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On May 13 2014 15:46 Cyro wrote:Show nested quote +On May 13 2014 14:27 WindWolf wrote:
Do you guys think that a good Air-based cooling solution like a Noctua NH-D15 will be enough to cool an i7-4790k while overclocking? Given that CLC's are not really better than high end air.. uh, yea, you can OC a Haswell CPU without a custom water loop. As for 4790k, we don't know anything about Devil's Canyon CPU's, if there is any change at all to overclocking process or results - or the magnitude of temperature changes. I'l let you know when we have data~
I saw the specs for the 4790k on the Swedish tech site Sweclockers yestersay(source). Apparently 4.0Ghz base clock speed, while only consuming 4 more watts than a 4770k while not overclocking. And apparently, "Devil's Canyon" seems to have better heat conducting material than the earlier models.
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United Kingdom20323 Posts
On May 13 2014 16:08 WindWolf wrote:Show nested quote +On May 13 2014 15:46 Cyro wrote:On May 13 2014 14:27 WindWolf wrote:
Do you guys think that a good Air-based cooling solution like a Noctua NH-D15 will be enough to cool an i7-4790k while overclocking? Given that CLC's are not really better than high end air.. uh, yea, you can OC a Haswell CPU without a custom water loop. As for 4790k, we don't know anything about Devil's Canyon CPU's, if there is any change at all to overclocking process or results - or the magnitude of temperature changes. I'l let you know when we have data~ I saw the specs for the 4790k on the Swedish tech site Sweclockers yestersay( source). Apparently 4.0Ghz base clock speed, while only consuming 4 more watts than a 4770k while not overclocking. And apparently, "Devil's Canyon" seems to have better heat conducting material than the earlier models.
The 4ghz base clock, 4.4ghz turbo is rumor AFAIK.
TDP is long-duration-package-power-limit, it's not an estimation of power consumption. As an example of that, 4670k and 4770k both have the same TDP, even though 4770k draws ~15% more power when video encoding - you can't really take these numbers as being strongly related to power consumption, only very loosely. They also include the Integrated Graphics running at full load in those numbers - it's essentially just a shared average power budget which the cores use to go to turbo clocks instead of base clocks which the iGPU cuts into as well. This is made more confusing by VID's varying chip to chip - it's normal to get say one chip that'll use 1.05v at stock and another that will use 1.15v - the 1.15v chip will use significantly more power and turbo less in certain situations, if the power limit is intrusive.
Devil's Canyon is advertised to be better in terms of package materials and temperatures, but it could plausibly be a 5c difference or 20c, so have to wait and see. We should know within ~2.5 weeks, maybe much less.
There's a lot of rumor going around, but very little solid, trustable information - regarding quite a lot of stuff. I can give you temperature data for 4770k + silver arrow though if you want, nh-d15 should be a little better
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On May 13 2014 13:14 Incognoto wrote:Show nested quote +On May 13 2014 09:11 RiceAgainst wrote:
Does using a Haswell Refresh on H87 instead of H97 hurt the potential of the CPU? Or only really for overclocking on Z87 v Z97?
EDIT: Also, accidentally (?) bought an OEM HDD and OEM Optical Drive so no cables/manual...any advice? I got the usual 1 TB WD HDD and the $20Asus Optical everyone recommends. Well you don't need manuals. For both, you plug in the PSU's SATA cable and then use an actual SATA cable to connect your drives with the motherboard. SATA cables should have come with the motherboard, if not you can buy them on amazon for a few €/$. I believe you >need< a 97 board to use the Haswell refresh, just in terms of comptability. If you want to overclock then yes, you need a Z97 board for Haswell refresh.
Haswell Refresh works with all 8 series boards that have gotten a BIOS update to support the new CPUs. Only Devil's Canyon requires a 9 series board.
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On May 13 2014 20:48 skyR wrote:Show nested quote +On May 13 2014 13:14 Incognoto wrote:On May 13 2014 09:11 RiceAgainst wrote:
Does using a Haswell Refresh on H87 instead of H97 hurt the potential of the CPU? Or only really for overclocking on Z87 v Z97?
