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On January 05 2012 01:00 Belial88 wrote:+ Show Spoiler ++ Show Spoiler +Can someone explain to me exactly what the voltages section means on HWMonitor. Everywhere I read they say "you cant see voltages through software, must use specialized multimeter" so I never realized that you could actually get a (unreliable/inaccurate) reading on your voltages.
So I think I get some of it, and I think the idea you have to be -.25 to +.25 v in range of the 3.3/5/12 but I don't understand what -12 is, what VIN1 is, what +5VCCH or VBAT is. Anyways this is what my HW Monitor says:
Voltage/Current/Min/Max (- means same V as previous)
VIN1 1.14/-/-
+3.3V 3.3/3.28/3.3
+5V 4.89/4.89/4.92
+12V 12.03/11.97/12.03
-12V -6.46/*/*
-5V -4.8/*/*
+5 VCCH 4.81/*/*
VBAT 3.33/*/*
I was just wondering, as I was thinking about replacing some PC parts and my PSU is somewhere on the limit. I mean with my current setup, it's perfectly safe, and I'm sure I'd be fine if I up'd my GPU/CPU, but know I don't have the headroom for SLI (no that I'd want to).
Antec Earthwatts 430, althon ii unlock/oc 3.415 from 3.2 stock, 1.472 voltage from 1.4, gtx 460 768mb, 6 fans + lcd controller. You want to be within 5%.
VCCH provides power to the motherboard. VBAT is for CMOS. -12v and -5v are useless. "Specialized multimeter" is quite the oxymoron there, particularly if you're talking about the cheesy Chinese low-grade crap (which are still pretty useful). No way you're stressing the Earthwatts to its limit with those kinds of parts though. It's not like you're even going to top 400W if you upped the overclocks a lot more and ran prime95 + FurMark, which is kind of a dumb scenario anyway. Thanks for the responses, but I've had this Earthwatts for a year (remember, you helped pick it out for me). But what about 'electrolytic capacitor aging' for having this PSU for a year now. Doesn't that sort of lower the power load? Unless I need to replace it, I plan to use this PSU for... well, the rest of my life really, and if I upgrade my GPU or CPU/Mobo, I wouldn't want trouble. Like, is a year of standard gaming use going to seriously drain the PSU?
Earthwatts Green is a quality unit so capacitor aging isn't going to be an issue (especially not after one year) unless you are pushing the unit to its limit.
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More like Nerf i7 running at 5.6ghz with a 7970 running at 1.7 ghz while it has a supply of fresh liquid nitrogen constantly being dumped on it.
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On January 04 2012 14:41 Womwomwom wrote:
Asus' RMA quality is not great and Gigabyte is woeful. So birds of a feather do shitty warranty together I guess. Asus and MSI at least have nice motherboards.
On January 04 2012 15:06 skyR wrote:
Never had an issue with ASUS and MSI and I'll always pay a premium for their products over anyone else's to not have to deal with shipping across the country and over the border.
I haven't done my research too much here, so I'm going to ask you guys to see if you can save me some time... do you really consider MSI to have to have quality mobo's? From what I've seen, ASRock's boards are just as good or better and really MSI has had an innumerable amount of their AM3 (and even AM3+) boards die because they had crappy VRM's and no over-current protection and stuff blew up (obviously this also has to do with people trying to overclock 125W CPU's on 3+1 (or 4+1) phase boards - some of them without mosfet heatsinks - but still...). Even if they used the same crap on the LGA1155 boards, those kinds of issues might not show up simply because the current passing through would be, like, half... and also I've noticed people are braver with the voltages on Phenom II's and Bulldozers (going to 1.4 - 1.5V regularly)
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On January 05 2012 01:34 Medrea wrote:More like Nerf i7 running at 5.6ghz with a 7970 running at 1.7 ghz while it has a supply of fresh liquid nitrogen constantly being dumped on it.
Of course, but the card being able to clock that high is what's good! =)
They even overclocked the core to 1.26Ghz stable on stock cooling and it maxed at 66c degrees...
(Btw 2.5Ghz memory is imba)
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On January 04 2012 23:15 skyR wrote:Show nested quote +On January 04 2012 20:01 Sandtrout wrote:+ Show Spoiler +Alright, here's the list from mindfactory.de:
ASRock H61M-HVS Intel H61 So.1155 Dual - € 42,92
Intel Core i5 2400 4x 3.10GHz So.1155 BOX - € 168,60
1024MB Sapphire Radeon HD 6870 Aktiv PCIe - € 143,85
8GB G.Skill NT Series DDR3-1333 DIMM CL9 - € 28,34
500GB Western Digital Caviar Blue - € 70,80
Samsung DVDRW SATA 22x SH-222AB bare - € 14,69
Xigmatek Asgard III Midi Tower - € 30,79
€ 499,99
I will try and use the PSU I already have at hand (Xilence XP480) and buy a better one if it doesn't really work out.
