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United Kingdom20344 Posts
On May 14 2014 06:21 felisconcolori wrote:Show nested quote +On May 14 2014 05:54 Cyro wrote:On May 14 2014 05:23 Foxxan wrote:On May 14 2014 05:19 Cyro wrote:Do you intend to overclock?
I guess so. But i wont do it in the bios, i only do it if its possible to do it in windows(if its easy to do it) Bios is mandatory for safe and effective overclocking, pretty much. What's the difference between doing it in a bios screen or waiting 10 seconds for OS to load for you? Overclocking on the motherboard level bypasses OS+other software entirely for safety, stability and ease of use. It's not any more difficult or anything to do Okay. Then i am willing to do it in the bios then. My thought was that in bios it was complicated and in windows it was very easy. + Show Spoiler +This isn't so bad Well, it's a little complex if you don't know what you're doing, but being locked into an OS, having settings apply on boot instead of before - and only having access to like a quarter of the settings even if you need the others, that's not much better. In-OS overclocking is pretty much dead, if it was ever alive Speaking of, what do you think of the menu driven overclocks on the Gigabyte Z87-D3H? I think there's a preset or two that will "automatically" overclock the CPU. Can't be as good as doing it manually, but if say I just wanted to bump to 4 Ghz on my i5 4670k, is it an option?
No. They range from quite suboptimal to outright dangerous. If you really want to bump to 4ghz instead of the stock 3.7-3.9 depending on load, you can do it manually and probably undervolt in the process - you don't need anything other than very basic knowledge unless you're actually stressing the hardware, like using 1.3-1.45vcore.
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On May 14 2014 06:28 Cyro wrote:Show nested quote +On May 14 2014 06:21 felisconcolori wrote:On May 14 2014 05:54 Cyro wrote:On May 14 2014 05:23 Foxxan wrote:On May 14 2014 05:19 Cyro wrote:Do you intend to overclock?
I guess so. But i wont do it in the bios, i only do it if its possible to do it in windows(if its easy to do it) Bios is mandatory for safe and effective overclocking, pretty much. What's the difference between doing it in a bios screen or waiting 10 seconds for OS to load for you? Overclocking on the motherboard level bypasses OS+other software entirely for safety, stability and ease of use. It's not any more difficult or anything to do Okay. Then i am willing to do it in the bios then. My thought was that in bios it was complicated and in windows it was very easy. + Show Spoiler +This isn't so bad Well, it's a little complex if you don't know what you're doing, but being locked into an OS, having settings apply on boot instead of before - and only having access to like a quarter of the settings even if you need the others, that's not much better. In-OS overclocking is pretty much dead, if it was ever alive Speaking of, what do you think of the menu driven overclocks on the Gigabyte Z87-D3H? I think there's a preset or two that will "automatically" overclock the CPU. Can't be as good as doing it manually, but if say I just wanted to bump to 4 Ghz on my i5 4670k, is it an option? No. They range from quite suboptimal to outright dangerous. If you really want to bump to 4ghz instead of the stock 3.7-3.9 depending on load, you can do it manually and probably undervolt in the process - you don't need anything other than very basic knowledge unless you're actually stressing the hardware, like using 1.3-1.45vcore.
1.3 vcore is a lot actually. I think you could brainlessly overclock to 4.1 GHz, maybe 4.2 GHz. It's going above those clocks that gets tricky with Haswell but isn't impossible. That's the impression I get reading the haswell oc thread on oc.net
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United Kingdom20344 Posts
4.5ghz @1.3vcore is the median oc out of those charted on the OCN thread with ~170 chips* - it's not pushing a chip to the point where you're screwed unless you have knowledge of some of the finer interactions between settings, you hardly run into any issues even mindlessly throwing vcore/coremulti around at 1.2-1.3vcore. Hell, many chips run like 1.15v at stock. I can run like 4.1-4.2 on stock voltage and everything else auto - it's not much of an overclock.
