EPTIn-Game Standard Hero Builds Project - Page 185
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Torte de Lini
Germany38463 Posts
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TheYango
United States47024 Posts
On June 17 2015 15:58 Torte de Lini wrote: I'm pretty sure you do max it or you slip in another Jinada before actually maxing it no? Jinada second vs. Shadow Walk second is like 50/50 on support BH, and you almost never max Shadow Walk before Jinada on core BH. The reason being that Shadow Walk is more useful overall if you don't have items and can't get in and use Jinada in fights--core BH gets to the point where he can once he gets some track kills along with his normal farm, but support BH needs considerably more to actually be able to justify getting in and using Jinadas on low CD like that, so it depends on his relative item/level progression. You either need to split these into 2 separate guides because of the variable skill orders, or end up with something that's reasonable both ways (which is going to be 2 Shadow Walk->Max Jinada or 3 Shadow Walk->Max Jinada). | ||
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Torte de Lini
Germany38463 Posts
On June 20 2015 08:08 ElOhTeeBee wrote: Tusk guide has Bottle listed as both Early Game and Situational. I'll fix that, thanks! | ||
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Germany38463 Posts
On June 20 2015 18:27 Nolari wrote: Since 6.84, shouldn't Earth Spirit max Boulder Smash (Q) first and Geomagnetic Grip (E) second, instead of the other way around? They now scale exactly the same way in terms of damage (+50 damage each level) and duration (+0.5 seconds each level), but Boulder Smash additionally gets a reduced cooldown while Geomagnetic Grip's cooldown is static. I'll take another look at this, haven't played ES in awhile (nor well) | ||
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Torte de Lini
Germany38463 Posts
On June 22 2015 00:25 TheYango wrote: Jinada second vs. Shadow Walk second is like 50/50 on support BH, and you almost never max Shadow Walk before Jinada on core BH. The reason being that Shadow Walk is more useful overall if you don't have items and can't get in and use Jinada in fights--core BH gets to the point where he can once he gets some track kills along with his normal farm, but support BH needs considerably more to actually be able to justify getting in and using Jinadas on low CD like that, so it depends on his relative item/level progression. You either need to split these into 2 separate guides because of the variable skill orders, or end up with something that's reasonable both ways (which is going to be 2 Shadow Walk->Max Jinada or 3 Shadow Walk->Max Jinada). I'll fix this as well, I read it over ESL One and found it made pretty much sense, also saw it in a couple of higher player builds. | ||
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Torte de Lini
Germany38463 Posts
All Bloodseeker builds done Double-look at Earth Spirit done, looks like both are valid Fix Tusk + Update done Remake Broodmother entirely Check if Beastmaster guides have been fixed (currently bugged) done, not fixed | ||
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Germany38463 Posts
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Sn0_Man
Tebellong44238 Posts
I think mid BS probably gets 2 in q fairly fast for the permanent uptime although that could be wrong | ||
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Torte de Lini
Germany38463 Posts
On June 24 2015 00:46 Sn0_Man wrote: I think jungle BS still gets 1 in w sometime before level 10 since the value point makes ur ganks wayyy better. I think mid BS probably gets 2 in q fairly fast for the permanent uptime although that could be wrong I figured BS Mid gets the point in W since he gets levels faster and no point in W for Jungle since he is much slower. also I added Hand of Midas to the guides (I think lane and jungle), I forgot to write it, thoughts? | ||
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Sn0_Man
Tebellong44238 Posts
I don't personally like midas bs but it's not unviable | ||
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Torte de Lini
Germany38463 Posts
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Torte de Lini
Germany38463 Posts
On June 24 2015 00:49 Sn0_Man wrote: I mean there's no law against 2-1-2 for example, thirst scales well but ur hero doesn't stop existing if ur 1 point down on it. I don't personally like midas bs but it's not unviable Also power treads instead of Phase Boots I'm basing it a lot on Secret as well though. | ||
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SpiritoftheTunA
United States20903 Posts
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Torte de Lini
Germany38463 Posts
I did it for Lane and Jungle. See it a lot more in Dotabuff, could be just an effect of ESL though | ||
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Torte de Lini
Germany38463 Posts
lycan lane too brood too | ||
BluemoonSC
SoCal8933 Posts
On June 24 2015 00:54 SpiritoftheTunA wrote: i wouldn't ever midas on jungle bs and i always get 2 1 2 because even the first point in w is quite a bit of damage with bloodrage applied on yourself and forces people to eat the silence or run during rupture (level 1 rupture damage is kind of underwhelming but a lot of people don't know that) Yeah this. The only time I'd go midas on the hero was if I was safelane and I got it at like 4 or 5 minutes bc you want to be fighting with him. Even then I'm not sure it's worth not immediately starting to get actual items bc of the hero. E: as I'm thinking about it I think midas is better off in situational. Bc if you're able to start your item progression with fb gold, you're last hitting well etc, vs some lineups, you're gonna wanna get going early and the hero kills will quickly add up. Whereas some lineups you're okay with delaying the item progression in favor of quicker levels and having more money later. Is the average pub player competent enough to make that call? Or bc it's in core, are we going to see 10 minute midas builds in all of our pubs bc they use your guide  | ||
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Sn0_Man
Tebellong44238 Posts
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BluemoonSC
SoCal8933 Posts
Btw: I'm thinking about the target audience of these guides, not G and other pro players | ||
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SpiritoftheTunA
United States20903 Posts
the point about level 11 is true though and bs's early ganks probably arent too item dependent... yea idk it's probably fine to have midas | ||
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BluemoonSC
SoCal8933 Posts
Like you gotta remember that when you say something is core players interpret that as "I must get this item no matter what" so you're gonna get some shitty players that go for 10-15 minute midases ruining your pub experience. Again I don't think there's anything wrong with it and it's better/worse in some games more than others. I just know how strictly people follow these guides. You can tell who is following a torte approved guide | ||
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