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When using this resource, please read FragKrag's opening post. The Tech Support forum regulars have helped create countless of desktop systems without any compensation. The least you can do is provide all of the information required for them to help you properly. |
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So I built my dad a computer on a super low budget (<$200) a couple months ago and they are reporting problems of the computer just randomly shutting off multiple times a day without restarting.
My initial thoughts were either a) overheating or b) faulty hardware. I'm assuming it's b now, because I'm now at my dads and the temperatures are very low. The CPU actually didn't come with a heatsink cooler, so I actually have an aftermarket cooler on that is keeping it at like 20ºC or so.
The power supply I used is some 500W brand I've never heard of that I got free from work, which was supposed to have been working. I've checked the windows event logs and it says something about Kernal Source, unexpected shutdown, etc, etc.
Any ideas where I should go from here? Is it worth just replacing the PSU blindly and hoping that's it? I can't really think of anything else that would be causing it; I did a clean install of Win 7 on putting it together, and I'm 99% sure my dad hasn't gotten some kind of crazy virus.
Specs are Athlon II x4 635 @ 2.9GHz MSI 880G something 4GB DDR3 (can't remember the brand name) ATi Radeon HD 4650 1GB Win 7 64-bit
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Take a very clear picture of the power supply label, or maybe just list everything it says about +12V/+5V/+3.3V and maybe the UL number. I'd suspect a freebie PSU to suck if it's some brand you've never heard of, but that's not necessarily the situation.
edit: if you can't really get all that info, it may just be worth blindly replacing the power supply, though it could be something else. Is the computer set to auto-reboot? What do system logs say?
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Hey power supply gurus. Is there a way to check your +12V voltages over time?
I just downloaded HWMonitor, and it provides me with min and max numbers. i've noticed my +12V rail has a min of 5. O.o
But I want to see if these are very temporary little spikes or if this is happening on a regular basis (I assume on a regular basis is uber bad). Is there a way to do this?
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I'm looking for a new stationary/desktop PC. ATM I'm not capable of building it myself, but maybe I'll look into that possibility. I incidentally found a PC that's already been set up, and seems reasonably cheap:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Windows 7 Home Premium Some other software (Ahead Nero and Cyberlink DVD Suite 7)
Intel LGA 1155 Core i5-2400 Kingston DDR3 1333 MHZ 4GB KIT CL9 Seagate Barracuda 7200.12 1 TB SATA3.0 EVGA GeForce GTX550Ti 1GB GDDR5 PCI-E MSI P67A-C45 B3, Socket-1155 Sony DVD RW AD-7260S-0B SATA, BLACK Silver Power SP-SS400 400W PSU Cooler Master Elite 430 Black
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- It's priced at 5400 NOK (almost exactly 1000$) and comes with a 2 year warranty. Are any of these components too good or too bad for the PC? Is some component missing (apart from monitor/speakers and other peripherals)? Does this look like a decent PC for my use, and is the price reasonable?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Q: Budget? A: $800-1000
Q: Resolution? A: I'm thinking 1280*1024, but I don't really have any solid preferences.
Q: Use? A: Primarily gaming. SC2 and WOW in the foreseeable future. Online poker. Some simple PDF-editing and video recording (planning to upload "let's plays" to youtube). Possibly some programming/small databases in the future.
Q: Upgrade Cycle? A: 3-5 years.
Q: When? A: Very soon.
Q: Overclocking? A: I doubt it.
Q: Need of a OS? A: Yes.
Q: SLI, Crossfire or Second GPU? A: I think not.
Q: Where are you buying your parts from? A: Norway. Probably komplett.no ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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with a non k cpu you only need an h61 not p67
the gtx550ti is bad, rather get an hd6850
dunno about that psu though
rest is ok
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On September 01 2011 04:15 corrosion wrote: I'm looking for a new stationary/desktop PC. ATM I'm not capable of building it myself, but maybe I'll look into that possibility. I incidentally found a PC that's already been set up, and seems reasonably cheap:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Windows 7 Home Premium Some other software (Ahead Nero and Cyberlink DVD Suite 7)
Intel LGA 1155 Core i5-2400 Kingston DDR3 1333 MHZ 4GB KIT CL9 Seagate Barracuda 7200.12 1 TB SATA3.0 EVGA GeForce GTX550Ti 1GB GDDR5 PCI-E MSI P67A-C45 B3, Socket-1155 Sony DVD RW AD-7260S-0B SATA, BLACK Silver Power SP-SS400 400W PSU Cooler Master Elite 430 Black
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- It's priced at 5400 NOK (almost exactly 1000$) and comes with a 2 year warranty. Are any of these components too good or too bad for the PC? Is some component missing (apart from monitor/speakers and other peripherals)? Does this look like a decent PC for my use, and is the price reasonable?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Q: Budget? A: $800-1000
Q: Resolution? A: I'm thinking 1280*1024, but I don't really have any solid preferences.
