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Germany38463 Posts
On June 21 2016 06:06 Sn0_Man wrote: ??? ????? there were 2 kunkka games at ESL One Frankfurt this last weekend and both were blink builds without shadowblade Sorry, I meant Manila. In public matches, they are both commonly bought Looks like support  no longer gets Meka after Aether Lens either.I feel like all the builds are now outdated and it annoys me. | ||
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Logo
United States7542 Posts
On June 21 2016 05:42 Sn0_Man wrote: pa's bad on account of you have to buy bfury to farm but there aren't that many champions that can get away with just buying a bfury with the game's pace right now and pa is definitely not one of them. In an ideal world I think PA builds like vanguard aquila into deso into abyssal into daedalus (yes daedalus) but u still don't shove waves well all u can do is fight like that which is kinda ass. U do own fights though. PS insert BKB wherever but definitely after deso otherwise u have vanguard bkb and don't do anything at all I'm not really a carry player tho also im bad etc I think the vanguard-deso-bkb-abyssal type build is pretty solid. Sure you don't push out creep waves fast, but you're still reasonably good at taking out Roshan and towers so it's not like your team is hopeless at objective gaming. Either BFury or Deso would be situational if not core though. Seems reasonable enough to imply that if you don't get one you get the other. | ||
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Germany38463 Posts
On June 21 2016 07:07 Logo wrote: I think the vanguard-deso-bkb-abyssal type build is pretty solid. Sure you don't push out creep waves fast, but you're still reasonably good at taking out Roshan and towers so it's not like your team is hopeless at objective gaming. Either BFury or Deso would be situational if not core though. Seems reasonable enough to imply that if you don't get one you get the other. Yeah, I just played PA. I feel Bfury does not have as much value long-term as I thought when you can just Blink/Dagger + Deso damage farm most lanes relatively fast. Vanguard + Aquila mitigates any health loss from jungling and mana from spamming your spells. Today's stream was a lot of fun. I learned a lot about Abaddon, Phantom Assassin and more. | ||
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Germany38463 Posts
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Germany38463 Posts
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Belisarius
Australia6231 Posts
He's played that way in like 90% of pubs and he's not some super meta hero where a new way of playing is about to trickle down. | ||
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Germany38463 Posts
On June 21 2016 14:49 Belisarius wrote: I really feel like SK should stay a support. He's played that way in like 90% of pubs and he's not some super meta hero where a new way of playing is about to trickle down. He's been played core offlane for awhile now. It's probably the thing I've noticed the most in most of my matches whereas I never see them ever support. | ||
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Germany38463 Posts
Kunkka (Core)Added Drum of Endurance to Situational Items Added Heart of Tarrasque to Extension Items Moved Armlet of Mordiggian to Core Items Removed Assault Cuirass  IORemoved Animal Courier Removed Observer Wards x2 Removed Healing Salve Removed Iron Branch  Lifestealer (Core) Lifestealer (Jungle)Added Heart of Tarrasque to Extension Items Removed Monkey King Bar  TimbersawNew Skill Build: E W E Q E R W W W Q R Q Q E R (1. Timber Chain 2. Whirling Death 3. Reactive Armor).  Ursa (Core)New Skill Build: E Q W E W R E E W W R Q Q Q R (1. Fury Swipes 2. Overpower 3. Earthshock) Centaur Warrunner Moved Glimmer Cape to Situational Items Moved Pipe of Insight to Extension Items  PudgeAdded Eul's Scepter of Divinity to Situational Items Removed Aghanim's Scepter Removed Wind Lace  RazorNew Skill Build: W Q W Q Q E Q R W W R E E E (1. Plasma Field 2.Static Link 3. Unstable Current) Added Dragon Lance to Core Items Added Hurricane Pike to Situational Items Removed Ring of Aquila Crystal Maiden New Skill Build: W E E Q Q Q Q R E E R W W W R (1. Crystal Nova 2. Arcane Aura 3. Frostbite) Moved Blink Dagger to Core Items Moved Force Staff to Extension Items  SlardarMoved Force Staff to Extension Items Removed Monkey King Bar  Sniper (Core - Safe Lane) Sniper (Core - Middle)Added Mask of Madness to Situational Items Added Blink Dagger to Situational Items Moved Manta Style to Core Items Moved Black King Bar to Extension Items Removed Magic Wand Removed Butterfly Terrorblade Created New Tab: "Luxury Items" Added Enchanted Mango to Starting Items Added Dragon Lance to Core Items Added Hurricane Pike to Extension Items Added