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cannedrice
United States126 Posts
A4-3000 + Radeon 6480G Trying to build a budget PC bang for practicing SC2, like an OGS house type ordeal. Seems it's well known that SC2 is CPU intensive, but graphics takes a hit too when you go Intel. I'm trying to build a bunch of computers that'll run the game at 1366x768 or 1280x720 on low/low only. The AMD options looks more promising than the i3 series. The budget per computer is around 300 bucks. Don't really need big hard drives or CD drives. It just needs to run SC2. | ||
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Loser777
1931 Posts
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Madoga
Netherlands471 Posts
Anyway, check here for videocard performance: http://www.notebookcheck.net/Computer-Games-on-Laptop-Graphic-Cards.13849.0.html | ||
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Sermokala
United States14113 Posts
Intel doesn't do graphics nividia is the company your getting mad at. I was having that rage too when I was playing extreme graphics and getting lag and delay at the worst times. I recently came into some money and purchased a pair of nividia cards and slied them together and I literally havn't seen anything ever have any problems even with crysis 2. if your trying to train though lulzily your gona want to have low graphics anyway to help you with micro and you really don't need that much in there. Intels supports esports so you should probably go with them expecialy with their better gaming cards. | ||
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mav451
United States1596 Posts
You can see a direct comparison of them from the SB article here: + Show Spoiler + ![[image loading]](http://images.anandtech.com/graphs/graph4083/34877.png) and compared to the Llano A8's 6550D IGP here: + Show Spoiler + ![[image loading]](http://images.anandtech.com/graphs/graph4448/38870.png) Another thing to note is the reviews are concentrating on the highest performing Llano's...which again, are a bit misplaced on the desktop. The A4 and A6, which vary from dual/tri/quad-cores, also differ with cache (specifically the A4's with only 1MB vs. the 3MB and 4MB models found in the A6 and A8's). The IGPs, on the lower A4 and A6 models, are similarly castrated...so be wary that performance may be significantly different than the 6550D found in the top-line A8's. + Show Spoiler [A4,A6,A8 models] + The bigger issue to me, IMO, is that Llano's scales very well with performance RAM as the IGP is severely memory starved. You can see what happens with the RAM speed is increased from stock 1333Mhz to 1866Mhz. + Show Spoiler + ![[image loading]](http://images.anandtech.com/graphs/graph4448/38843.png) Bottom line is that with low quality settings across the board, this reduces the Llano's IGP advantage; AMD's biggest advantage. But we need to look at cost in its totality here. Pair the SB with any non-IGP GPU and you have an infinitely longer-lasting solution. | ||
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Madoga
Netherlands471 Posts
On June 29 2011 09:38 mav451 wrote: Llano's are more designed for HTPC's or laptops. On the desktop, it's somewhat of an afterthought since the performance is basically equal to the Athlon II X4. Also, the i3 SB's only come with the HD 2000 IGP, not the 3000 IGP. The HD 2000 IGP's are significantly weaker b/c they only have half the EU's of the HD 3000 (6 vs. 12). You can see a direct comparison of them from the SB article here: + Show Spoiler + and compared to the Llano A8's 6550D IGP here: + Show Spoiler + Another thing to note is the reviews are concentrating on the highest performing Llano's...which again, are a bit misplaced on the desktop. The A4 and A6, which vary from dual/tri/quad-cores, also differ with cache (specifically the A4's with only 1MB vs. the 3MB and 4MB models found in the A6 and A8's). The IGPs, on the lower A4 and A6 models, are similarly castrated...so be wary that performance may be significantly different than the 6550D found in the top-line A8's. + Show Spoiler [A4,A6,A8 models] + The bigger issue to me, IMO, is that Llano's scales very well with performance RAM as the IGP is severely memory starved. You can see what happens with the RAM speed is increased from stock 1333Mhz to 1866Mhz. + Show Spoiler + Bottom line is that with low quality settings across the board, this reduces the Llano's IGP advantage; AMD's biggest advantage. But we need to look at cost in its totality here. Pair the SB with any non-IGP GPU and you have an infinitely longer-lasting solution. The sb i3's do come with a HD 3000. Its still for laptops, so I'm still somewhat confused. | ||
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jacosajh
2919 Posts
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mav451
United States1596 Posts
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AMD_Fusion#Sabine Yup more on Madoga's point here, from this AT article: http://www.anandtech.com/show/3876/intels-core-2011-mobile-roadmap-revealed-sandy-bridge-part-ii The major difference between mobile Sandy Bridge and its desktop countpart is all mobile SB launch SKUs have two graphics cores (12 EUs), while only some desktop parts have 12 EUs (it looks like the high-end K SKUs will have it). The base GPU clock is lower but it can turbo up to 1.3GHz, higher than most desktop Sandy Bridge CPUs. Note that the GPU we tested in Friday's preview had 6 EUs, so mobile Sandy Bridge should be noticeably quicker as long as we don't run into memory bandwidth issues. Update: Our preview article may have actually used a 12 EU part, we're still trying to confirm! | ||
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Madoga
Netherlands471 Posts
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T.O.P.
