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Torte de Lini
Germany38463 Posts
New title already requested to a mod. To do: Add "to verify" to the to-do list. Link the hero list on the front page with the guides for easy access. Advertise on Reddit for help On October 24 2013 05:23 noax wrote: dude man you are fucking dedicated, just so many thumbs up for you man! Thank you (: ! I really like Dota | ||
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Torte de Lini
Germany38463 Posts
This topic is aimed to create "standard" play guides for average pub games and typically newer players. These guides are updated regularly and used by myself as well as others. I incorporate and accept all feedback so long as it is justified or it makes sense and I always try to get second-opinions on everything suggested. I am not the best player or even beyond average, I just like the effort of elevating everyone's capabilities to improve and integrating in-game hero guides to everyday use to help ease people into new characters. When I posted my initial guides on the first 20 or so heroes, I got a lot of great feedback from everyone and so I tried to implement guides for all the heroes. I ended up expanding to over 106 heroes and have quite a few more to go. While some guides are not ideal positions for some heroes, some people prefer to play them that way and I try to accommodate to all styles. To note:
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/gtyxfJl.png) Dedicated contributors become a part of the hero's contributors tab. It is purely a way to reward users who have helped and not a high-score or anything more. It is at my own discretion and is given to those who have really dedicated themselves to improving that hero throughout the way. I hope this helps~ Below are the list of heroes currently completed. You can subscribe to guides here and they will apply in-game automatically as well: Abaddon Alchemist Ancient Apparition Anti-Mage Axe Bane Batrider Beastmaster Bloodseeker Bounty Hunter Brewmaster Bristleback Broodmother Centaur Warruner Chaos Knight Chen Clinkz Clockwerk Crystal Maiden Dark Seer Dazzle Death Prophet Disruptor Doom [Jungle] Doom [Lane] Dragon Knight Drow Ranger Earthshaker Elder Titan Enchantress Engima Faceless Void Gyrocopter Huskar Invoker IO Jakiro Juggernaut Keeper of the Light Kunkka Leshrac Lich Lifestealer Lina Lion Lone Druid [Jungle] Lone Druid [Lane] Luna Lycanthrope Magnus Medusa Meepo Mirana Morphling Naga Siren Nature's Prophet Necrolyte Night Stalker Nyx Assassin Ogre Magi Omniknight Outworld Destroyer Phantom Assassin Phantom Lancer Puck Pudge Pugna Queen of Pain Razor Riki Rubick Sand King Shadow Demon Shadow Fiend Shadow Shaman Silencer Skeleton King Skywrath Mage [Middle] Slardar Slark [Middle] Slark [Lane] Sniper Spectre Spirit Breaker Storm Spirit Sven Templar Assassin Tidehunter Timerbsaw Tinker Tiny [Lane] Tiny [Middle] Treant Protector Troll Warlord Tusk Undying Ursa Vengeful Spirit Venomancer Viper Visage Warlock Weaver Windrunner Witch Doctor Zeus Redirect to most recent change (post): 6.79 - Saturday, Hero Guide revamp 6.79 - Sunday-Monday, Hero Guide revamp 6.79 - Tuesday-Wednesday, Hero Guide revamp To-do Guides:
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Torte de Lini
Germany38463 Posts
Now on Reddit (: Hoping to get some good feedback on how to better these builds! Some minor fixes going to need to check on a lot of the new guides, but I will get to them tonight or after my vacation! thanks! | ||
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benemann
Germany33 Posts
Overall great guide. But I think Drums is a waste most of the time because getting a faster manta will usually help you out more while also giving more stats. I would also only get an MKB when there's no hero you can cleave off of to deal damage to their evasion carriers. To add to that, getting an early quelling balde and holdin gonto it until after you finish your Manta helps you out immensly. It lets you clear waves much faster and if you ever teamfight near creeps, you can cleave people for even more damage without having to run into the danger zone. | ||
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Torte de Lini
Germany38463 Posts
On October 24 2013 20:58 benemann wrote: Reposting this from the workshop page of your Tiny guide because I don't know if you read those: Overall great guide. But I think Drums is a waste most of the time because getting a faster manta will usually help you out more while also giving more stats. I would also only get an MKB when there's no hero you can cleave off of to deal damage to their evasion carriers. To add to that, getting an early quelling balde and holdin gonto it until after you finish your Manta helps you out immensly. It lets you clear waves much faster and if you ever teamfight near creeps, you can cleave people for even more damage without having to run into the danger zone. Hey, Monkey King Bar is 100% spot-on and I'll add that (edit: oh, it's already in there as situational items!) I'm not sure if we should really skip Drums of Endurance because of how much it lines up with what Tiny wants until he gets Manta Style, especially if he needs to contribute to team-fights unexpectedly. It could be just more of a personal choice to skip it rather than the norm. I can see the validity, but I'd double-check on that as well! I like the idea of quelling blade though, I might put it as situational or even starting items if I can fit it in the starting gold so it is really nice to have given how much farm you need. Are you 100% sure it works with cleave attacks? | ||
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The Irate Turk