EDIT: Also, accidentally (?) bought an OEM HDD and OEM Optical Drive so no cables/manual...any advice? I got the usual 1 TB WD HDD and the $20Asus Optical everyone recommends. Well you don't need manuals. For both, you plug in the PSU's SATA cable and then use an actual SATA cable to connect your drives with the motherboard. SATA cables should have come with the motherboard, if not you can buy them on amazon for a few €/$. I believe you >need< a 97 board to use the Haswell refresh, just in terms of comptability. If you want to overclock then yes, you need a Z97 board for Haswell refresh. Haswell Refresh works with all 8 series boards that have gotten a BIOS update to support the new CPUs. Only Devil's Canyon requires a 9 series board.
Oh wait, I thought Devil's Canyon was the same thing as the Haswell Refresh? Or is Devil's Canyon only the 4690k and 4790k, e.g. unlocked Haswell refresh?
So basically you'd be able to run the 4970 and the 4690 on a Z87 board, no problem. But you won't be able to overclock a 4690k or a 4790k without a Z97 board.
Subtle difference, sorry about that
E: still I highly doubt Intel would ever release a CPU that couldn't overclock on air. Has that ever happened?
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On May 13 2014 21:23 Incognoto wrote:Show nested quote +On May 13 2014 20:48 skyR wrote:On May 13 2014 13:14 Incognoto wrote:On May 13 2014 09:11 RiceAgainst wrote:
Does using a Haswell Refresh on H87 instead of H97 hurt the potential of the CPU? Or only really for overclocking on Z87 v Z97?
EDIT: Also, accidentally (?) bought an OEM HDD and OEM Optical Drive so no cables/manual...any advice? I got the usual 1 TB WD HDD and the $20Asus Optical everyone recommends. Well you don't need manuals. For both, you plug in the PSU's SATA cable and then use an actual SATA cable to connect your drives with the motherboard. SATA cables should have come with the motherboard, if not you can buy them on amazon for a few €/$. I believe you >need< a 97 board to use the Haswell refresh, just in terms of comptability. If you want to overclock then yes, you need a Z97 board for Haswell refresh. Haswell Refresh works with all 8 series boards that have gotten a BIOS update to support the new CPUs. Only Devil's Canyon requires a 9 series board. Oh wait, I thought Devil's Canyon was the same thing as the Haswell Refresh? Or is Devil's Canyon only the 4690k and 4790k, e.g. unlocked Haswell refresh? So basically you'd be able to run the 4970 and the 4690 on a Z87 board, no problem. But you won't be able to overclock a 4690k or a 4790k without a Z97 board. Subtle difference, sorry about that E: still I highly doubt Intel would ever release a CPU that couldn't overclock on air. Has that ever happened?
Yes. Most xeons can't be overclocked.
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On May 13 2014 23:31 Rollin wrote:Show nested quote +On May 13 2014 21:23 Incognoto wrote:On May 13 2014 20:48 skyR wrote:On May 13 2014 13:14 Incognoto wrote:On May 13 2014 09:11 RiceAgainst wrote:
Does using a Haswell Refresh on H87 instead of H97 hurt the potential of the CPU? Or only really for overclocking on Z87 v Z97?
EDIT: Also, accidentally (?) bought an OEM HDD and OEM Optical Drive so no cables/manual...any advice? I got the usual 1 TB WD HDD and the $20Asus Optical everyone recommends. Well you don't need manuals. For both, you plug in the PSU's SATA cable and then use an actual SATA cable to connect your drives with the motherboard. SATA cables should have come with the motherboard, if not you can buy them on amazon for a few €/$. I believe you >need< a 97 board to use the Haswell refresh, just in terms of comptability. If you want to overclock then yes, you need a Z97 board for Haswell refresh. Haswell Refresh works with all 8 series boards that have gotten a BIOS update to support the new CPUs. Only Devil's Canyon requires a 9 series board. Oh wait, I thought Devil's Canyon was the same thing as the Haswell Refresh? Or is Devil's Canyon only the 4690k and 4790k, e.g. unlocked Haswell refresh? So basically you'd be able to run the 4970 and the 4690 on a Z87 board, no problem. But you won't be able to overclock a 4690k or a 4790k without a Z97 board. Subtle difference, sorry about that E: still I highly doubt Intel would ever release a CPU that couldn't overclock on air. Has that ever happened? Yes. Most xeons can't be overclocked.