Q: Use? A: Primarily gaming. SC2 and WOW in the foreseeable future. Online poker. Some simple PDF-editing and video recording (planning to upload "let's plays" to youtube). Possibly some programming/small databases in the future.
Q: Upgrade Cycle? A: 3-5 years.
Q: When? A: Very soon.
Q: Overclocking? A: I doubt it.
Q: Need of a OS? A: Yes.
Q: SLI, Crossfire or Second GPU? A: I think not.
Q: Where are you buying your parts from? A: Norway. Probably komplett.no ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Prebuilt, it would cost around $600 without an operating system, around $700 with one (I say this because depends if you "need" to buy one, or if you can get it student discount). Although it's completely wasteful, giving you an overly expensive mobo for your processor and there are far better solutions to the GTX 550ti. If you were to build your own you probably wouldn't be getting that mobo (save around $50-70) nor that GPU (get a better one for $30-40 more). I guesstimated that board at around $130 and the GPU around $120 btw.
Note, these are the prices in the U.S. No idea in Norway.
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On September 01 2011 04:11 ensign_lee wrote: Hey power supply gurus. Is there a way to check your +12V voltages over time?
I just downloaded HWMonitor, and it provides me with min and max numbers. i've noticed my +12V rail has a min of 5. O.o
But I want to see if these are very temporary little spikes or if this is happening on a regular basis (I assume on a regular basis is uber bad). Is there a way to do this?
Given the 12v rail powers your CPU and your GPU, I'd rather assume if it was dropping to 5v, you'd be experiencing random shutdowns, lockups, or freezes of some variety. Like, the extremely annoying variety.
The +5v rail is directly above it, I assume you're not accidentally looking at readings for it?
Anyway, I don't think you can without expensive equipment, but it's almost certainly got to be a software problem.
Mind you, I'm no guru, but that one seems pretty obvious. Anyway, if the software is catching it, it should be a longer term thing. Quick google search seems to concur.
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On September 01 2011 01:19 kunstderfugue wrote:I'm probably going to build a new computer very soon but i have no idea what to use so i'll fill in the questionnaire: Q: Budget?A: $750 Q: Resolution?A: Most probably 1280x720 or sometimes 1024x768 Q: Use?A: Mostly Gaming. No need to stream, nor photoshop, nor video encoding. Q: Upgrade Cycle?A: Probably longer than 2 years. Q: When?A: About October this year. Q: Overclocking?A: Most probably no. Q: Need of a OS?A: Yes. Q: SLI, Crossfire or Second GPU?A: No. Q: Where are you buying your parts from?A: Tricky question: do stores like Newegg ship to Mexico? If not, i could get the components from a physical store, hopefully. Thanks to FragKrag for providing such a comprehensive guide to it, and to the people who suggest builds for us the computer illiterates  comback in octuber because new tecnologic comes every month. in september arrive amd fx processor
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On September 01 2011 04:28 JingleHell wrote:Show nested quote +On September 01 2011 04:11 ensign_lee wrote: Hey power supply gurus. Is there a way to check your +12V voltages over time?
I just downloaded HWMonitor, and it provides me with min and max numbers. i've noticed my +12V rail has a min of 5. O.o
But I want to see if these are very temporary little spikes or if this is happening on a regular basis (I assume on a regular basis is uber bad). Is there a way to do this? Given the 12v rail powers your CPU and your GPU, I'd rather assume if it was dropping to 5v, you'd be experiencing random shutdowns, lockups, or freezes of some variety. Like, the extremely annoying variety. The +5v rail is directly above it, I assume you're not accidentally looking at readings for it? Anyway, I don't think you can without expensive equipment, but it's almost certainly got to be a software problem. Mind you, I'm no guru, but that one seems pretty obvious. Anyway, if the software is catching it, it should be a longer term thing. Quick google search seems to concur.