*1.28 bios.. which is 1.3@load
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On May 14 2014 06:20 Ropid wrote:Show nested quote +On May 14 2014 05:20 WindWolf wrote:The black ones look really nice. Looks nicer than those included in the NH-D15 If you aren't decided on the NH-D15 and don't really like its looks, really just want some large two-tower air cooler that's at the top and somewhat of a luxury, look at these: "Cryorig R1 Ultimate" <--- new cooler and very strong just like NH-D15 "Phanteks PH-TC14PE" <--- this one comes in different colors "BeQuiet Dark Rock Pro 3" <--- great looks but strange mounting method, hard to handle the installation I bet, very quiet fans so perhaps losing a little when the other coolers run their fans at top speed "Thermalright Silver Arrow SB-E" <--- there's a special edition with black and white fans "Thermalright Silver Arrow IB-E" <--- a newer model with tweaks to make it fit better into smaller cases, there's an "extreme" edition with ridiculously fast orange colored fans but nothing with black and white fans If you strip all of those to the metal parts and just look at the cooler itself, they are all very similar performance. They all come with great fans without strange motor noise or other problems like that. You can choose whatever you like best.
No, it's not like that for me, the standard NH-D15 fans are ok. It's just that the black ones looks nicer
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On May 14 2014 15:41 WindWolf wrote:Show nested quote +On May 14 2014 06:20 Ropid wrote:On May 14 2014 05:20 WindWolf wrote:The black ones look really nice. Looks nicer than those included in the NH-D15 If you aren't decided on the NH-D15 and don't really like its looks, really just want some large two-tower air cooler that's at the top and somewhat of a luxury, look at these: "Cryorig R1 Ultimate" <--- new cooler and very strong just like NH-D15 "Phanteks PH-TC14PE" <--- this one comes in different colors "BeQuiet Dark Rock Pro 3" <--- great looks but strange mounting method, hard to handle the installation I bet, very quiet fans so perhaps losing a little when the other coolers run their fans at top speed "Thermalright Silver Arrow SB-E" <--- there's a special edition with black and white fans "Thermalright Silver Arrow IB-E" <--- a newer model with tweaks to make it fit better into smaller cases, there's an "extreme" edition with ridiculously fast orange colored fans but nothing with black and white fans If you strip all of those to the metal parts and just look at the cooler itself, they are all very similar performance. They all come with great fans without strange motor noise or other problems like that. You can choose whatever you like best. No, it's not like that for me, the standard NH-D15 fans are ok. It's just that the black ones looks nicer
Well, you can change the fans on the Noctua cooler. The mounting method for them isn't that esoteric.
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United Kingdom20344 Posts
On May 15 2014 04:25 felisconcolori wrote:Show nested quote +On May 14 2014 15:41 WindWolf wrote:On May 14 2014 06:20 Ropid wrote:On May 14 2014 05:20 WindWolf wrote:The black ones look really nice. Looks nicer than those included in the NH-D15 If you aren't decided on the NH-D15 and don't really like its looks, really just want some large two-tower air cooler that's at the top and somewhat of a luxury, look at these: "Cryorig R1 Ultimate" <--- new cooler and very strong just like NH-D15 "Phanteks PH-TC14PE" <--- this one comes in different colors "BeQuiet Dark Rock Pro 3" <--- great looks but strange mounting method, hard to handle the installation I bet, very quiet fans so perhaps losing a little when the other coolers run their fans at top speed "Thermalright Silver Arrow SB-E" <--- there's a special edition with black and white fans "Thermalright Silver Arrow IB-E" <--- a newer model with tweaks to make it fit better into smaller cases, there's an "extreme" edition with ridiculously fast orange colored fans but nothing with black and white fans If you strip all of those to the metal parts and just look at the cooler itself, they are all very similar performance. They all come with great fans without strange motor noise or other problems like that. You can choose whatever you like best. No, it's not like that for me, the standard NH-D15 fans are ok. It's just that the black ones looks nicer Well, you can change the fans on the Noctua cooler. The mounting method for them isn't that esoteric.
But a pair of those 150mm fans are worth quite a bit, and it's expensive largely because of that. A pair of them cost ~£38 (equivalent of ~64usd) here, so that's a massive hit to take just because you don't like the color.
One of the big plusses for air is price, at least when/where i was making my choice - Silver arrow SB-E SE for £50 or a H100i for £95-99*? That was pretty easy, but i'd still consider running a 2x140mm or 3x120mm clc, particularly with custom fans for performance gain - it's just that h100i doesn't have the kick to justify it.
