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On December 11 2013 22:05 IMKR wrote:quick question guys, I got all my parts except for the GPU and OS. i got this question answered + Show Spoiler +On December 07 2013 17:38 IMKR wrote:
I have all my parts coming by next week, except the GPU.
after i come back from winter break, i plan on putting in the gpu, (assuming i dont get a gpu in time b4 i head back home for break)
so i want to build my pc to make sure everything else is working.
if i make my PC w/o the GPU, what steps differ? (other than the obv not puting in GPU)
and later on, when i add in the GPU, how would i do that? but, the problem is with the OS. i was ganna get a free copy of windows 7 from my school, but my schools contract ended so they are renegotiating the contract with Microsoft. meaning, i have to wait until the contract is back up, so it could be couple weeks. (maybe next semester) so my question is, can i build my pc w/o the OS? (i know i cant run it or anythign) but i just want to put it together and try booting up to make sure my parts are all working. is this still okay? and if it is, do i just shut off the pc after i turn it on to make sure its working?
Yes, you can boot up to check if everything is okay and then shut it down without an operating system. Though you might as well just burn Windows to a disc for installation and just enter the cd-key when the school gives it to you. No sense in having $1000 sit around being a paperweight.
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Yeah it'll still turn on, it'll just tell you have no OS to boot. Normally you would have the Windows DVD in your optical drive and then when you'd boot the computer you'd get to the Windows installation screen (maybe you have to hit some keys or something, can't remember).
If you have everything except the GPU and the OS, you can assemble everything and when you boot it should take you to the BIOS. If you get to the BIOS and you find normal temperatures (aka not 80°C+) then it means that your computer is probably properly assembled.
To turn off just hit the power switch.
Edit: Oh can you install Windows, have a working computer and simply enter the CD key at a later date?
Edit 2: Btw, thoughts? http://wccftech.com/amds-flagship-a10-kaveri-apu-bundled-battlefield-4/
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Yeah, with no license entered it'll bug you every so often until I think they pull the plug eventually.
What are you asking about, Incognito? BF4 bundle, Mantle, Kaveri performance, or what?
Also, wow, a lot of tech sites have terrible writing and article quality.
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Huh, for some reason I have sound interference whose frequency varies directly with my GPU Engine Frequency. It's weird...the as I increase GPU Core Freq. the sound interference gets higher pitched, and it gets lower pitched when I lower the GPU Core Freq.
The volume settings I choose have no effect on the hum. It also doesn't come through my headphones, but through my speakers.
What does this mean, and what can I do to stop it?
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United Kingdom20326 Posts
On December 11 2013 12:31 iTzSnypah wrote:
Learn a lot more about computers (yours too) before jumping blindly into the 'I want to say I'm an enthusiast' crowd.
Indeed this, give it a few years and read up a lot if you're really that interested
I read in a magazine yesterday (I had time to kill in a train station) that AMD processors aren't as energy efficient as Intel's stuff (or maybe it was just Haswell vs the AMD equivalent). They consume a lot more energy.
I wouldn't expect a random magazine to have good numbers, and it depends a lot on the cpu, clocks etc; but piledriver vs haswell at high clocks, FX pulls ~1.5-2x more power depending on the volts used. Haswell's variance in performance with a given voltage is larger; there's some great chips that will just clock better and give better performance before having to add a lot of voltage, but reasonably rare and not a good general picture
Also on Kaveri; 3.7ghz core, 720mhz gpu; It'd be awesome if you could throw a hr-02 macho on it and clock to 4.5/1k+
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On December 12 2013 07:21 iTzSnypah wrote:
It means don't use HDMI?
I don't use HDMI audio. I fixed the issue by unplugging my speakers (they were both off and not the default playback device, but I guess the interference reached the subwoofer which made the hum).
Now I have a similar problem...when I play any games I have a similar sound in my headphones, very loud, that varies with GPU load in game. It's quite annoying.
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On December 12 2013 12:34 Mavvie wrote:I don't use HDMI audio. I fixed the issue by unplugging my speakers (they were both off and not the default playback device, but I guess the interference reached the subwoofer which made the hum). Now I have a similar problem...when I play any games I have a similar sound in my headphones, very loud, that varies with GPU load in game. It's quite annoying.
I have the same with my onboard audio device. I can reduce the noise so much that I can't hear it by increasing the volume in the Windows volume mixer and reducing volume externally through a volume control slider on the headphone cable or knob on the speakers.
That works because the noise is some sort of interference and completely independent from actual audio being played by the onboard sound. Decreasing the external volume control dampens the noise, but increasing the Windows volume control does nothing to it.
