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On December 10 2014 00:40 Cyro wrote:Show nested quote +On December 10 2014 00:27 Brettatron wrote:
So got my heatsink. Installed it. Started over clocking.
I'm stable at 4.2 GHz at 1.1v but can't even get 4.3 GHz with 1.2v without a BSOD. The sensors seem to be working now because both hwinfo and cpuid with the sensors turned on load now. Show nested quote +for starting OC, i would just manually set the memory to its rated voltage and primary timings, something like 1600 9-9-9-24 @1.5v, test to make sure it passed stuff, then set uncore/cache to 33x@1.15v, set input voltage LLC to a high level and then start tweaking, with the only variables left over being 1; Core frequency, 2; Vcore, 3; Input voltage.
For most overclocking you can usually keep llc'd input voltage 0.6 higher than vcore and assume that it will work, but it needs more careful tweaking sometimes and the amount you need varies depending on both the motherboard and the individual CPU (somehow affected by silicon lottery, maybe the extra capacitors on devil's canyon etc) those two quotes apply to you too. You won't run into those kinds of problems if you set the proper voltages, and it's useless running current versions of stuff like prime95 unless you're an advanced tweaker to be able to fix problems that might make you unstable as you raise overclock where adding vcore will not fix instability
What is LLC? Uncore/cache is the same as ring bus correct?
There is so much literature on over clocking its hard to read it all and understand what is for simple and what is more advanced.
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United Kingdom20335 Posts
On December 10 2014 11:19 Brettatron wrote:Show nested quote +On December 10 2014 00:40 Cyro wrote:On December 10 2014 00:27 Brettatron wrote:
So got my heatsink. Installed it. Started over clocking.
I'm stable at 4.2 GHz at 1.1v but can't even get 4.3 GHz with 1.2v without a BSOD. The sensors seem to be working now because both hwinfo and cpuid with the sensors turned on load now. for starting OC, i would just manually set the memory to its rated voltage and primary timings, something like 1600 9-9-9-24 @1.5v, test to make sure it passed stuff, then set uncore/cache to 33x@1.15v, set input voltage LLC to a high level and then start tweaking, with the only variables left over being 1; Core frequency, 2; Vcore, 3; Input voltage.
For most overclocking you can usually keep llc'd input voltage 0.6 higher than vcore and assume that it will work, but it needs more careful tweaking sometimes and the amount you need varies depending on both the motherboard and the individual CPU (somehow affected by silicon lottery, maybe the extra capacitors on devil's canyon etc) You can just read all of this - http://www.overclock.net/t/1411077/haswell-overclocking-guide-with-statistics (including the spoilers) and ask questions, or i could talk you through on skype etc (it's really not difficult or much more complex than stuff i wrote like last post, but a lot of people still manage to do things wrong by not following scientific methods or making bad assumptions) those two quotes apply to you too. You won't run into those kinds of problems if you set the proper voltages, and it's useless running current versions of stuff like prime95 unless you're an advanced tweaker to be able to fix problems that might make you unstable as you raise overclock where adding vcore will not fix instability What is LLC? Uncore/cache is the same as ring bus correct? There is so much literature on over clocking its hard to read it all and understand what is for simple and what is more advanced.
LLC is load line calibration, used to counter voltage drooping under load. And yea, cache/uncore/ring same thing. For a basic OC you just have to set the stuff i said and use three variables after doing that (core frequency, vcore, input voltage) while testing with something like x264
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are we allowed to ask for laptop recommendations in this thread?
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On December 10 2014 12:16 Cyro wrote:Show nested quote +On December 10 2014 11:19 Brettatron wrote:On December 10 2014 00:40 Cyro wrote:On December 10 2014 00:27 Brettatron wrote:
So got my heatsink. Installed it. Started over clocking.
I'm stable at 4.2 GHz at 1.1v but can't even get 4.3 GHz with 1.2v without a BSOD. The sensors seem to be working now because both hwinfo and cpuid with the sensors turned on load now. for starting OC, i would just manually set the memory to its rated voltage and primary timings, something like 1600 9-9-9-24 @1.5v, test to make sure it passed stuff, then set uncore/cache to 33x@1.15v, set input voltage LLC to a high level and then start tweaking, with the only variables left over being 1; Core frequency, 2; Vcore, 3; Input voltage.
