EPTComputer Build Resource Thread - Page 1532
| Forum Index > Tech Support |
When using this resource, please read FragKrag's opening post. The Tech Support forum regulars have helped create countless of desktop systems without any compensation. The least you can do is provide all of the information required for them to help you properly. | ||
|
Cyro
United Kingdom20343 Posts
| ||
|
Myrmidon
United States9452 Posts
You'd think that it would be enough to murderize the cooling on most desktop systems, not to mention laptops. I guess it'd just hit the TDP target and throttle itself? So maybe okay. Normal operation shouldn't be nonstop AVX2 instructions all day long. And if it were, then doing them at non-Turbo frequencies and thus non-Turbo voltage (prior to the boost) should be blazing fast anyway. | ||
|
Ropid
Germany3557 Posts
If you use IBT only for a few minutes, you could just ignore that it's running at over 100 C. The poor CPUs in notebooks seem to be tortured like that all the time, so it won't die... probably. Later, normal programs will use some AVX2 here and there, but not 100 % AVX(2?) like that Intel linpack library that IBT uses. It also won't run on all four cores, perhaps two for encoding a live stream or something. You can just safely ignore the up to 105 C you've seen in a short stress test. | ||
|
Alryk
United States2718 Posts
| ||
|
Myrmidon
United States9452 Posts
They test for all the weird corner cases to validate these systems. Heavy use of their new instruction set is not even a corner case (okay, IBT in particular may be), so why is it acting up so much? (maybe the answer: it's not, and that's intended behavior, for whatever reason). Maybe it's an indication that stock voltages are low and just constrained by TDP, or something like that. | ||
|
Ropid
Germany3557 Posts
| ||
|
S3ph
Germany76 Posts
This system has been worked out so far: CPU: i5-4670k --> 217,34 € boxed with stock cooler GFX: Gigabyte 7950 --> 278,24 € MoBo: Gigabyte GA-Z87-HD3 --> 105,98 € (shippment over 7 days!) ... thats why Gigabyte GA-Z87X-D3H --> 145,72 € PSU: Super Flower Golden Green PRO SF-450P14XE --> 65,44 € HSF: Thermalright HR-02 Macho Rev.A CPU cooler --> 36,05 € RAM: 2x4 Kit Corsair Vengeance --> 61,48 € Case: Fractal Design Define R4 Black Pearl --> 92,89 € SSD: Samsung 840 pro 128 GB --> 116,99 € HDD: Seagate Barracuda 7200.12 1TB SATA 3 --> 62,16 € Soft: Windows 7 Home Edition OEM --> 75,44 € (no Microsoft Support) 11xx-ish without monitors. All prices from hardwareversand.de What do you think about LG Electronics M2382D-PZ? http://www.chip.de/bestenlisten/Bestenliste-TFT-Monitore-22-Zoll--index/index/id/591/ http://www.chip.de/preisvergleich/195992/LG-Electronics-M2382D.html http://www.computeruniverse.net/products/90492340/lg-flatron-m2382d-pz.asp Price: 199 €. Or rather not and I should consider an other one? | ||
|
MisterFred
United States2033 Posts
http://www.computeruniverse.net/products/90463642/benq-gw2450hm.asp The BenQ isn't IPS, it's MVA which I'm told is pretty equivalent, perhaps a bit better. I don't think you'd be unhappy with either. | ||
|
Cyro
United Kingdom20343 Posts
I've been playing with bclk straps a bit, IVR input voltage but Digital IO, Analog IO and SA voltage seem to help a lot and play a big part in tuning vcore. This guy got 4.5ghz on 1.125vcore and i'm not there but i'l definately be able to edge closer than my first impressions for 4.5ghz vcore, with the other voltages in a better place ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/mm45QEn.png) No long tests cause i'm iterating fast edit: I'l sit on 4.5ghz 1:1 uncore 1.19vcore for a while because stability is so confusing. Hopefully there will be a guide or two soon, I don't like playing with settings i have never heard of before completely blindly or pestering more advanced people (who had haswell before release etc) for specific info | ||
|
mav451
United States1596 Posts
| ||
|
Billd
Canada210 Posts
