EPTComputer Build Resource Thread - Page 1434
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When using this resource, please read FragKrag's opening post. The Tech Support forum regulars have helped create countless of desktop systems without any compensation. The least you can do is provide all of the information required for them to help you properly. | ||
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anatase
France532 Posts
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GreenHorizons
United States23687 Posts
Is Nvidia's PhysX marketing just marketing? Planetside 2 recently added a PhysX patch and it looks AMAZING! My friends with AMD are quite jelly. As far as SC2 though, Myr is right on. | ||
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Rannasha
Netherlands2398 Posts
On March 27 2013 01:59 anatase wrote: I am not a specialist at all but 430W seems a bit weak for this rig. maybe 500W ? 430W is fine. Almost all single-GPU setups can be powered by a decent 430W PSU. | ||
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Ropid
Germany3557 Posts
On March 27 2013 00:57 DrAlWazzy wrote:+ Show Spoiler + First time computer build. Read a lot through this forum as well as several others and think I have a general idea of the components I want. I was looking to make a budget machine for around $600. It's really difficult to adhere to that limit being there is always a better choice for just a little bit more money. I am currently $150 over budget. I'm looking for feedback on the parts I've picked out as well as any ideas for cutting cost. Processor: Intel Core i5-3570K Ivy Bridge 3.4GHz (3.8GHz Turbo) LGA 1155 77W Quad-Core Desktop Processor Intel HD Graphics 4000 BX80637I53570K $219.99 Motherboard: ASRock Z77 Pro4 LGA 1155 Intel Z77 HDMI SATA 6Gb/s USB 3.0 ATX Intel Motherboard $104.99 GPU: ASUS GeForce GTX 660 GTX660-DC2O-2GD5 Video Card $219.99 Hard drive: http://us.ncix.com/products/?sku=58746&vpn=ST31000524AS&manufacture=Seagate&promoid=1293 Seagate Barracuda ST31000524AS 7200.12 1TB SATA 32MB Cache 3.5in Internal Hard Drive OEM $70.00 RAM: http://us.ncix.com/products/?sku=57953&vpn=F3-12800CL9D-8GBXL&manufacture=G.Skill&promoid=1293 G.SKILL Ripjaws X F3-12800CL9D-8GBXL 8GB 2X4GB DDR3-1600 CL9-9-9-24 Memory $55.99 Power Supply: CORSAIR Builder Series CX430 430W ATX12V v2.3 80 PLUS BRONZE Certified Active PFC Power Supply $44.99 Case: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811119227 COOLER MASTER Elite 430 RC-430-KWN1 Black Steel / Plastic Computer Case 39.99 Subtotal: $755.97 Thanks for any help. If you want to overclock, you forgot a cooler. That's another $30 or something. An i5-3570k runs at 3.6 to 3.8 GHz Turbo by default (usually 3.6, but some motherboards cheat for benchmarks and let it stay at 3.8 even if all cores are in use). It can absolutely go 4.2 GHz, perhaps up to 4.4 GHz with not much luck needed. 4.6 GHz would be pretty lucky. For the US, people usually suggest Coolermaster Hyper 212+ or Hyper 212 Evo as a solid cooler. You might want to look at buying one additional fan ($10) for the rear or top of your case, which would help with the temperature on your CPU while fiddling with the stability test programs for overclocking. It could actually be needed while the graphics card is heating up the case while gaming. The case you chose is very open, so the additional fan can probably be skipped. If you don't want to overclock, you can choose an i5-3570 (without the "k"). That CPU can also be set to 3.8 GHz despite being sold as 3.4 GHz. Look at the Turbo GHz of the CPUs when comparing to a hypothetical overclocked system. You can go down a little with the CPU. Look at an i5-3470, for example. Perhaps you'll find something that feels like a sweet spot regarding price and GHz. There's an i5-3350P (the "P" is not a typo), which is missing the integrated graphics. You can also go down with the price on the motherboard if not overclocking. There are cheaper Z77, and not overclocking opens up the other chipsets like H77 as options. I'm not sure you can go wrong by choosing the cheapest motherboard you can find. The memory and PCI controller and most of the USB and SATA ports are provided by Intel's chips, which are the same on all motherboards. There's nothing that can go terribly wrong with a cheap motherboard. You could also look at the prices for an mATX mobo and case instead of ATX. I don't know anything about what's up with AMD nowadays, but Intel is definitely much better for SC2's minimum FPS at late game. Even if you could make up the difference by overclocking an AMD CPU heavily, all price savings should be eaten up by having to choose a motherboard with quality parts and a big CPU cooler. Perhaps you can find a deal about a used or last generation graphics card somewhere. There's this list for comparing performance: http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/gaming-graphics-card-review,3107-7.html | ||