For most overclocking you can usually keep llc'd input voltage 0.6 higher than vcore and assume that it will work, but it needs more careful tweaking sometimes and the amount you need varies depending on both the motherboard and the individual CPU (somehow affected by silicon lottery, maybe the extra capacitors on devil's canyon etc) You can just read all of this - http://www.overclock.net/t/1411077/haswell-overclocking-guide-with-statistics (including the spoilers) and ask questions, or i could talk you through on skype etc (it's really not difficult or much more complex than stuff i wrote like last post, but a lot of people still manage to do things wrong by not following scientific methods or making bad assumptions) those two quotes apply to you too. You won't run into those kinds of problems if you set the proper voltages, and it's useless running current versions of stuff like prime95 unless you're an advanced tweaker to be able to fix problems that might make you unstable as you raise overclock where adding vcore will not fix instability What is LLC? Uncore/cache is the same as ring bus correct? There is so much literature on over clocking its hard to read it all and understand what is for simple and what is more advanced. LLC is load line calibration, used to counter voltage drooping under load. And yea, cache/uncore/ring same thing. For a basic OC you just have to set the stuff i said and use three variables after doing that (core frequency, vcore, input voltage) while testing with something like x264
Kay good. Because I read that entire post you linked and they said it was the same so I fiddled with it and if you came back and were like "no its different" I would have been like "FUUUUUUUUUUU". That said I don't know where to set LLC in my bios because it is not called that because I can't find it. Also, what is the difference between vcore and input voltage?
Also, I have 1 core consistently 8-12 degrees lower than the rest. Possible that my thermal paste was poorly done and this core is getting most of my cooling? Or is that within variance limits? One core is also 2-3 degrees hotter too but that feels normal enough.
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On December 10 2014 07:46 Cyro wrote:Show nested quote +On December 10 2014 07:41 Puph wrote:Hey guys! What do you think of these LGA 1155 ivy bridge mobos? ASRock Z75 Pro3 which would cost 100 + 15 shipping and handling GIGABYTE GA-Z77-DS3H cost 130 + 10 ASUS z77-A cost 130 + ??? Gigabyte GA-z77-HD4 cost 107 + ??? I will overclock until I reach 24 hour stable. Might need 2nd pcie3 x16 for CrossFire in 2-3 years. 2 cpu fans + 4 case fans is ideal but whatever. I am open to suggestions from this Canadian pcpartpicker list: http://ca.pcpartpicker.com/parts/motherboard/#s=14&sort=a7Need specs? --> + Show Spoiler +OS: Windows 7 64 bit
CPU: i5 ivy bridge "k", stock, 64 bit
GPU: XFX r9 290 DD 4gig
PSU: Corsair HX750
Mobo: ASRock z77 extreme4
Case: Lian-Li PC-K62
Heatsink: Noctua NH-D14
SSD: Crucial M4 128 gig
HDD: Seagate Barracida 7200rpm 2 tb x2
Ram: G-Skill Ripjaws 2x4 gig Those are pretty much the weakest z77 boards (aside from maybe the z77-a; i don't know how good that one is) - what kind of overclock are you going to attempt? I mean like, how high vcore and with what cooling?
Thanks Cyro. Cooling: Noctua NH-D14 in push+pull. Ambient temps: 38C. I plan to keep VCORE near lower recommended amounts. 1.2v - 1.35v. Not pushing it, but I'm looking for some gains. 4.3ghz and <1.35vcore maybe?
Which of these mobos can handle a small but decent overclock? Thanks again!
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At the moment i took apart my htpc (pending making new brackets, processor and sticking a 750ti in it) and decided to find some extra hardware i have lying around for fun.
I now have some silly thing that has a Intel G620 and GTX660 thats doing surprisingly well
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United Kingdom20335 Posts
On December 10 2014 12:51 zev318 wrote:
are we allowed to ask for laptop recommendations in this thread?
Yea
On December 10 2014 12:58 Brettatron wrote:Show nested quote +On December 10 2014 12:16 Cyro wrote:On December 10 2014 11:19 Brettatron wrote:On December 10 2014 00:40 Cyro wrote:On December 10 2014 00:27 Brettatron wrote:
So got my heatsink. Installed it. Started over clocking.
