• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 19:26
CET 00:26
KST 08:26
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
[ASL22] Finals Preview: Sweet Victory!9[ASL22] Ro4 Preview: Mirror Mirror6[ASL22] Ro8 Preview: Within Reach5[ASL22] Ro8 Preview: In A Tizzy11[ASL22] Ro16 Preview: Holy Diver5
Community News
Evil Geniuses - shutting down14ISSL (IntoTheTV x SOOP SC2 League): Premier5Weekly Cups (October 12-18): 5.0.17 era begins1[$1250] International ShieldBattery League73Weekly Cups (October 5-11): Farewell to 5.0.167
StarCraft 2
General
How do you feel about the mass reverts in the 5.0.17 PTR? REPORT: StarCraft 2: Remastered In Development Team Liquid Map Contest #22: Results and Winners No more SC2 streamers on team liquid? Evil Geniuses - shutting down
Tourneys
ScienceCraft (October 24-25) - Live Event Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament RSL goes to London! 2026 Offline Finals Nov 21-22 ISSL (IntoTheTV x SOOP SC2 League): Premier WORTEX Challenger Series — Open SC2 LAN in Budapes
Strategy
[H] ZvP Mid-Late Game: Stalkers Collossi HT
Custom Maps
[G] How to playtest arcade maps [A] Nemrods 1/4 players [M] (2) Sweltering Sands
External Content
Mutation # 549 Endless Sparkles The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 548 Shining Bright Mutation # 547 Temple Of Terror
Brood War
General
Oceanic Brood War - Join and chat! Bot on ladder BW General Discussion Recent recommended BW games Sagi.gg Launcher Released
Tourneys
[ASL22] Grand Finals [$1250] International ShieldBattery League [BSL23] RO24 Group C Small VOD Thread 2.0
Strategy
Cliff Jump Revisited (1 in a 1000 strategy) 50,000-Word Terran Builds Memo 2026-10-22 Simple Questions, Simple Answers
Other Games
General Games
Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Nintendo Switch Thread Mobile Legends: Bang Bang Armies of Exigo - YesYes? General RTS Discussion Thread
Dota 2
Dota 2 Champions League Season 3 Begins April 25!
League of Legends
[TL LoL EUW IHs] Teemo shall perish
Heroes of the Storm
Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine European Politico-economics QA Mega-thread Canadian Politics Mega-thread
Fan Clubs
Reynor Fan Club The Flash Fan Club Serral Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
Anime Discussion Thread Movie Discussion! [Manga] One Piece
Sports
Football (Soccer) Thread TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 MLB/Baseball 2023
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
Recent Gifted Posts
Blogs
Innovate or Game Over?
TrAiDoS
ShieldBattery on Mac
Kraekkling
[ASL22] Ro4 Day1 Ticket Giv…
bITt.mAN
Can Bots Beat Pros?? Starcr…
namkraft
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 5897 users

In-Game Standard Hero Builds Project - Page 178

Forum Index > The Tavern
Post a Reply
Prev 1 176 177 178 179 180 371 Next
Torte de Lini
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
Germany38463 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-06-01 15:22:55
May 30 2015 16:44 GMT
#3541
ed
https://twitter.com/#!/TorteDeLini (@TorteDeLini)
Torte de Lini
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
Germany38463 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-05-30 16:51:33
May 30 2015 16:50 GMT
#3542
The Abaddon build literally has no more room for items, so if there are any suggestions for x or y item, another item needs to be removed

[image loading]
https://twitter.com/#!/TorteDeLini (@TorteDeLini)
Buckyman
Profile Joined May 2014
1364 Posts
May 30 2015 17:30 GMT
#3543
Why do you even have 6 Extension items? Cut MKB+Basher in favor of Abyssal IMO.
Torte de Lini
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
Germany38463 Posts
May 30 2015 17:50 GMT
#3544
On May 31 2015 02:30 Buckyman wrote:
Why do you even have 6 Extension items? Cut MKB+Basher in favor of Abyssal IMO.


3 per core build
https://twitter.com/#!/TorteDeLini (@TorteDeLini)
Buckyman
Profile Joined May 2014
1364 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-05-30 18:01:34
May 30 2015 17:59 GMT
#3545
In other words, trying to combine two guides is really starting to hurt its clarity in addition to its elegance. It would be perfectly logical to use this guide to start with courier+wards, build out into Phase+Vlad's+S&Y, and finish the game off with Guardian Greaves. Or build Mek/Urn/MKB from position 5.
Torte de Lini
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
Germany38463 Posts
May 30 2015 18:33 GMT
#3546
On May 31 2015 02:59 Buckyman wrote:
In other words, trying to combine two guides is really starting to hurt its clarity in addition to its elegance. It would be perfectly logical to use this guide to start with courier+wards, build out into Phase+Vlad's+S&Y, and finish the game off with Guardian Greaves. Or build Mek/Urn/MKB from position 5.

