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Boblhead
United States2577 Posts
On September 03 2011 15:59 Bloody wrote: I think I'm the only one who prefer rubber dome over mechanical. 90% of the korean bw and sc2 progamers use qsenn dt-35's....And far more people don't care about keyboards at all, I would say like 5% of TL probably cares weather or not their keyboard is mechanical. | ||
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FragKrag
United States11552 Posts
Sure you get tactile feel with some keyboards, but honestly, it doesn't add anything; it's just different. And to invest $100 into something that doesn't have much of a real advantage over it's $20 counterpart in casual use... why? | ||
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Ruyguy
Canada988 Posts
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ETisME
12493 Posts
On September 03 2011 16:07 FragKrag wrote: I was a pretty big advocate for mechanical keyboards early on, but now after a while of using them, and getting used to them, they don't really offer much for RTS gamers (don't really know other genres so can't speak for them). Where mechanical keyboards shine is typing, and not just casual typing. Sure you get tactile feel with some keyboards, but honestly, it doesn't add anything; it's just different. And to invest $100 into something that doesn't have much of a real advantage over it's $20 counterpart in casual use... why? It really differs for different people. I am quite certain that more cannot go back to rubber dome after using mechanical keyboards through. it really is to add to the overall computer usage satisfaction. A bit like a good speaker system and a laser mouse. | ||
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Blaec
Australia4289 Posts
On September 03 2011 13:51 ABagOfFritos wrote: Is there a list anywhere with the dimensions of popular mechanical keyboard keycaps to use as a comparison for the wasd customizable keycaps? I use a Das Ultimate and just can't find anything that has the key dimensions for me to check whether the custom keycaps would fit properly. WASD will fit on das On September 03 2011 03:22 Shadrak wrote: I'm hearing mixed messages about how blues are for gaming. I know some have said that for FPSs the blues are definitely not good, but I've heard conflicting things about strategy games. Since I pretty much exclusively play SC2 at the moment I'm curious if anyone has an opinion on blues for SC2. Also, anyone tried this keyboard specifically? Its got nothing but good reviews from newegg. I'm currently using a non-mechanical keyboard, so I'm thinking that maybe any color switch would be an improvement? TBH I'd never even heard of mechanical keyboards before this thread so I'm a bit lost  Ideally try some switches out. I love my blues for SC2, but its a personal preference thing. On September 03 2011 16:07 FragKrag wrote: I was a pretty big advocate for mechanical keyboards early on, but now after a while of using them, and getting used to them, they don't really offer much for RTS gamers (don't really know other genres so can't speak for them). Where mechanical keyboards shine is typing, and not just casual typing. Sure you get tactile feel with some keyboards, but honestly, it doesn't add anything; it's just different. And to invest $100 into something that doesn't have much of a real advantage over it's $20 counterpart in casual use... why? They are definitely very expensive. But I do a fair amount of typing as well as gaming and the mechanical makes both of them way, way better. It comes down to whether you think its worth the investment. | ||
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scph
Korea (South)262 Posts
On September 03 2011 16:01 Boblhead wrote: 90% of the korean bw and sc2 progamers use qsenn dt-35's....And far more people don't care about keyboards at all, I would say like 5% of TL probably cares weather or not their keyboard is mechanical. 90%? SC2? Says who? Who doesn't care about keyboards? "Far more people" as in people who don't matter? Yeah, I'll give you that. DT-35 is popular in BW and even more so back in its prime days. Look anywhere now and you'll see plenty of progamers sporting the mechanical keyboard bandwagon. Edit: I have a DT-35 and a Leopold tenkeyless. If you ask me, I'd choose the Leopold any day, DT-35 for backup. Don't care much about whether my keyboard is "mechanical" or not. It just feels better, that's all that fucking matters. If the DT-35 keys felt as good as my Leopold keys, then why I wouldn't need to spend a hundred+ dollars on a mechanical keyboard, amiright?? | ||
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MechaMan
United States1 Post
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Chuiu
3470 Posts
On September 03 2011 16:07 FragKrag wrote: I was a pretty big advocate for mechanical keyboards early on, but now after a while of using them, and getting used to them, they don't really offer much for RTS gamers (don't really know other genres so can't speak for them). Where mechanical keyboards shine is typing, and not just casual typing. Sure you get tactile feel with some keyboards, but honestly, it doesn't add anything; it's just different. And to invest $100 into something that doesn't have much of a real advantage over it's $20 counterpart in casual use... why? Its preference mostly. Getting a bigger screen, better graphics card, $100 mouse and $100 keyboard isn't going to make you a better gamer. Nothing you buy will make you a better gamer. But playing with something you feel more comfortable with can help a tiny bit. When it comes to mechanical keyboards you have the black or red switches will make rapid key presses marginally faster, but its not enough to say "oh I lost the game because he had a better keyboard". Brown and Clear are closer to rubber domes in that you are more likely to bottom them out but are good for tactile feel, which I missed from using really old IBM keyboards since I've been using rubber domes. I decided to get a brown because it was cheaper and smaller than the Deck clear keyboard. If I feel like I want the clear after using the brown I might just buy the actual cherry clear switches themselves and modify the keyboard. Though I need to get a new black switch keyboard because the right arrow key on my black one is fubar, not that I use the right arrow key that often anyway but meh. | ||