2x 120*120mm = 100% area
2x 140*140mm = ~136.1% area
3x 120*120mm = 150% area
Nh-d15 is very expensive, because it's pretty much the best air cooler and the fans are great. It's too expensive to replace the fans on, unless it's a really big deal to you, or you just want the best of air with your own fans, without so much regard for budget
*Prices are a bit lower for clc now, bit higher for air
Hey guys, an interesting look at DirectX driver efficiency:
![[image loading]](http://images.anandtech.com/graphs/graph7963/63253.png)
![[image loading]](http://images.anandtech.com/graphs/graph7963/63289.png)
The i3. Other numbers are diluted a bit because they are GPU bottlenecked at times, i think (being 1080p max settings maybe with AA) but i3 ones are not.
99'th percentile:
![[image loading]](http://images.anandtech.com/graphs/graph7963/63256.png)
![[image loading]](http://images.anandtech.com/graphs/graph7963/63292.png)
86.1 drops to 69, that's ~25% faster with one driver instead of the other one.
i3 drops from 56.8 to 43.6 (30% faster with nvidia)
These pretty clearly show ~44% higher average FPS in a realistic CPU limited situation:
i3 has 95.5fps average and stays above ~56.8 for 99% of frames when using Nvidia DX driver
i3 has 66.1fps average and stays above ~43.6 for 99% of frames when using AMD DX driver
I'd call those pretty serious and convincing results that apply to a majority of people. This majorly affects everybody trying to maintain even 60fps with an ~fx6300, Haswell i3, some locked i5's (2400 etc) or anything weaker. In the pursuing of Mantle performance (which was patched into 2 games after launch, looks great but is far from widespread adoption in cpu-limited games) AMD has quite clearly gone from a little bit behind in terms of directX CPU optimization to a massive amount behind
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Mini-ATX rig for LAN and 3D gaming at 1920 x 1080p with medium-high settings.(low-medium-high-ultra)
I originally wanted an i3 + Show Spoiler + and a GTX 750 Ti.
But I want to play my 3D Steam library; I'd like to play Metro 2033, Dishonored, Witcher 2, Bioshock : Infinite in medium-ultra settings. and the Witcher 3 : Wild Hunt in low-medium settings.
My budget is $1400, and I'm not overclocking. I plan to add a 2nd monitor and 1 TB WD Black HDD later.
I'm concerned about the aesthetics of the machine and using recommended quality products.
Everything must be ordered from Newegg.
Case - Fractal Design Node 304 - $90
OS - Windows 7 Home 64-Bit - $100
PSU - Rosewill FORTRESS-550 550W -$110 (quality preferred, but would use Corsair, etc)
SSD - Crucial M550 256GB - $170
Mobo - MSI Z87I AC LGA 1150 Intel Z87 - $140
RAM - CORSAIR Vengeance 8GB - $90
Monitor - SAMSUNG S23C450D Matte Black 23" 5ms - $190
CPU - Intel Core i5-4690 Haswell 3.5GHz LGA 1150 84W - $225
GPU - EVGA 02G-P4-2763-KR GeForce GTX 760 2GB - $260
$1,373 w/o s/h + tax
$25 for a 32Gig TOPRAM flash drive for the OS installation
Thank you to the gurus on this holy domain in the nether.
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Not 100% sure, but you probably can't use the 4690 in this board. It's one of those new "Haswell Refresh" CPUs. It might work after a BIOS update, but you can't flash a BIOS update without an old CPU because the board won't boot at all on the new CPU. You will probably have to wait a few weeks for new boards if you want this CPU over the 4670.
You should be able to find cheaper stuff for various parts. I bet there's a cheaper board with WiFi. You should be able to find cheaper 1600 MHz 9-9-9-24 RAM. The PSU is pretty overkill, but if you want that efficiency I guess that's the price, but it's not modular which could be a headache for ITX. Better save some money and buy Capstone 450-M. It's enough Watts, can also live in a hot environment, and you can remove all cables you don't use on it.
I'd look around a lot for various ITX cases if you didn't yet do it. There are a lot of strange ITX cases and you might stumble upon one that you like a lot. The one you chose is already pretty compact and should fit well into a bag, so finding something that's more practical isn't that likely. The only thing that can be even smaller is something that skips the 3.5 inch drive bays this case has, but that usually causes the room for graphics card to shrink so wouldn't be usable for you. So looking around would just be to see if you find something that you think is super neat.