Boots of Travel to Extension Items Moved Drum of Endurance to Situational Items Moved Boots of Travel - Level 2 to "Luxury Items" Moved Daedalus to "Luxury Items" Moved Butterfly to "Luxury Items" Moved Satanic to "Luxury Items" Removed Ring of Protection Removed Butterfly  Brewmaster (Core)New Skill Build: W E Q Q Q R Q E E E R W W W R (1. Thunder Clap 2. Drunken Brawler 3. Drunken Haze) Drow Ranger New Skill Build: E Q E W E R E W W W R Q Q Q R (1. Precision Aura 2. Gust 3. Frost Arrows) Added Yasha to Core Items Added Blink Dagger to Situational Items Moved Manta Style to Core Items Removed Shadow Blade Renamed Offlane Sand King New Skill Build: W Q W Q W Q W Q R E R E E E R (1. Sand Storm 2. Burrowstrike 3. Caustic Finale) Added Boots of Speed to Starting Items Added Clarity to Starting Items Added Glimmer Cape to Situational Items Removed Animal Courier Removed Observer Ward x2 Removed Iron Branch x2 Removed Enchanted Mango Removed Magic Wand Removed Wind Lace Removed Utility Items Renamed Offlane Abaddon Added Stout Shield to Starting Items Moved Drum of Endurance to Situational Items Moved Sange and Yasha to Situational Items Removed Ring of Protection Removed Animal Courier  Switch to Offlane (?)Is Q maxed last? Item build now Hurricane Pike into Atos into BKB? everyone is skipping Veil + Magic Wand again manta into blink into ?  Move Bfury to situational items. Consider Vanguard (note: Regen for farming is easier + use blink strike + Dagger to farm faster). Vlad's to Situational Items, consider BKB to Core + One survival item [Satanic/Heart??] earlier aghs? single early point in heal?outdated item build  Veil before Blink? Shadow Blade - Core? Midas Core?Change to Offlane?  offlane version?echo sabre, radiance? | ||
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Germany38463 Posts
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/mIDpU3w.png) Another bug. This time, it causes the Nature's Prophet Hero Build to be completely removed from in-game as from any Hero Build Steam Community Listing for Nature's Prophet. Won't load for current subscribed users, won't appear in the listing for new users to find. | ||
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Sn0_Man
Tebellong44238 Posts
why would ursa jungle level q at 2? OD: Q max before W still SF: pls no aghs ffs WD: 4-1-1-1 at 7 Gyro: pls no offlane gyro holy shit there's no reason | ||
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Sn0_Man
Tebellong44238 Posts
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Velzi
Finland659 Posts
Puck i would still say blink before Veil, i havent seen pro pucks lately for some reason but i can imagine like 99% of them going Null -> Bottle -> Boots -> Blink -> Veil -> Eul -> Aghs -> luxury. Keep DP as it is, Veil is still super good even if people skip it, prolly just games where line up was more physical damage oriented (slardar dazzle etc.) where they skipped Veil. WD wants to have atleast one point in w for sure, makes pushing after few kills so much easier, only downside is lack of early higher lvl of maledict but that skill is already too unreliable to max it first. Gyro no off. period. SF can build Aghs but i wouldnt put it Core, situationally good but dunno if its worth it to put into guide, hard to tell. Fun for sure. NP i would go back to one build with Phase Drums Mael into right click + hex. Easy to execute, high teamfight potential with high farm rate and early item timings, still doesnt make split pushing impossible if needed. Also im not a huge fan of Midas NP, u are not lvl dependent and just delay ur global presence potential by 2k gold because u have no items or damage to contribute to fights. WK Echo is fine, gives all the mana regen and mana pool needed, radi+echo doesnt add up tho, if u build Radi, u want to get items to stay alive, not items that make u hit like a truck. Also WK Radi is not the most reliable way to play the hero, Treads Armlet Blink etc. should be still fine. Void, keep it as it is, i dont see manta being Core, if u are offlane Void ur priority shouldnt be to make sure u hit hard, u should make sure can initiate reliably and stay alive further to provide aura and slow to ur team after the chrono. Blink Vlads BKB AC all better here. | ||
BluemoonSC
SoCal8910 Posts