They can't be overclocked because they're locked (like a standard 4670) ? Or is it because they hit a thermal limit way too fast for overclocking to be practical?
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On May 14 2014 00:11 Incognoto wrote:Show nested quote +On May 13 2014 23:31 Rollin wrote:On May 13 2014 21:23 Incognoto wrote:On May 13 2014 20:48 skyR wrote:On May 13 2014 13:14 Incognoto wrote:On May 13 2014 09:11 RiceAgainst wrote:
Does using a Haswell Refresh on H87 instead of H97 hurt the potential of the CPU? Or only really for overclocking on Z87 v Z97?
EDIT: Also, accidentally (?) bought an OEM HDD and OEM Optical Drive so no cables/manual...any advice? I got the usual 1 TB WD HDD and the $20Asus Optical everyone recommends. Well you don't need manuals. For both, you plug in the PSU's SATA cable and then use an actual SATA cable to connect your drives with the motherboard. SATA cables should have come with the motherboard, if not you can buy them on amazon for a few €/$. I believe you >need< a 97 board to use the Haswell refresh, just in terms of comptability. If you want to overclock then yes, you need a Z97 board for Haswell refresh. Haswell Refresh works with all 8 series boards that have gotten a BIOS update to support the new CPUs. Only Devil's Canyon requires a 9 series board. Oh wait, I thought Devil's Canyon was the same thing as the Haswell Refresh? Or is Devil's Canyon only the 4690k and 4790k, e.g. unlocked Haswell refresh? So basically you'd be able to run the 4970 and the 4690 on a Z87 board, no problem. But you won't be able to overclock a 4690k or a 4790k without a Z97 board. Subtle difference, sorry about that E: still I highly doubt Intel would ever release a CPU that couldn't overclock on air. Has that ever happened? Yes. Most xeons can't be overclocked. They can't be overclocked because they're locked (like a standard 4670) ? Or is it because they hit a thermal limit way too fast for overclocking to be practical?
Look for a table of the pricing. You need to pay a lot for the Xeons with higher clock speeds. Everything is locked so people can't get around paying those prices if they want a bunch of extra MHz. 
I mean something like this:
The Xeon E3 v3 fit into LGA1150 socket and can be used in normal boards. If you buy one at similar speeds to a normal CPU like 4770 or so, you don't really have to pay more. The price is normal. But there's something like this with Turbo Boost speeds up to 4.1 GHz:
http://ark.intel.com/products/80913/Intel-Xeon-Processor-E3-1286-v3-8M-Cache-3_70-GHz
It's $662.
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On May 13 2014 19:58 Cyro wrote:
TDP is long-duration-package-power-limit, it's not an estimation of power consumption.
...
Thanks for explaining that for me. Still getting used to all the technical terms and such
Devil's Canyon is advertised to be better in terms of package materials and temperatures, but it could plausibly be a 5c difference or 20c, so have to wait and see. We should know within ~2.5 weeks, maybe much less.
Not going to buy it until (at earliest) August anyway, so there is certainly time for more info to come out. If anything, I'm waiting for the GeForce GTX 800 series to launch (or at least more info on that front).
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If you're talking about 20nm Maxwell, those won't be appearing until end of year and may even slip to early next year.
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On May 14 2014 00:53 Ropid wrote:Show nested quote +On May 14 2014 00:11 Incognoto wrote:On May 13 2014 23:31 Rollin wrote:On May 13 2014 21:23 Incognoto wrote:On May 13 2014 20:48 skyR wrote:On May 13 2014 13:14 Incognoto wrote:On May 13 2014 09:11 RiceAgainst wrote:
Does using a Haswell Refresh on H87 instead of H97 hurt the potential of the CPU? Or only really for overclocking on Z87 v Z97?