Yeah, that's pretty much what I thought I would be experiencing, but...I'm not. So...guess I'll just chalk this one up to a software problem?
I guess I was just trying to convince myself to replace my (already working) Rosewill 1000W PSU with one of the Seasonic X ones, and that seemed interesting to me.
Perhaps I should go with the "If it isn't broke, don't touch it" approach? :D What do you think.
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I searched a little bit, and found nothing in the past couple months on it so: I'm at school and we have a wireless router, due to room placement and such I NEED to get a wireless card for my desktop. The router is capable of wireless n. Any suggestions on a wireless card that's not too overpriced?
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On September 01 2011 08:26 ensign_lee wrote:Show nested quote +On September 01 2011 04:28 JingleHell wrote:On September 01 2011 04:11 ensign_lee wrote: Hey power supply gurus. Is there a way to check your +12V voltages over time?
I just downloaded HWMonitor, and it provides me with min and max numbers. i've noticed my +12V rail has a min of 5. O.o
But I want to see if these are very temporary little spikes or if this is happening on a regular basis (I assume on a regular basis is uber bad). Is there a way to do this? Given the 12v rail powers your CPU and your GPU, I'd rather assume if it was dropping to 5v, you'd be experiencing random shutdowns, lockups, or freezes of some variety. Like, the extremely annoying variety. The +5v rail is directly above it, I assume you're not accidentally looking at readings for it? Anyway, I don't think you can without expensive equipment, but it's almost certainly got to be a software problem. Mind you, I'm no guru, but that one seems pretty obvious. Anyway, if the software is catching it, it should be a longer term thing. Quick google search seems to concur. Yeah, that's pretty much what I thought I would be experiencing, but...I'm not. So...guess I'll just chalk this one up to a software problem? I guess I was just trying to convince myself to replace my (already working) Rosewill 1000W PSU with one of the Seasonic X ones, and that seemed interesting to me. Perhaps I should go with the "If it isn't broke, don't touch it" approach? :D What do you think.
Unless there's a known reliability issue that comes with fried components for that PSU, yeah, that'd be my suggestion.
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On September 01 2011 01:46 FabledIntegral wrote:Show nested quote +On September 01 2011 01:19 kunstderfugue wrote:I'm probably going to build a new computer very soon but i have no idea what to use so i'll fill in the questionnaire: Q: Budget?A: $750 Q: Resolution?A: Most probably 1280x720 or sometimes 1024x768 Q: Use?A: Mostly Gaming. No need to stream, nor photoshop, nor video encoding. Q: Upgrade Cycle?A: Probably longer than 2 years. Q: When?A: About October this year. Q: Overclocking?A: Most probably no. Q: Need of a OS?A: Yes. Q: SLI, Crossfire or Second GPU?A: No. Q: Where are you buying your parts from?A: Tricky question: do stores like Newegg ship to Mexico? If not, i could get the components from a physical store, hopefully. Thanks to FragKrag for providing such a comprehensive guide to it, and to the people who suggest builds for us the computer illiterates  Do you plan on getting a better monitor anytime soon? Because you can get away with a really shitty graphics card and still play high/ultra on that resolution.