Does anyone know anything about the HDD? I couldn't find info on it.
Can I buy it this way or is there a problem with one of the components? List is fine. Caviar Blue is your typical 3.5" two year warranty SATA HDD from Western Digital.
Thanks 
Another forum told me that I shouldn't take the mainboard in the list because there would be problems with the cpu (they haven't specified which problems yet) and that I should at least buy an Asus H67 3.0. Since that would cost about 50€ more, what do you think? Is it worth it, are there really any problems with the mainboard on my list?
And regarding the PSU: If I need to buy a new one, which one would be reasonably good without being too expensive?
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On January 05 2012 01:59 Shikyo wrote:Show nested quote +On January 05 2012 01:34 Medrea wrote:More like Nerf i7 running at 5.6ghz with a 7970 running at 1.7 ghz while it has a supply of fresh liquid nitrogen constantly being dumped on it. Of course, but the card being able to clock that high is what's good! =) They even overclocked the core to 1.26Ghz stable on stock cooling and it maxed at 66c degrees... (Btw 2.5Ghz memory is imba)
I think thats kind of the logic AMD was hoping would be successful with Bulldozer. Hence the "World record."
Cards being clocked to 1.3 ghz out of the box though? That has me all hot and bothered.
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Something reasonably good fitting in with your other budget-oriented components would be Corsair CX430 V2 for € 36:
http://www.mindfactory.de/product_info.php/info/p743100_430W-Corsair-CX-Serie-V2.html
There's no problem with the H61M-HVS, but do note that you only get 4 SATA2 ports, no USB3, limited audio jacks, only 100 MHz Ethernet, no PCI slots, and so on. With the way most people use their computers, most cheap motherboards will long outlast the warranties and their next upgrade. Lots of people that bought H61M-VS in the past (from a suggestion here) have not come back and flamed us yet. 
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On January 05 2012 03:00 Medrea wrote:Show nested quote +On January 05 2012 01:59 Shikyo wrote:On January 05 2012 01:34 Medrea wrote:More like Nerf i7 running at 5.6ghz with a 7970 running at 1.7 ghz while it has a supply of fresh liquid nitrogen constantly being dumped on it. Of course, but the card being able to clock that high is what's good! =) They even overclocked the core to 1.26Ghz stable on stock cooling and it maxed at 66c degrees... (Btw 2.5Ghz memory is imba) I think thats kind of the logic AMD was hoping would be successful with Bulldozer. Hence the "World record." Cards being clocked to 1.3 ghz out of the box though? That has me all hot and bothered.
Sorry I remembered wrong but it was 1.267Ghz on stock cooling with a modified bios and voltage tweak, 68c max in furmark
![[image loading]](http://assets.vr-zone.net/14398/furmark.jpg)
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On January 05 2012 01:53 Wabbit wrote:Show nested quote +On January 04 2012 14:41 Womwomwom wrote:
Asus' RMA quality is not great and Gigabyte is woeful. So birds of a feather do shitty warranty together I guess. Asus and MSI at least have nice motherboards. Show nested quote +On January 04 2012 15:06 skyR wrote:
Never had an issue with ASUS and MSI and I'll always pay a premium for their products over anyone else's to not have to deal with shipping across the country and over the border.
I haven't done my research too much here, so I'm going to ask you guys to see if you can save me some time... do you really consider MSI to have to have quality mobo's? From what I've seen, ASRock's boards are just as good or better and really MSI has had an innumerable amount of their AM3 (and even AM3+) boards die because they had crappy VRM's and no over-current protection and stuff blew up (obviously this also has to do with people trying to overclock 125W CPU's on 3+1 (or 4+1) phase boards - some of them without mosfet heatsinks - but still...). Even if they used the same crap on the LGA1155 boards, those kinds of issues might not show up simply because the current passing through would be, like, half... and also I've noticed people are braver with the voltages on Phenom II's and Bulldozers (going to 1.4 - 1.5V regularly)
I'm not sure if what they're saying is that they have higher quality. Just by that statement from skyR alone, it looks like he's just saying their RMA process is less stressful.
I've always thought the quality of the mobos themselves (as far as works or doesn't work) are similar across the board.
