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On July 10 2016 01:53 Sholip wrote:
But since it's prebuilt, it's safe to assume it has an adequate PSU, right? Also, for some reason, this build seems to be significantly cheaper than other companies' prebuilt ones.
There isn't something obviously fishy here, is there? Do you think it would be a good buy?
Thanks in advance!
Absolutely do not assume hi quality components in prebuilds. Check ALL the specs b/c they often add old generation/low quality parts and mix them with BRAND NEW SHINY CPU. I dont know if this is the case but be careful and check everything.
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On July 10 2016 02:09 MisterFred wrote:
@Sholip Hungary may be different, but generally with prebuilts you can assume a mediocre power supply that just barely manages to power the included components - and don't think about oveclocking.
I wasn't thinking about overclocking, actually, but thanks for the tip. I will have to ask them about the PSU.
On July 10 2016 02:40 Cyro wrote:
^What he said.
The other thing i'd be looking out for would be exactly which version of the 970 it has. The cooler that's on a graphics card makes up for the majority of the noise in a system while gaming and choices in cooler and card design can impact performance and longevity. It's generally a bad idea to buy the cheapest graphics card coolers but they show up in prebuilts like this because of people who only look at the "970" part and the $$ number.
No SSD is also weird and cheap in <current year> as they have so much impact on general system performance, snappyness, loading times etc
Well, you can order extra SSD, only it's not included in the base price. As for graphics card (and PSU), if I ask them specifically about the exact model in the build, can you guys give your opinions on that?
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@Sholip It's usually much better to build yourself. And not that hard (I actually find it fun). This thread's OP has a few instructional videos that can guide you step by step. I like the Hardware Canucks one. The following isn't a part list I'd buy, but it is simplified (no overclocking at all), and from a Hungarian retailer. I have no idea if you'd benefit financially by going to a big German site like alternate.de.
Let's see what I come up with. Similar components to your prebuilt, but in some cases higher quality.
Slightly faster CPU (i5-6500) and by coincidence the same motherboard. Similar RAM, but twice as much. 60k, 17k,18k HUF.
http://www.argep.hu/product_2414548.html
http://www.argep.hu/main.aspx?produkt=2426597&sort=gespreis
http://www.argep.hu/product_2436789.html
RX 480 instead of 970. Slightly better. Probably louder, as no custom versions yet. Replace with 970 if you want. 89k
http://oaziscomputer.hu/termekek/videokartya/ati/gigabyte-rx480-8gb-gv-rx480d5-8gd-b?source=54b439c4a059764da97b750246571cf6
1TB HDD and 240gb SSD. Added in an SSD because you really should. It just makes ordinary tasks better. 13k, 18k
http://www.argep.hu/product_2155249.html
http://www.argep.hu/main.aspx?kid=3-1006&sort=preis&page=4
Case (Fractal Design R5) and PSU (XFX 450w) both likely higher quality than in the prebuilt. 32k, 15k
http://www.argep.hu/product_2359628.html
http://www.argep.hu/product_1795523.html
Subtotal: ~262,000 HUF. Now that doesn't include shipping. I assume it includes VAT (I can't read Magyar, so I can't confirm that).
So the pre-built is cheaper. If I were you I'd consider building yourself or buying the prebuilt & replacing the PSU/adding an SSD. Prebuilt + the power supply & SSD I linked here would be about the same price as the parts I linked above. On the other hand the parts I list above will have a slightly better case (presumably), 16gb instead of 8gb RAM, and 3.5 instead of 3.3mhz on the CPU. Oh, and 480 vs 970 depending on your preferred flavor of GPU.
Edit: The prebuilt may also come with windows, so that'd be another advantage for the prebuilt.
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On July 10 2016 02:52 Sholip wrote:
I wasn't thinking about overclocking, actually, but thanks for the tip. I will have to ask them about the PSU.
It's not necessarily just overclocking/upgrades. Some PSUs are poor enough they'll slowly degrade your components. Usually not by much and over some years, but why take the risk?
