EPTIn-Game Standard Hero Builds Project - Page 321
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Birdie
New Zealand4438 Posts
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Belisarius
Australia6233 Posts
I don't personally mind calling it offlane, because it's a bit of a middle ground that's not too terrible even if someone uses it to play core. Riki's very unique in that his support and core builds are similar enough for a compromise to be possible. If you go full roaming support that kind of stops working because his starting/early ends up full of wards/cour/etc, and the core guys go look for a different guide. Really, he needs two guides. If you're not willing to add or delete guides, maybe it's better to set him back to core? I'm a fan of veil before blink puck. The double null is ridiculously good for laning and veil speeds up your farming significantly. You get a slightly later blink in exchange for a much faster everything else. WR guide could just be a duplicate at the moment. Support/offlane doesn't see much play and it's less work to maintain a copy. I'd be more inclined to try and find a support build to justify the second guide's existence if you weren't maintaining a dozen even more pointless duplicates already. SF I don't mind aghs. I don't think it's as bad as people say, but it's a totally different build. You can't just throw it in. Why is prophet still a dual guide? Get rid of that nonsense and do phase drums mael. | ||
BluemoonSC
SoCal8910 Posts
again, your (lack of) presence is noticed when you're not stationary in the offlane. and if you're not in the offlane,you cant farm the hard camp. so where are you? likely roaming on mid. a proper 4 position does not necessarily buy any starting support items, but roaming riki certainly purchases sentries and places wards because he doesnt break invis upon using items like a bounty hunter would  | ||
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Belisarius
Australia6233 Posts
I agree it's not optimal. The question is whether it's a workable middle ground that keeps his existing subscribers happy, since that seems to be Torte's main goal at the moment. However, as I said, if we're not willing to create a second guide then the best thing to do is probably just to set it back to core. If Torte is feeling brave he could certainly set it to full support. I think that would probably cause a lot of pubstar rikis to subscribe to a different guide, but I could certainly be wrong. It's popular enough that a minor dip probably isn't fatal. There's no reason to delete it, either way. | ||
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BluemoonSC
SoCal8910 Posts
(and at lower levels of play, lanes are stagnant, so no they will not leave their lane) | ||
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Logo
United States7542 Posts
The name is unfortunate in that case I guess, but I don't think there's a strong need for 2 guides if Torte really doesn't want to add one. | ||
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BluemoonSC
SoCal8910 Posts
listing him as a "core" makes literally no sense if you're gonna give him roaming items. | ||
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Torte de Lini
Germany38463 Posts
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Torte de Lini
Germany38463 Posts
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Torte de Lini
Germany38463 Posts
 Kunkka (Core)Added Drum of Endurance to Situational Items Added Heart of Tarrasque to Extension Items Moved Armlet of Mordiggian to Core Items Removed Assault Cuirass  TimbersawAdded Observer Ward to Starting Items Added Hood of Defiance to Situational Items  IORemoved Animal Courier Removed Observer Wards x2 Removed Healing Salve Removed Iron Branch Wraith King Added Desolator to Extension Items Removed Monkey King Bar  Lifestealer (Core) Lifestealer (Jungle)Added Heart of Tarrasque to Extension Items Removed Monkey King Bar TimbersawNew Skill Build: E W E Q E R W W W Q R Q Q E R (1. Timber Chain 2. Whirling Death 3. Reactive Armor). Moved Black King Bar to Extension Items Removed Scythe of Vyse  Ursa (Core)New Skill Build: E Q W E W R E E W W R Q Q Q R (1. Fury Swipes 2. Overpower 3. Earthshock) Centaur Warrunner Moved Glimmer Cape to Situational Items Moved Pipe of Insight to Extension Items  PudgeAdded Eul's Scepter of Divinity to Situational Items Removed Aghanim's Scepter Removed Wind Lace  RazorNew Skill Build: W Q W Q Q E Q R W W R E E E (1. Plasma Field 2.Static Link 3. Unstable Current) Added Dragon Lance to Core Items Added Hurricane Pike to Situational Items Removed Ring of Aquila Crystal Maiden New Skill Build: W E E Q Q Q Q R E E R W W W R (1. Crystal Nova 2. Arcane Aura 3. Frostbite) Moved Blink Dagger to Core Items Moved Force Staff to Extension Items  SlardarMoved Force Staff to Extension Items Removed Monkey King Bar  Sniper (Core - Safe Lane) Sniper (Core - Middle)Added Mask of Madness to Situational Items Added Blink Dagger to Situational Items Moved Manta Style to Core Items Moved Black King Bar to Extension Items Removed Magic Wand Removed Butterfly Terrorblade Created New Tab: "Luxury Items" Added Enchanted Mango to Starting Items Added Dragon Lance to Core Items Added Hurricane Pike to Extension Items Added Boots of Travel to Extension Items Moved Drum of Endurance to Situational Items Moved Boots of Travel - Level 2 to "Luxury Items" Moved Daedalus to "Luxury Items" Moved Butterfly to "Luxury Items" Moved Satanic to "Luxury Items" Removed Ring of Protection Removed Butterfly  Brewmaster (Core)New Skill Build: W E Q Q Q R Q E E E R W W W R (1. Thunder Clap 2. Drunken Brawler 3. Drunken Haze) Drow Ranger New Skill Build: E Q E W E R E W W W R Q Q Q R (1. Precision Aura 2. Gust 3. Frost Arrows) Added