EPTComputer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread - Page 294
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skyR
Canada13817 Posts
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Alabasern
United States4005 Posts
On May 24 2014 07:23 skyR wrote: You can do that if you wish, just make sure there are no pets or kids unsupervised =p I might drink for the first time in 2 years today, I received a $15 gift card and then a $25 gift card for not receiving my package on time, and up to a week late. Pays to complain with honest reasons. | ||
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Alabasern
United States4005 Posts
On May 24 2014 07:23 skyR wrote: You can do that if you wish, just make sure there are no pets or kids unsupervised =p Must play....video.....games... Nah, just want to test every component and post open-air benchmarks etc. + Show Spoiler + | ||
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Dav1oN
Ukraine3164 Posts
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Alabasern
United States4005 Posts
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B_Type13X2
Canada122 Posts
My old specs: CPU: I7 950 CPU cooler: Corsair H80 Motherboard: Asus X58 Sabretooth Memory: 12 gb (6X2gb) Kingstong Hyper X PC12800 Videocards: Ati Radeon 6870's in crossfire Harddrives: 1X OCZ Vertex 2 120gb SSD 2X WD Black SATAII 1GB SATA w 64MB cache, 1 X Seagate 2TB SATAII w64mb Cache Case: NZXT phantom full tower black Powersupply Silverstone Strider gold 1000W. served me quite well and is still holding its on. I am looking at the following build but there are some options that I honestly need advice on because finding reviews on boards or comparisons is abit difficult with the recent launch of Z97. CPU: I7 4770k CPU Cooler:NZXT Kraken X60 Motherboard: MSI Z97 Mpower Max AC or Asus Z97 Sabretooth mark I or Asus Z97 Deluxe Memory: G-Skill sniper series 32gb PC3-14900 quad channel kit. VideoCard(s): 2X MSI R9-290X 4gb @ 630$ each (onsale!!) or HIS R9 295X2 8GB @ 1750$ or 2X Gigabyte Geforce GTX780 Ti's 3gb w/ windforce cooler @ 850$'s each Harddrvies: OCZ Vertex 460 SATAIII 240gb SSD, 2X WD Black SATAII 1GB SATA w 64MB cache, 1 X Seagate 2TB SATAII w64mb Cache, 2X WD Black SATA III w/ 64mb Cache Case: NZXT Phantom 820 Gunmetal Grey Powersupply: EVGA SuperNOVA 1300 G2 Modular 1300W 80+ gold. Notes: I have no idea how to decide what motherboard to pick out of the 3 they all have all the features that I want, I have a Sabretooth installed in my current PC and it has never let me down, infact in the 10 years I've been building PC's I have not had an issue with a Asus board that I didn't cause and their RMA process when I buggered my board was painless they gave me a new board even though it was my fault. That being said I have a friend who swears by MSI so I wouldn't be opposed to trying something new, z97 is so new that I am having problems finding good comparrison reviews from reputable individuals. (Tek syndicate speaks highly of them but they have a promotional thing so there might be rose colored glasses on that one. Videocards: I honestly would have to see how a pair of 290X's compare to a pair of 780 TI's the R9295X would be the card I scrutinize over against a pair of 780GTI's if the 290X wasn't discounted by 130$'s right now. So I'm not sure really yet which way I am going to. Harddrives, I am going to be leaving a 1GB black WD drive and the SSD in my original computer and be putting the bulk of my drives in my new system. I hope the 1300W PSU is way overkill, as thats how I like my powersupply's I've seen too many of my friends cheap out and end up with a destroyed system because of an offbrand PSU that ate it. So I am inflexible on the powersupply unit's rating. it must be 80+ silver minimum certified and has to be over 1000W. | ||
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Cyro
United Kingdom20322 Posts
So I am inflexible on the powersupply unit's rating. it must be 80+ silver minimum certified and has to be over 1000W. Some of the best power supplies on the planet are only ~550w rated. The quality of the PSU is not related to the capacity, and if you buy higher capacity than you need, the efficiency will drop (it makes sense to get a 550w psu for a 450w peak load) As for CPU's, we're supposed to be a week out from the 4790k launch which will replace 4770k. Mobo - those are expensive mobo's, if you're paying more than $140 or so, take a note of the features you want and why, then ask if there is another way to get them. $630 is a bad price for a Hawaii GPU, 290x is only ~3-4% faster than 290 clock for clock. US-newegg has the tri-x model for $410, but i'm not sure how much worse canadian prices are. The competitor to 290 is the 780, the 780ti is kinda premium priced and better than both. The performance difference between 780 and 780ti is easily 4x bigger than that between 290 and 290x, so the 290x doesn't really make sense to buy unless you're an enthusiast benchmarker or don't care for value. What kind of overclocks are you looking for on CPU and GPU's? (voltages used, or are you not sure?) a 4790k at a basic OC would use like 125w, and a pair of 290's ~300w each (at an OC, but not most extreme) which no problem for a quality 850w+ PSU | ||