On September 01 2011 02:06 CharlieBrownsc wrote:Show nested quote +On September 01 2011 01:19 kunstderfugue wrote:I'm probably going to build a new computer very soon but i have no idea what to use so i'll fill in the questionnaire: Q: Budget?A: $750 Q: Resolution?A: Most probably 1280x720 or sometimes 1024x768 Q: Use?A: Mostly Gaming. No need to stream, nor photoshop, nor video encoding. Q: Upgrade Cycle?A: Probably longer than 2 years. Q: When?A: About October this year. Q: Overclocking?A: Most probably no. Q: Need of a OS?A: Yes. Q: SLI, Crossfire or Second GPU?A: No. Q: Where are you buying your parts from?A: Tricky question: do stores like Newegg ship to Mexico? If not, i could get the components from a physical store, hopefully. Thanks to FragKrag for providing such a comprehensive guide to it, and to the people who suggest builds for us the computer illiterates  A) You could max out 1280X1024 with about $400 dollars of computer, I'd reccommend spending about $550 on the computer and $200 on a 1920X1080 screen B) What kind of games are you planning on playing? If it's just SC2, then a pentium g850 would be fine, but if you're playing BF3, or anything other heavier game, I'd reccommend an i3-2100 (Both assuming you keep current screen.) If you keep your current screen, a gts450 would likely be enough video card for you, if you go with a bigger screen than a 6850, or a 460 (768mb) would be a good choice C) If you go with a better screen, you'd probably want an i5-2400
1) The only games i play at the moment that require any computer power are Starcraft 2, Minecraft and World of Tanks. 2) I'll probably get myself a new monitor, plus the need of a new case because my mother wants to keep this computer; so is 1920x1080 the real best choice? I don't usually take good graphics very importantly in my gaming experience and could very well go with 720p HD, but if that's suboptimal, i surely would buy a better monitor. 3) Since i have no idea when i will upgrade this build, i would want some overkill so that i could play newer games, disregarding graphics settings.
On September 01 2011 06:08 CuraOh wrote:Show nested quote +On September 01 2011 01:19 kunstderfugue wrote:I'm probably going to build a new computer very soon but i have no idea what to use so i'll fill in the questionnaire: Q: Budget?A: $750 Q: Resolution?A: Most probably 1280x720 or sometimes 1024x768 Q: Use?A: Mostly Gaming. No need to stream, nor photoshop, nor video encoding. Q: Upgrade Cycle?A: Probably longer than 2 years. Q: When?A: About October this year. Q: Overclocking?A: Most probably no. Q: Need of a OS?A: Yes. Q: SLI, Crossfire or Second GPU?A: No. Q: Where are you buying your parts from?A: Tricky question: do stores like Newegg ship to Mexico? If not, i could get the components from a physical store, hopefully. Thanks to FragKrag for providing such a comprehensive guide to it, and to the people who suggest builds for us the computer illiterates  comback in octuber because new tecnologic comes every month. in september arrive amd fx processor Ok, i will wait for newer stuff to arrive, but at least this consult made me clear about other decisions in this build ^^
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On September 01 2011 11:02 kunstderfugue wrote:Show nested quote +On September 01 2011 01:46 FabledIntegral wrote:On September 01 2011 01:19 kunstderfugue wrote:I'm probably going to build a new computer very soon but i have no idea what to use so i'll fill in the questionnaire: Q: Budget?A: $750 Q: Resolution?A: Most probably 1280x720 or sometimes 1024x768 Q: Use?A: Mostly Gaming. No need to stream, nor photoshop, nor video encoding. Q: Upgrade Cycle?A: Probably longer than 2 years. Q: When?A: About October this year. Q: Overclocking?A: Most probably no. Q: Need of a OS?A: Yes. Q: SLI, Crossfire or Second GPU?A: No. Q: Where are you buying your parts from?A: Tricky question: do stores like Newegg ship to Mexico? If not, i could get the components from a physical store, hopefully. Thanks to FragKrag for providing such a comprehensive guide to it, and to the people who suggest builds for us the computer illiterates  Do you plan on getting a better monitor anytime soon? Because you can get away with a really shitty graphics card and still play high/ultra on that resolution. Show nested quote +On September 01 2011 02:06 CharlieBrownsc wrote:On September 01 2011 01:19 kunstderfugue wrote:I'm probably going to build a new computer very soon but i have no idea what to use so i'll fill in the questionnaire: Q: Budget?A: $750 Q: Resolution?A: Most probably 1280x720 or sometimes 1024x768 Q: Use?A: Mostly Gaming. No need to stream, nor photoshop, nor video encoding. Q: Upgrade Cycle?A: Probably longer than 2 years. Q: When?A: About October this year. Q: Overclocking?A: Most probably no. Q: Need of a OS?A: Yes. Q: SLI, Crossfire or Second GPU?A: No. Q: Where are you buying your parts from?A: Tricky question: do stores like Newegg ship to Mexico? If not, i could get the components from a physical store, hopefully. Thanks to FragKrag for providing such a