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Cyro
United Kingdom20326 Posts
4.6 GHz would be pretty lucky I disagree here i guess - maybe with a 212? Failing below 4.6ghz is pretty weird, i'd say 4.7-4.9 on reasonable voltage is lucky and some chips might need a lot of voltage to get to 4.5, 4.6 but i dont think they would outright fail unless you had limited cooling Even if you could make up the difference by overclocking an AMD CPU heavily The gap is something like 35-45% in favor of intel at stock (8350 vs 3570k) and bigger at max OC vs max OC, because in general you can overclock ivy bridge further and easier relative to stock and its max overclocks are further from stock + Show Spoiler +![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/zjO5IvH.png) I mean pretty funny, but you cant OC the 8350 really past 4.8-5.2ghz, while a good 3570k will do 4.8Everything Ropid said, but if< going with a z77 board for OC unless advised otherwise than avoid asrock, if nothing else the voltage issue adds unneccesary confusion Looking to cut budget further, i'd consider OC-ing 3570k with a gpu like the 7770 maybe, but you did not say what games you were playing so that might be a bad idea (7770 vs titan will be invisible in sc2 but many games benefit greatly from a 30% CPU overclock) If you're looking to budget, than a 2500k with appropriate motherboard and 7770 is good. Last gen CPU - slightly different overclocking, like 5% lower performance-but-not-really due to heat and overclocking potentials etc (it's only a really big deal if you are quite an extreme overclocker) - but you might be able to find significant cost savings with the 2500k instead of 3570k and the different motherboard chipset - and lower end GPU - but still adequate for many things - you can pretty much guarantee that such a system would wreck everything on lower graphics more than pretty much anything else, while running extreme on games like sc2 and higher graphics on many things completely fine, it can be quite a painful drop though - having only ~60% or whatever of the FPS of a 660 if something is entirely GPU bound. It depends how much you want to stick to your budget. | ||
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Gumbi
Ireland463 Posts
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Cyro
United Kingdom20326 Posts
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Gumbi
Ireland463 Posts
On March 27 2013 03:08 Cyro wrote: Well it depends, some CPU's will do 4.6ghz on below 1.2v (mine takes ~1.21 and it's an awesome cpu but not the best) but others will take 1.35-1.4 or something with the average being.. 1.28?, what temps and voltage do you have at 4.6 with the 212 and is it plus or evo version? My comp is out of action for the moment (mobo would you believe - z77 pro3 haha, getting it replaced within the week). I think it was about 1.25 v (just under, I believe) to have 4.6ghz stable. Of course we may have that voltage issue going on, but my temps are well under control (85 max after 20 runs of IBT at max preset). | ||
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Cyro
United Kingdom20326 Posts
z77 pro3 If you're using second highest level of llc (which you probably should be) then if the board has the issue you are probably around 1.3v and temps are pretty up there but still fine, i'd say you have to be at least a bit unlucky to not be able to do 4.6 with a decent cooler and i dont think i saw a CPU yet that couldnt do it if you feel like bruteforcing with higher (still safe because ivy) voltages and better cooling, though thats not a very attractive option if you lose silicon lottery, i just mean it's still an optionIf you are getting a different (non asrock z77) board you can compare voltages | ||
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Shikyo
Finland33997 Posts
I remember reading from multiple sources that the cooling doesn't affect ivybridge nearly as much. As in the difference between a 212+ and a NH-14D is like 0.1Ghz because of how gigantic the heat increase is after a certain voltage with Ivy Bridge. | ||
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Cyro
United Kingdom20326 Posts