Hong Kong4685 Posts
Take a look at this article. The APUs are really affordable. | ||
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T0fuuu
Australia2275 Posts
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Madoga
Netherlands471 Posts
The 210 should be 35 dollar ish and the 220/6450 45 ish. The 6450 and 220 run on low settings at 100fps+, not sure about the 210 but my friend is using it and he sais it works fine. I'm pretty sure that if you keep to cheap components you can keep it below 300 dollar. | ||
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cannedrice
United States126 Posts
On June 29 2011 09:58 jacosajh wrote: Is the budget $300 for the PC only? Or including screen, keyboard, mouse? No, just the tower itself. I was originally thinking of doing Athlon II X3 boxes paired with Radeon 5450s. Not sure if waiting for the A6 makes sense. | ||
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cannedrice
United States126 Posts
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Womwomwom
5930 Posts
On June 29 2011 10:10 T.O.P. wrote: http://www.fudzilla.com/processors/item/23237-amds-llano-a8-3850-to-cost-us-$135 Take a look at this article. The APUs are really affordable. The APU itself is cheap. The motherboard doesn't seem to have the same luxury - the cheapest seems to be hovering around the $100 region. I'm not sure but I don't believe AMD's turbo core, which is basically Intel's turbo boost, works on the desktop processors, so its basically an Athlon II with a huge IGP component. I think Ananadtech mentioned it in their review but don't count me on it. On June 29 2011 13:49 cannedrice wrote: No, just the tower itself. I was originally thinking of doing Athlon II X3 boxes paired with Radeon 5450s. Not sure if waiting for the A6 makes sense. Athlon II X3s + HD5450s will still be quite a bit cheaper than Llano, if only because of the cheapass AM2+ and AM3 motherboards in the market. Max power draw of this system should be around ~150W at max load...so the recommended power supply is around 300W with something like 30 Amps on the 12+ rails (this information should be on a huge sticker on the side of your PSU). Keep in mind you probably need to buy RAM so there are a lot of other costs involved. | ||
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jacosajh
2919 Posts
On June 29 2011 13:49 cannedrice wrote: No, just the tower itself. I was originally thinking of doing Athlon II X3 boxes paired with Radeon 5450s. Not sure if waiting for the A6 makes sense. Right, or even Athlon II X2 245 + 5450. I think it comes to just about $230 w/ AM3 board, 4GB DDR3 RAM, 300W PSU, and 160GB 7200 RPM HDD, and basic Case. Leaves a little bit more budget breathing room. SC2 doesn't use more than 2 Cores, so if this is strictly SC2, I don't see why you need X3s? | ||
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a176
Canada6688 Posts
On June 29 2011 14:11 Womwomwom wrote: I'm not sure but I don't believe AMD's turbo core, which is basically Intel's turbo boost, works on the desktop processors, so its basically an Athlon II with a huge IGP component. I think Ananadtech mentioned it in their review but don't count me on it. they are clocked lower than the phenoms, probably due to thermal concerns, so its basically around athlon territory. | ||
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FragKrag
United States11563 Posts
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sinani206
United States1959 Posts
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Myrmidon
United States9452 Posts
On June 29 2011 14:11 Womwomwom wrote: Athlon II X3s + HD5450s will still be quite a bit cheaper than Llano, if only because of the cheapass AM2+ and AM3 motherboards in the market. Max power draw of this system should be around ~150W at max load...so the recommended power supply is around 300W with something like 30 Amps on the 12+ rails (this information should be on a huge sticker on the side of your PSU). Sounds like a pretty hardcore 300W PSU to have 30A on +12V?  | ||
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skyR
Canada13817 Posts
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Womwomwom
5930 Posts
The cheapest A75 motherboard on release is probably going to be some Asrock one and that's sitting close, if not at, $100 USD. I *think* it might be because they're all using the Hudson-D3 chipset which is better featured than Cougar Point IMHO, and the motherboards tend to show that with a gazillion USB3 ports, every video and audio connector you can think of, SATA3 everywhere, etc. The Gigabyte boards especially have more ports than many of the X58 motherboards I can think of. I guess you'll have to wait if you want cheaper cut down variants. On June 29 2011 15:47 sinani206 wrote: If you can find an i3-2105, those come with HD 3000s. Its still going to be worse, the HD3000 may be double than what the HD2000 but its still fairly inadequate for gaming. | ||
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cannedrice
United States126 Posts
I think the mobos are expensive because all of them have 2 PCIe from the get-go? | ||