comprehensive guide to it, and to the people who suggest builds for us the computer illiterates  A) You could max out 1280X1024 with about $400 dollars of computer, I'd reccommend spending about $550 on the computer and $200 on a 1920X1080 screen B) What kind of games are you planning on playing? If it's just SC2, then a pentium g850 would be fine, but if you're playing BF3, or anything other heavier game, I'd reccommend an i3-2100 (Both assuming you keep current screen.) If you keep your current screen, a gts450 would likely be enough video card for you, if you go with a bigger screen than a 6850, or a 460 (768mb) would be a good choice C) If you go with a better screen, you'd probably want an i5-2400 1) The only games i play at the moment that require any computer power are Starcraft 2, Minecraft and World of Tanks. 2) I'll probably get myself a new monitor, plus the need of a new case because my mother wants to keep this computer; so is 1920x1080 the real best choice? I don't usually take good graphics very importantly in my gaming experience and could very well go with 720p HD, but if that's suboptimal, i surely would buy a better monitor. 3) Since i have no idea when i will upgrade this build, i would want some overkill so that i could play newer games, disregarding graphics settings. Show nested quote +On September 01 2011 06:08 CuraOh wrote:On September 01 2011 01:19 kunstderfugue wrote:I'm probably going to build a new computer very soon but i have no idea what to use so i'll fill in the questionnaire: Q: Budget?A: $750 Q: Resolution?A: Most probably 1280x720 or sometimes 1024x768 Q: Use?A: Mostly Gaming. No need to stream, nor photoshop, nor video encoding. Q: Upgrade Cycle?A: Probably longer than 2 years. Q: When?A: About October this year. Q: Overclocking?A: Most probably no. Q: Need of a OS?A: Yes. Q: SLI, Crossfire or Second GPU?A: No. Q: Where are you buying your parts from?A: Tricky question: do stores like Newegg ship to Mexico? If not, i could get the components from a physical store, hopefully. Thanks to FragKrag for providing such a comprehensive guide to it, and to the people who suggest builds for us the computer illiterates  comback in octuber because new tecnologic comes every month. in september arrive amd fx processor Ok, i will wait for newer stuff to arrive, but at least this consult made me clear about other decisions in this build ^^
Well don't make your mind up on your GPU until you decide what monitor you want, imo.
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What is your budget?
700-1000 US
What is your resolution?
1280 x 1024, although I probably will get a better moniter in the future.
What are you using it for?
Gaming - SC2, BF3, etc.
What is your upgrade cycle?
4-5 years
When do you plan on building it?
Black Friday
Do you plan on overclocking?
Not now.
Do you need an Operating System? Yes.
Do you plan to add a second GPU for SLI or Crossfire?
Don't need one or afford one.
Where are you buying your parts from?
Microcenter, Frys, and newegg depending on prices.
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On September 01 2011 08:26 ensign_lee wrote:Show nested quote +On September 01 2011 04:28 JingleHell wrote:On September 01 2011 04:11 ensign_lee wrote: Hey power supply gurus. Is there a way to check your +12V voltages over time?
I just downloaded HWMonitor, and it provides me with min and max numbers. i've noticed my +12V rail has a min of 5. O.o
But I want to see if these are very temporary little spikes or if this is happening on a regular basis (I assume on a regular basis is uber bad). Is there a way to do this? Given the 12v rail powers your CPU and your GPU, I'd rather assume if it was dropping to 5v, you'd be experiencing random shutdowns, lockups, or freezes of some variety. Like, the extremely annoying variety. The +5v rail is directly above it, I assume you're not accidentally looking at readings for it? Anyway, I don't think you can without expensive equipment, but it's almost certainly got to be a software problem. Mind you, I'm no guru, but that one seems pretty obvious. Anyway, if the software is catching it, it should be a longer term thing. Quick google search seems to concur. Yeah, that's pretty much what I thought I would be experiencing, but...I'm not. So...guess I'll just chalk this one up to a software problem? I guess I was just trying to convince myself to replace my (already working) Rosewill 1000W PSU with one of the Seasonic X ones, and that seemed interesting to me. Perhaps I should go with the "If it isn't broke, don't touch it" approach? :D What do you think.
I missed this earlier, but you should never believe what the software tells you about your voltages. The only way to really be sure is to grab some equipment worth a few hundred dollars at least (a reasonable oscilloscope of sufficient bandwidth). A $5 multimeter is good enough to tell you the average voltage with some ballpark estimate though. As alluded to earlier, if your +12V rail was actually going to +5V, the system would shut off. This kind of unexplained dip in the software is very common.