I'm stable at 4.2 GHz at 1.1v but can't even get 4.3 GHz with 1.2v without a BSOD. The sensors seem to be working now because both hwinfo and cpuid with the sensors turned on load now. for starting OC, i would just manually set the memory to its rated voltage and primary timings, something like 1600 9-9-9-24 @1.5v, test to make sure it passed stuff, then set uncore/cache to 33x@1.15v, set input voltage LLC to a high level and then start tweaking, with the only variables left over being 1; Core frequency, 2; Vcore, 3; Input voltage.
For most overclocking you can usually keep llc'd input voltage 0.6 higher than vcore and assume that it will work, but it needs more careful tweaking sometimes and the amount you need varies depending on both the motherboard and the individual CPU (somehow affected by silicon lottery, maybe the extra capacitors on devil's canyon etc) You can just read all of this - http://www.overclock.net/t/1411077/haswell-overclocking-guide-with-statistics (including the spoilers) and ask questions, or i could talk you through on skype etc (it's really not difficult or much more complex than stuff i wrote like last post, but a lot of people still manage to do things wrong by not following scientific methods or making bad assumptions) those two quotes apply to you too. You won't run into those kinds of problems if you set the proper voltages, and it's useless running current versions of stuff like prime95 unless you're an advanced tweaker to be able to fix problems that might make you unstable as you raise overclock where adding vcore will not fix instability What is LLC? Uncore/cache is the same as ring bus correct? There is so much literature on over clocking its hard to read it all and understand what is for simple and what is more advanced. LLC is load line calibration, used to counter voltage drooping under load. And yea, cache/uncore/ring same thing. For a basic OC you just have to set the stuff i said and use three variables after doing that (core frequency, vcore, input voltage) while testing with something like x264 Kay good. Because I read that entire post you linked and they said it was the same so I fiddled with it and if you came back and were like "no its different" I would have been like "FUUUUUUUUUUU". That said I don't know where to set LLC in my bios because it is not called that because I can't find it. Also, what is the difference between vcore and input voltage? Also, I have 1 core consistently 8-12 degrees lower than the rest. Possible that my thermal paste was poorly done and this core is getting most of my cooling? Or is that within variance limits? One core is also 2-3 degrees hotter too but that feels normal enough.
Load line calibration / LLC and i think with one board it's called something like input voltage vdroop control
vcore is core voltage, input voltage is the voltage that goes into the voltage regulator on the CPU.
Input voltage is supplied from motherboard voltage regulators to CPU (and it needs llc) - but then the VR on the CPU takes over and scales that down to all of the other voltages including vcore, while also having built in and very effective+tight control of voltages supplied so that it can change them very quickly and LLC is not required for the voltages produced by it. Usually input voltage 0.6 above vcore is fine (so for example, 1.25vcore, 1.85 input V) but some CPU's need significantly less (with questionable benefits? It doesn't really reduce core temperatures etc..) and some won't be stable without more, especially on high overclocks (1.4vcore might need 2.05-2.1 input, and fail on 2.0 which is 0.6 above it)
The fourth core is usually cooler than the rest, if your CPU is at ~78-82c on the first 3 cores, it's not unusual to see that fourth one at ~71 etc. If you're at 50c, it might be a 5c gap, but widen towards a 10c gap when some cores are at 90 etc
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Ambient temps: 38C
Several of those boards are known for VRM's overheating and causing throttling with 20c ambients and ~1.3vcore. If you're in a really hot environment that will be a much bigger problem
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Great thanks Cyro you have been a huge help! I've now got myself to 45 multiplier, with 1.25 vcore and 1.9 input voltage and x264 ran overnight with no problems and max temps 75C.
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http://pcpartpicker.com/p/hCDLjX
+ Show Spoiler +
hopefully, finalized my build based on the suggestions from kupo/cyro. This comes to just under $800 which was the upper limit of what I wanted to spend on this gift.
If there are any blatant ways to save some money, let me know, otherwise if this build looks solid for the price I'll order today.
edit+ Show Spoiler +: is 280->290 worth the $50? She only plays WoW/Skyrim/Diablo3 @ 1080p
Thanks everyone.
