problem either.

Echo sabre = guaranteed double tap and a slow which is super good to keep people in the area of his ult and I was thinking about suggesting that as well

Torte de Lini

Germany38463 Posts

July 10 2016 20:14 GMT

#6467

On July 11 2016 05:10 BluemoonSC wrote:
I was thinking about force and a hurricane pike also but tbh I didnt think it would go over well. item use doesn't reveal riki so it shouldn't be an issue. You need to turn to use both items, that's not a problem either.

Echo sabre = guaranteed double tap and a slow which is super good to keep people in the area of his ult and I was thinking about suggesting that as well

My only complaint with Echo Sabre is that it is a greedier, large item that doesn't give agility. It's pretty late into the game already and so the int/mana regen is not as desired as say Bash.

Item use doesn't reveal Riki, but when you're using your ultimate, you are revealed after it is finished. If I use Force Staff, I am still revealed for those 3-6 seconds (depending on the level of CnD) and still in range of my enemies who can stun/bash me.

Blink Dagger can be used as you are channeling your ultimate, allowing you to blink away safely without fear and into trees or in a direction they didn't expect.

BluemoonSC

SoCal8933 Posts

July 10 2016 20:18 GMT

#6468

Force plus blink strike is plenty of space so direction isnt an issue. And if they are dusting you, diffusal after makes it even more moot.

Riki has mana and hp issues no matter what time of the game it is tbh. The slow is super nice in tricks of the trade and is guaranteed whereas the bash is rng and you could also echo and diffusal another target to get two people slowed.

Oh and you can't complain about echo as greedy and suggest blink lol. Echo has a buildup whereas blink is a straight 2k+ cost xD

Torte de Lini

Germany38463 Posts

July 10 2016 20:44 GMT

#6469

On July 11 2016 05:18 BluemoonSC wrote:
Force plus blink strike is plenty of space so direction isnt an issue. And if they are dusting you, diffusal after makes it even more moot.

Riki has mana and hp issues no matter what time of the game it is tbh. The slow is super nice in tricks of the trade and is guaranteed whereas the bash is rng and you could also echo and diffusal another target to get two people slowed.

Oh and you can't complain about echo as greedy and suggest blink lol. Echo has a buildup whereas blink is a straight 2k+ cost xD

Force and Blink Dagger? I don't think you will ever be able to afford both - let alone want to.
I am very confused by your post: when you are using Tricks of the Trade, if enemies are in the AOE, your passive will be on cooldown and you will be revealed after it is over. This has nothing to do with Dust and more to do with the fact that after your ultimate you will be visible: So what is the most optimal way to exit a fight (or re-position)?

1. Blink Strike has a casting delay and you must be near a creep or ally to be able to blink away (even then, the range is weak). So you will be in range of striking distance and visible.
2. Force Staff's range is inadequate and the pathing is revealed to the enemies. So you will be telegraphed and revealed.
3. Blink Dagger works directly as you are using your ultimate (similar to Puck) and has a very good range and leaves Blink Strike available if you want to re-engage.

I can complain about Echo Sabre being greedy for two reasons:

1. Blink Dagger is a utility item that offers key survivability and initiation for Riki. The straight-up cost was always a risk and hasn't stopped any and all supports from considering the purchase.
2. Skull Basher has a similar cost to Echo Sabre. Some similar stats (10str/10dmg) but has a more idealized utility (chance to bash + bonus damage).

I might add Echo Sabre over Butterfly as I don't think Riki will ever get an item like that in due time. I'll test it out today.
Out of the games I played yesterday with Riki, I got Blink Dagger pretty comfortably most games.

BluemoonSC

SoCal8933 Posts

July 10 2016 21:37 GMT

#6470

"blink strike" is his w you mighta misread

you're correct about passive being on CD, but my post was directed towards both initiation and escape. sorry if that wasnt immediately clear.

force + blink strike should allow you plenty of space, and if it doesn't, you dun goofed. as a riki you have to always be aware of an escape route. ease of use is not important here because the short CD is a core aspect of playing riki. if they're chasing a 4 position, its probably a good thing because that means they're not dealing with your carries too. force is also good when a gem comes out as a way to escape after the initial blow is dealt to you. force also builds into a hurricane pike which can provide riki with some stats.

additionally, you're not the primary damage dealer. force is a utility item that can assist your teammates when they are in a little trouble. you're a 4 position riki, not a carry.

don't get me wrong, blink is fine as an item. i just think that as a 4 position, it is situational. it isn't really key for him at all because you still want that blink strike + cloud initition. echo sabre also assists to keep people locked inside that area with a little slow. pros get away with blink because they're good at playing conservative until it is online. pubs are horrible at it because 1) they're not conservative and 2) don't understand farm priority. items with a buildup on supports as opposed to big purchases make sense for lower skilled player guides because they contain items that can be bought before death.

butterfly can stay somewhere in situational, but echo sabre likely needs a mention in extension.

again, as always, this is purely my personal perspective on the benefits.

Torte de Lini

Germany38463 Posts

July 11 2016 04:23 GMT

#6471

On July 11 2016 06:37 BluemoonSC wrote:

don't get me wrong, blink is fine as an item. i just think that as a 4 position, it is situational. it isn't really key for him at all because you still want that blink strike + cloud initition. echo sabre also assists to keep people locked inside that area with a little slow. pros get away with blink because they're good at playing conservative until it is online. pubs are horrible at it because 1) they're not conservative and 2) don't understand farm priority. items with a buildup on supports as opposed to big purchases make sense for lower skilled player guides because they contain items that can be bought before death.