I've also played her mid to see how that went because realistically she can farm using dagger if the lane is hard to start, then use it to out-harass the other midlaner once she's a bit stronger. will report back when i achieve consistency ---------- WK echo sabre is a necessity and is completely separate from a radiance build ---------- DP veil is too good. remember that her soul siphon is percentage based, so removing enemy's magic resistance (also percentage-based) is quite nice. it also gives her some tank-ability to be able to soul siphon during a team fight. going 2x null talisman early is already good, so this just naturally builds off of that. wand is debatable. I'm not 100% there. ---------- Riki is a roamer that can transition into a core if he does really well. putting him offlane is silly because his lack of lane presence alerts teams that he is roaming on them..unpredictability is part of the reason heroes like bounty and riki are successful roamers..you have to be aware that you could get ganked at any time and it forces sentries in pretty much every lane. ---------- SF agha is another build I've been playing around with. i've experienced a higher level of success with yasha into agha. the movement speed allows him to move between camps and lane faster and it reduces his reliance on razes to cut through creeps. that said, blink is a similar cost and allows for blinking, then ulting in an ideal position. this is something else that i've been playing around with, but agha, to me, is now a core item. also..refresher >>>> octarine with an agha build. ---------- WD single point in heal is beyond valuable. ---------- puck - veil before blink is good for the same reasons i listed from DP, more so because he can still initiate with orb. i have been literally crushed with this build after building a HUGE lead and dominating the puck mid. the burst that can come from him + some other magic dmg is insane. ---------- silencer - believe it or not, again, veil first has been my build and i haven't lost with it yet this patch. i go veil into utility every game, no lothar. that said, i can see why some people are getting the shadow blade. I'm on the fence about it because it doesn't offer any form of stats to improve his survivability, but its still ok. i wouldn't get it just for the +aspd either because his agi gain is absurd this patch. you right click soooooo fast even if you don't build for it. ---------- WR - I've seen a lot of offlane WR this patch and I'm not impressed. i still think she's better mid. situationally vs melee cores, she's fine but she won't last hit if she's being zoned and she needs gold, not just XP to be successful, especially at lower levels of play. shackle still doesn't make sense to me tho XD ---------- Gyro offline makes zero sense. that hero has NO attack range lol. originally wasn't gonna comment on everything but i felt obligated to XD .. let me know what you think | ||
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Torte de Lini
Germany38463 Posts
On June 21 2016 23:46 Sn0_Man wrote: I don't think razor maxes E over W very often why would ursa jungle level q at 2? OD: Q max before W still SF: pls no aghs ffs WD: 4-1-1-1 at 7 Gyro: pls no offlane gyro holy shit there's no reason http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=128752632 - Ursa doesn't get Q if jungling. | ||
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Sn0_Man
Tebellong44238 Posts
Ursa (Jungle) New Skill Build: E Q W E W R E E W W R Q Q Q R | ||
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Germany38463 Posts
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Germany38463 Posts
On June 22 2016 01:03 BluemoonSC wrote: I've been working on a viable PA build, but it seems like she needs to get a bfury to farm. I've also played her mid to see how that went because realistically she can farm using dagger if the lane is hard to start, then use it to out-harass the other midlaner once she's a bit stronger. will report back when i achieve consistency ---------- WK echo sabre is a necessity and is completely separate from a radiance build ---------- DP veil is too good. remember that her soul siphon is percentage based, so removing enemy's magic resistance (also percentage-based) is quite nice. it also gives her some tank-ability to be able to soul siphon during a team fight. going 2x null talisman early is already good, so this just naturally builds off of that. wand is debatable. I'm not 100% there. ---------- Riki is a roamer that can transition into a core if he does really well. putting him offlane is silly because his lack of lane presence alerts teams that he is roaming on them..unpredictability is part of the reason heroes like bounty and riki are successful roamers..you have to be aware that you could get ganked at any time and it forces sentries in pretty much every lane. ---------- SF agha is another build I've been playing around with. i've experienced a higher level of success with yasha into agha. the movement speed allows him to move between camps and lane faster and it reduces his reliance on razes to cut through creeps. that said, blink is a similar cost and allows for blinking, then ulting in an ideal position. this is something else that i've been playing around with, but agha, to me, is now a core item. also..refresher >>>> octarine with an agha build. ---------- WD single