This may be the wrong thread but I didn't really think my question warranted a new thread as it is a basic one. Over the past month or so I've been working on a PC build and actually have one finished. I was really excited. Unfortunately I've come to the conclusion that a desktop isn't a good option for me as a travel a lot. For whatever reason I thought I could make it work but it's not realistic. So, that brings me to laptops. I have one now but it's terrible. My laptop CPU knowledge is a lot less than desktop CPUs. I see on ibuypower that they are selling laptops with Haswell CPUs in them now (4700-4900 I think it is). These chips all have "turbo" to anywhere between 3.40ghz and 3.90ghz. My question is, how much play do you have with this turbo setting? Can it always be on? Does it only kick in when the processor needs it? Is this thing going to melt on my desk at 3.90ghz if I decide to stream? Is there a "best" laptop cooling pad? I'm going from a well thought out desktop build with a H220 cooler to a laptop. I'm very disappointed to say the least, haha. But I really need an upgrade. Thanks guys! | ||
|
Cyro
United Kingdom20343 Posts
On June 10 2013 10:04 mav451 wrote: What do you mean by 'stability is so confusing?' What's so different? IVR input voltage 2.2 vcore 1.22 will instafail at 4.5 for me IVR input voltage 1.9, some voltage bumps on digital/analog io voltage, vcore 1.165 will not only boot, but pass IBT There's so many rules i don't know yet. You can approach sandy/ivy OC pretty well with nothing but vcore and multiplier, maybe llc. Haswell you're looking at IVR input voltage, vcore, multiplier, uncore voltage, multiplier, more complex interaction with RAM, digital+analog io + system agent voltages and many of them seem to have rules and interactions, and i dont know, i have no idea what these voltage limits are, why/how they work, hell i didnt even know what they were set to by default (gigabyte bios only lets you control via +- offsets from a number it does not tell you) until somebody measured them with a multimeter for me, but you can aparantly shave 0.05+vcore from an overclock using them I see on ibuypower that they are selling laptops with Haswell CPUs in them now (4700-4900 I think it is). These chips all have "turbo" to anywhere between 3.40ghz and 3.90ghz. My question is, how much play do you have with this turbo setting? Can it always be on? Does it only kick in when the processor needs it? Is this thing going to melt on my desk at 3.90ghz if I decide to stream? Is there a "best" laptop cooling pad? A well cooled mobile won't throttle below the base speed when loaded with 8 threads on an i7 MQ CPU. It's doubtful you'd have turbo boost up at all with all cores loaded highly though; on i7 MQ cpu's the turbo's are mostly in place for when you are example loading 1-2 cores so temperature, power draw etc are not very high and the CPU can clock up. Laptop's are NOT built for extreme load scenario's - the majority of real world users do not try anything close to that, so they are built to be thinner, lighter and quieter instead. Some of the worse ones will throttle under heavy load, even non-synthetic | ||
|
Alryk
United States2718 Posts
On June 10 2013 10:34 Cyro wrote: IVR input voltage 2.2 vcore 1.22 will instafail at 4.5 for me IVR input voltage 1.9, some voltage bumps on digital/analog io voltage, vcore 1.165 will not only boot, but pass IBT There's so many rules i don't know yet. You can approach sandy/ivy OC pretty well with nothing but vcore and multiplier, maybe llc. Haswell you're looking at IVR input voltage, vcore, multiplier, uncore voltage, multiplier, more complex interaction with RAM, digital+analog io + system agent voltages and many of them seem to have rules and interactions, and i dont know, i have no idea what these voltage limits are, why/how they work, hell i didnt even know what they were set to by default (gigabyte bios only lets you control via +- offsets from a number it does not tell you) until somebody measured them with a multimeter for me, but you can aparantly shave 0.05+vcore from an overclock using them A well cooled mobile won't throttle below the base speed when loaded with 8 threads on an i7 MQ CPU. It's doubtful you'd have turbo boost up at all with all cores loaded highly though; on i7 MQ cpu's the turbo's are mostly in place for when you are example loading 1-2 cores so temperature, power draw etc are not very high and the CPU can clock up. Laptop's are NOT built for extreme load scenario's - the majority of real world users do not try anything close to that, so they are built to be thinner, lighter and quieter instead. Some of the worse ones will throttle under heavy load, even non-synthetic Interesting. What WAS the default for digital/analog? I might play with that. What are you at now? Testing 4.5? Also, are you testing with just Adia, or IBT as well? | ||