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On December 12 2013 12:41 Ropid wrote:Show nested quote +On December 12 2013 12:34 Mavvie wrote:On December 12 2013 07:21 iTzSnypah wrote:
It means don't use HDMI? I don't use HDMI audio. I fixed the issue by unplugging my speakers (they were both off and not the default playback device, but I guess the interference reached the subwoofer which made the hum). Now I have a similar problem...when I play any games I have a similar sound in my headphones, very loud, that varies with GPU load in game. It's quite annoying. I have the same with my onboard audio device. I can reduce the noise so much that I can't hear it by increasing the volume in the Windows volume mixer and reducing volume externally through a volume control slider on the headphone cable or knob on the speakers. That works because the noise is some sort of interference and completely independent from actual audio being played by the onboard sound. Decreasing the external volume control dampens the noise, but increasing the Windows volume control does nothing to it.
That sucks. I'll look into that solution, but right now I don't have any headphones with that functionality.
Is it caused by a defective audio card? Or a defective GPU generating too much interference? Or is it just a shitty onboard audio card that isn't shielded properly?
I wonder if this happens to most people with the D3H, and if it would go away if I grabbed a new (+better) GPU.
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Combination of the designs of the video card and the motherboard with respect to the audio implementation. It's more than just shielding. They're not defective in the sense of being able to return it for a different one that's fine.
If you used a different sound card, especially an external one, it could avoid this problem to begin with. Or you could do as suggested and have an external amp or volume control (uh... really, just an inline resistor here) reduce the level after increasing the volume in software to max.
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From what I've seen on my board, I'm pretty convinced it's just not shielded properly, but there's also the fact that its amplifier is super strong. If I put the volume in Windows to 15%, it's already be pretty loud on the headphones. Wherever the noise gets put into the audio signal, its' apparently in front of the amplifier. The amp also amplifies that shitty noise. I searched around how to configure the amplifier which would fix the problem for me, but it's apparently simply not possible.
I ran the PC without a graphics card and using the integrated graphics for a while, and I think I remember weird noise in the headphones with the integrated graphics. I'm guessing a different graphics card won't do anything.
There's USB DACs and sound cards and maybe there's something cheap and good along those lines. I tried finding an attenuator that does -20db (to make it possible to use normal volume in the mixer instead of those 15%) but did not find anything that was using simple 3.5mm connectors.
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Yeah, but if the graphics card design paid more attention to EMI (okay, sometimes this would require spending more money) then it would radiate less interference in the first place. And depending on routing of lines for the audio, it might pick up less interference. And what if some of the problem isn't due to radiation but the board voltages fluctuating with the load or something else? (in other words, I wouldn't lay the blame on shielding necessarily, though that's one aspect probably)
In your case, maybe it wasn't the graphics card, but sometimes it is the graphics card.
You could solder a couple of resistors to make an attenuator, but that would require having parts and tools. In addition to just getting some alternate sound card, you could use an external amp as a volume control. Technically that would avoid some of the issues with inline volume control with resistors for some headphones. FiiO E5/E6 is like $20-25. Nah, you might as well get a USB sound card at that cost.
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On December 12 2013 10:02 Cyro wrote:Show nested quote +On December 11 2013 12:31 iTzSnypah wrote:
Learn a lot more about computers (yours too) before jumping blindly into the 'I want to say I'm an enthusiast' crowd. Indeed this, give it a few years and read up a lot if you're really that interested Show nested quote +I read in a magazine yesterday (I had time to kill in a train station) that AMD processors aren't as energy efficient as Intel's stuff (or maybe it was just Haswell vs the AMD equivalent). They consume a lot more energy. I wouldn't expect a random magazine to have good numbers, and it depends a lot on the cpu, clocks etc; but piledriver vs haswell at high clocks, FX pulls ~1.5-2x more power depending on the volts used. Haswell's variance in performance with a given voltage is larger; there's some great chips that will just clock better and give better performance before having to add a lot of voltage, but reasonably rare and not a good general picture Also on Kaveri; 3.7ghz core, 720mhz gpu; It'd be awesome if you could throw a hr-02 macho on it and clock to 4.5/1k+
That's pretty insane though isn't it? It means that Haswell is probably going to produce less heat than the Piledriver CPU, which is what I wanted to tell the guy who wanted to water cool. I think the gist of it is right.
What's one of the quietest high performance air coolers out there? I was thinking Noctua's stuff but I wasn't 100% sure. There's also the True Spirit line of heatsinks which aren't bad I think.