Yasha to Core Items Added Blink Dagger to Situational Items Moved Manta Style to Core Items Removed Shadow Blade  Witch DoctorNew Skill Build: Q E Q W Q R Q E E E R W W W R (1. Paralyzing Cask 2. Maledict 3. Voodoo Restoration) Moved Aghanim's Scepter to Extension Items Moved Force Staff to Extension Items Removed Refresher Orb  Shadow FiendAdded Manta Style to Extension Items Moved Bottle to Core Items Removed Helm of the Dominator  PuckAdded Null Talisman to Core Items Added Veil of Discord to Core Items Removed Magic Wand Faceless Void New Skill Build: Q E Q E Q R Q E E W R W W W (1. Time Walk 2. Time Lock 3. Time Dilation Added Tango to Starting Items Added Observer Ward to Starting Items Added Quelling Blade to Early Game Added Echo Sabre to Situational Items Moved Magic Wand to Core Items Moved Diffusal Blade - Level 1 to Extension Items Removed Healing Salve Removed Faerie Fire Removed Iron Branch x2 Removed Iron Talon  Silencer (Core)New Skill Build: W Q Q E Q R Q E E E R W W W R (1. Arcane Curse 2. Last Word 3. Glaives of Wisdom) Added Null Talisman to Early Game Added Veil of Discord to Core Items Added Hurricane Pike to Extension Items Moved Force Staff to Core Items Moved Hand of Midas to Situational Items Moved Eul's Scepter of Divinity to Situational Items Removed Shadow Blade Sand King New Skill Build: Q WW Q W Q W Q R E R E E E R (1. Sand Storm 2. Burrowstrike 3. Caustic Finale) Added Clarity to Starting Items Added Glimmer Cape to Situational Items Removed Animal Courier Removed Observer Ward Removed Iron Branch x2 Removed Enchanted Mango Removed Magic Wand Removed Wind Lace Renamed Offlane Abaddon Added Stout Shield to Starting Items Moved Drum of Endurance to Situational Items Moved Sange and Yasha to Situational Items Removed Ring of Protection Removed Animal Courier  Switch to Offlane (?)Is Q maxed last? Item build now Hurricane Pike into Atos into BKB?  Move Bfury to situational items. Consider Vanguard (note: Regen for farming is easier + use blink strike + Dagger to farm faster). Vlad's to Situational Items, consider BKB to Core + One survival item [Satanic/Heart??]outdated item build  starting items late-game items | ||
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Torte de Lini
Germany38463 Posts
Max Bash second with Manta Style + Diffusal before Blink Dagger Even with the usual offlane build, still max Bash: http://www.dotabuff.com/matches/2447138580 I understand Diffusal + Manta Style means more attack speed, Bashes, mana burn during Chronosphere (with illusions working inside) + Mana burn, but is it worth the trade-off of blinking [freeing up your Time Walk] and Vlad's to farm during the early stages? | ||
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BluemoonSC
SoCal8910 Posts
youre never gonna need to use it more than once per fight anyway, which for a long while, will only be when you have chronosphere up. you get the same amount of slow per CD, just at a shorter duration..but 6s is long enough early on anyway. but again, you only want to fight around your chronosphere cooldown early and timelock doesn't increase the effectiveness of your chronosphere. R>Q>E>W | ||
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Torte de Lini
Germany38463 Posts
This guy's Mid (Core) Silencer build gets Q last, wtf? | ||
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BluemoonSC
SoCal8910 Posts
not sure i would pay any attention to that guy. | ||
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Torte de Lini
Germany38463 Posts
Not sure if I should put Diffusal Blade or Manta Style earlier as helps in fights earlier on and the other helps with farming also. (Core):I update his skill build to have an early point in W + Veil into Force Staff then Extension (Atos in Situational). I'm still not sure how to build him appropriately or if an early point in W is necessary (since we're going veil -> two Null Taslismans) | ||
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Torte de Lini
Germany38463 Posts
On June 23 2016 06:45 BluemoonSC wrote: he doesnt get a single point in his glaives in a couple of his games which is certainly not the play. in his most recent game, he also gets agha which im pretty sure is a bad idea as a core silencer. not sure i would pay any attention to that guy. I think Aghanim's is really strong, but that's because I really like Silencer's Q ability. | ||
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BluemoonSC
SoCal8910 Posts
silencer, w is 100% necessary. its an orb which allows you to harass your opponent without attracting the attention of creeps. it gives you control over the lane. On June 23 2016 06:46 Torte de Lini wrote: I think Aghanim's is really strong, but that's because I really like Silencer's Q ability. dont forget his agi gain got a huge buff this patch. you're gonna see a lot more right click/control (atos, hex, hurricane pike) than utility as a result. | ||
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Torte de Lini
Germany38463 Posts
I'm going to wait on Riki. I am 100% confident he is going to be classified as Offlane - Sub-title: Roaming, but have to break down how I want to go about it. | ||
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ahswtini
Northern Ireland22212 Posts
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BluemoonSC
SoCal8910 Posts
On June 23 2016 06:50 Torte de Lini wrote: I'll do the last 3 (OD, PA, NP) later tonight. I'm going to wait on Riki. I am 100% confident he is going to be classified as Offlane - Sub-title: Roaming, but have to break down how I want to go about it.im gonna be so mad at you if i get rikis in my pubs going offlane taking up a lane instead of playing a proper 4 position roamer lol | ||
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