285 Posts
Thanks for your efforts! some comments: -with OD you usually max W first and not the E. -The author's ability notes for abaddon's curse of avernus don't match the skill build -You never really want to build an AC on meepo (or a mek). His damage comes from his poof, so the core items are (in no order) aghs, blink dagger, BOT, heart. A second heart would be better than an AC. A dagon 5 is always fun when you are crushing. -For ET, the build bulba used earlier this month vs alliance appears to be the one that is strongest. Max W and E skipping your ult and Q until both are level 4. Then you can put a point in Q at level 9 then ult at 10 and 11. Do not underestimate how powerful his passive is. I will check out some of the others, but thanks once again for your hard work  | ||
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The Irate Turk
285 Posts
edit: skill build aims to get 2 points in glimpse before maxing thunder strike: Q, E, Q, W, W, R, Q, Q,W, W, R max E | ||
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Vataro
6 Posts
I think shadow blade should at least be a situational item... the increased cooldown does make it not as good as it used to be, but I think it's still a great initiation item that also provides beneficial stats for Slark (Attack Damage and Attack Speed). Most people will not be carrying around a gem or randomly placing sentries just to avoid initiation from a shadow blade unless there are other invis heroes on the team, since they no longer help against Slark's ult. Thus, the longer cooldown does not affect him as much as it would other heroes who might also want to use it as an escape mechanism. Those are just my thoughts, however... I typically only play in the high skill bracket (not very high), but I figure that the guides are meant for people in my bracket and lower anyway. Thanks! | ||
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Louis8k8
Canada285 Posts
On October 25 2013 00:03 Vataro wrote: Copying my comments re: Slark mid guide from reddit. I think shadow blade should at least be a situational item... the increased cooldown does make it not as good as it used to be, but I think it's still a great initiation item that also provides beneficial stats for Slark (Attack Damage and Attack Speed). Most people will not be carrying around a gem or randomly placing sentries just to avoid initiation from a shadow blade unless there are other invis heroes on the team, since they no longer help against Slark's ult. Thus, the longer cooldown does not affect him as much as it would other heroes who might also want to use it as an escape mechanism. Those are just my thoughts, however... I typically only play in the high skill bracket (not very high), but I figure that the guides are meant for people in my bracket and lower anyway. Thanks! I am reposting my support for your suggestion as well. Shadowblade is very important for a squishy ganker after the cooldown extension. He can precast dark pact in anticipation for dust. If you don't cast it before Slark stealths or right when he does, your dust will already not be in range to get him. Sentry wards give bounties. This makes dewarding much more aggressive in team fights. Dewarding at the fight should be part of the teamwork. Gem is a terrible item on supports against Slark. He will prioritize you and use his ult to kill you just to steal your gem. Putting it on your 1 and 2 is worse because that's 1 slot wasted on a statless item. And Vataro, Stealth is significantly more effective the lower the bracket it is. People have worse warding and worse map awareness. | ||
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Vataro
6 Posts
On October 25 2013 00:14 Louis8k8 wrote: I am reposting my support for your suggestion as well. Shadowblade is very important for a squishy ganker after the cooldown extension. He can precast dark pact in anticipation for dust. If you don't cast it before Slark stealths or right when he does, your dust will already not be in range to get him. Sentry wards give bounties. This makes dewarding much more aggressive in team fights. Dewarding at the fight should be part of the teamwork. Gem is a terrible item on supports against Slark. He will prioritize you and use his ult to kill you just to steal your gem. Putting it on your 1 and 2 is worse because that's 1 slot wasted on a statless item. And Vataro, Stealth is significantly more effective the lower the bracket it is. People have worse warding and worse map awareness. Good point about Stealth and lower brackets. In my bracket, I've found most games people will buy detection as long as there is more than 1 stealth hero on the enemy team. With only one, they are much less likely to do so (depending on the hero). Even if they do, as I mentioned earlier, it's unlikely to matter to Slark, who is primarily using the shadowblade as an intitation tool. I'm also reposting my comments on Armlet vs Shadowblade here (again from Reddit): Armlet's total cost is 2600, only 400 less than Shadowblade. Its passive stats are +7 HP Regen (not needed on slark with passive), +5 armor (not needed on Slark when he has ult up), then +9 Damage and +22 Attack speed (both inferior to Shadowblade). The active does make Armlet superior from a pure damage standpoint, and I will definitely have to try it at some point, but I think it's not as useful overall as it is on Strength heroes since Slark doesn't benefit as much from the +strength (and his hp pool cannot support keeping it on outside of his ult for long). I also feel that slark actually lacks initiation potential without shadowblade (the movespeed and invisibility/element of surprise are supremely useful, and make the subsequent pounce to keep them from running away much better (as opposed to pouncing as an initiation tool, making it more likely to run out before you kill them, not to mention increasing the odds of someone missing the pounce). | ||