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skyR
Canada13817 Posts
If you're not waiting for the 4790k, just get and older and less expensive Z87 motherboard. I can't think of one useful feature on the Z97 motherboard except for guaranteed Broadwell support but not many people are going to waste another $350 within a year or two for a marginal performance increase... and SATA Express won't be mainstream / affordable for a while, at least not within Broadwell's life. If you haven't had any problems with ASUS than you may just want to stick with ASUS. Their RMA center is in Canada and they offer advance RMA for their high-end products, their post-sale support have been good based on my experience. Can't say the same for MSI though. | ||
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B_Type13X2
Canada122 Posts
On May 24 2014 10:11 Cyro wrote: Some of the best power supplies on the planet are only ~550w rated. The quality of the PSU is not related to the capacity, and if you buy higher capacity than you need, the efficiency will drop (it makes sense to get a 550w psu for a 450w peak load) As for CPU's, we're supposed to be a week out from the 4790k launch which will replace 4770k. Mobo - those are expensive mobo's, if you're paying more than $140 or so, take a note of the features you want and why, then ask if there is another way to get them. $630 is a bad price for a Hawaii GPU, 290x is only ~3-4% faster than 290 clock for clock. US-newegg has the tri-x model for $410, but i'm not sure how much worse canadian prices are. The competitor to 290 is the 780, the 780ti is kinda premium priced and better than both. The performance difference between 780 and 780ti is easily 4x bigger than that between 290 and 290x, so the 290x doesn't really make sense to buy unless you're an enthusiast benchmarker or don't care for value. What kind of overclocks are you looking for on CPU and GPU's? (voltages used, or are you not sure?) a 4790k at a basic OC would use like 125w, and a pair of 290's ~300w each (at an OC, but not most extreme) which no problem for a quality 850w+ PSU I'm well aware that the quality of the PSU doesn't come from the wattage, it comes from quality components, and peak power rating (80+ silver, gold, etc.) my statement was more so to push it home that I absolutely will not cheap out on a PSU, I always buy more then I need so that when I'm in a store and I see a harddrive or another peripheral on sale I am not worried about whether or not my PSU can take plugging it in. I also live in a spot where our powergrid is overstressed for the population. (we have brown and blackouts every other weak in the summers and the lights tend to flicker) When I put in all my peripherals on a powersupply calculator and my planned videocard(s), my harddrives, the 2 blueray drives I am recycling, the fans, radiator's, fan controllers ETC. It spat out that I need a 1000W PSU an 80+ gold 1000W silver stone strider is currently the same price as the 1300W EVGA 80+ gold PSU and leaves me the ability to add even more later. My computers are generally kept in use for 6 years and power consumption keeps going up, so I don't think I'm off the mark in thinking 300W more then recommended is too much. I don't plan on doing an aggressive overclock, I plan on using the on the board presets to step up maybe 15%; the aggressive overclocking will take place when the components are bit older to extend the system life. http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814127773&cm_re=290x_r9-_-14-127-773-_-Product 589.99 after mail in rebate vs. http://www.memoryexpress.com/Products/MX49915 549.99$ after mail in rebate newegg gets way to much fanfare for what they actually offer especially in Canada. Memory express has 4 locations in the province where I live, they have 6 locations total, will pricematch / beat newegg, and will give me free shipping with shipping costs and price match included my computer from 4 years ago was literally 300$'s cheaper via memory express. As for the canadian pricing take the american price and multiply it by 1.1 for the exchange rate. That being said if the R9 290X isn't close to a pair of 780GTi's in SLI then I have to ask how does the pair compare to a R9 295X as the prices would be comparable for that multicard configuration vs. the single card 295X. I'm curious because SLI and crossfire have their own issues, when compared to a single card setup. Is the 4970k going to be the same socket as the 4770k? if so I can wait a week on that and order it when it comes out. The problem with CPU's and components on launch is always availability I have about a 2week period of time this summer where I will have the time to build this before I am to busy with work projects to invest time in a build. the motherboards picked I don't really view as that expensive, I've always chosen a premium board, I am building an enthusiasts PC, not a value PC, why would I put a 140$ board into a machine I'm comfortable spending 4000$'s on? The goal of building this computer is to have something that plays everything even conceived of game wise for the next 2-3 years very well, and everything for the next 5 years respectfully and finally is the minimum spec for games in 2020. | ||