EDIT: Also, accidentally (?) bought an OEM HDD and OEM Optical Drive so no cables/manual...any advice? I got the usual 1 TB WD HDD and the $20Asus Optical everyone recommends. Well you don't need manuals. For both, you plug in the PSU's SATA cable and then use an actual SATA cable to connect your drives with the motherboard. SATA cables should have come with the motherboard, if not you can buy them on amazon for a few €/$. I believe you >need< a 97 board to use the Haswell refresh, just in terms of comptability. If you want to overclock then yes, you need a Z97 board for Haswell refresh. Haswell Refresh works with all 8 series boards that have gotten a BIOS update to support the new CPUs. Only Devil's Canyon requires a 9 series board. Oh wait, I thought Devil's Canyon was the same thing as the Haswell Refresh? Or is Devil's Canyon only the 4690k and 4790k, e.g. unlocked Haswell refresh? So basically you'd be able to run the 4970 and the 4690 on a Z87 board, no problem. But you won't be able to overclock a 4690k or a 4790k without a Z97 board. Subtle difference, sorry about that E: still I highly doubt Intel would ever release a CPU that couldn't overclock on air. Has that ever happened? Yes. Most xeons can't be overclocked. They can't be overclocked because they're locked (like a standard 4670) ? Or is it because they hit a thermal limit way too fast for overclocking to be practical? Look for a table of the pricing. You need to pay a lot for the Xeons with higher clock speeds. Everything is locked so people can't get around paying those prices if they want a bunch of extra MHz. I mean something like this: The Xeon E3 v3 fit into LGA1150 socket and can be used in normal boards. If you buy one at similar speeds to a normal CPU like 4770 or so, you don't really have to pay more. The price is normal. But there's something like this with Turbo Boost speeds up to 4.1 GHz: http://ark.intel.com/products/80913/Intel-Xeon-Processor-E3-1286-v3-8M-Cache-3_70-GHzIt's $662.
Haha well there you have it. Might as well go normal i5/i7 and just overclock that. ^^
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On May 14 2014 02:57 skyR wrote:
If you're talking about 20nm Maxwell, those won't be appearing until end of year and may even slip to early next year.
Bummer
But we'll what happens.
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What is your budget?
Around $2000 but not set in stone either
What is your monitor's native resolution?
1880x1050
What games do you intend to play on this computer? What settings?
Diablo 3, sc2. Also open for other games in the future.
Not sure about what settings really. I guess, i prefer High settings-Ultra
What do you intend to use the computer for besides gaming?
Create stuff, design stuff. Like make a new video game. Edit stuff in videos.
Do you intend to overclock?
I guess so. I am guessing here but its a huge bonus doing it? Any reason not to do it?
Do you intend to do SLI / Crossfire?
If this makes me make video games and edit better, and stuff like that, then sure iam open for it
Do you need an operating system?
Not sure i understand the question. Yes I do need an operating system.
Do you need a monitor or any other peripherals and is this part of your budget?
Yes, I need a new monitor. Its not part of the budget.
If you have any requirements or brand preferences, please specify.
It needs to be as silence as possible. It needs to function Well/Solid with designing/creating/editing stuff. Also work well with gaming.
What country will you be buying your parts in?
Sweden
If you have any retailer preferences, please specify.
Inet.se
This is the store i will buy from because they will build the computer for me
EDIT: I edited it a few times but i think iam done now if u missed it
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United Kingdom20323 Posts
Do you intend to overclock?
I guess so. But i wont do it in the bios, i only do it if its possible to do it in windows(if its easy to do it)
Bios is mandatory for safe and effective overclocking, pretty much. What's the difference between doing it in a bios screen or waiting 10 seconds for OS to load for you? Overclocking on the motherboard level bypasses OS+other software entirely for safety, stability and ease of use. It's not any more difficult or anything to do
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The black ones look really nice. Looks nicer than those included in the NH-D15
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On May 14 2014 05:19 Cyro wrote:Show nested quote +Do you intend to overclock?
I guess so. But i wont do it in the bios, i only do it if its possible to do it in windows(if its easy to do it) Bios is mandatory for safe and effective overclocking, pretty much. What's the difference between doing it in a bios screen or waiting 10 seconds for OS to load for you? Overclocking on the motherboard level bypasses OS+other software entirely for safety, stability and ease of use. It's not any more difficult or anything to do
Okay. Then i am willing to do it in the bios then.
My thought was that in bios it was complicated and in windows it was very easy.
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United Kingdom20323 Posts
On May 14 2014 05:23 Foxxan wrote:Show nested quote +On May 14 2014 05:19 Cyro wrote:Do you intend to overclock?