On March 27 2013 04:13 Shikyo wrote: Hm. I remember reading from multiple sources that the cooling doesn't affect ivybridge nearly as much. As in the difference between a 212+ and a NH-14D is like 0.1Ghz because of how gigantic the heat increase is after a certain voltage with Ivy Bridge. Its pretty big, yea, but it depends on voltage scaling. My CPU can go from 4.6 to 4.8ghz with only about 0.07v for example, but others might hit voltage cliff and need more than twice as much voltage or more per 100mhz to pass 4.5 or 4.6 or just get entirely stuck so that you would need a crazy amount of voltage to increase speed at all, and cooling is not really too relevant to that, just the CPU's limits Belial has 5ghz 24/7 on 1.5v with max temp of ~85c with delidded cpu (over 20c temp drop) and nhd14 but for example you'd never get that on the 212 because delidded or not, a 0.2v gap will introduce a ton of heat and there are very real differences between these coolers (dont know exact numbers but 20c would not suprise me at all when comparing from temp limits) If you're talking about real world application, cpu-permitting the difference between 212 and nhd14 is probably 200-300mhz for standard use. If your CPU takes 1.4v for 4.5ghz you are screwed either way, if not, it's just a matter of increasing voltage to increase clock speeds (til 1.4v+) and it's all about temperatures | ||
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DrAlWazzy
12 Posts
Processor: http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819116782 Intel Core i5-3350P Ivy Bridge 3.1GHz (3.3GHz Turbo) LGA 1155 69W Quad-Core Desktop Processor BX80637i53350P $189.99 Motherboard: ASRock H77M LGA 1155 Intel H77 HDMI SATA 6Gb/s USB 3.0 Micro ATX Intel Motherboard $59.99 GPU: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814121630 ASUS ENGTX550 Ti/DI/1GD5 GeForce GTX 550 Ti (Fermi) 1GB 192-bit GDDR5 PCI Express 2.0 x16 HDCP Ready SLI Support Video Card $124.99 Thanks again. | ||
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Craton
United States17281 Posts
The process is basically: (From your BIOS/UEFI) 1.) Increase the CPU multiplier (default is 35). The base clock is 100 (you won't change this), so 35x100 = 3500Mhz, 36x100 = 3600Mhz, etc. If you're really nervous you can go 1 up each time, but early on you can jump a bit farther since these CPUs have a ton of headroom (e.g. start straight-away at 38-40, then go up 1 at a time). Write down your settings. 2.) Boot into windows and test stability / temperatures. This involves opening a temperature monitor (RealTemp is popular) and a stress tester (usually IntelBurnTest for quick stability tests, then running Prime95 for an extended period to verify stability). Both of these are very easy to use and only require a few clicks. I didn't use Prime95 until after I had gotten somewhat close to my max OC since IBT is reasonably sufficient for verifying lower overclocks. Once you get somewhere near where you think you want to stop at, that's when you want to do the lengthy Prime95 test, imo. 3.) While the stress test is running, watch your temps and stability. If temps are too high, reboot and lower things back down one notch, then do a long stability/temp test. If you pass, you're effectively done. These CPUs have built-in protection against overheating themselves and since you're only going 1 step at a time your temperatures won't jump a huge amount from one test to the next. I use 90C as my highest accepted max-load scenario (my CPU max stress temp is 89C, but under heavy high res streaming + gaming load is only ~61C). A BSOD / lockup during this process is not uncommon, especially at the higher clocks. That's the whole point of the test -- if it crashes, you need to change something to improve stability. No, it won't hurt anything. Write down your temps next to your previously recorded settings. 4.) If your temperatures are fine but your stability isn't, you can start increasing the voltage in increments of .005. After each step up, do the same stability / temperature tests in windows until it either it's stable or your temperatures are too high. You don't have to do this part if you don't want to; you can just stop at the highest OC you can get without touching the voltage, but this process isn't much harder than increasing the multiplier. There are a few other considerations to make, such as which LLC level to use for your board (ASRock boards usually use level 2 -- 2nd from highest -- iirc), but for a minor/moderate OC these aren't too important. The point here is that a nominal OC of a 3570K is really quite simple to do. | ||
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Cyro
United Kingdom20326 Posts
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Alejandrisha
United States6565 Posts