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Thanks for the catching the CPU mismatch.
Might scale down the parts here. Go back to G.Skill set, 450W Capstone, and i5 4670. The problem with the modular PSU is people have recommended to use a non-modular in the Fractal Case because of a space issue with the angle of a modular cable compared to a single sprouting cable mess from the corner.
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Node 304 can only accommodate power supplies up to ~160mm in length. Both the Capstone and Fortress are longer than 160mm.
If you aren't overclocking than there are slightly less expensive H87 ITX boards.
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With the mini form factor, I'm finding the investment into the fully modular PSU might be necessary. Do GPU's use the PCIE cable from the PSU, or do they get their power from the mobo?
The Cooler Master Elite 130 seems like a better case.
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Most GTX 760 will require two PCIe connectors (one 6pin and one 6+2pin) from the power supply. Basically, any card above $100 will require a PCIe connector except for the two new Maxwell cards (GTX 750 and GTX 750 Ti).
GTX 750 Ti on the other hand does not use any PCIe connectors from the power supply and gets its power directly from the PCIe slot.
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Case - CM Elite 130 - $50
OS - Windows 7 Home 64-Bit - $100
PSU - SeaSonic G Series SSR-550RM 550W - $80
SSD - Crucial M550 256GB - $170
Mobo - ASUS H87I-PLUS LGA 1150 Intel H87 - $103
RAM - CORSAIR Vengeance 8GB - $75
Monitor - SAMSUNG S23C450D Matte Black 23" 5ms - $190
CPU - Intel Core i5-4670 Haswell 3.4GHz LGA 1150 84W - $220
GPU - EVGA 02G-P4-2763-KR GeForce GTX 760 2GB - $260
$1246 w/o tax or shipping
Thank you Ropid and skyR!
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That new motherboard you chose does not have WiFi. Is that alright and not a mistake? The first one you chose had it.
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On May 16 2014 11:32 Ropid wrote:
That new motherboard you chose does not have WiFi. Is that alright and not a mistake? The first one you chose had it.
I would prefer it, but did my best to accessorize. I will use my ethernet connection for gaming, but wanted a little more accessibility previously.
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I don't know if the Seasonic PSU will fit in the Elite 130. I find these dimensions on the newegg website: 6.3" x 5.9" x 3.39"
On the CM website, they write this about the PSU:
PSU length:
180mm/ 7.1 inch (w/ less cable management)
142mm / 5.6 inch (w/ full cable management)
I don't know what that means. 
Look at this board I found on newegg.com:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813128721
It has the next chipset H97! It would fit that CPU you originally chose that has 100 MHz higher Turbo Boost (for same price?).
EDIT: It was this CPU, $5 more and 100 MHz: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819116989
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Unless you're buying the M550 for hardware encryption, power-loss protection, etc than a Samsung 840 EVO 250GB would be better at $148: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=9SIA29P1EC5222 or $139 at Amazon.
I'd also just get the Capstone if you aren't getting a Node 304 (or another case with PSU restrictions) but it seems that the modular 450 and 550 are OOS atm. Another option to consider is the XFX XTR 550, which is fully modular at $90 though that's OOS at Newegg as well.
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On May 16 2014 11:41 Ropid wrote:I don't know if the Seasonic PSU will fit in the Elite 130. I find these dimensions on the newegg website: 6.3" x 5.9" x 3.39" On the CM website, they write this about the PSU: PSU length: 180mm/ 7.1 inch (w/ less cable management) 142mm / 5.6 inch (w/ full cable management) I don't know what that means. Look at this board I found on newegg.com: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813128721It has the next chipset H97! It would fit that CPU you originally chose that has 100 MHz higher Turbo Boost (for same price?). EDIT: It was this CPU, $5 more and 100 MHz: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819116989
Yes! (w/ full cable management)
Good finds! (w/ less cable management) Who knows!?
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Just get the Silverstone Strider 450 SFX Fully Modular PSU. I'm 99% sure it comes with a ATX Bracket and it has short cables so you wouldn't need to stash cables everywhere.
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EPT![[image loading]](http://images.bit-tech.net/content_images/2013/09/gigabyte-ga-z87n-wifi-review/ga-z87n-10b-1280x1024.jpg)