I guess so. But i wont do it in the bios, i only do it if its possible to do it in windows(if its easy to do it) Bios is mandatory for safe and effective overclocking, pretty much. What's the difference between doing it in a bios screen or waiting 10 seconds for OS to load for you? Overclocking on the motherboard level bypasses OS+other software entirely for safety, stability and ease of use. It's not any more difficult or anything to do Okay. Then i am willing to do it in the bios then. My thought was that in bios it was complicated and in windows it was very easy.
![[image loading]](http://images.bit-tech.net/content_images/2013/09/gigabyte-ga-z87n-wifi-review/ga-z87n-10b-1280x1024.jpg)
This isn't so bad
Well, it's a little complex if you don't know what you're doing, but being locked into an OS, having settings apply on boot instead of before - and only having access to like a quarter of the settings even if you need the others, that's not much better. In-OS overclocking is pretty much dead, if it was ever alive
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Hey guys, I've been putting away this post a long time, in short, to say thank you all.
On Black Friday of last year I ordered from 4 places on the net and built my first computer all by myself following instructions, recommendations and advice from people here.
It's been running very well, performing at the highest of my expectations and even better, it is quieter than a fly!
It would never have been possible without this thread and I would probably have overpaid for a cheap ibuypower or some other place.
Again, thank you.
PS : Spec in the spoiler
+ Show Spoiler +
eVGA 500B 500W Bronze Power Supply
Fractal Design Define R4 ATX Tower Case Black Pearl
Gigabyte Z87X-D3H ATX LGA1150 Z87 DDR
Samsung 840 Evo Series MZ-7TE120BW 120GB 2.5in SATA III Internal SSD
Intel Core i5-4670K Processor
VGA ASUS|GTX770-DC2OC-2GD5 R
CPU COOLING NOCTUA| NH-U14S R
MEM 2x4G|G.SKILL F3-2133C9D-8GXL R
Everything cost me a little under 1300$ iirc, including shipping. Since then I added a BenQ XL2420TE Monitor and had no regrets.
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On May 14 2014 05:20 WindWolf wrote:The black ones look really nice. Looks nicer than those included in the NH-D15
If you aren't decided on the NH-D15 and don't really like its looks, really just want some large two-tower air cooler that's at the top and somewhat of a luxury, look at these:
"Cryorig R1 Ultimate" <--- new cooler and very strong just like NH-D15
"Phanteks PH-TC14PE" <--- this one comes in different colors
"BeQuiet Dark Rock Pro 3" <--- great looks but strange mounting method, hard to handle the installation I bet, very quiet fans so perhaps losing a little when the other coolers run their fans at top speed
"Thermalright Silver Arrow SB-E" <--- there's a special edition with black and white fans
"Thermalright Silver Arrow IB-E" <--- a newer model with tweaks to make it fit better into smaller cases, there's an "extreme" edition with ridiculously fast orange colored fans but nothing with black and white fans
If you strip all of those to the metal parts and just look at the cooler itself, they are all very similar performance. They all come with great fans without strange motor noise or other problems like that. You can choose whatever you like best.
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On May 14 2014 05:54 Cyro wrote:Show nested quote +On May 14 2014 05:23 Foxxan wrote:On May 14 2014 05:19 Cyro wrote:Do you intend to overclock?
I guess so. But i wont do it in the bios, i only do it if its possible to do it in windows(if its easy to do it) Bios is mandatory for safe and effective overclocking, pretty much. What's the difference between doing it in a bios screen or waiting 10 seconds for OS to load for you? Overclocking on the motherboard level bypasses OS+other software entirely for safety, stability and ease of use. It's not any more difficult or anything to do Okay. Then i am willing to do it in the bios then. My thought was that in bios it was complicated and in windows it was very easy. + Show Spoiler +This isn't so bad Well, it's a little complex if you don't know what you're doing, but being locked into an OS, having settings apply on boot instead of before - and only having access to like a quarter of the settings even if you need the others, that's not much better. In-OS overclocking is pretty much dead, if it was ever alive
Speaking of, what do you think of the menu driven overclocks on the Gigabyte Z87-D3H? I think there's a preset or two that will "automatically" overclock the CPU. Can't be as good as doing it manually, but if say I just wanted to bump to 4 Ghz on my i5 4670k, is it an option?
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EPT