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Cyro
United Kingdom20322 Posts
A pair of 290's or a single 295x2 is pretty much the same thing, when it really comes down to it. You can't easily clock the 295 x2 as high because it has only a single PCB and cooler, but then again, if it's a similar price to a pair of 290's, it can offer a more easily usable cooling system with the built in CLC. Performance across both would be similar | ||
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B_Type13X2
Canada122 Posts
On May 24 2014 10:50 skyR wrote: As Cyro said, quality and capacity are not related... A rocketfish (or whatever they are called or insert whatever other shit brand here as an example) 800w power supply may provide a lot less and a lot shittier power than a quality 650w power supply from Seasonic. If you're not waiting for the 4790k, just get and older and less expensive Z87 motherboard. I can't think of one useful feature on the Z97 motherboard except for guaranteed Broadwell support but not many people are going to waste another $350 within a year or two for a marginal performance increase... and SATA Express won't be mainstream / affordable for a while, at least not within Broadwell's life. If you haven't had any problems with ASUS than you may just want to stick with ASUS. Their RMA center is in Canada and they offer advance RMA for their high-end products, their post-sale support have been good based on my experience. Can't say the same for MSI though. you guys are focused on that 1300W number, I am well aware that big number doesn't mean quality, I still have a 650 Enermax Noisetaker running in a system built in 2005, I look at the certification on the powersupply not the number. But given my number of peripherals, harddrives, and devices being driven by the PSU I need a high capacity quality PSU. and the EVGA 1300W with the same 80+ gold rating on it is the same price as the 1000W Silverstone Strider gold that is in my old system. The point in the higher capacity is the room to grow. I didn't have 4 internal harddrives and 2 external harddrives when I built the PC this is replacing, but I do now. And PSU's can actually be used across multiple builds, point in fact that Enermax noisetaker, its been used in 4 computers since I purchased it. The Strider in my old one will likely be used in 2-3 more systems before it is retired as well. | ||
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skyR
Canada13817 Posts
Yes, Newegg in Canada is a piece of shit except for a few exceptions, one being their Rosewill Capstone power supply series. But Newegg in the states is very good and we do have many Americans or people who think that Newegg must be good in Canada too since we're just North of the US. If you have brownouts and blackouts than you should have a UPS. A quality oversized power supply isn't going to save you... since it's still drawing power from the wall. And power supply calculators are made to get you to spend more money than necessary, this is no secret. 80PLUS certification is not an indication of quality by any means. There are many 80 PLUS gold units that are not that great: some units only do gold efficiency at 40C instead of 50C where as some units are not even gold at all because the manufacturer sent in a non-retail unit to pass certification, and some gold units don't even use all Japanese caps. Just look at Corsair CS or RM series.. 80PLUS Gold but no one would consider them in the same league as Seasonic X. The EVGA SuperNova is an excellent unit but 1300w is very oversized. Why get a 1300w Gold when you can get a 1000w Platinum? And peripherals literally use no power in comparison to the CPU and GPU(s), a few HDDs isn't going to be an issue.. Why spend $200+ on a board that you're not going to take full advantage of? I mean getting a $4000 computer is fine but I hope you have a $4000 setup to match... | ||
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B_Type13X2
Canada122 Posts