Antec Three Hundred Black Steel ATX Mid Tower Computer Case CORSAIR Builder Series CX600 600W ATX12V v2.3 80 PLUS BRONZE Certified Active PFC Power Supply CORSAIR XMS 4GB 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1333 Desktop Memory Model CMX4GX3M1A1333C9 ASUS P8B75-V LGA 1155 Intel B75 SATA 6Gb/s USB 3.0 ATX Intel Motherboard Intel Core i7-3770K Ivy Bridge 3.5GHz (3.9GHz Turbo) LGA 1155 77W Quad-Core Desktop Processor Intel HD Graphics 4000 BX80637I73770K **I also have a radeon sapphire HD7850 that I'd like to put in there Thanks! | ||
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Cyro
United Kingdom20326 Posts
You can also probably get better parts/deals on other things, why dont you fill out the form in OP and get some opinions here? | ||
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Alejandrisha
United States6565 Posts
On March 27 2013 07:13 Cyro wrote: You'll want a z77 board if you are trying to overclock or have the money/need to go 3770k over 3570k, i would also reccomend 8gb RAM (even belial who defended 4gb a ton is going to 8gb now..) especially since it's really cheap, and 1600mhz is good but it's not really a big difference at all, probably not noticable. You can also probably get better parts/deals on other things, why dont you fill out the form in OP and get some opinions here? OK I'll do that thank you ! What is your budget? Under 800 USD ( What is your resolution? 1360 x 768, but I use a laptop now. I will probably use 1440 x 900, though. What are you using it for? SC2, photoshop are the most demanding things I'll run, but I primarily want to stream SC2 as smoothly as possible What is your upgrade cycle? 2-3 years When do you plan on building it? within a week Do you plan on overclocking? no Do you need an Operating System? yes Do you plan to add a second GPU for SLI or Crossfire? no Where are you buying your parts from? newegg | ||
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Gumbi
Ireland463 Posts
On March 27 2013 07:13 Cyro wrote: You'll want a z77 board if you are trying to overclock or have the money/need to go 3770k over 3570k, i would also reccomend 8gb RAM (even belial who defended 4gb a ton is going to 8gb now..) especially since it's really cheap, and 1600mhz is good but it's not really a big difference at all, probably not noticable. You can also probably get better parts/deals on other things, why dont you fill out the form in OP and get some opinions here? To a certain extent I'm still not overly bothered with 4GB. I did recently upgrade to 8, but honestly, 've never been past 3.5 even. I am an efficient user (I don't have a millions tabs/background programmes and game at the same time), but still, having 4GB is only restrictive if you make it so. Having said that, it is fairly cheap (though it has gotten more expensive in the past few moneths, I paid 39 euro for Corsair Vengeance in January, it's 52 euro now in Europe). | ||
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Ropid
Germany3557 Posts
On March 27 2013 06:32 DrAlWazzy wrote: Upon further reflection, I don't think I am planning on overclocking this build. I don't know much about overclocking and wouldn't feel comfortable without extensive research. This is an updated version of my build that puts me back on budget. I really only play SC2 HOTS thus think the drop in GPU may be okay (thoughts?). Is there any issue with buying a CPU without integrated graphics? My understanding is that as long as I am buying a graphics card this should not affect performance. Processor: http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819116782 Intel Core i5-3350P Ivy Bridge 3.1GHz (3.3GHz Turbo) LGA 1155 69W Quad-Core Desktop Processor BX80637i53350P $189.99 Motherboard: ASRock H77M LGA 1155 Intel H77 HDMI SATA 6Gb/s USB 3.0 Micro ATX Intel Motherboard $59.99 GPU: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814121630 ASUS ENGTX550 Ti/DI/1GD5 GeForce GTX 550 Ti (Fermi) 1GB 192-bit GDDR5 PCI Express 2.0 x16 HDCP Ready SLI Support Video Card $124.99 Thanks again. I'd probably choose the i5-3470 for $10 more (it's $199.99 at newegg.ca which you used to link your 3350P price). Those $10 do a lot, I feel. The 3350P runs at most at 3.3 GHz, while it's 3.6 GHz for the 3470, though I don't know if it's possible to force it in the BIOS to keep it at 3.6 GHz. The 3470 also has integrated graphics, and you can never know when you might want or need to use it in a pinch, or perhaps when reusing parts in the future. I'd search around some more about the graphics card. The GTX 650 should be similar in performance and a little cheaper? And perhaps you can find something a little better like a 650Ti (or a 560 from the last generation) at the same price on a sale or something. | ||