On July 10 2016 02:40 Cyro wrote:
Well, you can order extra SSD, only it's not included in the base price. As for graphics card (and PSU), if I ask them specifically about the exact model in the build, can you guys give your opinions on that?
Yes, we can give feedbacks on exact models of PSU & GPU. For general purposes, PSUs are complicated. When looking at GPUs, well:
Ignore the difference between models in the following links and just look visually at the cooling fans.
You want a GPU with a cooler that looks like this:
http://www.argep.hu/product_2349217.html
or this:
http://www.argep.hu/product_2348322.html
but NOT this:
http://www.argep.hu/product_2448465.html
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@MisterFred Wow you are helping so much <3
Actually, the reason I'm unsure about building it myself is because I'm afraid that because I don't know much about the part detalis, some things will end up incompatible and I will have spent a ton of money on something I'm not able to use... and of course prebuilt comes with less trouble and time required.
Also, I tried searching components, but when I looked up the parts individually and then added the prices, the sum would somehow always be around the prebuilt prices...
That said, I will contact the retailer of the prebuilt one about the exact models of the components, and decide later based on that.
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I was pretty surprised with the price of the prebuilt too. Assuming that price includes taxes & the components check out, I'd say you're on the right path.
Edit: as for part incompatibilities, avoiding those is one of the great benefits of this thread. 
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Btw, are components significantly cheaper in the US? I opened pcpartpicker.com just to check for approximate prices, and I found that for just a bit more than the prebuilt I've been talking about, you could buy a similar computer but with 1070 instead of 970. Or is it because of taxes and shipping somehow?
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United Kingdom20345 Posts
Stuff is often like 1.5x more expensive in other parts of the world relative to US prices. US listed prices do not include any taxes so they look lower than they actually are
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Yes & no. Some parts ARE cheaper. There's also some variation in what's available. But for the most part it's taxes. US law more or less allows people to avoid taxes on online purchases. Whereas in Hungary you pay 27% VAT or something like that. So you should assume at least 27% higher prices across the board.
On the other hand, you get free health insurance. So it's we Americans who should be jealous of you!
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On July 10 2016 03:51 MisterFred wrote:
Yes & no. Some parts ARE cheaper. There's also some variation in what's available. But for the most part it's taxes. US law more or less allows people to avoid taxes on online purchases. Whereas in Hungary you pay 27% VAT or something like that. So you should assume at least 27% higher prices across the board.
On the other hand, you get free health insurance. So it's we Americans who should be jealous of you!
Oh I see, that's understandable then.
+ Show Spoiler +Also, it's getting off topic, but there is less to be jealous of in this free health insurance than you would think...
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Your best bet for figuring out if a prebuilt is worth it is pricing out the individual components vs what you get buying it as a prebuilt. Basically see just how much of a markup they're charging you to assemble it. Reasonable markup is probably $50-75. A typical PC by an experienced build shouldn't take more than an hour to assemble.
+ Show Spoiler +You haven't seen how big my medical bills are
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So I contacted the retailer and they said that the prebuilt has
Gigabyte G1 Gaming Windforce 970 GPU and
LC Power 600W PSU.
A quick google search gave me the following opinions on the PSU:
Avoid that brand like the plague. Yet another fire hazard being sold as a psu. The only thing I would touch that PSU with is a fire extinguisher.
So I guess I get the general message.
Following MisterFred's advice, the GPU doesn't look bad.
What are your opinions?
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Thank you for the replies about the ram, much appreciated!
I ended up ordering a 16 gb ram from NCIX, @ 84$ (DDR3-2133). That's the maximum my Motherboard can take. The 8gb combo were just 5-10$ cheaper, so I figured I might as well take it all!
The ram upgrade might also be the last upgrade I'll do on this current computer (i5-2500k OC to 4.5 GHZ, r9 290). The other upgrade I could see would be the R9 290. I might go back to the Nvidia ship, but I do enjoy supporting the underdog here.