|
Billd
Canada210 Posts
A well cooled mobile won't throttle below the base speed when loaded with 8 threads on an i7 MQ CPU. It's doubtful you'd have turbo boost up at all with all cores loaded highly though; on i7 MQ cpu's the turbo's are mostly in place for when you are example loading 1-2 cores so temperature, power draw etc are not very high and the CPU can clock up. Laptop's are NOT built for extreme load scenario's - the majority of real world users do not try anything close to that, so they are built to be thinner, lighter and quieter instead. Some of the worse ones will throttle under heavy load, even non-synthetic Thanks for the quick and awesome response. I guess when I see the base speeds of these laptops I wonder what they are capable of. Pretty basic question then, do you think with proper cooling one of these could handle streaming SC2 at, say, 720p and 30fps? I've got good upload speeds. Edit: Worst quote formatting. Oh, and considering what you said about the boost and what I want to do, would it be worth the extra 150$ to go from the 4700 to the 4800 and gain the extra 300ghz at base and turbo? | ||
|
Cyro
United Kingdom20343 Posts
On June 10 2013 10:45 Alryk wrote: Interesting. What WAS the default for digital/analog? I might play with that. What are you at now? Testing 4.5? Also, are you testing with just Adia, or IBT as well? 4.5 1.19v, 1:1 uncore, RAM at 2000mhz cas10. I'm really not sure what to stress test with, and i'm pretty sure with AVX instructions enabled vcore has to be set a little bit higher for stability in synthetic tests, but if i do that the cpu's probably overvolting like crazy under the hood anyway. I'l download service pack 1, play with disable/enable avx, bench sc2 with and without, streaming 1920x1080 60fps 4 threads vs 8, bench sc2 with different uncore, 1600cas8 vs 1600cas12 vs 2400cas12 or something with RAM if my newbie skillz are good enough to do that, etc. I need an sc2 bench replay. This guy said defaults were "0.985 for VIOD 0.975 for VIOA 0.850 for VSA" and the 1.125vcore 4.5ghz guy used 2.22v IVR input voltage; 1.125v vcore 1.175v Uncore 1.215v Analog IO 1.200v Digtal IO 1.115v SA So it's a pretty wide gap. I'm hesitant to throw on the +0.2v's though, because i didn't know these voltages existed until a few hours ago and i cant kill a £275 ($427) CPU. | ||
|
Cyro
United Kingdom20343 Posts
On June 10 2013 10:48 Billd wrote: Thanks for the quick and awesome response. I guess when I see the base speeds of these laptops I wonder what they are capable of. Pretty basic question then, do you think with proper cooling one of these could handle streaming SC2 at, say, 720p and 30fps? I've got good upload speeds. Edit: Worst quote formatting. Oh, and considering what you said about the boost and what I want to do, would it be worth the extra 150$ to go from the 4700 to the 4800 and gain the extra 300ghz at base and turbo? Np, and i imagine they are capable of a lot nowadays. That kind of stream or even more high end no issues. The lowest end standard power haswell i7 MQ's are 2.4ghz. I can't see why they would not be leagues ahead of a stock i7 920 if you're not running into massive throttling $150 more, it's hard to say. It could give you perma +300mhz, or give you nothing. I'd probably do it if it's a good laptop model (not a poorly cooled one) for the higher turbo frequencies, specifically on lower core counts especially | ||
|
Kukaracha
France1954 Posts
So here is what I ended up with (following Rachnar's build as it was simpler for me to understand): CPU: Intel Core i3 3220 (3.3 GHz) 108,80 € MB: Asus P8B75-M LX 54,89 € RAM: Dual Channel DDR3 Corsair Value Select, 2 x 2 Go, PC3-10600, CAS 9 29,90 € GPU: Sapphire Radeon HD 7770 Ghz Edition, 1 Go 89,90 € SSD: Samsung Série 840, 120 Go, SATA III 89,90 € HDD: random guaranteed model, 640 Go 44,80 € Case: Bitfenix Merc Alpha, 439 x 190 x 490 mm 33,80 € Alim: Corsair CX430, 430 W 44,80 € Soft: Microsoft Windows 7 Home Premium SP1, Licence et support 1 PC, 64 bits, OEM 95,90 € Total: 592€ Rachnar posted the config above, with 4 Go of RAM, when SkyR proposed 8. Is 4 enough? I know that last time I worried about building a computer, 8 was considered too much, but is it preferable now? Also, am I not missing some things? And if I want that PC to be completely silent, would it be wise to add a fan? | ||