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Cyro
United Kingdom20326 Posts
On March 27 2013 07:17 Alejandrisha wrote: + Show Spoiler + On March 27 2013 07:13 Cyro wrote: You'll want a z77 board if you are trying to overclock or have the money/need to go 3770k over 3570k, i would also reccomend 8gb RAM (even belial who defended 4gb a ton is going to 8gb now..) especially since it's really cheap, and 1600mhz is good but it's not really a big difference at all, probably not noticable. You can also probably get better parts/deals on other things, why dont you fill out the form in OP and get some opinions here? OK I'll do that thank you ! What is your budget? Under 800 USD (processor not included) What is your resolution? 1360 x 768, but I use a laptop now. I will probably use 1440 x 900, though. What are you using it for? SC2, photoshop are the most demanding things I'll run, but I primarily want to stream SC2 as smoothly as possible What is your upgrade cycle? 2-3 years When do you plan on building it? within a week Do you plan on overclocking? no Do you need an Operating System? yes Do you plan to add a second GPU for SLI or Crossfire? no Where are you buying your parts from? newegg SC2's performance is decided very much by the CPU - but it's based on single threaded performance, not multithreaded, which basically means adding more cores does not help performance and hyperthreading (the main difference between i5 and i7) does not help either. You're not going to gain anything from going from i5 3570 to i7 3770 in this case, at all really. Your framerates in game would be the same with both CPU's and the encoding power gained from hyperthreading is not really all too relevant for streaming ability - but the most important thing there is that it's only really a factor in what the viewer can see, not how the game feels for you. + Show Spoiler + If you take stock i5 and i7 and say for example the game is running at 100fps, but you lose 30% of your FPS from streaming - both would run the game at 70fps. The i7 might allow you to push stream FPS a little higher, lets just say 1920x1080, 35fps to 1920x1080, 45fps or something - but that will hurt game performance even more, so then you have basically: i5 or i7 running 35fps stream at 70fps ingame vs i7 running 45fps stream at 55-60fps ingame with noticable worse feel for you The 7850 will do whatever you want ingame, i mean any time FPS matters (mid to lategame battles) you will have almost identical FPS on max settings vs minimum, as long as physics and effects are the same on both settings (etc max with physics disabled low effects will have same fps as min graphics, physics disabled low effects) because the GPU can handle it and the game is so heavily CPU bottlenecked. Overclocking will help your FPS and performance (with or without streaming - running the game faster always helps) by a pretty big margin, 30% or more and is quite easy. An overclocked 3570k will have streaming limits at around 1920x1080, 45fps, pretty much any resolution below that 60fps quite easily. Anyone that says you can encode a 1920x1080@60fps stream with less than a moderately to high overclocked 3770k is bullshitting or does not know how to stress test, and it's impossible to keep framerates up that high (above 40-45 while capturing game to stream at 60fps) when streaming when it matters in order for it to make a difference, anyway. With the 3570k at stock, you are talking maybe 30fps minimums in 1v1 max battles - overclocked, 40. You can cut like 20-50% from that depending on stream settings and methods. An overclocked 3570k will also beat a 3770k at stock in every way. You didnt say resolution, fps you want to stream at (or bitrate you have available) so its hard to say if the "upgrade" from i5 3570k to i7 3770k would even be relevant or at all noticable for you, but il say almost certainly it wont for streaming/sc2 and for other tasks it's minor (20% gain in heavily multithreaded tasks) Sorry this is probably extremely confusing to read and taken twice as many words as it should have done. Performance particularly with streaming programs is incredibly complex and confusing and i could really use some references to learn more myself - but basically, 3570 at stock is good for the 1920x1080, 30fps or 1280x720, 60fps standards, 3770k most likely you would not notice it was there for most uses, it's like a 20% gain in multithreaded applications (not sure if photoshop falls into that) but an overclocked 3570k would be for example 10-30% better than it depending on application - with sc2 performance on the 30% end | ||
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