In-Game Standard Hero Builds Project - Page 261

On January 05 2016 11:49 Thetwinmasters wrote:
bash at level 1 for fv is wrong 99% of the time for guide level players

On January 05 2016 13:21 Belisarius wrote:
I honestly don't know why you're fixating on void so much. Just pick something that's not terrible - the current build is fine - and then wait and see.

These guides are "standard". It seems to me that their purpose should not be to speculate, but to report what's established. When nothing's established, just be conservative.

On January 06 2016 03:33 Buckyman wrote:


Repeating this because you missed it the first time.

I arrived at this conclusion by substituting circlet+branch for slippers in my games, because I wanted the extra max HP before Aquila, then reversing back to slippers+branch because you prefer slippers.

The branch typically becomes an extra tango about 5 minutes in, but also shores up Drow's level 1 weakness a bit.

On January 05 2016 11:29 TheYango wrote:
We're still in the honeymoon period with a new patch where people love it and think everything's viable.

Once we get to the point where the super-broken thing of the patch starts getting abused and we realize 90% of the things people tried are just bad, one of them will probably emerge as being way better than the other.

On January 06 2016 13:02 Belisarius wrote:
A minor note on drow, I think she should have yasha in core and manta in extension. If you have SnY in situational it makes sense to start with yasha and choose. Also, as usual for pretty much any ranged hero, I would never be planning from the start of the game to pick up manta as second major item.

On January 05 2016 17:18 Velzi wrote:


I never said void is not a good offlaner right now, but i still think he is better in safelane. Problem i see with the offlane void is that if u put 1-2k player to solo offlane with void, they think the guide is fine until the point they use their first chrono to kill someone and they dont have damage output they think they have with void. Another problem with void is that if u build blink early with it, u are so dependent on to get a chrono that u are useless if u fuck it up even a bit (like magnus rp or enigma bh kinda style). Actually u can fuck up even more with void by chronoing ur own team (which is more than likely to happen in low brackets when u panic and do before thinking).

Im fine if u guys really think we should focus on putting void to exclusively offlane, but safelane is still the place for me until we get more data work on (and my data shows safe is better right now).

E: As someone said, we should have 2 guides but since its not possible at the moment i think we should focus on one rather than just throwing up useful items for both guides. And like i said earlier i dont see the reasoning behind blink first but if thats what majority wants who am i saying its not the item.

E2: Torte, ur guide is now maxing Time Lock over Time Walk, is that intented? (i think all agreed on maxing q over e earlier already). Linkens is actually interesting idea, have to look more into it.

On January 06 2016 13:02 Belisarius wrote:
A minor note on drow, I think she should have yasha in core and manta in extension. If you have SnY in situational it makes sense to start with yasha and choose. Also, as usual for pretty much any ranged hero, I would never be planning from the start of the game to pick up manta as second major item.

On January 06 2016 15:38 Torte de Lini wrote:


I prefer the guide makes a hard-decision for the user and then have them contemplate the value of both items over leaving it open-ended. I believe I did this for another hero about a year ago and it ended being more slots taken for choices over being an actual guide.

Manta or BKB is interchangeable in slots and in timing. Initially, BKB was always Core and fairly early and I've been pushing it further and further back for users to debate its value (sometimes even going to Extension choice). I'm not sure if we should consider pushing BKB to be earlier or allow users to play a bit more greedy.

On January 07 2016 02:37 Velzi wrote:
Some supports missing double obs start (IIRC it is standard now?) Rubick,Disruptor,Dazzle.

Chen has 3x GG Branch start. Any particular reason? U dont usually build Wand for Chen and Mekansm uses only 2 branches. There is no tangoes in the build either to abuse double regen with one branch.

Checked most of the supports builds, they seemed fine atleast for me (i dont play a lot of supports, only the few chosen ones).

On January 07 2016 02:43 TheYango wrote:
It's just very unlikely to have the item progression listed under "core" ever. Most people read the guides as "buy the core items in order then buy some of the extension ones, but actually progressing HoD->Manta->BKB is quite awkward.

You're more likely to do it with S&Y because S&Y is more efficient straight-up while Manta is an item that only gets more cost-efficient with more stat items. With Manta you're more likely to go HoD->Yasha->other stuff->Manta later so the build as listed is just very unusual.