I'm guessing your Rosewill is the Bronze Series (RBR1000-M) and not the Lightning? Lightning is very good btw. I think the Bronze Series is the same platform as this Hiper M1000 so it should be similar:
http://www.jonnyguru.com/modules.php?name=NDReviews&op=Story&reid=132
i.e. not worth replacing, unless maybe it bothers you that you have a 1000W unit to power like 50-350W draw or whatever your system actually uses, and thus your idle power draw is significantly higher than it could be.
@aax5:
On Black Friday pricing you could grab like a i5-2400, H61/H67 motherboard, 8GB RAM, something in the HD 6870 - HD 6950 range, an SSD, a monitor, an OS, and all the rest inside that budget...not much else to say until then. For gaming it's unlikely you'll want AMD Bulldozer instead. Granted, you may as well wait until a later date when we actually know for sure so you don't have to listen to everybody like me speculating in the meantime.
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I want a computer that can run sc2 on ultra, my resolution is 1680 x 1050, cheaper as possible, my budget is around $700-800, thank you.
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On September 01 2011 13:41 -Strider- wrote: I want a computer that can run sc2 on ultra, my resolution is 1680 x 1050, cheaper as possible, my budget is around $700-800, thank you. please answer the question of the OP
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On September 01 2011 12:34 Myrmidon wrote:Show nested quote +On September 01 2011 08:26 ensign_lee wrote:On September 01 2011 04:28 JingleHell wrote:On September 01 2011 04:11 ensign_lee wrote: Hey power supply gurus. Is there a way to check your +12V voltages over time?
I just downloaded HWMonitor, and it provides me with min and max numbers. i've noticed my +12V rail has a min of 5. O.o
But I want to see if these are very temporary little spikes or if this is happening on a regular basis (I assume on a regular basis is uber bad). Is there a way to do this? Given the 12v rail powers your CPU and your GPU, I'd rather assume if it was dropping to 5v, you'd be experiencing random shutdowns, lockups, or freezes of some variety. Like, the extremely annoying variety. The +5v rail is directly above it, I assume you're not accidentally looking at readings for it? Anyway, I don't think you can without expensive equipment, but it's almost certainly got to be a software problem. Mind you, I'm no guru, but that one seems pretty obvious. Anyway, if the software is catching it, it should be a longer term thing. Quick google search seems to concur. Yeah, that's pretty much what I thought I would be experiencing, but...I'm not. So...guess I'll just chalk this one up to a software problem? I guess I was just trying to convince myself to replace my (already working) Rosewill 1000W PSU with one of the Seasonic X ones, and that seemed interesting to me. Perhaps I should go with the "If it isn't broke, don't touch it" approach? :D What do you think. I missed this earlier, but you should never believe what the software tells you about your voltages. The only way to really be sure is to grab some equipment worth a few hundred dollars at least (a reasonable oscilloscope of sufficient bandwidth). A $5 multimeter is good enough to tell you the average voltage with some ballpark estimate though. As alluded to earlier, if your +12V rail was actually going to +5V, the system would shut off. This kind of unexplained dip in the software is very common. I'm guessing your Rosewill is the Bronze Series (RBR1000-M) and not the Lightning? Lightning is very good btw. I think the Bronze Series is the same platform as this Hiper M1000 so it should be similar: http://www.jonnyguru.com/modules.php?name=NDReviews&op=Story&reid=132i.e. not worth replacing, unless maybe it bothers you that you have a 1000W unit to power like 50-350W draw or whatever your system actually uses, and thus your idle power draw is significantly higher than it could be. @aax5: On Black Friday pricing you could grab like a i5-2400, H61/H67 motherboard, 8GB RAM, something in the HD 6870 - HD 6950 range, an SSD, a monitor, an OS, and all the rest inside that budget...not much else to say until then. For gaming it's unlikely you'll want AMD Bulldozer instead. Granted, you may as well wait until a later date when we actually know for sure so you don't have to listen to everybody like me speculating in the meantime. don't forget cyber monday the online we are trying ot get rid of extra stock plz buy of shit day, without having to wait in a lane at 2 am while it's 30F outside
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