|
Billd
Canada210 Posts
On June 10 2013 11:05 Cyro wrote: Np, and i imagine they are capable of a lot nowadays. That kind of stream or even more high end no issues. The lowest end standard power haswell i7 MQ's are 2.4ghz. I can't see why they would not be leagues ahead of a stock i7 920 if you're not running into massive throttling $150 more, it's hard to say. It could give you perma +300mhz, or give you nothing. I'd probably do it if it's a good laptop model (not a poorly cooled one) for the higher turbo frequencies, specifically on lower core counts especially Thanks again. I'm actually looking at the notebooks on prostar and they offer a couple "upgrades" for cooling purposes. One being they use IC Diamond Thermal Compound instead of whatever their stock compound is for 35$ and the other being "Additional Copper Heatsink Apply to Stock Heatsink" for $79.00. No idea if either of these are worth it, haha. | ||
|
Alryk
United States2718 Posts
if it matters I have been getting problems every now and then with the UEFI, but I just attributed it to a new UEFI that wasn't totally fixed yet. edit: also I'm a noob but what is uncore? | ||
|
skyR
Canada13817 Posts
On June 10 2013 11:10 Kukaracha wrote:+ Show Spoiler + Thanks to Rachnar and SkyR for your answers. And thanks to everyone else for being awesome and helpful. So here is what I ended up with (following Rachnar's build as it was simpler for me to understand): CPU: Intel Core i3 3220 (3.3 GHz) 108,80 € MB: Asus P8B75-M LX 54,89 € RAM: Dual Channel DDR3 Corsair Value Select, 2 x 2 Go, PC3-10600, CAS 9 29,90 € GPU: Sapphire Radeon HD 7770 Ghz Edition, 1 Go 89,90 € SSD: Samsung Série 840, 120 Go, SATA III 89,90 € HDD: random guaranteed model, 640 Go 44,80 € Case: Bitfenix Merc Alpha, 439 x 190 x 490 mm 33,80 € Alim: Corsair CX430, 430 W 44,80 € Soft: Microsoft Windows 7 Home Premium SP1, Licence et support 1 PC, 64 bits, OEM 95,90 € Total: 592€ Rachnar posted the config above, with 4 Go of RAM, when SkyR proposed 8. Is 4 enough? I know that last time I worried about building a computer, 8 was considered too much, but is it preferable now? Also, am I not missing some things? And if I want that PC to be completely silent, would it be wise to add a fan? 8gb is standard these days, 4gb typically used if you're on a very tight budget. Rachnar's build focuses more on performance whereas mine focuses more on comfort. A Radeon HD 7770 is extremely unnecessary for playing Sims. The integrated graphics of the core i3 should be sufficient for the game. And if you don't find it sufficient then the graphics card is one of the easiest components to add-in / upgrade so it's no big deal. Whereas if you don't like the case or power supply then its a huge hassle to change them. If you want silent computing then you should get a silent case as I originally suggested like the Fractal Design Define Mini or Fractal Design Define R4. Investing in the case and other components rather than getting a graphics card is a significantly better idea as a case and power supply will not only be used for this build but as well as future builds. Lots of people also place a huge weight on aesthetics. You should probably consult your girlfriend as to what she likes or ask her friends for a general idea if you want to surprise her. The Define Mini and R4 aren't gorgeous though due to the stupid mesh on the side panel and top panel but I'd consider them to be much better than the Merc Alpha. I'm not sure when you're purchasing but the Corsair Carbide 330R is being released at the end of July and that's a gorgeous budget case. It's big brother is the Corsair Obsidian 550D which is already out. Just my opinion. You may also want to add an aftermarket heatsink as the Intel stock heatsink can get quite loud as it revs up. Though not absolutely necessary. You can always do this later if she finds the noise to be a problem. I'd strongly suggest a 250gb SSD as well over a 120gb SSD. I'm not sure how comfortable your girlfriend is with technology or her usage pattern but even if they are quite tech literate, they'd probably appreciate not having to constantly micro manage a 120gb SSD and HDD. | ||
| ||