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Nazeron
Canada1046 Posts
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slytown
Korea (South)1411 Posts
On September 04 2011 02:56 Nazeron wrote: bought a das keyboard silent because of Destiny, love it, wont ever by a non-mechanical keyboard ever again, so nice to type on and play on, its hard to describe by its got a really nice feel and you can tell very easily when you hit your keys that they are registered Destiny has the Ultimate, not the silent. Yours I believe has Brown switches. Destiny uses Blues. | ||
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DPK
Canada487 Posts
On September 04 2011 05:43 slytown wrote: Destiny has the Ultimate, not the silent. Yours I believe has Brown switches. Destiny uses Blues. He said that he bought a das keyboard because of Destiny... Not that he bought the same keyboard as Destiny. And btw, the Ultimate version is both in Blue and Brown. | ||
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isleyofthenorth
Austria894 Posts
btw you can clearly hear that he has blue switches on his stream. And blues are great for sc2(just as browns). i dont know why the doubletap issue myths still exist | ||
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ETisME
12493 Posts
![[image loading]](http://a3.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc7/311504_224420300941273_124921990891105_589681_277200_n.jpg) my god..it's beautiful | ||
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Boblhead
United States2577 Posts
On September 04 2011 18:23 ETisME wrote: my god..it's beautiful what ducky model is that? | ||
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ETisME
12493 Posts
I think it is ducky 9008 shine and then he customised the led colour. All I can certain is the keycaps were made by him http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=224420110941292&set=a.224419914274645.53075.124921990891105&type=1&permPage=1 | ||
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Amui
Canada10567 Posts
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/u4jZs.jpg) My WASD keyboard. Ordered a semi-custom with white caps +blues and traded wth my bro's das. If you have a friend in the US you could probably average 120 each+tax/shipping and get your own checkerboard keyboard. From Canada though the WASD was rather pricey because of customs/shipping T.T | ||
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iPlaY.NettleS
Australia4349 Posts
On September 03 2011 16:07 FragKrag wrote: I was a pretty big advocate for mechanical keyboards early on, but now after a while of using them, and getting used to them, they don't really offer much for RTS gamers (don't really know other genres so can't speak for them). Where mechanical keyboards shine is typing, and not just casual typing. Sure you get tactile feel with some keyboards, but honestly, it doesn't add anything; it's just different. And to invest $100 into something that doesn't have much of a real advantage over it's $20 counterpart in casual use... why? so you went back to using domes after using mechanicals for a while? i think thats pretty rare | ||
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NewbieOne
Poland560 Posts
On August 29 2011 05:35 davidk wrote: I'd like to see a list with 'good value for their money keyboards'. There are a lot for sale. I really don't know what to choose. From experience, you get the best value for your money when you find a good bargain. For example, I once bought a new-in-box ("NIB" for nerds) black cherries keyboard with a touchpad on it for like $30. However, scouting the used or low class keyboard markets, while it could be a great adventure, is going to cost you a heckload of time and probably money since it's not like the first cheap keyboard you buy will be the best for you or make you so satisfied you won't think about changing. So just going to the shop and bringing a BlackWidow or a 6Gv2 home can be the best money saving effort because you won't be wasting time looking, risking, won't be paying or waiting for shipment etc., or you can pick a really good keyboard (like the Filco or Leopold or Ducky), pay for it tomorrow, lick your financial wounds and enjoy the keyboard right away as opposed to going through months of searching. Also, a good value for money is getting an old IBM Model M. Those things rarely die and can typically survive a murder attempt. Mine will become an adult this year but there are older units that still work (it's certainly possible for a younger person to own a keyboard older than he is, and still working like charm) and are even better. They aren't ideal for RTS perhaps, but it's been done. They're extremely good for typing, though. Model F's (AT keyboards) are even better but more complicated. Also, Unicomp is a company that owns the same factory that made old Model Ms and still makes them the same way as they