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If you are an enthusiast with sponsorship money running 3+ GPU's and trying to hit 5+ghz on the processor than the differences between motherboards is very very substantial.
If your just some guy with a single card setup or two and trying to overclock a CPU to 4 or 4.4 or something then motherboards have less by ways of differentiating themselves.
Doubly so if space is not a problem.
Some ASUS motherboards used to ship with a mini SSD on the board and a quick boot OS, for browsing and the like.
Those were awesome. And worth it. What happened to those?
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On January 05 2012 01:53 Wabbit wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On January 04 2012 14:41 Womwomwom wrote:
Asus' RMA quality is not great and Gigabyte is woeful. So birds of a feather do shitty warranty together I guess. Asus and MSI at least have nice motherboards. On January 04 2012 15:06 skyR wrote:
Never had an issue with ASUS and MSI and I'll always pay a premium for their products over anyone else's to not have to deal with shipping across the country and over the border.
I haven't done my research too much here, so I'm going to ask you guys to see if you can save me some time... do you really consider MSI to have to have quality mobo's? From what I've seen, ASRock's boards are just as good or better and really MSI has had an innumerable amount of their AM3 (and even AM3+) boards die because they had crappy VRM's and no over-current protection and stuff blew up (obviously this also has to do with people trying to overclock 125W CPU's on 3+1 (or 4+1) phase boards - some of them without mosfet heatsinks - but still...). Even if they used the same crap on the LGA1155 boards, those kinds of issues might not show up simply because the current passing through would be, like, half... and also I've noticed people are braver with the voltages on Phenom II's and Bulldozers (going to 1.4 - 1.5V regularly)
MSI's older boards weren't nearly as good as what they are today. And we're talking about post-sale support, not the quality of the board's components. All the high-end boards today use solid caps, ferrite chokes, and low RDS mosfets so no doubt component quality should be similar across the manufacturers.
No doubt ASUS and MSI have nice boards since some carry a five year warranty, some have advance RMA option, and ASUS uses an Intel NIC. And prior to Asmedia, ASUS and MSI used NEC for USB3.0 while Asrock used Etron and something else. Some of their implementations such as power management are most likely significantly better than others as well.
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On January 04 2012 11:28 Shikyo wrote:
You can't mess the case and PSU up? =O Sure you can, you should list the ones you were thinking of.
For hard drive, I'd suggest the cheapest 500gb 7200RPM drive available there.
For RAM just get the cheapest 4-8gb of ram that's 1.5V and 1333Mhz.
For mobo I'd get the cheapest Asrock H61 mobo
For graphics card btw that one's terribly overpriced, 6870 should not be more than 145 euros, possibly 150. I suggest you either change the card or try another site.
The processor should not be i5 2400S, it needs to be i5 2400. 2400S is a piece of shit, that's what the S stands for.
Motherboards have integrated sound cards that are good enough for most people.
Thanks for the reply!
So I've spent a couple more hours looking for components on different sites, and I would like some advice on the following:
- Motherboard: ASRock H61M-VS - micro ATX - LGA1155 Socket - H61 - LGA1155 Socket (50 euros)
http://www.amazon.fr/dp/B004S9JXPW/ref=asc_df_B004S9JXPW5970606?smid=A1X6FK5RDHNB96&tag=googlefrshopp-21&linkCode=asn&creative=22782&creativeASIN=B004S9JXPW
- RAM: Corsair - CMZ8GX3M2A1600C9 - RAM - DDR3 1600 - 8 Go COR CL9 Vengeance Kit (41 euros)
http://www.amazon.fr/Corsair-CMZ8GX3M2A1600C9-Mémoire-DDR3-Vengeance/dp/B004CRSM4I/ref=pd_bxgy_computers_text_c
- Hard drive: Western digital - WD Caviar Blue - Internal Hard Drive 3,5" - SATA 6 Gb/s - 500 Go (77 euros)
http://www.amazon.fr/Western-digital-Caviar-Disque-interne/dp/B00461G3MS/ref=sr_1_2?s=computers&ie=UTF8&qid=1325701197&sr=1-2
- Processor: Intel Core i5 2500K / 3,3 GHz - LGA1155 Socket - L3 6 Mo - Box (187 euros) it was nearly the same price as i5-2400 ones so I think it's worth it ?
http://www.amazon.fr/Intel-Processeur-2500K-LGA1155-Socket/dp/B004FA8NX2/ref=pd_bxgy_computers_text_b
- Graphics Card: I found the same one a bit cheaper on another website (150 euros) but I wonder if I could chose another one, in order to buy everything on the same site to reduce delivery costs. So is there a good one in those ?