point in heal is beyond valuable. ---------- puck - veil before blink is good for the same reasons i listed from DP, more so because he can still initiate with orb. i have been literally crushed with this build after building a HUGE lead and dominating the puck mid. the burst that can come from him + some other magic dmg is insane. ---------- silencer - believe it or not, again, veil first has been my build and i haven't lost with it yet this patch. i go veil into utility every game, no lothar. that said, i can see why some people are getting the shadow blade. I'm on the fence about it because it doesn't offer any form of stats to improve his survivability, but its still ok. i wouldn't get it just for the +aspd either because his agi gain is absurd this patch. you right click soooooo fast even if you don't build for it. ---------- WR - I've seen a lot of offlane WR this patch and I'm not impressed. i still think she's better mid. situationally vs melee cores, she's fine but she won't last hit if she's being zoned and she needs gold, not just XP to be successful, especially at lower levels of play. shackle still doesn't make sense to me tho XD ---------- Gyro offline makes zero sense. that hero has NO attack range lol. originally wasn't gonna comment on everything but i felt obligated to XD .. let me know what you think ok What explains the sudden stop of usage/purchase right as Frankfurt started and since? "Roaming" is not a title category, it has to be set as either offlane/middle/jungle/core/support, so I can't put "roaming" except as a sub-title ok ok isn't it too telegraphed without blink? Orb, veil, ult, silence? yes that was my feeling as well, not sure about veil per seAlready have a mid core, need something else because she cannot safe lane. On June 21 2016 23:46 Sn0_Man wrote: I don't think razor maxes E over W very often why would ursa jungle level q at 2? OD: Q max before W still SF: pls no aghs ffs WD: 4-1-1-1 at 7 Gyro: pls no offlane gyro holy shit there's no reason I'm getting conflicting skill builds, also item build? I'd like to know why not? ok I have a mid and safe lane build and would like to change 1.On June 22 2016 00:44 Velzi wrote: WR no change to offlane, u pretty much do the same thing from the offlane than the mid except if u struggle u can go utility (blink force hex whatever). Mid is way better position to play WR imo, offlane is too hard to make sure u get farm to abuse ur ridiculous ult. Puck i would still say blink before Veil, i havent seen pro pucks lately for some reason but i can imagine like 99% of them going Null -> Bottle -> Boots -> Blink -> Veil -> Eul -> Aghs -> luxury. Keep DP as it is, Veil is still super good even if people skip it, prolly just games where line up was more physical damage oriented (slardar dazzle etc.) where they skipped Veil. WD wants to have atleast one point in w for sure, makes pushing after few kills so much easier, only downside is lack of early higher lvl of maledict but that skill is already too unreliable to max it first. Gyro no off. period. SF can build Aghs but i wouldnt put it Core, situationally good but dunno if its worth it to put into guide, hard to tell. Fun for sure. NP i would go back to one build with Phase Drums Mael into right click + hex. Easy to execute, high teamfight potential with high farm rate and early item timings, still doesnt make split pushing impossible if needed. Also im not a huge fan of Midas NP, u are not lvl dependent and just delay ur global presence potential by 2k gold because u have no items or damage to contribute to fights. WK Echo is fine, gives all the mana regen and mana pool needed, radi+echo doesnt add up tho, if u build Radi, u want to get items to stay alive, not items that make u hit like a truck. Also WK Radi is not the most reliable way to play the hero, Treads Armlet Blink etc. should be still fine. Void, keep it as it is, i dont see manta being Core, if u are offlane Void ur priority shouldnt be to make sure u hit hard, u should make sure can initiate reliably and stay alive further to provide aura and slow to ur team after the chrono. Blink Vlads BKB AC all better here. okok ok ok I figured the increased damage + ult was very goodits a dead guide I won't add radiance, was just putting notes Manta Style seems to be the only consistent item being bought on FV right now. | ||
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Sn0_Man
Tebellong44238 Posts
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tehh4ck3r
Magrathea7048 Posts
On June 22 2016 05:27 Sn0_Man wrote: the correct change is to delete mid gyro so... if you insist on not deleting guides then keep mid and safelane, don't change mid to offlane | ||
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Torte de Lini
Germany38463 Posts
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