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SirazTV
United States209 Posts
Also, as a side note the I did just get a llano A6-3400m laptop and have been impressed with the sc2 performance. It plays 1v1 on medium @ native resolution 1366x768 wihtout lag. Even when @ 200/200 with muta ling my fps only drops to around 30-35. | ||
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JingleHell
United States11308 Posts
On August 21 2011 05:12 SirazTV wrote: The new AMD llano architecture only really makes sense for portable computers. For a PC bang just buy a bunch of athlon II x3 or the new sandy bridge duo cores(the cheaper ones then the i3 cant remember the name) and 460s. The performance will be soooooooo much better and not cost that much more then a llano system. Also, as a side note the I did just get a llano A6-3400m laptop and have been impressed with the sc2 performance. It plays 1v1 on medium @ native resolution 1366x768 wihtout lag. Even when @ 200/200 with muta ling my fps only drops to around 30-35. Pentium G840. But without a discrete GPU adding to the price, you won't beat llano by much. Even so, a GTS 450 can be had for ~$80 on sale, making it slightly more expensive after including the overpriced llano mobo, for much better performance on the GPU side, and slightly better CPU power. | ||
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jacosajh
2919 Posts
Heck, for an ultra portable desktop, I'd still just get a Mini-ITX for about $65, a G620 for about $78 and a low-profile HD5570 or something like that for about $65. Llano is a great idea, but I think it needs to offer more power in both GPU/CPU department for it to be worth it for me (and therefore, most people, in my opinion). | ||
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Myrmidon
United States9452 Posts
Well, actually the real idea of Llano is a stepping stone towards further CPU/GPU integration so you eventually have GPU elements (well, stream processors or whatever you want to call them and whatever they end up being) speeding up all sorts of non-graphics computing...they hope. At the moment, Llano lets you have decent graphics performance in those super-small mini-ITX cases with no expansion slots. Though arguably, the HD 3000 is already there. | ||
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SirazTV
United States209 Posts
On August 21 2011 05:20 JingleHell wrote: Pentium G840. But without a discrete GPU adding to the price, you won't beat llano by much. Even so, a GTS 450 can be had for ~$80 on sale, making it slightly more expensive after including the overpriced llano mobo, for much better performance on the GPU side, and slightly better CPU power. 460s = gtx 460 768mb card can be found for ~100 or even less if on sale. | ||
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CharlieBrownsc
Canada598 Posts
On August 21 2011 05:53 jacosajh wrote: For real, I would take a G620 + H61 + GTS 450 any day over Llano. Heck, for an ultra portable desktop, I'd still just get a Mini-ITX for about $65, a G620 for about $78 and a low-profile HD5570 or something like that for about $65. Llano is a great idea, but I think it needs to offer more power in both GPU/CPU department for it to be worth it for me (and therefore, most people, in my opinion). GTS 450 is way overkill to play low settings at 1280X1024, it can handle 1920X1080 on ultra settings for sc2 A 9800 can be had for under $40 on sale. If he does decide to go with dedicated graphics that'd probably be the best bet. | ||
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jacosajh
2919 Posts
I don't think that's right. Even if it could, it probably won't be stable for more than 1v1s and/or medium-large battles. Maybe some stuff on Ultra, some stuff on High. My 5770, a bit better than the GTS 450, struggles a little bit on Ultra everything @ 1920x1080. Edit: Hrmmm... might be wrong. At second look, it looks like SC2 is one of the games the GTS 450 performs better than the HD 5770 for. Just about everything else the HD 5770 is better. Then again, the most recent benchmark comparisons I could find were back in Sept. 2010 so maybe driver updates since then changed this? | ||
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JingleHell
United States11308 Posts
On August 21 2011 08:53 jacosajh wrote: Ultra @ 1920x1080 on GTS 450? I don't think that's right. Even if it could, it probably won't be stable for more than 1v1s and/or medium-large battles. Maybe some stuff on Ultra, some stuff on High. My 5770, a bit better than the GTS 450, struggles a little bit on Ultra everything @ 1920x1080. http://www.hardwareheaven.com/reviews/1033/pg10/palit-geforce-gts-450-sonic-platinum-sli-review-starcraft-2.html | ||
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jacosajh
2919 Posts
http://techgage.com/article/nvidia_geforce_gts_450_-_the_super-affordable_fermi/7 I wonder if this is still true. | ||
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JingleHell
United States11308 Posts
7 per side panel, + all the screws holding in the dual slot cards. | ||
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