I'm very undecided with this hero because he can play literally 3 positions
https://twitter.com/#!/TorteDeLini (@TorteDeLini)
TheYango
Profile Joined September 2008
United States47024 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-05-30 19:34:54
May 30 2015 19:33 GMT
#3547
The real problem again stems back to the fact that Torte has simply used the term "Lane" rather than specifying safe lane, off lane, or support, and so any hero that can do more than one of those is going to be problematic.

This was pointed out very early on when the guides just started, but for whatever reason, Torte refused to change it then, so now it's harder to change due to how entrenched high view count guides are and the inertia against adoption of new guides.
Moderator
Torte de Lini
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
Germany38463 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-05-31 00:25:58
May 30 2015 20:20 GMT
#3548
On May 31 2015 04:33 TheYango wrote:
The real problem again stems back to the fact that Torte has simply used the term "Lane" rather than specifying safe lane, off lane, or support, and so any hero that can do more than one of those is going to be problematic.

This was pointed out very early on when the guides just started, but for whatever reason, Torte refused to change it then, so now it's harder to change due to how entrenched high view count guides are and the inertia against adoption of new guides.



If it can still be done now, the issue is, as usual, that it would be too many guides to update if we expanded beyond the ~150 we have now.

It would be another 25+ at minimum if we split them up.

I refused to change it then because I felt that it would be too specific rather than all encompassing for a hero as I didn't set out to do more than one guide for a hero. I also felt that itemization would be the same regardless of the lane (at the time and in view of who I was targeting)
https://twitter.com/#!/TorteDeLini (@TorteDeLini)
Torte de Lini
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
Germany38463 Posts
May 31 2015 21:33 GMT
#3549
Stats coming tomorrow, will put away this patchlist on the front page as usual.
https://twitter.com/#!/TorteDeLini (@TorteDeLini)
ahswtini
Profile Blog Joined June 2008
Northern Ireland22213 Posts
May 31 2015 23:41 GMT
#3550
>wants all encompassing guide

>complains that theres no more room for items

also why is basher even listed as extension, if ur gonna have it then put abyssal. anyone with a smidgen of brain will realise u have to build a basher as part of it
"As I've said, balance isn't about strategies or counters, it's about probability and statistics." - paralleluniverse
Torte de Lini
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
Germany38463 Posts
June 01 2015 09:18 GMT
#3551
On June 01 2015 08:41 ahswtini wrote:
>wants all encompassing guide

>complains that theres no more room for items

also why is basher even listed as extension, if ur gonna have it then put abyssal. anyone with a smidgen of brain will realise u have to build a basher as part of it


That's a selective way of using my words.

I will fix Basher to Abysall
https://twitter.com/#!/TorteDeLini (@TorteDeLini)
anijatsu
Profile Joined January 2013
Poland4 Posts
June 01 2015 11:43 GMT
#3552
Just a formatting error I've encountered. In your description of Bristleback skill some ampersands decided to kick in unformatted. Shows up in game, too.

http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=134962374

Screen: http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=453269067
Torte de Lini
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
Germany38463 Posts
June 01 2015 11:59 GMT
#3553
On June 01 2015 20:43 anijatsu wrote:
Just a formatting error I've encountered. In your description of Bristleback skill some ampersands decided to kick in unformatted. Shows up in game, too.

http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=134962374

Screen: http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=453269067


I thought I fixed them all, but I guess not; thank you
https://twitter.com/#!/TorteDeLini (@TorteDeLini)
Torte de Lini
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
Germany38463 Posts
June 01 2015 15:10 GMT
#3554
Also thoughts on Storm Spirit? http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=129143802

I was thinking of just pushing Bloodstone as Extension.
https://twitter.com/#!/TorteDeLini (@TorteDeLini)
Sn0_Man
Profile Blog Joined October 2012
Tebellong44238 Posts
June 01 2015 15:15 GMT
#3555
I mean bloodstone is more core than orchid these days.
LiquidDota StaffSCIENTISTS BAFFLED | 3275929302
TheYango
Profile Joined September 2008
United States47024 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-06-01 15:23:52
June 01 2015 15:22 GMT
#3556
It doesn't really make sense to have them as two separate builds, seeing as the items aren't mutually exclusive.
Moderator
Torte de Lini
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
Germany38463 Posts
June 01 2015 15:22 GMT
#3557
On June 02 2015 00:15 Sn0_Man wrote:
I mean bloodstone is more core than orchid these days.