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Vataro
6 Posts
I would say it would have to substitute the Armlet, as they are both the same mid-tier level item. By the time you got both you wouldn't be able to get BKB up in a reasonable amount of time, or further transition into the basher/abyssal. As for when to get what, I think it primarily depends on enemy team comp. If they have several squishy heroes, shadowblade will be superior due to giving you more burst killing / ganking potential. Armlet will be more useful against less squishy lineups, where fighting may be more prolonged. Also, if you get off to a bad start and need a catch up item, Armlet I think will be your better bet (due to more individual components that can be bought for less individually compared to shadowblade so it's easier to build over time, and it does give you more survivability). | ||
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Chaosquo
Germany154 Posts
On October 24 2013 21:57 The Irate Turk wrote: From reddit: Thanks for your efforts! some comments: -with OD you usually max W first and not the E. -The author's ability notes for abaddon's curse of avernus don't match the skill build -You never really want to build an AC on meepo (or a mek). His damage comes from his poof, so the core items are (in no order) aghs, blink dagger, BOT, heart. A second heart would be better than an AC. A dagon 5 is always fun when you are crushing. -For ET, the build bulba used earlier this month vs alliance appears to be the one that is strongest. Max W and E skipping your ult and Q until both are level 4. Then you can put a point in Q at level 9 then ult at 10 and 11. Do not underestimate how powerful his passive is. I will check out some of the others, but thanks once again for your hard work I disagree with almost all of this: - OD usually maxes E, because he can easily run out of mana if he gets bad luck. I would however move BKB to situational. - Abaddon skill description is fine, read it again. - Meepo does a ton of damage later with right clicks, and he doesnt have a good agi growth, making armor quite sought after. I would fix the intro of your guide, you dont even list tranqs and mek is situational. - Even if you go 0-4-4-0, you want to end up 2-4-4-1 on lvl 11. Since this is a middle guide, I would advocate this skill build and going phase-drum into utility items like bkb/hex/shiva. Some other comments: - Bat: He mostly relies on napalm stacks for last hits, and 900 gold for phase delays the blink force too much imo. - Bane: I would remove the soul ring, since it doesnt offer any combat stats, and this guide is for a support bane. - BM: I think this guide is most suited to dire offlane with ancients stacking, otherwise the soul ring is not that good. I would advocate to change this into a middle guide with bottle instead of soul ring and getting some early points into aura for better rune control (also remove the wards in this case and maybe add a gem and mention the interaction with hawk). - PA: I dont believe Bfury should be core on her, just phase drums bkb abyssal - Timbersaw: I would remove Platemail from Core, since he could also get hex after bloodstone. Also bot is usually the followup to bloodstone. | ||
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synapse
China13814 Posts
On October 24 2013 21:57 The Irate Turk wrote: From reddit: Thanks for your efforts! some comments: -with OD you usually max W first and not the E. -The author's ability notes for abaddon's curse of avernus don't match the skill build -You never really want to build an AC on meepo (or a mek). His damage comes from his poof, so the core items are (in no order) aghs, blink dagger, BOT, heart. A second heart would be better than an AC. A dagon 5 is always fun when you are crushing. -For ET, the build bulba used earlier this month vs alliance appears to be the one that is strongest. Max W and E skipping your ult and Q until both are level 4. Then you can put a point in Q at level 9 then ult at 10 and 11. Do not underestimate how powerful his passive is. I will check out some of the others, but thanks once again for your hard work You need essence aura, especially now that tranquils can't be used to proc it. You need the aura maxed as soon as possible so you can start using orbs without worrying about mana. The fourth point of W is also prohibitively long when you want to set up kills. I would normally go 0/3/4/0 then 1 point in orb or ulti depending on the situation. That is exclusively if you're playing a first position meepo, which is usually not the case. On October 24 2013 21:07 Torte de Lini wrote: Hey, Monkey King Bar is 100% spot-on and I'll add that (edit: oh, it's already in there as situational items!) I'm not sure if we should really skip Drums of Endurance because of how much it lines up with what Tiny wants until he gets Manta Style, especially if he needs to contribute to team-fights unexpectedly. It could be just more of a personal choice to skip it rather than the norm. I can see the validity, but I'd double-check on that as well! I like the idea of quelling blade though, I might put it as situational or even starting items if I can fit it in the starting gold so it is really nice to have given how much farm you need. Are you 100% sure it works with cleave attacks? I know aui2k always built treads straight into aghs for his carry tiny. It depends on how you want to play the hero: some like a stronger fighting tiny in the early-mid game (drums/yasha/shadowblade etc.) while others prefer to rush aghs since it boosts your farming speed by so much. | ||
