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On September 05 2013 04:37 Plansix wrote:
There are some amazingly high rated guides out there with Bloodstone all over the place. I saw one for Lina that had Bloodstone as core and Force staff as "situational" and they are so highly rated. It makes me so grumpy.
I try not to get too bothered by it because you can't exactly tell Reddit or another place to crusade rate your guides up.
I honestly feel consistent hard-work and leading small innovations will get the right guides up :D
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Added Shiva's Guard to Puck
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I am not a Lone Druid player by any means but Mjollnir is so-so and not a core item on him. If you don't go the radiance build on LD it's usually Phase -> Maelstrom -> Basher/AC -> AC/Basher. Mjollnir as core delays those very important items.
EDIT: Also you might want to write that one can go AC before basher depending on the situation. As far as I've seen AC first seems to be more of the norm.
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Lalalaland34507 Posts
Starting items are fine. Hero core items are fine.
Mjollnir is definitely not core, it's only situational. I'd put Radiance in core and say 'if you don't think you'll be able to finish your Radiance by the 25 minute mark at the latest, then farm a Maelstrom instead'. You don't even need to upgrade the Maelstrom to a full Mjollnir before going for AC/Basher etc. Basher should also be an extension bear item rather than core. Luxury hero items should be a casual Cloak instead of a full Hood of Defiance. Heart is pretty meh and I'd take it out.
Skill build is fine.
Phase boots - it's not that it can't use Treads, it's that Phase helps massively with chasing heroes down with speed and phase to get Entangles off.
Mention that OOV should be gotten early in the laning stage rather than later.
I'd say Midas before eight minute mark at latest, if it's past that then farm something else.
Ghost Scepter - you should mention 'if you're targeted by physical damage' else they'll pick it up against a magic team without knowing better.
Hood - should be a Cloak rather than a full Hood. The regen you gain from a full Hood is not worth the gold you spend on it.
Vlads - I wouldn't say this is an item to get 'much, much later'. It's a perfectly valid early pick up after you finish two big items on the bear.
True Form - keep it simple and say that they should stay permanently in True Form after they hit level 8 or so.
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Updated. I kept heart however.
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Lalalaland34507 Posts
Why? The way LD is played is you send your bear in to siege towers while you stay outside, so the fast regen on yourself isn't useful. You're already incredibly tanky thanks to true form.
The only time I'd ever consider heart is if I was going for the legendary 12 slot LD and somehow was still not tanky enough with Cloak/Scepter/Butterfly/AC aura/True Form, which is like...never.
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I added butterfly instead.
What I'm having trouble is conveying which order items should be built between you and the bear.
Both are listed as core, but which is more essential/should be bought first.
If Radiance is core, shouldn't it be before phase, etc. etc.
THe items are right, the conveying of order of purchase is difficult.,
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On September 07 2013 22:27 Torte de Lini wrote:
I added butterfly instead.
What I'm having trouble is conveying which order items should be built between you and the bear.
Both are listed as core, but which is more essential/should be bought first.
If Radiance is core, shouldn't it be before phase, etc. etc.
THe items are right, the conveying of order of purchase is difficult.,
Best advice I can give is to put Core as the stuff you can barely function without (Phase Tranqs Radi) and shove everything else under Situational.
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Yes, I know that.
But items even within core must be bought within a certain order. If the Bear and Lone Druid both have core items, how do you convey to newcomers which has a priority?
Does one finish phase before starting tranquil, do you buy both boots before upgrading them? etc. I'm not asking personally, I'm asking how to convey that via the guide system.
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On September 07 2013 23:26 Torte de Lini wrote:
Yes, I know that.
But items even within core must be bought within a certain order. If the Bear and Lone Druid both have core items, how do you convey to newcomers which has a priority?
Does one finish phase before starting tranquil, do you buy both boots before upgrading them? etc. I'm not asking personally, I'm asking how to convey that via the guide system.
Well, in this situation, the order doesn't matter quite as much. Radiance rush is fine if you've got solid farm, finishing Phase and Tranqs doesn't set you behind THAT much (compared to, say, finishing AC first) and gives you a lot more combat potential, and brown boots into Radi works as well on a sort of middle ground. Judging the OPTIMAL thing to do isn't so easy, of course. There's no real way to indicate item progression on any hero, though, so I wouldn't call this a huge concern so long as you've got Radi as the only big core item.
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There's no real way to indicate item progression on any hero, though, so I wouldn't call this a huge concern so long as you've got Radi as the only big core item.
Yes, this what I'm trying to figure out and it's pretty important to when to start building your lone druid and when to think about the bear. Otherwise, someone could finish all of bear then get boots for Lone Druid without knowing.
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On September 07 2013 23:40 Torte de Lini wrote:Show nested quote +There's no real way to indicate item progression on any hero, though, so I wouldn't call this a huge concern so long as you've got Radi as the only big core item. Yes, this what I'm trying to figure out and it's pretty important to when to start building your lone druid and when to think about the bear. Otherwise, someone could finish all of bear then get boots for Lone Druid without knowing.
Well, hopefully they have the brains to consider "hey, I really need more movespeed here, let's get boots" at some point in time. If they can't even think with that basic level of strategy and game analysis, then they probably wouldn't have a fun time with Lone Druid anyway.
No matter what, you can't teach a complete scrub how to play Lone Druid with just that little item guide. All it's going to do is serve as a little reminder list for better players. Anyone who wants to play him will use their own initiative to find a guide or figure it out on their own. The people who don't will not be helped by a clever order of items in Core Items.
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I don't think getting just Malestrom for the bear is sufficient.
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Lalalaland34507 Posts
It is. The Hyperstone that you get can either be used for a Mjollnir (requiring a 600 gold recipe, yet the active is not usable on the bear unless you transfer it back and forth between bear and hero) or for a faster AC. AC always wins.
If you want to complete the full Mjollnir later after a few more items like Basher etc then it's fine, but for starters Maelstrom into AC is much better.
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I feel Maelstrom adds the attack speed I really want rather than deviating all the way to AC for 45 less attack speed.
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On September 08 2013 21:29 Torte de Lini wrote:
I feel Maelstrom adds the attack speed I really want rather than deviating all the way to AC for 45 less attack speed.
why deviating to AC, its one of the core items on the bear since it doesnt get more armor by leveling up and its needs some sort of armor item and it's great against towers which is what you want to use your bear to kill anyway
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Ah, I was thinking more in team-fights. I find that the bear isn't proccing enough and wearing down foes fast enough before I die.
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Lalalaland34507 Posts
On September 08 2013 21:34 Torte de Lini wrote:
Ah, I was thinking more in team-fights. I find that the bear isn't proccing enough and wearing down foes fast enough before I die.
This strikes me as a positioning/gameplay issue, not an item issue.
AC + Maelstrom is much stronger than Mjollnir + half an AC.
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You're right.
Btw, does jungle LD play any different?
Also, is Orb of Venom truly core?
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EPT