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at 1080p a 280x is probably sufficient for now, but a 290 for 250 is a pretty good deal so shrug
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280 to 290 for only $50???
that's really amazing value. not really for the light games on GPU like diablo 3 or WoW, but for most GPU bound games like skyrim, it's worth it. not to mention skyrim can be modded easily and the R9 290 should be good for that, since it's a more powerful graphics card and it has more vram
also that's a 280X not a 280. ok, so the step is less big but it's still pretty worth it imo.
by the looks of it you're not going to overclock and if you really want to save money, i think you should get a haswell processor instead of a haswell refresh processor that way you can save some money on the motherboard. you only lose 0.1 GHz of CPU speed which isn't the end of the world and you save some money
the evga NEX750 is a mediocre and overpriced unit. 750W overkill for a single GPU build, so let's see, here are the changes i would make taking my suggestions into account (keep in mind i jumped in at the last second and did these changes in a couple minutes):
http://pcpartpicker.com/p/xPQ4GX
i5 4670: haswell processor which is 100% compatible with the cheaper H81M boards. it's 0.1 ghz slower than the haswell refresh processor you were going to get but eh, that's not the biggest deal in the world, if you really wanted to make a difference you'd have to overclock imo.
motherboard: ASUS H81M-D which is only $35 about mail in rebate, it's a basic motherboard to keep everything together but it gets the job done.
video card: gigabyte's windforce R9 290. so this is much faster strong than the 280X, it's a more recent card so AMD will support it more (vsr cough cough), it's got loads of vrm in case you wanna mod skyrim or something, it's just an excellent card for its price and it fits in the budget. it's arguably overkill for 1080p gaming BUT AMD has started working on vsr, which basically allows you to artificially use higher resolutions than your monitor supports for better visuals. it was released like 2 days ago? yesterday? idk. still for $50 i really think this is a no brainer
case: N200. there's a mail in rebate on this case, it's a budget case but it's better than the source 210 since it comes with 2 fans and it's an overall very good case for its price. the source 210 would have required you to remove the drive cages to fit the longish amd cards.
power supply: rosewill capstone 550. if you want something modular perhaps look at the XFX XTR series, i saw the 550W version i think for $76, but it shouldn't matter, this psu should get the job done no problem. the EVGA NEX PSUs are just mediocre, you save money spend a bit more but you get a better power supply with this one.
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the answer is basically, do you want to overclock
The effective difference between the 2 configurations is probably about ~15% in CPU performance
However since modern games do not max out the CPU, the gaming difference is rather small.
At the heart of it the difference is one of philosophy whether you want to just get a computer that more or less just works for a couple of years or do you want to get a bit more out of it in terms of computing and customization
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If she wants to stream more, would the increased CPU power be more beneficial than whatever boost she may gain from 'gaming'?
I overclocked my personal computer but I'm not sure I want to deal with it for hers, not that it's particularly complicated, but for her machine, I'm mostly looking to plug/play, have it work and never have to look at it again lols.
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shrug, probably, but its really not a big difference; for plug and play the simplicity of a microatx case and a stock processor is probably worth not having to worry about it
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Ok, I think I'll go option #2, and save the $75 for Christmas presents. Thanks for all the help computer build bros.
Option #2 (the winner unless someone posts before I get home from work that this build is a huge trainwreck lol).
+ Show Spoiler +
I feel this is a nice compromise of price to components. I'm a bit under budget too, which is a nice bonus.
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No optical drive. That may or may not be on purpose, just saying.
And the case isn't white, like specified earlier. How could you?
+ Show Spoiler +For lower-cost options, if you were serious and willing to shell out a bit more for that, maybe NZXT Source 210 / 220. And BitFenix Neo, I guess? In the higher range (still under $80), NZXT Source 340 (no optical drive bays), Phantom 240, H230.
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Yeah, I'm skipping the optical drive because it shouldn't be needed, and if it is, I have 3 or 4 I could cannibalize from old towers.
I'll check out some of those case options when I get home from work. I also just realized the case in that list is actually the wrong one. Whoops.
Thanks for the input!
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Hi all, looking to purchase a laptop for gaming purposes only. i currently already have a desktop but i'm just looking to get a laptop for gaming and of course being able to take with me while on trips or to a friend's house etc.
i dont play many of the newest games, but i would like to be able to play them eventually since i'll have this laptop for a while. currently i play things like wow, tf2, dota 2, diablo 3, borderlands, some rpgs etc. so i doubt i need anything top of the line, somewhere in middle probably would do. 17 inch monitor size would be great, but not a deal breaker if it isnt.
What is your budget?
probably like 1300-1600?
What do you intend to use the computer for besides gaming?
none
What country will you be buying your parts in?
toronto, canada
Thanks in advance.
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EPT