On May 24 2014 10:57 Cyro wrote: If you're willing to spend $4k there are better ways to do it than spending 2.5x as much for no gain on z87 board, such as the 8-core Haswell-E platform next quarter (which will easily outperform 4770k by 1.8x) A pair of 290's or a single 295x2 is pretty much the same thing Until it is actually showing to outperform its predecessor by a factor of 1.8X it is hype and speculation. I have no doubt they will be faster, but not nearly 2X's as fast, and unless they are out next week well I wont be able to dedicate the time to building a new computer until next summer. You can spend your whole life waiting on the next big thing that beats X product with computers, and if the new processor family really is that much better, well I can always find another 400$'s to swap out a CPU. A Z97 vs. Z87 a Premium z87 board costs the same as a premium Z97 board, why would I choose the older chip set it is literally not saving me a single dollar... http://www.memoryexpress.com/Products/MX52029 Z97 variant for 274.99$ or http://www.memoryexpress.com/Products/MX45847 Z87 variant for $279.99 | ||
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Cyro
United Kingdom20322 Posts
Until it is actually showing to outperform its predecessor by a factor of 1.8X it is hype and speculation. I have no doubt they will be faster, but not nearly 2X's as fast I'm talking about Haswell-E, like the 5930k. It's Haswell with 8-cores releasing around next quarter. It's on x99 replacing the ~4930k, which is 6-core ivy bridge and significantly stronger than 4770k for most loads that benefit from >4 cores already - but it goes to 8 cores from 6, newer architecture (Haswell, what 4770k/4790k is) and also uses ddr4 RAM. Clock for clock, core to core, the chips with higher core counts as just as fast as the lower core count ones - 8 cores = twice as fast as four. They're harder to clock and cool, usually, but it's basically just 2x core count, similar performance in low threaded tasks, twice or almost twice the performance in tasks that will utilize the 8 cores, as this chip on release is basically just a double-4770k with ddr4 memory. | ||
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skyR
Canada13817 Posts
And Haswell-E is on the enthusiast platform, not on the mainstream platform. It will require X99 chipset and DDR4 memory.. so in total, you are probably going to spend like $2000 to $3000 on three components alone. $1000 for the octo core, $500 for motherboard, and $500+ for 32 GB DDR4. | ||
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B_Type13X2
Canada122 Posts
On May 24 2014 11:36 Cyro wrote: I'm talking about Haswell-E, like the 5930k. It's Haswell with 8-cores releasing around next quarter. It's on x99 replacing the ~4930k, which is 6-core ivy bridge and significantly stronger than ivy bridge already - but it goes to 8 cores from 6, newer architecture (Haswell, what 4770k/4790k is) and also uses ddr4 RAM. Clock for clock, core to core, the chips with higher core counts as just as fast as the lower core count ones - 8 cores = twice as fast as four. They're harder to clock and cool, usually, but it's basically just 2x core count, similar performance in low threaded tasks, twice or almost twice the performance in tasks that will utilize the 8 cores okay then, but still unless they are out in the next 2 weeks, I do not have the time to wait for them to arrive, I have said again and again, I will be busy until this period next year with my work, no more then 2 days off here and there so I have to get the best of what is available now. | ||
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Cyro
United Kingdom20322 Posts
On May 24 2014 11:39 B_Type13X2 wrote: okay then, but still unless they are out in the next 2 weeks, I do not have the time to wait for them to arrive, I have said again and again, I will be busy until this period next year with my work, no more then 2 days off here and there so I have to get the best of what is available now. Ok then, that's the 4770k or ~4790k if you want to hang on for the supposed but not completely solid June 2'nd release As for Haswell-E, i'd be hoping for less than $500 on the board and a lot of speculation for 8-core @$600. If that doesn't happen, it's a much harder sell. That's definitely months out, though | ||
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skyR
Canada13817 Posts
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B_Type13X2
Canada122 Posts
On May 24 2014 11:42 skyR wrote: And if you're going all out, why not get a Samsung 840 Pro or Intel 530, drives that perform on par or better than the Vertex 460, have a longer warranty (five years versus three), and arguably way better post-sale support? Trying to keep the price at or around 4000$'s I am not going all out on it, I honestly picked the Vertex 460 because I already owned a Vertex II, and hadn't done alot of reading about SSD's in the meantime, I was looking at the price point and the Vertex 460 is about 40-50$'s cheaper then the samsung, the same can be said about the intel, I'll have to put all the parts in I believe with everything I had on my list I was less then 3700$'s so I have some room to improve certain parts. | ||
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Kotreb
Croatia1392 Posts
edit: 660 oc vs r9 270? what would you get? Lately it just seems that nvidia is 1,2 steps in front of amd considering graphic cards... | ||
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