I would argue the reverse + the current meta calling for Orchid over Bloodstone.
https://twitter.com/#!/TorteDeLini (@TorteDeLini)
Torte de Lini
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
Germany38463 Posts
June 01 2015 15:22 GMT
#3558
On June 02 2015 00:22 TheYango wrote:
It doesn't really make sense to have them as two separate builds, seeing as the items aren't mutually exclusive.


I figured, just needed confirmation.
https://twitter.com/#!/TorteDeLini (@TorteDeLini)
Sn0_Man
Profile Blog Joined October 2012
Tebellong44238 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-06-01 15:26:48
June 01 2015 15:25 GMT
#3559
From a theoretical standpoint its really easy to argue for orchid
from a "wow look at all these players winning games at 4, 5, 6, 7K and even pro games" standpoint bloodstone is the overwhelming preference. The thing is, the soul ring from bloodstone is really efficient for farming anyway and the rest of bloodstone is cheaper than starting an orchid from scratch while providing a lot more mana, regen and hp. It's simply more stable as a build, especially if you are forced into a 2nd item bkb since you have your HP and mana bases somewhat covered already.
LiquidDota StaffSCIENTISTS BAFFLED | 3275929302
Velzi
Profile Joined June 2012
Finland659 Posts
June 01 2015 15:26 GMT
#3560
i would remove arcane boots completely, i see no reason to go arcane boots even if u go bloodstone "rush". U will get so much value from tread switching anyways with bottle and it actually makes u slightly tankier.

I have had mixed results with skadi, is there any reason to get it? I mean u get decent stats but u dont really need the slow effect from it since u are faster anyone else at that point anyways + it doesnt really bump up ur damage output as a 5th-6th item.

No euls mentioned? i think u should make some sort of "bkb vs these" "linkens vs these" "euls vs these" thingy, i know all of those are not built for same reasons but they all kinda have defensive capabilities vs certain line-ups.
Never argue with stupid people, they will drag you to their level and then beat you with experience. http://www.dotabuff.com/players/115305822 https://yasp.co/players/115305822
Prev 1 176 177 178 179 180 371 Next
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 11h 34m
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
Nathanias 114
StarCraft: Brood War
Artosis 617
ProTech180
Dota 2
syndereN343
NeuroSwarm129
League of Legends
Doublelift4150
Trikslyr38
Counter-Strike
Fnx 1415
Heroes of the Storm
Grubby3647
Other Games
summit1g11743
JimRising 763
shahzam544
Cr1tdota339
C9.Mang0277
RotterdaM128
PiGStarcraft113
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick628
[ Show 16 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• Hupsaiya 117
• RyuSc2 28
• musti20045 26
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• Migwel
StarCraft: Brood War
• blackmanpl 33
• Azhi_Dahaki20
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
League of Legends
• Scarra1129
Other Games
• imaqtpie1052
• Shiphtur813
Upcoming Events
IntoTheTV X SOOP
11h 34m
ByuN vs Lambo
MaxPax vs Bunny
PiGosaur Cup
1d
The PondCast
1d 10h
Kung Fu Cup
1d 11h
IntoTheTV X SOOP
2 days
SHIN vs GuMiho
Clem vs Classic
OSC
2 days
WardiTV Invitational
3 days
GSL
3 days
Epic.LAN
3 days
Replay Cast
3 days
[ Show More ]
Sparkling Tuna Cup
4 days
Epic.LAN
4 days
Yamato Cup
5 days
Map Test Tournament
5 days
WardiTV Weekly
6 days
Replay Cast
6 days
Rogue vs Classic
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Acropolis #5 - GSC
Blizzard Classic Cup 2026
HCC Season 3

Ongoing

Acropolis #5
KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 4
ShieldBattery League 1
BSL Season 23
PGL Masters Bucharest 2026
1win Private Club #2
Thunderpick World Champ. '26
ESL Pro League Season 24
Stake Ranked Episode 4
1win Private Club #1
Logitech G Play Connect 2026
SL StarSeries Fall 2026
FISSURE Playground #3
BLAST Open Fall 2026
Esports World Cup 2026

Upcoming

IPSL Winter 2026-27
SC4ALL II: Brood War
BSL 23: Non-Korean Championship
HSC XXX
Stellar Fest 2: Lunar Cup
SC4ALL II: StarCraft II
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
RSL Offline Finals
eXTREMESLAND 2026
PGL Major Singapore 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 6
BLAST Rivals Fall 2026
IEM Beijing 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 5
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.