Anyway, that (shitty) article I linked said that Kaveri was going to have 50% increase in performance to the i5 4670k in terms of "gaming". I thought Kaveri would simply be a product based on value. Either way, even if its APU is really as good as it is, gamers are still going to be be putting in real GPUs to their rigs.
So I kind of have mixed feelings on Kaveri, not sure what to think of it. I know it's been discussed in the thread before but I'm interested in hearing what people think of it overall. I'm guessing that without real benchmarks and whatnot it's actually hard to judge, right?
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United Kingdom20326 Posts
What's one of the quietest high performance air coolers out there? I was thinking Noctua's stuff but I wasn't 100% sure.
Any of the high end air coolers perform awesomely with fans as low as ~500rpm; noise isn't really an issue with them, they're the quietest solution at that performance level short of a custom loop, AFAIK
Anyway, that (shitty) article I linked said that Kaveri was going to have 50% increase in performance to the i5 4670k in terms of "gaming"
That's really unspecific, if they mean Integrated graphics stock vs stock, could be saying something. I don't really know the relative strengh of hd4600 because it's not suitable for much more than sc2 on low or LoL @1920x1080; will be following Kaveri more. 720mhz is a low clockspeed for gcn
Hard to judge Kaveri, with release a month out we'll be getting benches soon, really need to see steamroller module performance and also OCability - if you can put a 40% overclock on the gpu (720mhz to 1k) with a 35 euro heatsink for example, it completely changes the game. We need more info to say much, but AMD's made it pretty obvious that they are going for value offering without discrete gpu (or maybe with hybrid crossfire if it works well with gcn1.1 and/or mantle)
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Eh, all right that all makes sense.
Also when is Mantle coming out? :D ?
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United Kingdom20326 Posts
It was going to be this month AFAIK but delays - TBH i'm not really waiting for bf4 numbers (which will probably come first) because bf4 has numerous issues with cpu and microstuttering
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With respect to Intel CPUs being more power efficient than AMD CPUs... no shit. Intel has a large architectural advantage and a large manufacturing process advantage (their fairly mature 22 nm tri-gate vs. AMD using Global Foundries 32 nm SOI).
I thought it was either revealed or leaked for a while that the top Kaveri part would have 512 GCN (1.1) cores. That's just like desktop HD 7750, except desktop HD 7750 runs at a higher clock speed and can use GDDR5 memory, whereas the GPU portion of Kaveri needs to share slower system DDR3 memory.
hUMA can help, and so can Mantle, but for legacy code, you can roughly kind of estimate...
probably should look somewhat close to HD 7730M (512 GCN cores, 675 MHz ish clock speed, but it gets its own DDR3 memory) based on clocks and config:
http://www.notebookcheck.net/AMD-Radeon-HD-7730M.72678.0.html
HD 4600 for reference:
http://www.notebookcheck.net/Intel-HD-Graphics-4600.86106.0.html
Okay, they say 40% more in 3DMark Firestrike. HD 7730M result on that based on some submitted result using 630 MHz clock speed: 1300. HD 4600 result using i5-4670k pulled from nets: 861. I guess that's around 50% better. So yeah, that seems about right.
And also pretty much nothing new. Also, for what it's worth, Intel's top-end integrated Iris Pro HD 5200 gets 1536 in Fire Strike (pulled from notebookcheck; also, to be fair, HD 5200 doesn't exist on socketed desktop CPUs so HD 4600 is the relevant comparison for people dumb enough to game on integrated graphics on desktop systems). The HD 4600 in the i5-4670k has half the execution resources of that and no bundled embedded DRAM cache for it. As for real applications... anyway, look for yourself.
for the record, numbers pulled from notebookcheck with the understanding of relative lack of repeatability in lots of things posted there, just as rough estimates
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Those aren't analog outputs...? Reference design R9 290X / 290 is two dual-link DVI-D (digital only), DisplayPort, and HDMI. That's what that Gigabyte card pictured has.
So Core 2 Duo laptop? When's the last time you cleaned it?
It's probably dust, yeah.
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i'd agree that it's dusty but it's only been heating like this only since this afternoon. this morning it was fine (didn't see temperatures though), or least the fans weren't turning as fast. then all of a sudden randomly the computer froze so i rebooted and after that temps didn't go below 50°C which is a lot for just web browsing.
then again fan speed doesn't indicate temperature. i'll open it up this weekend.
also you sure that's really digital only? looks suspiciously like DVI-I dual link, also specifications say analog max resolution 2048 x 1536
http://www.gigabyte.com/fileupload/product/3/4884/9411_big.jpg
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/fb/DVI_Connector_Types.svg
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EPT![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/BgNojfg.jpg)