used to be, except now it's USB and everything: http://pckeyboards.stores.yahoo.net/. From what I've heard it's possible to agree on some customisations to suit you. And black casing is available, although in this case the keys are one-piece, whereas the classical cream colour comes with two-pieced keys, making switching to Dvorak or something extremely easy (or actually removing the letter caps and typing on just the key stubs as I did for a while). Finally, if you can find a place where you can return your keyboard if you don't like it (and try another switch, for example), that could be a good idea. Speaking of blank keycaps ("Otaku"), more than one manufacturer offers them. Filco does, as does Realforce/Topre and, obviously, Das (the "Ultimate" version). Some people just sandblast their keys or you can spray over. On August 31 2011 20:26 iREight wrote: Just received a full sized (non tenkeyless) Leopold with Cherry MX Browns. It was $40 cheaper than any daskeyboard, Filco (fullsized or tenkeyless) or Ducky I could find. I love the feel of the keys and the detachable cable is very nice. One thing i do have a gripe against is one stand is shorter than the other -_- meaning that if i use the numpad whilst using the two keyboard raiser thingies, it wobbles a bit. Also some keys have a very slight 'ring' whilst others do not. Filco and Leopold were designed by the same designer, who believes Leopold is the better design (and it certainly is a newer design from the same person). One more thing, many people say the tenkeyless is better for gaming than full size, since both your hands are closer together, and while I believe this is true to a certain extent, not having a numpad only saves around 10cm of room and it isn't really uncomfortable to use a full size keyboard and mouse together I have a tenkeyless Filco and it helps me a lot, especially with my somewhat cramped desk. My mouse is no longer so much off-centre, while I can now very comfortably switch to typing whenever I want to. I miss the numpad enter and maths operators (takes a while getting used) but I wouldn't go back. Also, a wrist rest is more manageable this way. (Not wanting to steal Blisse's agenda, sorry if I overlap a little.) On August 31 2011 21:34 zeeQue wrote: Seeing as it's changed threads I'll ask again here =) Anyone on here had experience with "Alp" switches, I believe the most common are white and black, I've found a keyboard with blue alps on at around £40 on Ebay, but before I go into buying one wanna see what people say, the research I've done so far say they are a very good switch type and the videos I've seen they have a nice sound to them with the tactile feedback I bought ten Dell AT101W keyboards (with small variations between them) one day, having the black Alps switch, and I can say that while they're not ideal or hugely comfortable, it's probably the fastest typing switch I've used barring maybe Cherry browns (because I had no time to get used to browns and they felt really awkward at first). Their biggest advantage is being as cheap as the cheapest new rubber domes but the switch isn't as durable (so old, used units may have quirks like different key response across the board, some keys not working at all until you clean them etc.) or comfortable as many other mech keyboards. But if you find one for like $10 (as I did), then you surely aren't wasting money as long as every key you need works properly (which is not guaranteed). On September 01 2011 13:32 Brett wrote: I've got a question regarding the size of mechanical keyboards. I've got a second gen G15 at the moment which is starting to get on in its years and I'm considering a mechanical keyboard to replace it. I tried a razer blackwidow ultimate at my friend's place and loved the feel of the keys, however, I noticed immediately that the size of the keys/the board was different to my G15 and I wasnt able to type effectively at all. Can anyone point out mechanical keyboards that have key spacing/size the same as or very comparable to my G15? Again, as Blisse said, you're going to need getting used to the new shape. It takes a while but muscle memory will adjust (I have a ton of keyboards in my house and switch from time to time). With some keyboards the awkwardness may take longer to wear off (typical problem spots include longer space bars in older units, different placement of CTRL or ALT, especially on Cherry units that include a touchpad or trackball right on your keyboard, etc.; basing on your previous experience the switch may be too hard or too light) but I believe you'll be fine after a month or two with very little exception. Also, I am a fan of the solid hand/wrist rest on my G15, are there any stores that stock similar? Steelseries 7G comes with a wrist rest, as do certain other keyboards. However, you can buy a separate wrist rest in most shops, especially if they're geared towards office hardware. I have two such wrist rests here, one for the keyboard, one for the mouse, but end up ditching them frequently in favour of faster typing or mousing. (Anybody switching from flat keyboards, like 0.9 cm keyboards, may need a wrist rest.) I knew an attorney who simply used a gigantic plush cylinder on her desk (I can almost swear it was a yard long or so). On September 01 2011 14:09 ETisME wrote: And actually, many prefer typeing on Blacks as well. It's all a matter of preference. Cool it brohan.  I found blacks good for typing (but definitely needing adjustment if missing keys is to priority, such when you work as a coder or translator or some professional writer that can't afford e.g. a missing comma in his text) but not so good for RTS according to my own feel. I can live without tactile feedback when typing (and possibly be faster or feel like I am) but I need it when I need I go for a single key at a time, such as B, then S.  