R9 290 --> Rx 480? When those are in stock, obviously
People claim AMD Freesync costs less. TBH, I haven't invested into a monitor (gsync or freesync) just yet... as long as the game looks nice! So unless it's worth it (opinions?), I'll hold onto my 29 inches ultrawide!
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@XenOmega
rx 480 isn't a big enough upgrade over the r9 290 to be worth it, in my opinion. Rx 480 is good, but it's meant to be the next great "budget" option. In my opinion if you already have a 290, you'd definitely want your next GPU purchase to be on the smaller manufacturing node they're now using, so unless you like a 1070/1080, you'd want to wait for more options. I know nothing about Freesync/the Nvidia equivalent, sorry.
@Sholip
That GPU should be good as 970s go. I don't know about the 970-specific version, but Gigabyte Windforce coolers have previously had a reputation of working well and not being too loud.
In terms of the larger issue, you basically have the same choice as before. You need to choose between:
1) Picking a part list & building yourself, guided by the advice I laid out above, and double-checking that your list is compatible/good with the fine people here, or
2) Buying the prebuilt (preferably with an SSD option) & buying an additional power supply (the one I linked before will work). Unfortunately the price/difficulty advantages of the prebuilt are reduced. You'll have to unhook the old PSU and attack the new one, of course.
If it's a small shop that puts the PCs together after you order them, you also might be able to simply haggle. Just go in and ask for a PSU not on their normal options list (if they even have PSU options) and offer to pay 10 or 20 euro-equivalent more for an XFX 450 as I linked above or other decent PSU instead of the PSU they would otherwise include with the prebuilt. (XFX 450 should be relatively widely available in Europe. Seasonics are generally great, Super Flower, Corsair or even EGVA should be good. Most of the Be Quiets were quality as I recall, but I'm not really the expert on PSUs on this forum. For a quality PSU, you should be looking at 430w or higher, but you won't need more.) Edit: if the shop tells you that you need a powersupply with more watts than recommended here, that's because they're going off manufacturer recommendations that assume you're using a crappy power supply that is lying about what it can actually do.
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The GTX 1060 is coming out in ~2 weeks, which is supposed to have GTX 980 performance and cost $250.
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United Kingdom20345 Posts
The GTX 1060 is coming out in ~2 weeks, which is supposed to have GTX 980 performance and cost $250.
Probably closer to $300 for 6GB, good cooler version and be a bit worse than a 980 - meanwhile rx 480 with 8GB VRAM and good cooler is likely $50 cheaper and behind a tiny bit on performance
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The other upgrade I could see would be the R9 290. I might go back to the Nvidia ship, but I do enjoy supporting the underdog here.
R9 290 --> Rx 480? When those are in stock, obviously
That's a pretty bad upgrade because the performance is similar.
You should probably get something much higher performance - The gtx1080 (and potential competitors) are somewhere close to twice as fast as the rx480 and the flagships this gen will be ~ three times faster than an rx480. Prices on the faster stuff should fall eventually
http://www.anandtech.com/bench/product/1721?vs=1748
^no 290 to compare to, the 290x is about 3% faster at the same clock speed
http://www.anandtech.com/bench/product/1721?vs=1714
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Thank you for the links!
I do understand that the gain will probably be minimal and not worth it. But assuming I still want to upgrade, the best $/performance ratio is among the AMD cards right (as of right now ; things could change with 1060)?
(when I upgrade my computer, I give my old components to my brother ; he currently has a HD5770 ; R9 290 would be a huge upgrade for him)
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United Kingdom20345 Posts
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As a probably useless side note, if you play Skryim and would like to load it up with 60 detailed texture mods, the 8gb version of the 480 could actually be a significant upgrade. Though I don't know any other scenario with the increase in VRAM will be a big dea.
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Anyone have luck with the Seagate drives? I'm aware of the problem with them but I purchased it before the scandal was revealed. Had a 2TB Barracuda for probably two years, have to get rid of it because of so many bad sectors. I didn't even do much file transferring on it after moving all the content when I bought it initially.
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EPT
