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Computer Build Resource Thread - Page 627

Forum Index > Tech Support
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When using this resource, please read FragKrag's opening post. The Tech Support forum regulars have helped create countless of desktop systems without any compensation. The least you can do is provide all of the information required for them to help you properly.
skyR
Profile Joined July 2009
Canada13817 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-10-04 07:04:00
October 04 2011 07:03 GMT
#12521
On October 04 2011 16:00 Medrea wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 04 2011 15:57 skyR wrote:
A 6970 has power requirements similar to that of a GTX 570 so about 220-240w under load.

And no, having four 12v rails rated at 34a each does not mean you can have a 136a.


What does it mean then. How much do I have?


The total is listed on your label. Typically a 1200w unit will have around 100a and a 1000w unit will have around 82a on the 12v rail(s).
Medrea
Profile Joined May 2011
10003 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-10-04 07:10:05
October 04 2011 07:09 GMT
#12522
On October 04 2011 16:03 skyR wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 04 2011 16:00 Medrea wrote:
On October 04 2011 15:57 skyR wrote:
A 6970 has power requirements similar to that of a GTX 570 so about 220-240w under load.

And no, having four 12v rails rated at 34a each does not mean you can have a 136a.


What does it mean then. How much do I have?


The total is listed on your label. Typically a 1200w unit will have around 100a and a 1000w unit will have around 82a on the 12v rail(s).


So lets say we have a http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817371051

Which advertises 750W and 4 virtual rails with 40A on each vrail.

I can at most apply (750/12) Amps (about 62.5) across ALL rails. Or about 15.8A distributed across each rail. OR 40A on ONE rail and 22.5A on another.

Am i right?
twitch.tv/medrea
skyR
Profile Joined July 2009
Canada13817 Posts
October 04 2011 07:17 GMT
#12523
No. Power is not distributed evenly across the rails nor will you ever max out the multiple rails. Each connector is assigned to specific rails so usually the CPU /motherboard is assigned to a rail, molex and sata to another rail, and each set of PCIe gets their own rail.
Medrea
Profile Joined May 2011
10003 Posts
October 04 2011 07:21 GMT
#12524
On October 04 2011 16:17 skyR wrote:
No. Power is not distributed evenly across the rails nor will you ever max out the multiple rails. Each connector is assigned to specific rails so usually the CPU /motherboard is assigned to a rail, molex and sata to another rail, and each set of PCIe gets their own rail.


Right well what I am asking is, for 4 6970's. What minimum supply will accept that load. I'm not asking for a link. I mean what will one such power supply look like. What will it probably be labeled as? What will be labeled on its 12v rails?
twitch.tv/medrea
Legatus Lanius
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
2135 Posts
October 04 2011 07:30 GMT
#12525
i like techpowerup for power usage. they show the actual wattage from the graphics card rather than the whole system, and have a bunch of different stress factors.

http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/HIS/Radeon_HD_6970/27.html

'peak' is usually closest to what you'd experience in-game, so give or take 200w for each gpu assuming they all have equal performance?

+ all the other components
"He's the Triple H of Brood War." - Ribbon on Flash | "He's more like the John Cena of Brood War." - Aus)MaCrO on Flash
Medrea
Profile Joined May 2011
10003 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-10-04 07:34:22
October 04 2011 07:31 GMT
#12526
On October 04 2011 16:30 Legatus Lanius wrote:
i like techpowerup for power usage. they show the actual wattage from the graphics card rather than the whole system, and have a bunch of different stress factors.

http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/HIS/Radeon_HD_6970/27.html

'peak' is usually closest to what you'd experience in-game, so give or take 200w for each gpu assuming they all have equal performance?

+ all the other components


Im not interested in gaming with 6970's. They'll be running with a shit processor, on a somewhat shit motherboard, with like 1 gig of shit ram. Actually the motherboard is probably ok.

Also I am not interested in a calculator, or anything specific about the card.

Im after knowledge. So i will know for myself for all time.
twitch.tv/medrea
Legatus Lanius
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
2135 Posts
October 04 2011 07:39 GMT
#12527
well a 1000w unit should handle it, provided you dont do any anything ridiculous

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817121075

has 996 watts on the 12v rail, but youd need a molex to pcie thingy because it only has 6 pcie conenctors

[image loading] blam
"He's the Triple H of Brood War." - Ribbon on Flash | "He's more like the John Cena of Brood War." - Aus)MaCrO on Flash
Medrea
Profile Joined May 2011
10003 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-10-04 08:04:14
October 04 2011 07:49 GMT
#12528
Ok this is why i am lost. In school we were taught that amperages in parallel are calculated as

Itotal = I1 + I2 + I3

So I am guessing that amperages on virtual rails are not in parallel with eachother?
twitch.tv/medrea
Legatus Lanius
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
2135 Posts
October 04 2011 08:09 GMT
#12529
no idea cabron
"He's the Triple H of Brood War." - Ribbon on Flash | "He's more like the John Cena of Brood War." - Aus)MaCrO on Flash
Medrea
Profile Joined May 2011
10003 Posts
October 04 2011 08:18 GMT
#12530
On October 04 2011 17:09 Legatus Lanius wrote:
no idea cabron


Single rails are obvious. These multi 12v virtual rail systems kind of confuse me. My power supply has 18A across 3 vrails and is rated for an overall wattage of 504. Yet 56A times 12 is not 504, its 672. Why is it only 504?
twitch.tv/medrea
Legatus Lanius
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
2135 Posts
October 04 2011 08:25 GMT
#12531
i think its similar to the way the 12v and 3v3/5v rails interact. that kingwin psu has a wattage of 996 on the 12v rails, but can only (officially anyway) supply 1000w in total even though the 3.3 and 5.5 rails can support 120w.

best to ask someone like myrm though, he knows a fair bit about power supplies
"He's the Triple H of Brood War." - Ribbon on Flash | "He's more like the John Cena of Brood War." - Aus)MaCrO on Flash
jacosajh
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
2919 Posts
October 04 2011 08:26 GMT
#12532
Like how a PSU can have 430W total, but 120W across the 3.3V (20A) and 5V (20A) total, and 336W (28A) on the 12V.