Most people would choose others over black for typing, it does cause the most fatigue for typing afterall. Yeah, they are taxing, although learning to tap more lightly solves much of the problem, which I seemed to be able to do. On the other hand, I feel like I can't tap as lightly on the tactile blues (there's that tactile point there as opposed to my just moving on to the next key... and I still am not typing as lightly as the build of the switch allows, after more than half a year of use). Might be even easier with reds. Speaking of which, good luck with your search! If you ever come across reds selling from Europe, I'd love to know, lol. In order of fatigue, of all switches I've used I'd say black cherries are the most tiring when you type, followed by IBM Model M ("buckling spring" switch), followed by black alps, followed by blue Cherries, followed by brown Cherries. Once you've got used to black Cherries (and their linearity), this may change. (When the switch is too light, the user's fingers may still tire more than with a harder switch for a couple of reasons, including overpressing or having to slow down and limit the speed etc.) On September 03 2011 03:22 Shadrak wrote: I'm hearing mixed messages about how blues are for gaming. I know some have said that for FPSs the blues are definitely not good, but I've heard conflicting things about strategy games. Since I pretty much exclusively play SC2 at the moment I'm curious if anyone has an opinion on blues for SC2. Also, anyone tried this keyboard specifically? Its got nothing but good reviews from newegg. I'm currently using a non-mechanical keyboard, so I'm thinking that maybe any color switch would be an improvement? TBH I'd never even heard of mechanical keyboards before this thread so I'm a bit lost I definitely don't think a mech keyboard is a must have for gaming but I'd note two things: 1. Yes, I believe blues are better than blacks for gaming and browns may be better still. I used blues and have used both browns and blacks (and some others). 2. As long as you type a lot for school or work, that's where a mech keyboard will shine. Typing on blues is a lovely experience, as is the ultimate nerd satisfaction of typing on a Model M (in reality, Model F has more nerd value and there are also nerds putting keyboard controllers in IBM Selectric typing machines). I indeed can't stand rubber domes after my Filco. 3. Since it's supposed to be about comfort, if a rubber dome keyboard, especially a flat scissors-board (where the key cap doesn't rest directly on the rubber bolt but there are x-shaped plastic "scissors" in between them) is comfortable to you, then good for you, really. I certainly prefer my Hama 570 scissors board to the Dell AT101W mech keyboard in terms of switch feel and typing comfort. And my typing speed record (somewhere around 101 or 102 wpm, not really top league but the typical speed people have is 30-40) was made on a cheap old $3 IBM rubber dome that was bought used and I had had no time to get used to the feel of it. My best buddy also loved that same old rubber dome keyboard and also preferred it to the Dells. Nobody in my family wanted the Dells either. *** Somebody mentioned spacebars. The problem with that is that Cherry browns tend to come with an extremely heavy grey (I think) switch under the spacebar, heavier than blacks are (by contrast, blues come with a nice green switch there and blacks actually come with a lighter switch under the spacebar than under alpha keys). I really hated that heavy spacebar, which was so disconcerting from the point of view of the light and fast tapping on the brown alpha section. People sometimes transplant keys for this reason (unsolder e.g. the Pause key switch and put it in the spacebar) but I couldn't do that. I actually killed the switch in the dissection process. Model M's have nasty heavy spacebars too. IMHO all those heavier-than-the-rest-of-the-keys spacebars detract a big deal from typing experience and I wish they'd just disappear. | ||
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Khenra
Netherlands885 Posts
Neccesary: - Cherry MX Red switch - Tenkeyless or other compact model Preferred: - No backlight - USA layout (small enter key) Filco has a keyboard like this, but it's a limited edition and I can't find a shop that sells it. I live in Europe, by the way. Your suggestions are very welcome! | ||
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Boblhead
United States2577 Posts
On September 05 2011 05:43 Khenra wrote: Hi everyone! I'm looking to buy a new mechanical keyboard. I can't find one with the specifications I'm looking for, so I'm posting here and hope you guys can suggest a model for me! Neccesary: - Cherry MX Red switch - Tenkeyless or other compact model Preferred: - No backlight - USA layout (small enter key) Filco has a keyboard like this, but it's a limited edition and I can't find a shop that sells it. I live in Europe, by the way. Your suggestions are very welcome! Theres like 5 brands to choose from, theres Noppoo choc mini, PLU-87, KBC, and of course the Filco, I do believe leopold has a tenkeyless cherry red switch as well. I'm sure I'm forgetting some. I've bought a PLU G3000 mx red board from him, fast shipping. He does have a filco tenkeyless with cherry reds for $250 usd if your willing to spend it. http://www.ebay.com/sch/qtan5370/m.html?_nkw=&_armrs=1&_from=&_ipg=&_trksid=p3686 | ||
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