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Torte de Lini
Germany38463 Posts
On October 25 2013 01:35 Chaosquo wrote: I disagree with almost all of this: - OD usually maxes E, because he can easily run out of mana if he gets bad luck. I would however move BKB to situational. - Abaddon skill description is fine, read it again. - Meepo does a ton of damage later with right clicks, and he doesnt have a good agi growth, making armor quite sought after. I would fix the intro of your guide, you dont even list tranqs and mek is situational. - Even if you go 0-4-4-0, you want to end up 2-4-4-1 on lvl 11. Since this is a middle guide, I would advocate this skill build and going phase-drum into utility items like bkb/hex/shiva. Some other comments: - Bat: He mostly relies on napalm stacks for last hits, and 900 gold for phase delays the blink force too much imo. - Bane: I would remove the soul ring, since it doesnt offer any combat stats, and this guide is for a support bane. - BM: I think this guide is most suited to dire offlane with ancients stacking, otherwise the soul ring is not that good. I would advocate to change this into a middle guide with bottle instead of soul ring and getting some early points into aura for better rune control (also remove the wards in this case and maybe add a gem and mention the interaction with hawk). - PA: I dont believe Bfury should be core on her, just phase drums bkb abyssal - Timbersaw: I would remove Platemail from Core, since he could also get hex after bloodstone. Also bot is usually the followup to bloodstone. Hello! - Thanks for your help! I'm not sure what you are referring to with Meepo. What would be the ideal items that I am missing in my guide? - And what are you referring too with the middle guide? - I like Soul Ring on Bane a lot considering how useful it is to spam your Life Sap, should I still remove it? I might put urn instead! - I am intended to make a middle guide for BeastMaster! - Why not BF on PA? Isn't it especially strong given her ultimate? | ||
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Sn0_Man
Tebellong44238 Posts
Basically, If bane is casting abilities EITHER he's killing the enemies OR its something defensive like nightmare. Either way there isn't really a situation that requires a soul ring. Soul ring is ideal on heroes who use it to farm (DS, Enigma) or gankers who wish to maximise on-the-map time like zeus (this is NOT bane. Bane is fine going back to base post engagement since hes a support and probably has to wait for ulti cooldown anyway). Meanwhile manaboots, blink, force, wards and even a BKB are all far too important to postpone with a soul ring. Re: Battlefury. Its fundamentally a farming item since cleave clears creeps and the regen saves you from going back to base. However, most people find that if your carry can't split push (something that PA isn't very good at), there is little reason for said carry to afkrice over buying early-fight items like BKB and just contribute that way. PA farms fast enough without a bfury and can fight very well with BKB/Basher/Armlet/HotD/Drums etc so those are preferred (obviously not all of them). Bfury is a fine situational item for the games where you just have to rice it up, but shouldn't be "core". When he says "0-4-4-0 into 2-4-4-1" he is referring to ET. I can't comment on what is most efficient as that hero right now. Meepo needs a ton more exploration right now IMO, although mek is all of a sudden desirable again if you can't rush aghs since 0% stat share makes mek kinda important again. Treads into BoTs late game are I think the only boots that are good right now. Meepo starts with fine base armor and tranquils not helping your spare meepos jungle anymore makes them useless IMO. A vlads or mek fixes your midgame armor problems IMO. | ||
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ChillyWI
United States4 Posts
Spectre should have phase instead of treads and have drum as a core item. Drum provides the additional survivability needed plus the ability to participate in team fights much earlier (just needs boots, drum, diffusal). Faceless Void needs a Necrobook in his guide as a situational item. You can actually skip the battlefury and go crit + Necrobook to get him into team fights much earlier. It's still a great item mid-late game, though, especially if the enemy team has invis heroes or a lot of counter-push (not to mention they can scout Rosh now). edit: As an aside, I actually really like Soul Ring on Bane. It not only helps laning, but also guarantees you have enough mana mid game until you get those bigger items up. You can also often skip a bit of regen, depending on whether you'll need to use them on your carry or not. | ||
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Sn0_Man
Tebellong44238 Posts
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ChillyWI
United States4 Posts
On October 25 2013 03:11 Sn0_Man wrote: Necrobook's terrible on void though... No, it's not. The summoned units work inside your Chronosphere. It's a core part of a mid-game build for Void, as opposed to a late-game build. Necrobook's buff and the changes to the Rosh timer make it even better. You get attack speed buff, much higher damage output, mana burn, and invis detection in an item that has a relatively easy build-up. | ||
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SilverStar
Sweden18511 Posts
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Sn0_Man
Tebellong44238 Posts
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