Good point, I'll test it

Torte de Lini

Germany38463 Posts

July 11 2016 06:42 GMT

#6472

Publishing

Torte de Lini

Germany38463 Posts

July 11 2016 07:16 GMT

#6473

After ~15 days (June 25 to July 10), we have risen from 149,455,017 to 152,458,786 combined subscriptions

A difference of 3,003,769
Average Subscribers per Guide is 1,030,126.93
Growth Percentage is 2.01%

5 least popular guides (bottom being the least popular):

5 most popular guides (top being the most popular):

Notable Growths in Subscriptions:

Sven (2,032,700 -> 2,088,951)
Riki (1,632,447 -> 1,672,530)
Terrorblade (1,286,290 -> 1,327,391)
Ursa (Core) (989,360 -> 1,022,042)
Invoker (Quas/Exort) (962,028 -> 999,941)
Windranger (Core) (867,776 -> 914,597)

Newly Released Guides:

Patreon.com/Torte, this project continues to be made possible by the contributions of:

Alfred Vogl, Pearson Mewbourne, Scott MacDonald, Sutas, Nicholas Chlumecky, Mikey Kaminski, Dice, Bartlomiej Jan Pasek, Ryan Goss, Startracker, Joseph Casey, Freeze ray, Nate Hubbard, The WLD Crew, Benjamin Miller, Kistaro Windrider, Elliot Cuite, Patrick Colton, Daniel Thackray, Tobias Iskov Thomsen, Jose Cacho, Max Kemeny, Matthew Nami, Leonardo Lambertini, tale, Joel Absolom, Aaron Bell, Jason Davis, Dan Shaw, Josh Miller, Cooper Johnson, Samuel Enocsson, JimmaDaRustla, Slashershot, Igor Dolgiy, Ramona Brown, Duncan, Alishams Hassam, Leon Traill, Josh Laseter, Genc Musliu, Joshua Rodman, Moe Foster, Alli Goss

Portions of their pledges will go to long-time community members, dedicated to providing feedback to keep this collection of hero builds accurate to current standards of play.

Torte de Lini

Germany38463 Posts

July 11 2016 07:23 GMT

#6474

TheWanderingZebra, Thetwinmasters, Belisarius, Buckyman, firebfm, ahswtini, Velzi, Logo, BigO, BluemoonSC, tehh4ck3r,

The Hero Builds project officially hits 150 million total subscriptions
15.83% of last month's unique players [13,190,218] are subscribed to the our highest subscribed guide: Sven Guide
Ursa (Core) (1,022,042) recently hit the 1 million mark
Seven guides are currently swimming towards the 1 million mark: (999,941), (995,986), (991,637), (982,050), (980,872), (976,638), (964,902)

Torte de Lini

Germany38463 Posts

July 11 2016 07:45 GMT

#6475

Any way to optimize the first post? It's completely laggy for me due to the amount of text inside.

Also, please change the title to 150

TheWanderingZebra

United States16 Posts

July 11 2016 16:33 GMT

#6476

So a lot of people have lately been complaining about the current Dusa build that everyone goes for (the linken's manta), that it doesn’t deal any damage and that Linken's is more situational (and "passive")

I don't play Dusa though, but I wanted to know if you had plans to experiment with her and see if there was a better build right now.

BluemoonSC

SoCal8933 Posts

July 11 2016 17:06 GMT

#6477

medusa builds are hard to cookie cutter because every game is different. some games i'll go blademail, i've played some TLIH games with mask of madness + sny..theres just so much that changes from game to game on a hard carry like dusa that makes it difficult to outline all in a single guide.

linkens + manta is probably the most cookie cutter you can get and safest for lower level players.

you can't explain the mask of madness nor can you explain the blademail in a small guide.

source: i pick medusa into AM and get counter picked consistently on that hero

Torte de Lini

Germany38463 Posts

July 11 2016 19:35 GMT

#6478

On July 12 2016 01:33 TheWanderingZebra wrote:
So a lot of people have lately been complaining about the current Dusa build that everyone goes for (the linken's manta), that it doesn’t deal any damage and that Linken's is more situational (and "passive")

I don't play Dusa though, but I wanted to know if you had plans to experiment with her and see if there was a better build right now.

I updated her back in May based on feedback:

http://www.liquiddota.com/forum/the-tavern/453377-in-game-standard-hero-builds-150-million-subscriptions?page=310#6186

I can take another look, but I recall that this was what competitive used at the time and the feedback was to always push for Manta after some items.

Linken's is a safeguard item, it's not inherently right or wrong.

Birdie

New Zealand4438 Posts

July 11 2016 20:50 GMT

#6479

The issue with linkens and manta is that they're inefficient, low impact, and in the case of linkens, make you take longer to farm up. Get boots aquila MoM or yasha or maelstrom into SNY, Skadi, some dps item (mkb mjollnir daedalus rapier, potentially bfly), bkb if you need it instead of linkens or manta. You don't get manta unless it's late and u need something to siege highground with.

Belisarius

Australia6233 Posts

July 11 2016 23:07 GMT

#6480

I think Blink is better than force on riki. The synergy with TT makes it a guaranteed escape, and that cancels one of force's major advantages. Force is still needed for general utility sometimes, but I don't think it's the default.

The buildup isn't a major factor, imo. The comeback mechanic hands out massive piles of reliable gold, and a huge number of less slippery supports build blink just fine right now. Noobs are more likely to die while building it but also more likely to get fed a streak. It comes out in the wash.

That said, I don't think either is core. On 4pos riki, extension blink and maybe situational force is fine.

I agree that we should not be doing linkens manta dusa, but that's not because it's somehow inefficient or a poor farming build. It's an excellent farming build. It's just a terrible fighting build, and that's damning in this meta.

I'd say something like phase RoA yasha dlance Skadi is a reasonable core.

tbh, last I checked we were doing phase yasha skadi anyway. I'm still not sure why she changed.

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