http://www.amazon.fr/Informatique-composant-PC-carte-graphique/b/ref=amb_link_162443387_4?ie=UTF8&node=430340031&pf_rd_m=A1X6FK5RDHNB96&pf_rd_s=left-3&pf_rd_r=1M2TVFPBAQEXG4CND7YY&pf_rd_t=101&pf_rd_p=268888607&pf_rd_i=427941031#/ref=sr_nr_p_36_3?rh=n:340858031,n:!340859031,n:427941031,n:430340031,p_36:428409031&bbn=430340031&ie=UTF8&qid=1325704018&rnid=428393031
For the case and PSU, I'm sticking with the recommandations on the awesome "Optimized Gaming Computer Builds" thread, but since apparently I can mess this up too
- Case: XIGMATEK Asgard-II (no power supply)
http://www.ldlc.com/fiche/PB00109061.html?ao=15
- PSU: Antec Neo ECO 520C
http://www.ldlc.com/fiche/PB00098991.html
And in the end, just to be complete, I'm considering this optical drive: Samsung - SH-222AB/RSMS
http://www.amazon.fr/Samsung-SH-222AB-Graveur-Retail-Ivoire/dp/B004VSG5A6/ref=sr_1_2?s=computers&ie=UTF8&qid=1325703241&sr=1-2
So that would be an approximately 600 euros computer. Please share your thoughts and tell me if I should change some components!
EDIT: Don't I need fans ?
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Since you aren't overclocking you won't have a heat problem. Since you won't have a heat problem you wont need extra fans.
Also if you can find cheaper (1333 mhz) RAM pick it up instead of the 1600 Corsairs. If not, then not.
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By high resolution you mean 1080p?
1080 is mid-level now. So a 6870 should be fine for most things.
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Yeah. If you can find a cheaper 6870 available to you somehow i would probably go with that one. Not that Sapphire is bad of course.
All graphics cards of the same model produce the same results. The only difference is looks, and how they manage heat, and warranty/customer service.
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That same ldlc website has the Bit Fenix Merc Alpha for 38 Euros. Not sure, but that might be a step up from the Asgard. (Deletion: Shikyo explains fans below.)
Edit: At the same time, a case is a case.
Edit: There's a mis-labeled 6570 on the Amazon.fr website. It's (obviously) not an actual 6870.
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That's one overpriced merc alpha, it's 37€ in finland and finland is the costiest country in europe, in germany merc alphas are 30-32 euros generally.
Merc alpha comes with just 1 fan but it's clearly superior build quality in comparison to asgard and also comes with better features, however for best build quality on a super cheap case you'd probably want a core 1000
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Okay, here are two separate lists, one for mindfactory, one for hardwareversand. There are some differences because of availabilty, it would be really cool if you could comment on them.
The different parts are: HDD (is caviar green bad?) and the case. Which one is better?
Thanks for recommending the Corsair CX430 V2, myrmidon. This will be sufficient for my pc for sure?
Maybe you want to check the links so that it is really the right version.
Thanks for all the help
mindfactory.de
+ Show Spoiler +
hardwareversand.de
+ Show Spoiler +BitFenix Merc Alpha - 31,61 € http://www4.hardwareversand.de/articledetail.jsp?aid=50575&agid=631Western Digital Caviar GreenPower 500GB SATA II, Western Digital5000AADS - 79,00 € http://www4.hardwareversand.de/articledetail.jsp?aid=30370&agid=689ASRock H61M-HVS (B3), Sockel 1155, mATX - 41,81 € http://www4.hardwareversand.de/articledetail.jsp?aid=50895&agid=1603Intel Core i5-2400 Box, LGA1155 - 168,98 € http://www4.hardwareversand.de/articledetail.jsp?aid=41226&agid=1617Sapphire HD6870 1G GDDR5 PCI-E DL-DVI-I+SL-DVI-D / HDMI / DP - 144,70 € http://www4.hardwareversand.de/articledetail.jsp?aid=46795&agid=10048GB-Kit G.Skill PC3-10667U CL9 - 29,57 € http://www4.hardwareversand.de/articledetail.jsp?aid=44315&agid=1192Corsair Builder Series CX430 V2, 430 Watt - 38,10 € http://www4.hardwareversand.de/articledetail.jsp?aid=48790&agid=1627Samsung SH-222AB bare schwarz SATA - 15,98 € http://www4.hardwareversand.de/articledetail.jsp?aid=47362&agid=699= 549,75 €
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EPT![[image loading]](http://www.freeimagehosting.net/newuploads/ffb04.jpg)