The 3.3V and 5V don't add to 120W
And the 12V doesn't add to 430W

does it?

This is a CX430 V2 btw

There are a lot of places that explain this -_-
Medrea
Profile Joined May 2011
10003 Posts
October 04 2011 08:32 GMT
#12533
On October 04 2011 17:26 jacosajh wrote:
Like how a PSU can have 430W total, but 120W across the 3.3V (20A) and 5V (20A) total, and 336W (28A) on the 12V.

The 3.3V and 5V don't add to 120W
And the 12V doesn't add to 430W

does it?

This is a CX430 V2 btw

There are a lot of places that explain this -_-


They add to 502. Effiency then? I guess someone needs to tell me. I know plenty enough about PSU's so that I don't get ripped off, and what is and is not an appropriate wattage requirement, and not to buy sticks of dynamite, but I haven't gone deeper than that.
twitch.tv/medrea
Legatus Lanius
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
2135 Posts
October 04 2011 08:35 GMT
#12534
i think they are just designed high to run power hungry cards off the one rail. wouldnt make much sense if each rail totalled the max wattage but was too low to supply power to a gtx 480 or w/e
"He's the Triple H of Brood War." - Ribbon on Flash | "He's more like the John Cena of Brood War." - Aus)MaCrO on Flash
Medrea
Profile Joined May 2011
10003 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-10-04 08:42:25
October 04 2011 08:39 GMT
#12535
On October 04 2011 17:35 Legatus Lanius wrote:
i think they are just designed high to run power hungry cards off the one rail. wouldnt make much sense if each rail totalled the max wattage but was too low to supply power to a gtx 480 or w/e


No each rail is rated to handle a certain load of amperage, you calculate the power by multiplying amperage and volts, and thats your wattage. Its these joint rail ratings I dont understand.
twitch.tv/medrea
nam nam
Profile Joined June 2010
Sweden4672 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-10-04 08:50:56
October 04 2011 08:50 GMT
#12536
I read a review of a virtual rail psu where is said something about some overcurrent protection limiting the amperages for the virtual rails in some way. I don't know that much about psu's but maybe it's related to what you are wondering?
Medrea
Profile Joined May 2011
10003 Posts
October 04 2011 09:27 GMT
#12537
Well Skyr said something earlier.

1200w unit will have around 100a


Well obviously yes 100A times 12V equals 1200W

100a and a 1000w unit will have around 82a on the 12v rail(s).


Also intuitive, 1000W divided by 12V is 83.3A.

But thats across one rail. No virtual rail shenans
twitch.tv/medrea
jacosajh
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
2919 Posts
October 04 2011 09:31 GMT
#12538
http://www.hardwaresecrets.com/article/Everything-You-Need-to-Know-About-Power-Supplies/181/8

That specific page explains it pretty well. It's pretty old, but a lot of stuff still applies.

There's a lot of other stuff about power supplies you might want to know about as well.

An excerpt:

You may think that the maximum amount of power a power supply can deliver is simply the sum of the maximum amount of power each output can deliver. In truth, the math isn’t that simple because of the way PC power supplies work internally. The main positive outputs (+12 V, +5 V and +3.3 V) share some components, so even though each output has an individual maximum output, this maximum can only be reached when no power is being pulled from the other outputs.

The most common case is the +5 V and +3.3 V outputs. Even though they have individual maximum current and power limits, these maximum values can only be pulled when no power is being pulled from the other output. Together they have a combined maximum power, which is lower than the simple addition of the maximum capacity from +5 V and +3.3 V outputs.

For a practical example, consider the power supply in Figure 29. Its label says that the +5 V output can deliver up to 24 A, which equates to 120 W, or 5 V x 24 A. The +3.3 V output can also deliver up to 24 A, which equates to 79.2 W, or 3.3 V x 24 A. The maximum combined power printed on the label is 155 W, (less than the simple addition of the maximum power each output can deliver individually), which would be 199.2 W, or 120 W + 79.2 W.

The same idea holds true for the +12 V outputs. On the power supply from Figure 29, each +12 V rail can deliver up to 16 A (192 W, or 12 V x 16 A), but the maximum combined power for the +12 V outputs is 504 W, not 768 W (192 W x 4).

And finally, we have a combined power for the +12 V, +5 V and +3.3 V at the same time, which isn’t a simply addition of the maximum combined power for the +5 V/+3.3 V outputs with the maximum combined power for the +12 V outputs. On the power supply from our example, the maximum combined power for these outputs is 581.5 W and not 659 W (155 W + 504 W).
Medrea
Profile Joined May 2011
10003 Posts
October 04 2011 09:35 GMT
#12539
OK, im gonna digest that whole article another time when im not tired. I read the excerpt.

I understand it would just be easier to just shut up and read the label. But I'd rather be in a position where I can think for myself.
twitch.tv/medrea
jacosajh
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
2919 Posts
October 04 2011 09:39 GMT
#12540
There's a section in there that describes OCP and virtual rails as well.

I don't think it goes too in-depth, describing the inner workings of electricity inside a PSU, but kind of helps to get a good understand of how to read labels and such.
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